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Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

by Azathoth


I agree the most likely and thematically appropriate is basically what you suggest (taking the place with the intent to "do it for good, somehow, instead" and of course it's ultimately the same poo poo, different shoe-fillers) but what I want from all media I've ever seen that deals with capitalism and class struggle is for people to get out the guillotines, forcibly redistribute wealth, and all hold hands and kiss and then immediately work in harmony on all the various megaprojects we gotta do to somewhat undo the damage we done done already, and during the credits a special screeching frequency is played that fixes all of the problems irl.

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Capntastic
Jan 13, 2005

A dog begins eating a dusty old coil of rope but there's a nail in it.



Steve Yun posted:



Halloween plans sorted

Yo, PM me the file?

Professor Shark
May 22, 2012



If they actually do a second season I hope they avoid 456 going back into the game. If they do, I hope they make him into some random guy who gets killed in the first round and nobody learns his name or his backstory and we get a good new group of people.

Vagabong
Mar 2, 2019


I wish the series had ended on Gihun returning home to his dead mother. It was bleak, but felt like a great thematic capstone to the series. Everything after that either felt like it undermined that killer moment or was just there to set up the second season. The twist about the old man didn't really do much to make me re-evaluate previous events, and in a lot of ways undermined the emotional impact of the marble episode, which was probably the strongest episode of the series.

etalian
Mar 20, 2006



Vagabong posted:

I wish the series had ended on Gihun returning home to his dead mother. It was bleak, but felt like a great thematic capstone to the series. Everything after that either felt like it undermined that killer moment or was just there to set up the second season. The twist about the old man didn't really do much to make me re-evaluate previous events, and in a lot of ways undermined the emotional impact of the marble episode, which was probably the strongest episode of the series.

Yeah it's one of the series in which the whole denouement and setup for inevitable next season was pretty unsatisfying.

Dr Kool-AIDS
Mar 26, 2004



I think a good twist for season 2 might be if they went ahead and just gave us another game with some minor differences and then toward the middle or end we find out Gi-hun is already Front Man now and we skipped past what we thought would be the plotline going forward. They could try to fill in some detail if they wanted, but honestly since I think them not just killing him will be pretty absurd to start with, maybe the less detail the better.

Gi-hun's obviously really loving morally opposed to the game right now, but he's still the same person who decided to re-enter the game after finding out they were massacring people, so I feel like one way they could change his mind would be to allow him to do what he might wish they'd done for him--take care of the family left behind. When he does start spending his blood money, that's clearly what's on his mind as he belatedly takes care of the orphan brother and his buddy's mom, and driving home that his own mom wouldn't have had to die if someone like him had been in charge and willing to step in to help (which he can do as long as he ensures the game continues) might motivate him. To address the subtext, it's a little like a welfare system that allows dramatic inequality to remain, where some relatively small amount is set aside for the immediate needs of every entrant, but the majority is still pooled for the ultimate winner.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002


Gorman Thomas posted:

I'll take this politics poo poo to cspam.
I'm of the mind that you can't discuss art without discussing politics.

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Soiled Meat

Vagabong posted:

I wish the series had ended on Gihun returning home to his dead mother. It was bleak, but felt like a great thematic capstone to the series. Everything after that either felt like it undermined that killer moment or was just there to set up the second season. The twist about the old man didn't really do much to make me re-evaluate previous events, and in a lot of ways undermined the emotional impact of the marble episode, which was probably the strongest episode of the series.

I disagree the revelations we got about the old man made him into an unimaginably disgusting rich man, and adds a new, interesting dimension to everything that he did in the show up to that point. The fact that he, as a rich man, can play these games for fun when they are life and death for everyone else is interesting. The fact that he played these games at a huge advantage. The fact that when his life was in danger (the riot) he was able to call his minions to break up the fight.

