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DreamingofRoses
Jun 27, 2013
Nap Ghost
What is romance?

Wikipedia posted:

A romance novel or romantic novel is a type of genre fiction novel which places its primary focus on the relationship and romantic love between two people, and usually has an "emotionally satisfying and optimistic ending."


While that is probably the most succinct way to sum up the overall plot of a romance novel, it should be noted that it's specifically the focus on the emotional development of the Hero/ines in the context of their relationship(s) that makes it a unique genre. You'll generally find romance in two formats: "category" and single-title. these are distinct from subgenre and refer to how the book is published. A single-title is just published as a standalone book, even if it's part of a series. A "category" is usually shorter, between 45,000 to 70,000 words, and are published as part of a common imprint or series, like Harlequin's Silhouette, and generally have a very distinct reading feel compared to single-title books (paraphrased from the Romance Writers of America.)

The subgenre of a romance novel is independent of the format it is published in (although if it is a category romance, it will affect what imprint it's published under), and are the more familiar descriptions of romance such as paranormal romance, historical, contemporary, etc.

Note: While erotica and romance tend to share a lot of the same shelf-space, they are considered somewhat distinct and there is plenty of romance without any explicit scenes at all. The level of explicitness within a romance novel is referred to as the "heat" of the novel, and different publishers have different requirements for heat-levels.

While the above is a general rundown of the modern romance genre set-up, as Wikipedia says as long as it's a book that focuses on the romantic relationship between two (or more) people it's considered romance. The HEA/HFN (Happily Ever After/For Now) is also optional, although you will almost always get one in mainstream publisher romance.

What is *good* romance?

Depends on your definition of ‘good’. There is literally something for everybody in the romance world, and the existing sub-genres can help you find them. Much like any other genre, you need to get a feel for what you like. You're probably most familiar with category romances, like the ones Harlequin produces, and they're great! Come in all shapes and sub-genres, good for a quick read and satisfying emotional payoff. But they're not the only romance out there by a long shot. Some of the most famous classic romance novels that are generally considered good include

  • Jane Eyre - Charlotte Bronte
  • Pride and Prejudice (And honestly every other book by Jane Austen
  • Wuthering Heights - Emily Bronte
  • Anna Karenina - Leo Tolstoy
  • Madame Bovary - Gustave Falubert
  • The Princess Bride - William Goldman
  • Gone with the Wind - Margaret Mitchell
  • The Time Traveller's Wife - Audrey Niffenegger
  • Rebecca - Daphne du Maurier
  • The Notebook - Nicholas Sparks
  • Little Women - Louisa May Alcott

Some of the most highly rated modern romance authors include
  • Robin Carr (of Virgin River fame)
  • Alyssa Cole
  • Danielle Steele
  • Nora Roberts
  • Nicholas Sparks (as mentioned above)
  • Beverly Jenkins
  • Lisa Kleypas
  • Sonali Dev
  • Kim Dare

There are a lot more out there, and it's not surprising a lot of them are classics (and pretty varied in content), given that the main center of romance is the emotional core.

Where can I find romance?

The most notorious romance publishing house out there is, of course, Harlequin , but since romance is such a cash cow there are plenty of other publishers that handle romance including Decadent Publishing, Spencer Hill Press, Boroughs Publishing Group, and large publishing houses like Random House have lines like Loveswept and Flirt dedicated exclusively to the romance genre.

However, you can find romance novels anywhere. There are tons of indie publishers out there cranking out amazing content nonstop for self- and independent publishing through eBooks (looking at you, Mr. Tingle). There are plenty of review sites like Smart Bitches, Trashy Books that can help you find something you like.

Isn't romance, like, chick-lit?

That's how some people refer to it, but there are plenty of people across the gender spectrum who read romance as well! As opposed to a lot of 'romantic comedy' movies that are considered "chick flicks", the actions of the characters in these books tends to be waaay less sociopathic and creepy as a general rule.

Have a question about romance? Want a book recommendation? Want to enthuse over a romance you just read/are reading? Any recommendations for changes to the OP? Go for it!

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3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

Never thought about Bovary as romance, more misery porn like Balzac's poor relative novels.

DreamingofRoses
Jun 27, 2013
Nap Ghost

3D Megadoodoo posted:

Never thought about Bovary as romance, more misery porn like Balzac's poor relative novels.

It is also that! It could be classified as a cynic’s/pessimist’s romance, but it follows the structure of following the development (then degradation) of a romantic relationship and technically a romance does not need an HEA to be classified as one.

cheese eats mouse
Jul 6, 2007

A real Portlander now
Yay this thread! I wanted something more Halloween themed and lighter for October so I have on order both The Ex Hex and Payback's a Witch.

