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Official D&D Moderation Feedback Thread! Welcome one and all to the much desired feedback thread. The goal of course is to better serve the community et large in D&D and SA as a whole, and to do so we want you to help us understand what you want D&D to be. Before we get started, ground rules: 2. Please try to include feedback about - Current Rules in D&D, What is bad, what is good? - Moderation Methods - How can we improve moderation - What are key issues that bother you or wish to see more discussion around - If you have examples of what you think is troublesome moderation, cite them and provide feedback If you are forumbanned, it still applies here....until the final day (Next Friday). Next Friday (10/29) is Forumbanned Poster Comment day but they must abide by the above rules. This thread will be reviewed by an admin and discussed, and if possible improvements can be made, we will do so. What this thread is NOT for: "I hate so and so mod/IK, they suck" - This isn't helpful, tell us why they suck. "CSPAM or D&D or SA Sucks" That's nice, but has nothing to do with our moderation? "I hate so and so poster, they also suck" So what? If you post any of the above, you will likely get probed. Just sayin. Please try to be reasonable with your posts and to the point, if you can say it in a couple sentences great, but a novel might be hard to us to parse as feedback, given most of us have jobs, family, and probes to issue. And obviously, we probably won't be able to address each and every post and its claims, but we'll do as best as we can after reviewing with an admin This thread will remain active and pinned for a week, and then allowed to fall off unless there's still valuable feedback coming back. We will keep the thread open overnight as long as it doesn't get bad. CommieGIR posted:At the end of this whole thing, lemme be clear: The community owns D&D. Not the mods. \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Cat pictures are encouraged but not required! RULES UPDATE: GreyjoyBastard posted:
GreyjoyBastard posted:
CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Oct 26, 2021 |
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Oct 23, 2021 00:39
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Rules change based on proposal from That Other Thread:
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Tezer posted:Feedback - not letting forumbanned individuals give feedback is like taking voting rights away from felons. Ok, this one I'll act on now: We will open the final day to forumbanned people.
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Oct 23, 2021 01:38
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Cpt_Obvious posted:The excessive moderation has shrunk this forum down to just one or two mega threads. If you want stricter rules, you deserve them. So provide some actual critique so we can fix that, otherwise what's the point of this post? THREAD'S CLOSED FOR THE EVENING, WILL RESUME IN THE AM. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Oct 23, 2021 |
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Oct 23, 2021 03:33
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At the end of this whole thing, lemme be clear: The community owns D&D. Not the mods. If the community says something needs to change, so be it. We will go over any recommendations with admins and enact whatever the community says will make D&D better. So please be honest. And I personally do not care what happens to me being a mod or not. I'd like to think I try my best, but I'm human as any other mod is here.
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Oct 23, 2021 17:57
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Haschel Cedricson posted:Right now the rules of this thread say that it will be closed around 9:30PM EST and opened again at 8AM EST. However, the vast majority of people reading and posting in this forum live in places that are currently observing Daylight Savings Time and will be until October 31(Europe) or November 7(North America). I think it would make a lot more sense and reduce a lot of confusion if the times this thread was locked/unlocked were shifted to 9:30PM EDT and 8AM EDT. Fair enough, we will keep it open overnight as long as it doesn't get too bad.
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Oct 23, 2021 20:01
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Fancy Pelosi posted:As some have suspected, this is a re-reg troll account. This month, I've been posting in bad faith, I've posted lies, I've misrepresented sources (that were directly linked in my posts), I've sniped at other posters directly, I've said vile poo poo. Never caught a probe until I stepped out of D&D and posted the same way. It turns out that all of this stuff is 100% allowed in D&D as long as you post it all with a positive spin for the Democrats. Yesterday, multiple people got probated for pointing out that I was trolling. The problem with D&D moderation is that the mods are gigantic morons (they might be the stupidest posters on this forum) who are super easy to manipulate into punishing posting enemies, which is what the regulars do here to win arguments. This little experiment has made me wonder who else is doing long-form trolling in this subforum, because it's so easy. I suspect how are u. Congrats? You posted mediocre middle of the road stuff that wasn't offensive and when people refused to actually do the namesake of the forum like Debate and Discuss, they got punished. I wasn't aware trolling in the form of devil's advocate was punishable, but I guess that should be a rule? The rule for trolls is to disengage and report, which very few people did. The reports we did get about you being a troll, most of your posts look like normal discussion. If your goal was to say we need to punish that, even with a rule change we'd likely not do that. In fact, your experiment was so successful that we actually assumed you were a re-reg troll from the start. We asked for an alt-check on October the 2nd and while it did align your account with a fairly innocent poster, there's no rules against having an alt if you are not evading a permaban. So, I guess good job on trolling within the rules. Hey if you want to keep doing that, go for it. I'm sure Jeff appreciates the extra tenbux. Mellow Seas posted:Here’s what they actually posted, draw your own conclusions: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3965530&userid=228557&perpage=40&pagenumber=1 Yeah, basically this. Which of these posts is truly offensive? CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Oct 24, 2021 |
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Oct 24, 2021 17:21
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Skyl3lazer posted:The fact this was probated for "doubl[ing] down on your sick beliefs" is absolutely the reason you shouldn't be a mod CommieGIR. Tons of people, even in the QCS thread, have given perfectly reasonable positions that you for some reason don't want to accept as within your overton window. Rather than engaging with posters that don't follow your mainstream (even if their posts seem targeted at annoying you!) you immediately rush to the mod buttons. This is exactly the behavior that makes me avoid D&D most of the time now, since who the gently caress knows what opinion you'll decide is sick and ding people for. Ah yes, the "Mass Incarceration and forced integration is not Genocide" excuse. If you really want to defend that, go for it, but honestly I don't see a D&D or even a Political Forum where defending that is going to be acceptable or encouraged.