And the most disgusting thing is that during his marbles showdown with Gihun, he acted as if he had a moral high ground. He scolds Gihun for cheating at the game. He loving scolds Gihun for cheating at the game! Gihun was trying to save his life, where is the old man was manipulating the games and could opt out whenever he felt like it! Even Sangwoo betraying Ali is less disgusting because Sangwoo was at least trying to save himself from dying, whereas the old man was just having fun and games with life and death

Incredible villainy

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Oct 5, 2021

Dr Kool-AIDS
Mar 26, 2004



Steve Yun posted:

And the most disgusting thing is that during his marbles showdown with Gihun, he acted as if he had a moral high ground. He scolds Gihun for cheating at the game. He loving scolds Gihun for cheating at the game! Gihun was trying to save his life, where is the old man was manipulating the games and could opt out whenever he felt like it! Even Sangwoo betraying Ali is less disgusting because Seung-woo was at least trying to save himself from dying, whereas the old man was just having fun and games with life and death

Even before the reveal at the end I thought that was all pretty weird. While it was happening I was pretty sure the dementia routine was fake, but I didn't understand why he wasn't just making it easy on Gi-hun from the start, but making him degrade himself and then making him feel bad about it after the fact. It felt weirdly sadistic, and then the end reveal made it make sense, so that was pretty satisfying.

The thing that makes the least sense about the reveal is that the old guy still very much put his life at risk in the tug of war game, unless we're to believe they would have just dangled there without the rope being cut until the soldiers could save him (and maybe kill everyone else/end the game since it would all be a clear sham at that point. Yeah, he provided them with some tips to make up for their disadvantage somewhat, but they still would have lost without the last minute step forward plan. That said, maybe he actually was willing to accept some risk and felt that it would be pointless to be totally safe, but was managing the risk so that was the only time he was really in any danger, idk.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

That screeching witch doesn't make it easy to keep watching. At least in the English dub. Hope she dies rather sooner than later.

Dr Kool-AIDS
Mar 26, 2004



Any takes on Skyler White you'd like to share?

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

--edit: nevermind

Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Oct 4, 2021

Adder Moray
Nov 18, 2010


Khanstant posted:

Ddakji question: Is it just a hard game of chance to win, or is there a major factor in the construction of the squares to make some of them much more effective than others? I guess what I'm wondering is if the smug ddakji man was rigging the games subtly making the squares shittier, or if he just got really skilled at it because it's what he does all day for a living.

Maximize the surface area of your square hitting your opponent's square. The way I see it, he was playing for real until Gi-hun managed to win one and then throttled back so he got enough money to be enticed.

Shneak
Mar 6, 2015

A sad Professor Plum
sitting on a toilet.


This was a fun show for the first six episodes and then gets unbearable as soon as the English VIPs show up. I get the voyeurism theme but they just took me out of it. It didn't really stick the landing either. drat Gi-hun, go be a good dad for a second.

I still don't understand the squid game's (the actual children's game) rules despite it being explained twice but I would've picked umbrella so I would've died anyway.

iamsosmrt
Jun 14, 2008



Adder Moray posted:

Maximize the surface area of your square hitting your opponent's square. The way I see it, he was playing for real until Gi-hun managed to win one and then throttled back so he got enough money to be enticed.

I was half expecting this man to either be the Front Man and/or the cop's brother as the wasn't any real mystery to the mask otherwise. Yeah I'm still a bit disappointed it turned out to be a face we never saw before, even if it was the brother

Oh yeah, the fifth game, I was kind of annoyed that no one tried anything like tapping or throwing poo poo on the glasses until near the end with the glass worker. It was to the point where I assumed maybe they weren't allowed to but that wasn't the case. But yeah i would at least expect people to try everything they can before being forced to take a leap of faith. Swing a jacket or something ya know? Literally nothing to lose and everything to gain at that point

Dessel
Feb 21, 2011



Shneak posted:

This was a fun show for the first six episodes and then gets unbearable as soon as the English VIPs show up. I get the voyeurism theme but they just took me out of it. It didn't really stick the landing either. drat Gi-hun, go be a good dad for a second.

I still don't understand the squid game's (the actual children's game) rules despite it being explained twice but I would've picked umbrella so I would've died anyway.

