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I don't think it was meant as a punchline because the same thing happened in the Part 5 finale and it was weird there too.
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Oct 22, 2021 03:37
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i think every time anyone actually opens fire on jigen with a gun in part 5 he loving kills them lol this includes all the cops in the finale so i guess that's where it's "going" with that that the big slaughter is immediately followed by the really cool lil bit about the changing times and how jigen's trying to get lupin to quit b/c they're getting old (the old fashioned style of the series and chars thematically) and lupin basically breaking the 4th wall to say "as long as there's an adventure to be had, things to be stole and a way to be insanely cool i'm going to keep on kicking until i can't anymore" as a direct response to that is perfect to me jigen hanging out on the road to ambush them by the OG lupin car (the one that's not the beetle) which then gets shot to poo poo during the gunfight is a nice lil piece too Fereydun fucked around with this message at 11:05 on Oct 22, 2021 |
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Oct 22, 2021 10:58
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Fereydun posted:i think every time anyone actually opens fire on jigen with a gun in part 5 he loving kills them lol Yeah, how well done all the rest of it was is kind of why I brought it up. The show doesn't quite do the little extra bit to make that scene function smoothly, so it feels a bit odd how much murder Jigen and Lupin are doing in the rest of the context. Some shows, like Megaton Musashi from this season, are constantly failing to connect their tone, so their failures aren't worth mentioning. But that's pretty much the only scene in Part V (a show constantly playing with tone) where I felt that kind of disconnect, so it stands out. Makes me kind of wonder if there was some broader intent that I didn't catch, or some deleted lines to further connect it to the themes or something else. There was so much clever stuff going on with the themes even in those episodes that one bit of just "Jigen murders a bunch of dudes" makes me wonder why the writer and director chose that particular resolution.
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Oct 22, 2021 11:09
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the part you're missing is that killing cops isn't an inherently bad act (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 22, 2021 16:05
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they mostly don't kill because they enjoy the madcap chase scenes, but those cops were a bunch of armed guards holding lupin captive. why should jigen care about killing them? the gang simply doesn't consider cop lives to be special and inviolable.
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Oct 22, 2021 19:27
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Maybe I should go through all of Part V again and just make a note of how many antagonists died/probably died/definitely died.
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Oct 22, 2021 20:02
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No one kill Zenigata though
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Oct 23, 2021 02:05
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Xelkelvos posted:No one kill Zenigata though I'm pretty sure if you tried to shoot him he'd just headbutt the bullet and start ranting even louder.
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Oct 23, 2021 02:46
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Rand Brittain posted:Maybe I should go through all of Part V again and just make a note of how many antagonists died/probably died/definitely died.
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Oct 23, 2021 04:59
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Xelkelvos posted:No one kill Zenigata though His car got flipped and he was trapped in it early in the encounter. Though would those Police count like normal ones given that they are Interpol Officers. Which is kind of a different deal then normal police.
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Oct 23, 2021 05:48
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the really weird part of that scene is that zenigata didn't take it to heart at all.
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Oct 23, 2021 06:12
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Zenigata has enough time on the force to know acab is true in his heart of hearts
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Oct 23, 2021 06:50
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Haven’t seen the new episode yet but does Jigen get any lines in this one? If so, how’s the new VA? Edit: Just watched it, he actually sounds pretty close to the original in my opinion (which makes sense as he’s now being voiced by the Japanese Solid Snake/Big Boss, Akio Ohtsuka after all). Decent episode overall, we got a bit more of Zenigata and the Lupin gang this time and it felt like there was a bit more of an equal focus between them and Sherlock Holmes (insert whatever generation this guy’s supposed to be here) then there was last week. Next time seems to be a return to the usual heist antics we know and love from this series. Larryb fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Oct 23, 2021 |
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Oct 23, 2021 20:03
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While it may be true that we live in a world with many rotten, corrupt police, that doesn't inherently make it morally right to murder police or to dehumanize everyone who is a cop by profession. Please refrain from making posts along those lines in the future thanks.
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Oct 24, 2021 01:12
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Lupin & Dorner did nothing wrong
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Oct 24, 2021 01:25
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Julias posted:While it may be true that we live in a world with many rotten, corrupt police, that doesn't inherently make it morally right to murder police or to dehumanize everyone who is a cop by profession. Please refrain from making posts along those lines in the future thanks. I'l stop when they stop executing people in the street.