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Oct 26, 2021 14:00
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Skyl3lazer posted:Honestly I'm not going to go in to it here because you'll end up finding some reason to probate me, but the fact that the AP and whitehouse have both stopped calling it a genocide probably means the issue isn't as cut and dry as you want it to be. The Whitehouse is also not calling the mass incarceration at the border genocide, but effectively that is what is happening. Are you guys really going to define everything by whether or not the White House calls it that, or based on what it actually appears to be? And as for the AP: https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-news-international-news-weekend-reads-china-health-269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c  Hmmmmm, sure let's not use the word genocide, but this is literally a crime against humanity that aligns WITH genocide.
CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 14:09 on Oct 26, 2021 |
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Oct 26, 2021 14:06
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Nobody is saying that mass detentions aren't happening. They're saying the coverage is slanted to exacerbate the domestic issues of their new cold war opponents. There's a very long history of deceptive western media coverage of communist-party controlled countries like Cuba and Vietnam and the USSR. "The Mass Detentions are happening, but its a media slant" https://www.bellingcat.com/news/rest-of-world/2019/04/05/are-historic-mosques-in-xinjiang-being-destroyed/ https://www.npr.org/2021/10/24/1047054983/china-muslims-sinicization So, here's the thing: Either you are arguing that open source intelligence is wrong, and we are not witnessing a cultural genocide through mass incarceration, re-education under a prison environment while the PRC wipes out religious sites. So, in other words: You are moving the goal posts. If the US was doing this, would you be outraged? I'd be willing to bet yes. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 14:18 on Oct 26, 2021 |
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Oct 26, 2021 14:14
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:My only advice is to clean house with the current mod crew and to also end the nonsense of shutting down any discussion of US News in the US News thread by telling people to take it to a containment thread whenever it's a topic that makes the mods uncomfortable. This is a loving hot take: USNews is a single threaded discussion that generally strays off topic. Some topics are strong enough to be moved to their own threads, and many of those threads are very successful. The idea that it makes "Mods uncomfortable" a loving stupid take. By this logic, every subforum should be one single discussion with hundreds of sub-discussions, which doesn't work. Reddit can do this because Reddit has a collapsible tree style forum. We do not. Unless your suggestion is that every topic should be allowed to just go off topic non-stop is laughable. Skyl3lazer posted:Nah it's really not worth it considering I like posting in other forums too. Eating a probe here because I get mass reported for saying, for example, that Fancy Pelosi was an obvious troll and gimmick, makes me unable to talk about, idk, cool magic cards I have. So honestly? I'd rather post about the cool magic cards than try to engage with people who don't want to engage, they want to be right all the time and be told they're very smart for being just so correct on everything (Especially when those people are mods). You got probed for it once. And it was a sixer. That's all it took for you to snap? How long have you been on somethingawful? CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Oct 26, 2021 |
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Oct 26, 2021 14:22
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Cpt_Obvious posted:You're the one setting new goal posts here, and now you've just made another one with the cultural thing. My position has never shifted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_genocide quote:Cultural genocide or cultural cleansing is a concept which was proposed by lawyer Raphael Lemkin in 1944 as a component of genocide.[1] Though the precise definition of cultural genocide remains contested, the Armenian Genocide Museum defines it as "acts and measures undertaken to destroy nations' or ethnic groups' culture through spiritual, national, and cultural destruction And what is it the Mass Incarcerations of a specific subsect is being used for in China? quote:The Uyghur genocide in China. Some one million members of China's Muslim Uyghur minority have been detained in mass detention camps, termed "reeducation camps," which are aimed at changing the political thinking of detainees, their identities, and their religious beliefs.[41] Satellite evidence suggests that China has also razed more than two dozen Uyghur Muslim religious sites to the ground.[
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Oct 26, 2021 14:27
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:Thank you for responding. If you have a response to the first half of my post, I would be curious to hear that too. Since your entire post was framed around "They are suppressing opinions by spinning threads of USNews" what exactly would I need to say about the first half? I've been clear: If I get demoded, great. If we get better mods, awesome. If we change the rules, fantastic. My entire psyche is not tied to being a mod on Somethingawful.