Oh yeah the English-speaking VIPs are like some actual bad anime dub quality overacting to stereotypes and I'm not sure if it's bad casting (lol just get someone who speaks English), directing, intentional or what

magiccarpet
Jan 3, 2005






10 eps of Enders Game when

Vagabong
Mar 2, 2019


iamsosmrt posted:

Oh yeah, the fifth game, I was kind of annoyed that no one tried anything like tapping or throwing poo poo on the glasses until near the end with the glass worker. It was to the point where I assumed maybe they weren't allowed to but that wasn't the case. But yeah i would at least expect people to try everything they can before being forced to take a leap of faith. Swing a jacket or something ya know? Literally nothing to lose and everything to gain at that point

They made such a big deal out of everyone taking off their shoes and making a big pile of them I was surprised they never came into play really. The fifth game felt like the weakest really; it's hard to build tension when out of the 16 contestants, the three protagonists are in the safest postion, leaving you with 2 antagonists and 11 red shirts in the firing line.

Elite
Oct 30, 2010


Couple of thoughts.

Overall I thought it was pretty alright. I thought it did a good job at being kinda unpredictable (aborting then restarting the game really wasn't something I saw coming for example), thought it was a bit slow at the beginning, thought some of the characters were a bit on the annoying side but I'm a sucker for death games so overall I thought it was worth watching.

I thought the games were.. a bit disappointing? I guess you can say that the contrast between really simple kids games and high stakes was part of the point of the show, but I just like it when the games have some depth to them and most of them were too simple for my liking. With the tug-of-war game you yourself can think about the best strategy is, with a lot of the other ones it's mostly "just be better at this particular physical challenge" or being lucky.

I thought the organ sub-plot was kinda pointless and didn't really make sense. The theme of the show is about people willingly participating in a death game, because the rewards are so huge that they justify putting their lives on the line. Well the role of the guards isn't risk free either, quite a few of them die over the course of the show, and it's unpleasant work anyway (disposing of HUNDREDS of bodies, or even directly killing people) so presumably the pay must be really good for being a guard. The extra risks of running a secret corrupt operation during a death game are huge and it's hard to imagine organs are worth THAT much. Especially compared to the prize pool of the game being like 4.5 billion won, seems like if you wanted to try to get extra money then trying to steal the prize money or rob the winner or support a player to win would all have a much higher payoff or even trying to seize the whole operation (must be worth hundreds of billions of won) or the funders. They have some outside supporters they deliver the organs to, so firstly that means the organ money is split even more ways and also means they have some way to call in outside help to try to rob the place. They end up having to work with a player anyway because they don't have anyone able to harvest organs - how were they doing this operation in other instances of the game? Why would the doctor participate unless he's hoping on winning, in which case the money from his cut of the organ harvesting probably isn't very consequential? And they have secret routes through the base and a secret chute from the incinerator to a secret morgue? How did they set that up? (Okay there's an escape route for VIPs, still a question of how they came across it). And really what did the organ harvesting add to the show? They could've just had a corrupt group of guards trying to support a player to win and that would've made more sense IMO, both narratively and thematically.

Also thought the cop sub-plot.. didn't really feel like it went anywhere either. Unless maybe there's a payoff in S2.

About the ending: Gi-hun not getting on the plane and instead trying to participate again(?) just seems insanely dumb. Obv it's a sequel hook but as a character what is he even trying to accomplish there? He's not a credible threat to the game. It's not like he has anyone he really needs to avenge. Sangwoo was a dick, and killed himself when he could've survived the game anyway. Il-Nam survived and was secretly in on the whole thing. Sae-byeok was killed by Sangwoo not the game. His mother's death had nothing to do with the game. I guess Ali was killed by the rules of the game, so that's like one guy and Gi-hun sorta seemed to blame Sangwoo for that anyway. Obv Gi-hun has some huge survivor's guilt stuff going on, but kinda seems like he has more to live for after the game than before hand.