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Oct 25, 2021 05:47
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I feel like assuming that all police are exactly like American police is giving American police too much credit by assuming that their corruption is inevitable rather than the result of choice and systemic factors.
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Oct 25, 2021 06:11
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Rand Brittain posted:I feel like assuming that all police are exactly like American police is giving American police too much credit by assuming that their corruption is inevitable rather than the result of choice and systemic factors. Also these are Interpol. Like their whole job is not to deal with normal crime, but international criminals.
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Oct 25, 2021 06:23
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MonsterEnvy posted:Also these are Interpol. Like their whole job is not to deal with normal crime, but international criminals. That said it is kind of weird that police are constantly shooting to kill Lupin even in his red jacket days when he's absolutely not a violent criminal, but it's kind of established that this is how it works.
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Oct 25, 2021 06:39
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even sherlock holmes is shooting to kill no mercy for the lupin crew and none back this reminds me i hope the final koike lupin joint (the lupin movie proper) is godlike
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Oct 25, 2021 06:42
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Rand Brittain posted:That said it is kind of weird that police are constantly shooting to kill Lupin even in his red jacket days when he's absolutely not a violent criminal, but it's kind of established that this is how it works. I think Zenigata has made it very clear that even if you shoot Lupin through the heart, cremate his body, and hold a funeral, he's going to be back the next week. That kind of thing really adjusts the ROE. As for the episode, it felt like it could have done a better job with the Holmes upsell. The detective part, where Lupin ran through their criteria for the hideout, and then went "Yeah, this guy would have found us by checking the same thing." was a good bit of one-upsmanship for Holmes, but Jigen and Goemon came off as total chumps. They didn't do anything cool, and Holmes didn't counter them by showing off a clever plan or improvised use of his environment. Jigen just couldn't hit a man running in a straight line, Goemon couldn't cut him, and in general, everyone just let Holmes win. And then Holmes just lets Lupin go, making it unclear what his motive was in this whole thing. It's a tricky balance to make a new character look good by beating known characters without undermining anyone, and I don't think this managed it.
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Oct 25, 2021 07:12
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That's just the cocaine at work.
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Oct 25, 2021 07:39
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So, inspired by Arist watching Cowboy Bebop for the first time and Jobbo Fett pushing through Gundam shows, I've decided I'll do the same for Lupin III. I have never watched an episode of any of the shows, never seen any of the films or TV specials, never played any of the games and never read any of the manga. All I know comes from pop culture osmosis and Youtube recommending me out of context compilations of Part 2 clips. I'm sure I won't burn out thirty episodes into part 2.
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Oct 29, 2021 03:47
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Arc Hammer posted:So, inspired by Arist watching Cowboy Bebop for the first time and Jobbo Fett pushing through Gundam shows, I've decided I'll do the same for Lupin III. I have never watched an episode of any of the shows, never seen any of the films or TV specials, never played any of the games and never read any of the manga. All I know comes from pop culture osmosis and Youtube recommending me out of context compilations of Part 2 clips. Just so you’re aware, Part 2 alone is 155 episodes long and Part 3 isn’t much shorter if I recall correctly. Everything else is fairly bite sized by comparison though (generally no more than 24 episodes apiece) Come to think of it, why were 2 and 3 so long compared to literally everything else anyway? Larryb fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Oct 29, 2021 |
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Oct 29, 2021 04:18
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Larryb posted:Come to think of it, why were 2 and 3 so long compared to literally everything else anyway? I assume it was just because it was a successful show with a premise that could easily run as an anthology series (like the original manga I believe) into perpetuity back in a period when anime timeslots weren't worth their weight in gold and farmed out years in advance. Part 4 and onward came in the period where there just aren't as many shows that can run forever, as a result I imagine someone in the production of part 4 made the call to engage in SOME serialization as a result of only having two cours for it.
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Oct 29, 2021 05:22
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Larryb posted:Just so you’re aware, Part 2 alone is 155 episodes long and Part 3 isn’t much shorter if I recall correctly. Everything else is fairly bite sized by comparison though (generally no more than 24 episodes apiece) Part 3 is 50 episodes. Not short, but not near as long as part 2.
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Oct 29, 2021 05:24
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Ah right, in that case kind of curious why they didn’t just keep Part 2 running indefinitely then (wouldn’t be the first anime that’s been on for decades after all).