DreamingofRoses
Jun 27, 2013
Nap Ghost

cheese eats mouse posted:

Yay this thread! I wanted something more Halloween themed and lighter for October so I have on order both The Ex Hex and Payback's a Witch.

Ooooh! Let me know how Payback’s a Witch is. It looks good!

comforthawk
Apr 15, 2018

was wondering when we'd get a romance thread, good on ya

recently I kinda overdid it on the "it's the year 1896 and we're gay and in love but we gotta hide it lest we be arrested for buggery, also there's a cthulu monster and/or a ghost" m/m romances so I've been taking a break from, like, reading in general. I've found that it's that theme in particular that I don't like, the having to hide for fear of arrest, but it seems unfortunately quite popular. ah well. maybe I'll try one of those "he's a detective and he sees ghosts and they gotta work together and solve a murder" romances next, something a touch more modern

I'm surprised it took me this long to get back into romance tho, I used to read my aunt's harlequin paperbacks whenever I could when I was a wee closeted sprout

comforthawk
Apr 15, 2018

alright, caught the reading bug again, gonna check out jex lane's beautiful monsters series. I've been promised a vampire and an incubus, let's goooo, gotta keep the halloween spirit alive until AT LEAST valentine's day

next day edit--
my spine is crunchy from being contorted in my reading chair for so long, but I return to you with a trip report on Captive, Sire, and Broken from Jex Lane. there's supposed to be a forthcoming fourth, Blood Prince, but going off the author's twitter page, she's in a big depressive slump, so while I'm sending well-wishes, I don't presume to think the fourth book will be coming anytime soon, if ever

now, I'm fairly easy to please as far as romance consumers go--as long as the protagonist isn't insufferable and the overarching plot kind of makes sense, I'm happy. Matthew, the protag of this series, is a very special man who gets hosed over repeatedly by circumstances beyond his control and yet somehow manages to remain 1. willing to continue being alive, 2. a loving, highly motivated dad, and 3. charming if you like fumbling dummies who, over time, grow to be more competent and ambitious.

all in all I don't feel that my evening binge-reading was poorly spent. I wouldn't even call this strictly m/m romance--there are quite a few m/f scenes, and the women presented throughout the series all have their own agency and motivations, don't exist purely for the protag to bone down with, and don't tend to fall into the "here is an awful woman to terrorize the protag, because that's what women do" trope that I've seen in other less enjoyable m/m works. overall, it gets the comforthawk "it was nice, I liked it" stamp of approval.

comforthawk fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Nov 3, 2021

DreamingofRoses
Jun 27, 2013
Nap Ghost

comforthawk posted:

alright, caught the reading bug again, gonna check out jex lane's beautiful monsters series. I've been promised a vampire and an incubus, let's goooo, gotta keep the halloween spirit alive until AT LEAST valentine's day

next day edit--
my spine is crunchy from being contorted in my reading chair for so long, but I return to you with a trip report on Captive, Sire, and Broken from Jex Lane. there's supposed to be a forthcoming fourth, Blood Prince, but going off the author's twitter page, she's in a big depressive slump, so while I'm sending well-wishes, I don't presume to think the fourth book will be coming anytime soon, if ever

now, I'm fairly easy to please as far as romance consumers go--as long as the protagonist isn't insufferable and the overarching plot kind of makes sense, I'm happy. Matthew, the protag of this series, is a very special man who gets hosed over repeatedly by circumstances beyond his control and yet somehow manages to remain 1. willing to continue being alive, 2. a loving, highly motivated dad, and 3. charming if you like fumbling dummies who, over time, grow to be more competent and ambitious.

all in all I don't feel that my evening binge-reading was poorly spent. I wouldn't even call this strictly m/m romance--there are quite a few m/f scenes, and the women presented throughout the series all have their own agency and motivations, don't exist purely for the protag to bone down with, and don't tend to fall into the "here is an awful woman to terrorize the protag, because that's what women do" trope that I've seen in other less enjoyable m/m works. overall, it gets the comforthawk "it was nice, I liked it" stamp of approval.

I do love me a charming dummy who grows. I’ll have to check that out!

comforthawk
Apr 15, 2018

I've been plowing through books again, and I return with a few gems!

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17791691-dragon-slayer
a little sad that there appears to be just the one--the world itself seemed interesting. court/political intrigue and dragons, but the real star of the show here is how sweet the romance between the main characters is like, from the get-go? like, lord mallory's kind and sweet to ingram throughout, no weird ramp-up of being a dick to your arranged husband like it's some kinda hazing ritual. refreshing!