About Ali: I thought he was a likeable character up UNTIL the marble game. If you were in a death game then Ali would be 100% the best person to team up with because he's strong as gently caress, reliable + loyal and amicable + stable. Even in a game that isn't about physical strength he would still be a good partner, simply because he can keep his cool and doesn't try pointless betrayals (contrast with Sungwoo who does). But then we get to the marble game and suddenly he acts like a complete moron and dies because of it. Prior to that game he was trusting and easy to win over, but it's really just the marble game where he acts distinctly self-sabotagingly dumb. Kinda seems like they made him act dumb to make Sungwoo seem smarter in comparison without his plan actually being very impressive. I thought it was a disappointing shift in characterisation for a character I had previously liked.

About the old dude: He definitely put his life on the line for the games. After the 2nd game he says he would've died if he hadn't copied Gi-Hun's licking trick, which also presumably means that he didn't know ahead of time what the games were. He also definitely would've died in the tug of war game had they lost. And he was also very vulnerable to getting murdered in the dorms. Yes he was able to opt out during the marble game to, but he won that game then let GiHun win in order to save his life so the old dude being able to survive that game doesn't feel unfair. Not saying he's a good person, but at least he's willing to risk his life in the same way as the contestants. Unlike the other VIPs who are just unambiguously bad people.

Comparison with Hunger Games: Saw someone bring up Hunger Games earlier in the thread and I have to say I really didn't like Hunger Games. I think most death game (or debt game) stories work because they're a twisted reflection of society. In Squid Game the games are brutal and arbitrary, but they're arguably people's best bet to claw themselves out of the holes they're stuck in hence why people willingly participate. Other stories can have cruel games that are arguably fairer than the real world, or harsh stakes that functionally resemble what happens in the real world anyway.

Hunger Games in comparison made literally 0 sense to me. That world makes no sense and it's comments on society really don't ring true for me. In real life the inequalities of the world stem more from selfishness and indifference to other people's suffering (and finding various contortions to justify this), rather than a deliberate wanton desire to inflict cruelty upon people for sport. Like I said I'm a sucker for death game / debt game / battle royale stuff but I really didn't like the first Hunger Games movie and saw no reason to give the series further chances.

Dr Kool-AIDS
Mar 26, 2004



Elite posted:

About Ali: I thought he was a likeable character up UNTIL the marble game. If you were in a death game then Ali would be 100% the best person to team up with because he's strong as gently caress, reliable + loyal and amicable + stable. Even in a game that isn't about physical strength he would still be a good partner, simply because he can keep his cool and doesn't try pointless betrayals (contrast with Sungwoo who does). But then we get to the marble game and suddenly he acts like a complete moron and dies because of it. Prior to that game he was trusting and easy to win over, but it's really just the marble game where he acts distinctly self-sabotagingly dumb. Kinda seems like they made him act dumb to make Sungwoo seem smarter in comparison without his plan actually being very impressive. I thought it was a disappointing shift in characterisation for a character I had previously liked.

That bugged me a lot too. I tried to justify it a little bit based on him just being so fundamentally opposed to killing someone he knew and liked that any offered solution that got him out of that, no matter how implausible, is just what he winded up grasping for, but I think he was really just presented as massively intellectually disabled, which was a bummer.

As for the doctor, his motivation was getting early information on the games they'd be playing, which in a life or death situation mattered a lot more than money. I did think the organ harvesting thing was a bit over the top/had too many people involved, but the reveal that Front Man knew/didn't care until it affected the game helped, since it was super implausible that something that big wouldn't be noticed.

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Soiled Meat

Vagabong posted:

They made such a big deal out of everyone taking off their shoes and making a big pile of them I was surprised they never came into play really. The fifth game felt like the weakest really; it's hard to build tension when out of the 16 contestants, the three protagonists are in the safest postion, leaving you with 2 antagonists and 11 red shirts in the firing line.