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Oct 29, 2021 05:38
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chiasaur11 posted:As for the episode, it felt like it could have done a better job with the Holmes upsell. The detective part, where Lupin ran through their criteria for the hideout, and then went "Yeah, this guy would have found us by checking the same thing." was a good bit of one-upsmanship for Holmes, but Jigen and Goemon came off as total chumps. They didn't do anything cool, and Holmes didn't counter them by showing off a clever plan or improvised use of his environment. Jigen just couldn't hit a man running in a straight line, Goemon couldn't cut him, and in general, everyone just let Holmes win. He sure did a lot, but he's a season-long antagonist who more or less has to stand up to the whole Lupin crew, and I think it was ultimately fair. Goemon can cut anything with his sword and rarely misses, so Holmes used his cane to prevent Goemon from drawing his sword in the first place. (Goemon is notably not the kind of swordsman who's comfortable starting a bare-handed fight if he can't use his weapon.) Jigen rarely misses with a gun, and Holmes dodging his shots was 50% "super-awareness, plus he's just that good" and 50% "carefully keep Goemon in the line of fire (see 'super-awareness')." He seems to have gotten around Fujiko via a combination of sheer sex appeal and the fact that she was primarily protecting the poster and he didn't actually try to take it from her like she was expecting (also it's incredibly dangerous to assume that you've charmed Fujiko Mine or that it means anything if you did). quote:And then Holmes just lets Lupin go, making it unclear what his motive was in this whole thing. He wanted to try and convince Lupin to just go away, which was very unlikely to work but he wanted to take the chance for Lily's sake. MEANWHILE IN THE LUPIN III "HOW DOES KILLING INTENT EVEN WORK" WATCH:
Violence! What is is good for?
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Oct 30, 2021 06:10
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As for the flashback at the end of the episode, I can see two ways for this to shake out: 1: Lupin didn’t actually kill (what I assume was) Lilly’s father but was still involved in the incident 2: Lupin actually was the killer but there were extenuating circumstances of some kind Lupin did say that Lily’s “memory would return soon” so either way there’s probably more to this than meets the eye. Also despite this being like the 3rd or 4th Sherlock Holmes incarnation we’ve had in this franchise seeing him match wits with the Lupin gang is kind of neat. We’re only 2 episodes in but I’m already kind of liking this more than Part 5 (though we’ll see how it goes). This week it looks like the story is taking a break though so we can engage in some good old fashioned wacky heist action.
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Oct 30, 2021 06:30
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Considering I apparently have several hundred episodes to get through I won't go episode by episode to describe my watch. Just a general vibe of things as I go along. So, I've started with Part 1. Initial impressions: James Bond meets Tintin and a big dose of the film Grand Prix for this first episode. Pretty good setup for what I expect will be the usual cast dynamic. Lupin is super confident but has a blind spot for Fujiko double crossing him. Zenigata chases Lupin but can't pin him, Jigen is always in Lupin's corner but can get tunnel vision, and Fujiko is usually playing her own game. Scorpion is a pretty obvious parody of Spectre and I'm curious if they'll show up again or if the show is episodic enough to throw whatever it feels like into the blend. The next episode preview felt pretty different. People make fun of early dubbing OPs for just shouting the name of the show repeatedly, so I was amused that the original OP for Lupin III is just a guy doing exactly that. For a show from the early 70s it has some surprisingly decent animation at times. Art style was nice. Tonally it felt a bit divided between comedy bonking people on the head followed by Lupin electrocuting an entire room full of people in cold blood. As far as violent anime goes it's pretty tame the way a lot of Bond movies tend to be about their violence. Putting it in the context of the time it released however it was probably shocking. Nowadays it feels a bit more like intentional black comedy as audiences have grown used to seeing people die in much more gruesome ways in their media. I got a good laugh out of Lupin annihilating an entire racetrack and a stadium and Zenigata completely ignoring the carnage to try and figure out if he'd actually done anything illegal. I'll watch some more but this is a good first impression. From this episode alone I am noticing a lot of firsts that seem to have trickled down into the visual language of not only anime but animation in general. I imagine the creators of Archer are big fans. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Oct 30, 2021 |
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Oct 30, 2021 06:52
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Was not expecting Mamoru Oshii's name to pop up here.