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/58611361-the-necromancer-s-light
a very dnd-esque touch-starved necromancer and big soft meathead paladin romance. tickled my brain in ALL the right ways. second installment comes out in a few days apparently?? SA user comforthawk, excited for a book publication?? my jaded heart is warm and cozy.

https://www.goodreads.com/series/117583-princes-of-the-blood
a trio, different main character couples in each installment. people with the right percentage of demon blood in their lineage get to undergo a magical ritual that turns them into a prince, a pinnacle of monster-killing prowess. they need partners that remind them of their humanity and give them nummy nummy blood snacks. the third one spends most of its time as a prequel, but I actually liked this one the most because again, I am a sucker for worldbuilding and origins.


As to what I'm currently reading, I've consumed the first book in this series--little more modern, and set in boston so I get to read all the non-vampire dialogue with hellish boston accents. the end of the first book does feature clam chowder.
https://www.goodreads.com/series/173102-the-beacon-hill-sorcerer

DreamingofRoses
Jun 27, 2013
Nap Ghost
So, I don’t know if anyone here listens to podcasts but I got turned on to (hah) the Bonkers Romance podcast by Heaving Bosoms, and some of these books they talk about as ‘aftercare’ (it makes sense if you listen to the podcast) are as much pure insanity as the book being reviewed.

cheese eats mouse
Jul 6, 2007

A real Portlander now

DreamingofRoses posted:

Ooooh! Let me know how Payback’s a Witch is. It looks good!

It was really fun the whole way through and nothing seemed to slack off. Im looking forward to the next book they tease at the end as it seems like the author is planning on switching the POV every book.

kurona_bright
Mar 21, 2013
Hey, I didn't realize we got a romance thread! Here's what I've read lately:

Peter Cabot Gets Lost
a gay 1960s roadtrip enemies-to-lovers romance -- a pretty light, fun read. tbh the setting made it feel 'timeless' for lack of better word? Using a map instead of GPS for directions, using payphones instead of cell phones, etc.

Under the Whispering Door
story about a ghost learning to be a better person (it's also gay). I definitely liked it better than The House in the Cerulean Sea, which struck me as a little saccharine. The beginning's a little rough, but the emotional moments got me more than I was expecting them to. The romance is definitely not as central of a focus as you might expect though.

Archangel's Light
uhhhhhh it's the 14th book in the Guild Hunter series, and the first one that has two men as the couple (so I don't recommend starting with this one). It's a little light on the romance which only becomes apparent in the last 10% of the book (and they only kiss. lmao), but I kind of respected the focus on laying out their friendship, since there's an actual payoff to that in the final scenes.

T. Kingfisher's Saint of Steel series: Paladin's Grace, Paladin's Strength, Paladin's Hope
I actually started with Paladin's Hope (aka the gay one, the other ones feature heterosexual couples) and then went backwards, mostly because the author's previous attempt at a romance novel (she's written a fair amount of fantasy + fairy-tale retellings) had a Big Misunderstanding that really got on my nerves. I'm happy to say that these novels definitely do not suffer from this problem. If steampunk-ish worlds and romance heroes who are berserker paladins of a dead god sound interesting I recommend checking this out. And also check out the author's non-romance works, they're also good.

quote:

So, I don’t know if anyone here listens to podcasts but I got turned on to (hah) the Bonkers Romance podcast by Heaving Bosoms, and some of these books they talk about as ‘aftercare’ (it makes sense if you listen to the podcast) are as much pure insanity as the book being reviewed.
I've mostly been listening to Fated Mates, which has been good. I think the hosts being a romance writer & a romance editor/critic leads to interesting conversations about structure. I might check this out, too

EDIT:
a suggestion for the OP -- I think Bridgerton and Julia Quinn should probably be mentioned somewhere, since that might currently be the most prominent romance-novel piece of media that isn't also an Austen adaptation

kurona_bright fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Nov 30, 2021

DreamingofRoses
Jun 27, 2013
Nap Ghost

kurona_bright posted:

I've mostly been listening to Fated Mates, which has been good. I think the hosts being a romance writer & a romance editor/critic leads to interesting conversations about structure. I might check this out, too

You absolutely should! Fated Mates is great, and definitely on my list as well but Bonkers Romance has Jenny Nordbak who is a goddamn treasure of insanity. Be warned: between her and Melody the podcast is very much headphones only around other people. Heaving Bosoms is fun because it’s just Erin and Melody giggling like crazy people the entire time.

quote:

EDIT:
a suggestion for the OP -- I think Bridgerton and Julia Quinn should probably be mentioned somewhere, since that might currently be the most prominent romance-novel piece of media that isn't also an Austen adaptation

Noted! Yeah, I’ll definitely have to put that on there. I also meant to note the % of book sales and amount of revenue that comes from romance publishing.