It was so nobody would throw shoes to test the glass and soft clothing probably wouldn’t be helpful in that regard

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Soiled Meat

If the old man could peace out in the marble game, he probably had other ways of skipping out on the other games that we didn’t see

iamsosmrt
Jun 14, 2008



Steve Yun posted:

It was so nobody would throw shoes to test the glass and soft clothing probably wouldn’t be helpful in that regard

There would've been ways they could've folded/rolled up their clothing to add solid heft for measuring impacts to the glass. It would've at least been worth the try anyway. Heck, all they did was take off their shoes, they theoretically could've tossed them from the beginning platform (again, they were never told they couldn't do this) so yeah, it's whatever at this point.

The show doesn't stand up to a ton of scrutiny. I'm glad someone else brought up the organ subplot because it was a bit WTF to me in general for the same reasons. Just a strange idea in the context of everything happening and made no sense as far as the risk/rewards involved. That it was tied to the unsatisfying cop plot only made it worse.

Other dumb things were like the cop as 029 being called out by a superior who goes looking for him later, but completely drops it after not finding him despite the fact that it's an extremely suspicious loose end. I mean, 029 literally just goes back to the same dorm room afterwards, they couldn't just follow up then? Honestly, I wish the cop and the organ poo poo was removed altogether because they were the laziest parts of the series and didn't contribute much of good value to the experience.

iamsosmrt fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Oct 5, 2021

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.


iamsosmrt posted:

Other dumb things were like the cop as 029 being called out by a superior who goes looking for him later, but completely drops it after not finding him despite the fact that it's an extremely suspicious loose end. I mean, 029 literally just goes back to the same dorm room afterwards, they couldn't just follow up then? Honestly, I wish the cop and the organ poo poo was removed altogether because they were the laziest parts of the series and didn't contribute much of good value to the experience.

Do you mean the superior who gets killed off by the Frontman?

Elite posted:

I thought the games were.. a bit disappointing? I guess you can say that the contrast between really simple kids games and high stakes was part of the point of the show, but I just like it when the games have some depth to them and most of them were too simple for my liking. With the tug-of-war game you yourself can think about the best strategy is, with a lot of the other ones it's mostly "just be better at this particular physical challenge" or being lucky.

That's the entire point of the show. The game's mirror capitalism, in which they pretend to be fair, but really luck and background play more of a factor than anything.

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Soiled Meat

iamsosmrt posted:

There would've been ways they could've folded/rolled up their clothing to add solid heft for measuring impacts to the glass. It would've at least been worth the try anyway. Heck, all they did was take off their shoes, they theoretically could've tossed them from the beginning platform (again, they were never told they couldn't do this) so yeah, it's whatever at this point.

This is some Tactical Realism armchair quarterbacking. It’s normal for people to blank out and have trouble conceiving of novel options when they’re at death’s doorstep.

Most people don’t even know there’s a difference between regular and tempered glass, and even if they knew they wouldn’t know what the difference was. This even gets addressed in the show with the guy who thinks he knows the difference but doesn’t.

And what are bundles of clothes and shoes going to illuminate? Is a jacket going to sound like whump on regular glass and whump on tempered glass? Even the glass expert had trouble remembering if the marble sound on the glass was the sound of tempered glass or regular glass. A rubber shoe isn’t going to sound like anything he’s ever tapped against glass before. One glass sounds like bung and the other glass sounds like bong


quote:

The show doesn't stand up to a ton of scrutiny. [Spoiler] I'm glad someone else brought up the organ subplot because it was a bit WTF to me in general for the same reasons. Just a strange idea in the context of everything happening and made no sense as far as the risk/rewards involved. That it was tied to the unsatisfying cop plot only made it worse.

Other dumb things were like the cop as 029 [spoiler]being called out by a superior who goes looking for him later, but completely drops it after not finding him despite the fact that it's an extremely suspicious loose end. I mean, 029 literally just goes back to the same dorm room afterwards, they couldn't just follow up then? Honestly, I wish the cop and the organ poo poo was removed altogether because they were the laziest parts of the series and didn't contribute much of good value to the experience.


The organ subplot is important in the same way Nedry is important in Jurassic Park. He felt he wasn’t getting paid enough and using Capitalistic instincts he found a way to make more money by compromising the security and stealing stuff from work to sell to the outside, which allowed everything to fall apart

Talorat
Sep 18, 2007

Hahaha! Aw come on, I can't tell you everything right away! That would make for a boring story, don't you think?