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Oct 30, 2021 22:00
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I’m glad even the more plot intensive Lupin seasons still take the time to do one off episodes like this (considering it basically used to be all the show did). I also liked Lupin and Zenigata just talking shop while running.
Larryb fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Oct 30, 2021 |
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Oct 30, 2021 23:48
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this episode felt like one of the throwback episodes in part 4/5, maybe like... a red jacket episode reference? but like, one of the bad red jacket episodes lol the ghost car one was way cooler and better for red jacket throwback this was maybe on par w/ the pink jacket ep where lupin fries his brain complete w/ fujiko being a complete damsel and zenigata being a stooge
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Oct 31, 2021 14:37
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On another note, are there any other Lupin movies that are worth a watch? So far I’ve only seen Cagliostro, First Contact, and The First.
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Oct 31, 2021 17:43
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you should absolutely watch Secret of Mamo
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Oct 31, 2021 20:41
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Arc Hammer posted:For a show from the early 70s it has some surprisingly decent animation at times. Art style was nice. Tonally it felt a bit divided between comedy bonking people on the head followed by Lupin electrocuting an entire room full of people in cold blood. As far as violent anime goes it's pretty tame the way a lot of Bond movies tend to be about their violence. Putting it in the context of the time it released however it was probably shocking. Nowadays it feels a bit more like intentional black comedy as audiences have grown used to seeing people die in much more gruesome ways in their media. I got a good laugh out of Lupin annihilating an entire racetrack and a stadium and Zenigata completely ignoring the carnage to try and figure out if he'd actually done anything illegal. I think it is intentional black comedy to an extent early on, at least sometimes. (Supposedly that was the manga's general tone, though I've never read it.) There's a big shift in tone about a third of the way through Part 1, though, and the Lupin franchise tends to be all over the place tonally in general. Another fun fact about the manga is that there were multiple Fujiko Mines. The anime turned them into a single character, but she ended up with rather inconsistent characterization and backstory as a result.
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Oct 31, 2021 21:02
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Yeah, even to this day Fujiko’s been kind of inconsistent character wise (sometimes she’s part of the gang, sometimes she’s a rival, sometimes she’s a better thief than Lupin, sometimes she’s a damsel, and sometimes she’s kind of a mix of multiple different aspects). I’ve never read the manga either but her being multiple characters there makes sense in that regard.
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Oct 31, 2021 21:06
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Fereydun posted:this episode felt like one of the throwback episodes in part 4/5, maybe like... a red jacket episode reference? I think the pink jacket one was better by a good margin because it committed to the bit. The caper was stupid, there was no real danger, nobody died, and the resolution was a goofy gag they wouldn't have done in a regular episode. It also benefitted from the contrast with Part 5, where Fujiko wasn't part of the gang proper, and where the job was explicitly "in the past". Here, the murder of the old man puts a bit of an unpleasant note in the goofy main tone, the resolution was a standard Jigen trick shot, and Fujiko's role was basically the same in episodes one and two, with a little more being endangered (although she managed to slip her cuffs and seemed to be figuring out an escape plan that didn't do anything because...?) Basically, they're both goofy and dumb, but this just assumes that's enough, while last season's version knew it had no other choice but to go all out.
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Oct 31, 2021 21:20
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Larryb posted:On another note, are there any other Lupin movies that are worth a watch? So far I’ve only seen Cagliostro, First Contact, and The First. Off the top of my head: Secret of Mamo is amazing, it was made before there was an agreed upon formula for franchise movies so it gets really wild and eclectic. The Koike-directed films rule a lot. In Memory of the Walther P38 (localized as Island of Assassins) is a pretty solid, more serious take on a Lupin story. Jun Kawagoe is a very under appreciated action director and while he mostly sticks to remakes of old mecha stuff he has directed two good Lupin movies; Operation Return the Treasure and Goodbye Partner. Silver2195 posted:Another fun fact about the manga is that there were multiple Fujiko Mines. The anime turned them into a single character, but she ended up with rather inconsistent characterization and backstory as a result. I think a lot about how very early on the first anime (or maybe just that pilot episode?) has that line about how Fujiko might be a spy trying to kill Lupin.
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Oct 31, 2021 22:20
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Silver2195 posted:
I thought Fujiko was supposed to be the same lady, but Monkey Punch originally intended for there to be multiple girls like her like the multiple Bond girls in the movies and books. But he got lazy and decided to just use the same one over and over again.
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Oct 31, 2021 22:20
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