Weird question for the thread: has anyone read Den of Vipers?

comforthawk
Apr 15, 2018

kurona_bright posted:

Under the Whispering Door
story about a ghost learning to be a better person (it's also gay). I definitely liked it better than The House in the Cerulean Sea, which struck me as a little saccharine. The beginning's a little rough, but the emotional moments got me more than I was expecting them to. The romance is definitely not as central of a focus as you might expect though.

Archangel's Light
uhhhhhh it's the 14th book in the Guild Hunter series, and the first one that has two men as the couple (so I don't recommend starting with this one). It's a little light on the romance which only becomes apparent in the last 10% of the book (and they only kiss. lmao), but I kind of respected the focus on laying out their friendship, since there's an actual payoff to that in the final scenes.

T. Kingfisher's Saint of Steel series: Paladin's Grace, Paladin's Strength, Paladin's Hope
I actually started with Paladin's Hope (aka the gay one, the other ones feature heterosexual couples) and then went backwards, mostly because the author's previous attempt at a romance novel (she's written a fair amount of fantasy + fairy-tale retellings) had a Big Misunderstanding that really got on my nerves. I'm happy to say that these novels definitely do not suffer from this problem. If steampunk-ish worlds and romance heroes who are berserker paladins of a dead god sound interesting I recommend checking this out. And also check out the author's non-romance works, they're also good.

ooo these all look real good, under the whispering door sounds right up my morbid alley, bless

As for what I've been reading, I have a couple of things I enjoyed. Both are gay and feature smut prominently so there is ur content warning.

I've absolutely demolished Lee Colgin's Immortal Jewels series over the past couple of days and found it very sweet. I'm finding that I really appreciate when like, a series offers side characters that pique the hell out of my interest and lo and behold the next book in the series focuses on those side characters. Like the author's like 'yea I knew you'd want more of this guy, here u go'. Book one's got a vampire and a witch, book two's got a couple of vampires who could really benefit from couple's therapy, and book three's got a half-demon and a just a regular guy and it's a hell of a ride emotionally but there's a solid HEA.

And prior to Immortal Jewels I also devoured Ariana Nash's Primal Sin series, which is three installments of 'let's see how badly these angels and demons can gently caress up next'. The plot itself was very interesting from like, a longstanding overarching conspiracy standpoint. I would die for Solomon and his cats.

kurona_bright
Mar 21, 2013
I have not read Den of Vipers, but reading that description made me think of another romance I read recently, Run Posy Run.

It's a mafia romance... which I don't really read, but the summary intrigued me. And it was good, except that I really wanted the hero to eat poo poo for a little longer. It also made me discover that maybe I am a prude, because there are several love scenes that happen around other people and I kind of had to mentally gloss over those. It's also a little more brutal than most of the books I like to read -- but I guess that's par for the course for the genre?

Pan Dulce
Jan 4, 2011

Beautiful cinnamon roll too good for this world, too pure



FINALLY! A romance thread. I've been binging the Juliette Cross Stay a Spell series. The first one was pretty funny, with the guy being a werewolf and imbuing him with a curse that makes his wolf a split personality, kinda like Venom. He matched well with the witch trying to break his curse for him.

I also read the first two in Ruby Dixon's Ice Planet Barbarians series because a) the new redesigned covers are pretty and b) I just HAD to know how sex would work with a 7foot tall blue alien with a tail and a differently shaped penis. Suffice to say, it's interesting.

These three books I talked about are my first foray into indie romances. I'm usually into an illustrated cover, contemporary romance or a nice pulpy historical romance. I thought because they weren't traditionally published the writing would suffer but so far these haven't disappointed.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Hey! One of my favorite authors has put out a romance novel and I wanna tell you about it.

https://www.lilithsaintcrow.com/the-books/sons-of-ymre/

Sons of Ymre: Erik by Lilith Saintcrow.

quote:

Long ago, there was a mad god who almost destroyed the world.

And he is still out there, waiting…

On a cold winter's evening, Liv Stellack escapes a bad date…and walks straight into nightmare. Kidnapped and held without ransom, she's ready to use every trick in the book to escape. But her captors aren't criminals, they're Sons of Ymre, hunters of the unclean things living in the cracks of sanity and dreams—and Liv is a valuable tool in their war against the Mad God.

Erik knows the beautiful woman they've rescued can't possibly understand the danger she's in, or the fact that she's being held for her own protection. Some things can't be explained, only shown; he and his fellow Sons have to keep their precious potential alive long enough for the days to lengthen so she can be transported to another temple and learn how to fight an evil older than recorded history.

But treachery lives in the Mad God's chosen, and it's soon obvious that one of the Sons can't be trusted. Fleeing for their lives, Liv and Erik must make an uneasy alliance, depending on each other to reach tenuous safety.

That is, if the monsters don't get them first…

I preordered it, it's on my kindle, and I'm gonna start reading soon. I'm also excited as it looks like there'll be more in the series and I love her writing style.