Steve Yun posted:



Halloween plans sorted

I would also like this file, if you are willing to share!

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011



Elite posted:

Comparison with Hunger Games: Saw someone bring up Hunger Games earlier in the thread and I have to say I really didn't like Hunger Games. I think most death game (or debt game) stories work because they're a twisted reflection of society. In Squid Game the games are brutal and arbitrary, but they're arguably people's best bet to claw themselves out of the holes they're stuck in hence why people willingly participate. Other stories can have cruel games that are arguably fairer than the real world, or harsh stakes that functionally resemble what happens in the real world anyway.

Hunger Games in comparison made literally 0 sense to me. That world makes no sense and it's comments on society really don't ring true for me. In real life the inequalities of the world stem more from selfishness and indifference to other people's suffering (and finding various contortions to justify this), rather than a deliberate wanton desire to inflict cruelty upon people for sport. Like I said I'm a sucker for death game / debt game / battle royale stuff but I really didn't like the first Hunger Games movie and saw no reason to give the series further chances.

I made that comparison simply to establish that mainstream western audiences, knowingly or not, already have a thirst for death-game stories. Thematically it is of course a complete wash and I didn't like that particular YA-franchises take on it either. Death-game stories thematic edge have always been how they tie to real-life sentiments about the downtrodden of society.

Dolphin
Dec 5, 2008

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


I'm halfway through and avoiding all the spoilers but in regard to episode 6
As stated the rules only required you to take your opponent's ten marbles, not to possess all the marbles. Through the entire episode I expected certain contestants to realize they could simply trade each other's bags and both win the game but that angle was never addressed which was annoying. It could have made the old man young man pair more tragic, the young girls/husband and wife sweeter, and Ali/Sang Woo more infuriating.

If the rules were more clearly stated this wouldn't be an issue but having that very obvious loophole kinda ruined the episode for me.

Donnerberg
Dec 15, 2008



Hell Gem

Dessel posted:

Oh yeah the English-speaking VIPs are like some actual bad anime dub quality overacting to stereotypes and I'm not sure if it's bad casting (lol just get someone who speaks English), directing, intentional or what

English-speakers in non-English productions are often directed to pronounce words slowly and clearly for the benefit of the domestic audience. Like one would in a theater performance where being heard in the whole room is an issue.

So, they'll have an unnatural speech pattern, which could be further compounded by the director not recognizing if it's too over the top.

AnonSpore
Jan 19, 2012

"I didn't see the part where he develops as a character so I guess he never developed as a character"

Sinteres posted:

That bugged me a lot too. I tried to justify it a little bit based on him just being so fundamentally opposed to killing someone he knew and liked that any offered solution that got him out of that, no matter how implausible, is just what he winded up grasping for, but I think he was really just presented as massively intellectually disabled, which was a bummer.

As for the doctor, his motivation was getting early information on the games they'd be playing, which in a life or death situation mattered a lot more than money. I did think the organ harvesting thing was a bit over the top/had too many people involved, but the reveal that Front Man knew/didn't care until it affected the game helped, since it was super implausible that something that big wouldn't be noticed.

I read it as being about desperation. Ali genuinely did not want to kill Sang-woo, so he immediately grasped at the first option that was presented to him that might let him avoid that. It's like how otherwise smart and rational people will swear up and down that their highly educated doctor MUST be wrong when they get a bad diagnosis. It's not about intelligence, it's about grasping for straws to avoid a worst-case scenario.

punk rebel ecks
Dec 11, 2010

A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.


AnonSpore posted:

I read it as being about desperation. Ali genuinely did not want to kill Sang-woo, so he immediately grasped at the first option that was presented to him that might let him avoid that. It's like how otherwise smart and rational people will swear up and down that their highly educated doctor MUST be wrong when they get a bad diagnosis. It's not about intelligence, it's about grasping for straws to avoid a worst-case scenario.

This. Ali wasn't dumb, he just really REALLY wanted to believe that there was a way for him to win without Sang-woo losing.