Now if you don't like paranormal stuff in your romance, she also recently wrote a regular suspense romance with guns n' stuff and I blew through it, I loved it:

https://www.lilithsaintcrow.com/the-books/ghost-squad/

quote:

Damage

Keeping her safe will be his hardest assignment yet. . .

Reeling from trauma and divorce, Cara Halperin takes what should be a simple job with an expensive agency. As a nanny to rich children, she shouldn’t have much to worry about, and her job is just complex enough to keep her from brooding. Unfortunately, the agency’s sent her into a trap.

Vincent Desmarais wants to go back into the field, but instead, he’s put on leave. The diagnosis? PTSD. No problem–he can pick up security work on the side to keep himself sharp–that is, if the side work isn’t just as dangerous as the bloody places he’s longing to get back to.

When the lights go out, Cara and her young charge have only one option: to trust the new security guy. Vincent finds himself unwilling to abandon them to fate or let them out of his sight. If the trio wants to stay alive, they’ve got to trust each other. . .

. . .but that may just be what their enemies are counting on.

Everyone
Sep 6, 2019

by sebmojo
I remember that maybe a decade and a half ago I got into J. D. Robb(Nora Roberts) "In Death" series. Eve Dallas is a Lieutenant in the NYPD of maybe a century from now. There's robots and spaceships and weird future stuff. A futuristic sci-fi police procedural was very much my bag. Except. Except for Roarke. Roarke is the super-handsome billionaire demigod that Eve eventually marries. So the "In Death" end up First few chapters: set up, crime scenes, etc. followed by 20 pages of Eve and Roarke loving. Another few chapters of cop stuff, then 15-20 more pages of them loving. And that was the structure for the maybe five books that I read before I just gave the hell up on the series.

Antivehicular
Dec 30, 2011


I wanna sing one for the cars
That are right now headed silent down the highway
And it's dark and there is nobody driving And something has got to give

Everyone posted:

I remember that maybe a decade and a half ago I got into J. D. Robb(Nora Roberts) "In Death" series. Eve Dallas is a Lieutenant in the NYPD of maybe a century from now. There's robots and spaceships and weird future stuff. A futuristic sci-fi police procedural was very much my bag. Except. Except for Roarke. Roarke is the super-handsome billionaire demigod that Eve eventually marries. So the "In Death" end up First few chapters: set up, crime scenes, etc. followed by 20 pages of Eve and Roarke loving. Another few chapters of cop stuff, then 15-20 more pages of them loving. And that was the structure for the maybe five books that I read before I just gave the hell up on the series.
I used to read these fairly consistently, but I definitely got Roarke fatigue after a while. He's the least interesting person in the series by far and he gets constant screen time / is always pulling off deus ex machina solutions for any obstacle in Eve's way, because he's hypercompetent at everything, knows everyone, and has more money than God. Just super loving boring and kind of unpleasant.

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

All Wodehouse novels are, at their core, romance novels, but he treats romance like it's a Heath Robinson contraption (or a Rube Goldberg machine for the Americans). I never really thought about it before but all that all the shenanigans end up accomplishing is getting the right girls engaged to marry the right men. (Yes I chose those specific words deliberately :barf:)

Everyone
Sep 6, 2019

by sebmojo

3D Megadoodoo posted:

All Wodehouse novels are, at their core, romance novels, but he treats romance like it's a Heath Robinson contraption (or a Rube Goldberg machine for the Americans). I never really thought about it before but all that all the shenanigans end up accomplishing is getting the right girls engaged to marry the right men. (Yes I chose those specific words deliberately :barf:)

I remember that in college I'd read those Harlequin romance and almost every plot was some version of "Girl meets boy. Boys treats girl like poo poo. Girl decides she likes being treated like poo poo. They live in dysfunctional bliss ever after."

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020
One of the good things about romance getting more feminist starting in the 90s is that, for the first time, heroes were allowed to have character arcs other than learning to be a little nicer to their heroines.

Pan Dulce
Jan 4, 2011

Beautiful cinnamon roll too good for this world, too pure



I still can't stand romance novels where the man or woman treats the other like trash. Bully romances they're called? I know they're some people's delight, but I don't know why.

kurona_bright
Mar 21, 2013
I do like reading this sort of thing but several things have to hold true:

1) the mean person has to have a reason for being mean. maybe the other person really hosed them over.
2) the mean person can't cross a line. this line is very nebulously defined in my head, sorry, and probably depends on the book.
3) the mean person can't be mean for too long.
4) the mean person has to make it up in some way. it doesn't have to be flashy, but it has to be emotionally meaningful. This is really important, because honestly this is one of the main reasons I read these sort of romances

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
i like it when they're mean because they're hosed up losers like myself

DreamingofRoses
Jun 27, 2013
Nap Ghost

Pan Dulce posted:

I still can't stand romance novels where the man or woman treats the other like trash. Bully romances they're called? I know they're some people's delight, but I don't know why.

I know that I like a good enemies-to-lovers story (though that’s not quite the same thing) and I could also see liking that kind of story if the hero/heroine winds up in metaphorical cold storage for a part of the book and then comes back with ‘a big grovel’, as the ladies on Heaving Bosoms have termed it. I’m 100% with you on straight up bully though.


Speaking of enemies to lovers (combined with a fake engagement no less!) I just finished Luck of the Draw by Kate Clayborn and it’s real good! (Insert plot synopsis here when I’m not on mobile)

Larry Parrish posted:

i like it when they're mean because they're hosed up losers like myself

:same: Although there’s a point after which I can’t stand, see Den of Vipers. (I’m looking for a good reverse-harem/poly-ish romance right now so I don’t have to reread the Meredith Gentry series)

DreamingofRoses fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Mar 2, 2022

Everyone
Sep 6, 2019

by sebmojo

DreamingofRoses posted:

I know that I like a good enemies-to-lovers story (though that’s not quite the same thing) and I could also see liking that kind of story if the hero/heroine winds up in metaphorical cold storage for a part of the book and then comes back with ‘a big grovel’, as the ladies on Heaving Bosoms have termed it. I’m 100% with you on straight up bully though.


Speaking of enemies to lovers (combined with a fake engagement no less!) I just finished Luck of the Draw by Kate Clayborn and it’s real good! (Insert plot synopsis here when I’m not on mobile)

:same: Although there’s a point after which I can’t stand, see Den of Vipers. (I’m looking for a good reverse-harem/poly-ish romance right now so I don’t have to reread the Meredith Gentry series)

Well, same author, but figure any of the of Anita Blake book after, say, Book 7 or so. Book 9 is where I recall that it really kicked into high gear (and also the point where I dropped the series because harem stuff just really isn't my cuppa).

newts
Oct 10, 2012
Anyone got a recommendation for a good series with good characters, an actual plot (prefer supernatural), and some explicit sex? Preferably M/M? Most paranormal romances are just too porn-heavy for me. I’m not even sure if I should be asking in the Romance thread—because I’m not sure if it’s romance I’m describing—but I’m not sure else where to ask :smith:

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

newts posted:

Anyone got a recommendation for a good series with good characters, an actual plot (prefer supernatural), and some explicit sex? Preferably M/M? Most paranormal romances are just too porn-heavy for me. I’m not even sure if I should be asking in the Romance thread—because I’m not sure if it’s romance I’m describing—but I’m not sure else where to ask :smith:

Kate Daniels comes to mind. The series I mean.

e: wait m/m romance hang on, let me consult my books

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

newts posted:

Anyone got a recommendation for a good series with good characters, an actual plot (prefer supernatural), and some explicit sex? Preferably M/M? Most paranormal romances are just too porn-heavy for me. I’m not even sure if I should be asking in the Romance thread—because I’m not sure if it’s romance I’m describing—but I’m not sure else where to ask :smith:

Okay take two:

- Nalini Singh's Guild Hunter series develops a plot and has some smut, and by book 10 it features a m/m couple. BUT there are some huge caveats, as each book focuses on a new couple, she gets kinda formulaic, and the first book especially features some real questionable consent stuff. The couple works through it and I adore them, but book 1 is real rough.

Man, m/m is really limiting it and I hate that. I haven't read nearly enough m/m urban fantasy.

Have you read The Last Sun by KD Edwards? It's UF, m/m, and I've heard it's extremely good.

If you're willing to goodreads dive this list might help: https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/24617.Best_Urban_Fantasy_with_gay_glbtq_characters

And finally - though this one is a real controversial mention and I promise I've heard it all - Anita Blake by LKH is 30+ books that goes all over the place, ultimately landing (by book 10-ish) in a poly queer pile that's fascinating for Anita to navigate. Some of the books are going to be real porn heavy though, but that does ease up...though never to book 1-9 levels.

newts
Oct 10, 2012
Thanks so much for the recs! :love: And, yes, that’s essentially what I’m after: urban fantasy with a m/m romance.

I read (and mostly liked) the PsyCop series (in the list you provided). That’s basically what I’m looking for. Book 1 was a little rough, and the later books are a little too schmoopy for me. The Spectral Files Series (by S.E. Harmon) was decent too.

I think I read most of the Anita Blake series back when I was a teenager (not sure how many I got to). They just got boring after a while, and the main character—I can’t believe I’m saying this—got way too much action.

I’ll try The Last Sun. Looks interesting!

Everyone
Sep 6, 2019

by sebmojo

newts posted:

Thanks so much for the recs! :love: And, yes, that’s essentially what I’m after: urban fantasy with a m/m romance.