Dolphin posted:

I'm halfway through and avoiding all the spoilers but in regard to episode 6
As stated the rules only required you to take your opponent's ten marbles, not to possess all the marbles. Through the entire episode I expected certain contestants to realize they could simply trade each other's bags and both win the game but that angle was never addressed which was annoying. It could have made the old man young man pair more tragic, the young girls/husband and wife sweeter, and Ali/Sang Woo more infuriating.

If the rules were more clearly stated this wouldn't be an issue but having that very obvious loophole kinda ruined the episode for me.

Yes, this really bugged me too. There should have been one group to figure it out.

Mirello
Jan 29, 2006
The Nameless One


lemme go against the grain and say I thought the show was dogshit. good couple of first eps, but the plot is poo poo and the games are unfair + luck so not really fun either. the ending is one of the worst I've seen as well. My wife and I predicted literally every twist. the sin of the games basically just being luck kills the entire shows concept for me. they were always extremely unclear about the rules, what was allowed/not allowed. pretty shocked how popular this is but I'm sure it'll fade away soon.

if you enjoyed this kind of concept and would like to see it done better (imo) a prime example is the anime: Kaiji sole survivor. Another good one is the j-drama Liar Game. There's many other examples, since death game was a pretty popular manga genre for a while. I feel bad for the writers who made much more sensical games and compelling dramas than this but this one popped off.

edit: the perfect example is the trading marbles thing that the people above me mentioned. it seemed obvious that was the way it should've gone as described by the rules, but it didn't because it was more "dramatic". and I guess that worked because everyone says 6 is sooooo great.

grate deceiver
Jul 10, 2009

Just a funny av. Not a redtext or an own ok.


Mirello posted:

lemme go against the grain and say I thought the show was dogshit. good couple of first eps, but the plot is poo poo and the games are unfair + luck so not really fun either. the ending is one of the worst I've seen as well. My wife and I predicted literally every twist. the sin of the games basically just being luck kills the entire shows concept for me. they were always extremely unclear about the rules, what was allowed/not allowed. pretty shocked how popular this is but I'm sure it'll fade away soon.

if you enjoyed this kind of concept and would like to see it done better (imo) a prime example is the anime: Kaiji sole survivor. Another good one is the j-drama Liar Game. There's many other examples, since death game was a pretty popular manga genre for a while. I feel bad for the writers who made much more sensical games and compelling dramas than this but this one popped off.

edit: the perfect example is the trading marbles thing that the people above me mentioned. it seemed obvious that was the way it should've gone as described by the rules, but it didn't because it was more "dramatic". and I guess that worked because everyone says 6 is sooooo great.

I mean, I agree in principle, but this wasn't that kind of game to begin with. There was never room for some clever play to turn the tables the point is that it's just a dumb random race for the rich dipshits to bet on. Fairness or skill don't matter, because as we see the VIPs themselves are pretty stupid and just bet on whatever number feels good. Notice how no one bet on any of the finalists. Whether that was intended or not is another question though.

Also, the best adaptation of this kind of story is the actual Korean gameshow Genius, you should watch that.

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Soiled Meat

I made a mental note that a Lacan book showed up in the brother’s cyber dorm, but forgot to look it up afterwards until I came across this

https://www.tiktok.com/embed/7015357537704840453

Mirello
Jan 29, 2006
The Nameless One


grate deceiver posted:

I mean, I agree in principle, but this wasn't that kind of game to begin with. There was never room for some clever play to turn the tables the point is that it's just a dumb random race for the rich dipshits to bet on. Fairness or skill don't matter, because as we see the VIPs themselves are pretty stupid and just bet on whatever number feels good. Notice how no one bet on any of the finalists. Whether that was intended or not is another question though.

Also, the best adaptation of this kind of story is the actual Korean gameshow Genius, you should watch that.