I read (and mostly liked) the PsyCop series (in the list you provided). That’s basically what I’m looking for. Book 1 was a little rough, and the later books are a little too schmoopy for me. The Spectral Files Series (by S.E. Harmon) was decent too.

I think I read most of the Anita Blake series back when I was a teenager (not sure how many I got to). They just got boring after a while, and the main character—I can’t believe I’m saying this—got way too much action.

I’ll try The Last Sun. Looks interesting!

I rather enjoyed the Sookie Stackhouse series (the books True Blood was based on).

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

newts posted:

Thanks so much for the recs! :love: And, yes, that’s essentially what I’m after: urban fantasy with a m/m romance.

I read (and mostly liked) the PsyCop series (in the list you provided). That’s basically what I’m looking for. Book 1 was a little rough, and the later books are a little too schmoopy for me. The Spectral Files Series (by S.E. Harmon) was decent too.

I think I read most of the Anita Blake series back when I was a teenager (not sure how many I got to). They just got boring after a while, and the main character—I can’t believe I’m saying this—got way too much action.

I’ll try The Last Sun. Looks interesting!

If you want more m/f urban fantasy recs, here's a shortlist:

- Chronicles of Elantra (little to no romance, more fantasy, VERY good)
- Kate Daniels by Ilona Andrews
- Taken by Lilith Saintcrow (standalone were-weasel!)
- October Daye (fae crimes)
- Kitty Norville (werewolf talk show host, good look at trauma and recovering from it)

And more m/f paranormal romance recs:

- Black Dagger Brotherhood (guilty pleasure, so much fun)
- Demonica series by Larissa Ione
- World of the Lupi (kind of UF as well)

and lol yeah Anita Blake gets SO much tail in books 10-15 (give or take) that even a smut fiend like me was all "hey I want more plot" and thankfully the balance has been evening out again as I plunge into books 20+


But yeah... there is a shameful lack of m/m in urban fantasy which is wild to me given how insanely popular Supernatural the TV show was. I know the show was aggressively straight but it got me interested in UF in a big way thanks to all the demons and angels running around, and you cannot tell me Dean/Cas isn't real on some level. Where is my m/m PNR / UF, damnit! I want my angels to kiss each other!

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Rant: I fuckin' love paranormal romances. I love 'em. I want to see werewolves and vampires and witches and more getting it on. I'll take anything as long as the writing is at least decent (preferably good) and the characters are fun. I don't mind chaste romances, I don't mind smutty romances, I'm here for a good romantic time.

So naturally this genre fuckin' loves to give me consent problems. Christine Feehan's sold a lot of books and has long running series surely her series will be good right? Wrong, first book opens with psychic sexual assault. Kresley Cole's Immortals After Dark sounds fun, a half vampire/half Valkyrie (what?) lady runs into a werewolf and they discover they're soulmates despite being on opposite sides of the werewolf vs vampire war.... but whoops no the entire book is a masterclass in how stockholm syndrome works. The dude stalks her, kidnaps her, beats her, sexually harasses her, and finally rapes her multiple times and by the end of it it pretends that they're a cool power couple when uhhh no! No!

Even Nalini Singh, who I usually enjoy, will dive into this "sexual harrassment but actually it's okay now" well and it's so maddening. There are ways to show that the dudes (and it's always the dudes) are dangerous and angsty and powerful without filling the books with red flags.

:sigh:

I don't have a good conclusion here. I keep reading PNRs and giving the bad ones bad reviews on goodreads (and vise-versa for the good ones) but the fact that the genre has enough of these to show a trend makes me really disturbed.

Food Guy
Oct 10, 2012

newts posted:

Anyone got a recommendation for a good series with good characters, an actual plot (prefer supernatural), and some explicit sex? Preferably M/M? Most paranormal romances are just too porn-heavy for me. I’m not even sure if I should be asking in the Romance thread—because I’m not sure if it’s romance I’m describing—but I’m not sure else where to ask :smith:

The Beacon Hill Sorceror series was mentioned earlier in the thread, but that's a pretty good series, minus the last book which I just found fell real flat.

Hailey Turner's Soulbound series was really good. The main character is a government made of sorts and his partner is a werewolf, involves a lot of gods in it. Very plot heavy, gay as hell and about seven books long I think.

I liked Charlie Cochets THIRDS series which is a shifter series that mostly has people turning into big cats instead of wolves. It's like a procedural, all the main characters are pretty much part of like I guess a shifter SWAT division. It has a long running plot throughout the books, tends to be pretty serious for the most part. Also has a spin off that focuses on a super secret Spy division.

Maz Maddox's RELIC series is about a group of dinosaur shifters who work to recover fossils. Weird as hell but pretty cool.