I watched genius and enjoyed it a lot. Although only season 3 (I think, wither 3 or 2). I thought the contestents were too stupid in other seasons. That's another good recc for people who liked this show or concept

exmarx
Feb 18, 2012


The experience over the years
of nothing getting better
only worse.


agree with others that it was good until the final ep.

the english dialogue ruled so hard – not just the writing, but the totally flat delivery. it reminds me of some other tv show or movie that i can't put my finger on.

iamsosmrt
Jun 14, 2008



punk rebel ecks posted:

Do you mean the superior who gets killed off by the Frontman?

Is that what happened? I honestly missed that. I remember someone coming to find 029 after the game ended and after another disguise, he walks away sheepishly. Was that the one?

Steve Yun posted:

This is some Tactical Realism armchair quarterbacking. It’s normal for people to blank out and have trouble conceiving of novel options when they’re at death’s doorstep.

Most people don’t even know there’s a difference between regular and tempered glass, and even if they knew they wouldn’t know what the difference was. This even gets addressed in the show with the guy who thinks he knows the difference but doesn’t.

And what are bundles of clothes and shoes going to illuminate? Is a jacket going to sound like whump on regular glass and whump on tempered glass? Even the glass expert had trouble remembering if the marble sound on the glass was the sound of tempered glass or regular glass. A rubber shoe isn’t going to sound like anything he’s ever tapped against glass before. One glass sounds like bung and the other glass sounds like bong

Your quarterbacking point has some merit, but I don't mean I know it's going to work, moreso that 16 people should be trying drat near everything before jumping. And even if it's a bung vs. bong, the remaining players do gain some knowledge, which at the end becomes the point of the game's structure anyway. Besides, as a fairly sweaty guy, I know from experience that even damp wet clothes can slam down hard with a good swing. Even if it was fruitless, it's meaningful to show how hopeless it really is. I preferred the bridge game in Kaiji the gambler.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 11 years!


Buglord

Shneak posted:

I still don't understand the squid game's (the actual children's game) rules despite it being explained twice

That is intentional.

There is a much more straightforward sort of red rover tag game where there is just two squares and you run between them. Squid game is that game if you let a bunch of 7 year olds evolve the game calvin ball style, where it's the base game but with endless arbitrary and nonsensical rules.

It's like you growing up you probably played tag, and knew variations like freeze tag, but then once hung out with some kids that were like "we play spiderman tag, the mail box is home base, if you touch a tree you can't be tagged for 30 seconds, billy is always it and he can make two power rangers who can poison you". Like there was the core game everyone knew and a general idea of what "the squid game" variation was, but it was basically just local homebrew nonsense rules. Like if you went to a different school their version of squid game would share similarities with the split field but beyond that would be played the way 8 year olds decided it was played.

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Soiled Meat

Sinteres posted:

The thing that makes the least sense about the reveal is that the old guy still very much put his life at risk in the tug of war game, unless we're to believe they would have just dangled there without the rope being cut until the soldiers could save him (and maybe kill everyone else/end the game since it would all be a clear sham at that point. Yeah, he provided them with some tips to make up for their disadvantage somewhat, but they still would have lost without the last minute step forward plan. That said, maybe he actually was willing to accept some risk and felt that it would be pointless to be totally safe, but was managing the risk so that was the only time he was really in any danger, idk.

At some point the locks handcuffing the old man to the tug of war rope disappear. He was going to abandon ship if his team actually lost







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Vagabong
Mar 2, 2019


[quote="iamsosmrt" post="518252118"
Your quarterbacking point has some merit, but I don't mean I know it's going to work, moreso that 16 people should be trying drat near everything before jumping. And even if it's a bung vs. bong, the remaining players do gain some knowledge, which at the end becomes the point of the game's structure anyway. Besides, as a fairly sweaty guy, I know from experience that even damp wet clothes can slam down hard with a good swing. Even if it was fruitless, it's meaningful to show how hopeless it really is. I preferred the bridge game in Kaiji the gambler.
[/quote]

Yeah, for me it less 'I'd of solved this easily' and more that it would of added some flavour to what was the dullest game really. Like I said previously, the majority of the episode is just mooks and some antagonists dying one by one, with the protagonists in the safest postion for the majority of the episode.

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