Sam Burn's Fantastic Fluke series is a bit more of an urban fantasy, but it's set in a world of mages and has a very strong romantic feeling to it. His Rowan Harbour books are also pretty good. Plot is supernaturally focused, heavy romance element but is a very cosy sort of series.

There are more I can think of, but amazon is being a dick and I can't figure out how to see my kindle unlimited history.

Food Guy fucked around with this message at 10:02 on Mar 4, 2022

Everyone
Sep 6, 2019

by sebmojo

StrixNebulosa posted:

Rant: I fuckin' love paranormal romances. I love 'em. I want to see werewolves and vampires and witches and more getting it on. I'll take anything as long as the writing is at least decent (preferably good) and the characters are fun. I don't mind chaste romances, I don't mind smutty romances, I'm here for a good romantic time.

So naturally this genre fuckin' loves to give me consent problems. Christine Feehan's sold a lot of books and has long running series surely her series will be good right? Wrong, first book opens with psychic sexual assault. Kresley Cole's Immortals After Dark sounds fun, a half vampire/half Valkyrie (what?) lady runs into a werewolf and they discover they're soulmates despite being on opposite sides of the werewolf vs vampire war.... but whoops no the entire book is a masterclass in how stockholm syndrome works. The dude stalks her, kidnaps her, beats her, sexually harasses her, and finally rapes her multiple times and by the end of it it pretends that they're a cool power couple when uhhh no! No!

Even Nalini Singh, who I usually enjoy, will dive into this "sexual harrassment but actually it's okay now" well and it's so maddening. There are ways to show that the dudes (and it's always the dudes) are dangerous and angsty and powerful without filling the books with red flags.

:sigh:

I don't have a good conclusion here. I keep reading PNRs and giving the bad ones bad reviews on goodreads (and vise-versa for the good ones) but the fact that the genre has enough of these to show a trend makes me really disturbed.

The Sookie Stackhouse books are good and consensual. For that matter while it isn't completely the focus of the series, Rivers of London is really good as well in terms of the Peter/Beverly relationship.

newts
Oct 10, 2012

Food Guy posted:

Lots of great recs.

Thanks so much! I’ll check these out. I think I have the first Soulbound book. Not sure why I didn’t finish it, but maybe I’ll pick it up again.

I wonder if the consent issues in paranormal romance are the same consent issues in traditional romance, just paranormal-ified? That’s kind of what it seems like to me.

t3isukone
Dec 18, 2020

13km away

StrixNebulosa posted:

Rant: I fuckin' love paranormal romances. I love 'em. I want to see werewolves and vampires and witches and more getting it on. I'll take anything as long as the writing is at least decent (preferably good) and the characters are fun. I don't mind chaste romances, I don't mind smutty romances, I'm here for a good romantic time.

So naturally this genre fuckin' loves to give me consent problems.

I quite like Kresley Cole-the werewolf book wasn't really my thing, but IMO the prequel with the vampire guy and the other Valkyrie lady did dubcon/'no no yes' right in that it was pretty clear they both were extremely into it. No clue wrt Nalini Singh-I've heard her later books got better, but Psy-Changeling went so heavy on the gender essentialism that it got hard to push through.

I think I really liked what I read of Meljean Brook's The Guardians. Kaye Draper's Gryphon's Pride is fluffy, consensual polyamory between a buff bisexual gryphon and a bunch of magical misfits. I haven't read them yet but I absolutely adore Kit Rocha, so I think their Southern Arcana and Red Rock Pass series should be good. If you're up for non-modern setting paranormal, I really enjoyed Bec McMasters' London Steampunk.

comforthawk
Apr 15, 2018

popping back to this thread to share that Lily Mayne's Monstrous series is really enjoyable if you are into m/m human/sort-of-humanoid-monster-from-another-plane type romances

each book in the series features a different couple with their own quirks and vibes, all set in the same general area of a post-apocalyptic united states, and there is a fairly interesting plot going on throughout each installment. for those who mentioned issues of consent, this series is actually really good about that--all of the couples are like, good to one another in that regard.

my favorite so far has been the 3rd book, the rycke, 'cause I like a hosed up bird-man-creature

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StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

I finished reading Dark Prince by Christine Feehan and holy cannoli talk about all of the problems I've been complaining about, batman! Sexism, consent issues, and more! ... but also I loved it and devoured it in three days and want more. It's me, I'm the problematic media enjoyer.

I wrote up a full review here on goodreads where you can find all the warnings and plot summary and I'll say a few things here:

- I love how depression is depicted and baked into the setting.
- I'm a sucker for soulmates even when the concept is inherently full of problems.
- Weird vampire earth rituals own.
- My god I love a "and they lived happily ever after" type of ending.

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