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Oct 26, 2021 14:32
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Mischievous Mink posted:We should get mods who think rape apology deserves more than a sixer, and demod anyone who thinks a sixer is sufficient for such a post. Oh no I made a mistake once, my entire world comes unraveled. They should've been probed for longer, but unless you are suggesting we dig through the history and start assigning heavier probations to past probes, good luck with that. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 26, 2021 14:36
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Mischievous Mink posted:It's your consistent policy, not a one time thing lol. On this very page someone posted who you gave a sixer an exact month ago for it, and they're still here. You're so goddamn fragile. So, you are saying you are pro-forumban without ramping. Got it. Thanks for the feedback.
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Oct 26, 2021 14:40
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Mischievous Mink posted:Ban+30 every post that has rape apology, quit putting words in my mouth you dumb gently caress. Forumbans are stupid. You aren't listening and you never have. More reason you shouldn't have buttons lol. Cool, we'll take that up with an admin. And maybe that will happen. But given when the DMZ thread was opened, the constant accusal was "Everyone in D&D or supporting the Democratic Party is a rape apologist" we have to define what the red line for ban+30 will be? CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Oct 26, 2021 |
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Oct 26, 2021 14:44
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Jimong5 posted:lol That's called Whataboutism. And I don't think anybody was defending the US's outright Islamaphobic war.
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Oct 26, 2021 14:49
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Is anybody not in agreement that the mass incarceration of black Americans is basically genocide? I mean given that the US Justice system in general is steeped in White Supremacy oriented towards doing oppressive, genocide like things?Jimong5 posted:How about I'll care about what the Chinese are up to after we stop the far more monstrous policies of the county I live in and have a vote for? Is that genocide denial? Caring about it, sure. Whether or not it IS by definition, genocide, is another. Nobody is saying you personally have to do anything about it (you can't).
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Oct 26, 2021 14:59
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30.5 Days posted:Regardless of my opinion on the subject, lots of people do not agree that the united states government is currently engaging in genocide, and I do not believe most people would consider that to be a bannable statement in D&D. Well then maybe that is something that needs to change. This discussion helped. Thank you.
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Oct 26, 2021 15:01
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I think the big problem is how do we discuss the context of various states crimes against humanities within the context of a single thread: I.e. the derailment that both Canada's genocide against native children and China's mass incarceration caused in those threads. Because despite the need to discuss these things, in the context of discussing the ongoing political issues of each state is going to get easily drowned out by it. Much like the ACAB discussion in USNews easily drowned out any day to day USNews happenings. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Oct 26, 2021 |
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Oct 26, 2021 15:12
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Skyl3lazer posted:Why does it have to be a single thread? If these are complicated questions, why not give them space to breath? This is exactly the type of stuff I mean when I say the solutions to D&D's problems lie outside of the current mod team. How? Open to suggestions for me and/or future mod teams. Most people don't want to dig through a thread to find the single topic they were trying to discuss, that's part of why we split out topics in USNews (since D&D is for the most part US Centric)
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Oct 26, 2021 15:16
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Sedisp posted:Why not just have a timeout on the topic temporarily if it really is overriding all conversation for X amount of time instead of shunting the topic off to die? Most of the threads didn't die though? The Afghanistan thread and Police threads were very active for a long time. A timeout sounds cool, but how would you do it? Set a topic timer and link in the op?
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Oct 26, 2021 15:19
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Fancy Pelosi posted:Just a reminder that we aren't supposed to respond directly to other posters in this thread, because the mods don't want it to devolve into a slapfight. Frankly I feel opening it up has helped, we got a lot of good feedback in the first 6 pages, now I think discussion is more warranted and it seems like most other posters agree. Worth noting that they had already updated the rules removing the single post rule prior to this. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Oct 26, 2021 |
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Oct 26, 2021 15:28
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ram dass in hell posted:"Whataboutism" is an imperialist propaganda term deployed by the US government to avoid discussion of its many crimes, so yes, you are defending the US every single time you utter it. How is this relevant to forum feedback? Why are you seemingly unable to engage with the community you oversee without this bitchy confrontational tone? Actually it was Soviet if I recall correctly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes
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Oct 26, 2021 15:31
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Lib and let die posted:Yes, Soviet claims of "you have no room to judge what we're doing, clean your own home first" were simply handwaved away by calling it "whataboutism." This is exactly what ram dass is telling you. Ah, gotcha, my bad.
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Oct 26, 2021 15:34
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Mellow Seas posted:e: More generally, CommieGIR also seems to like posting a lot, which is fine, but it's probably better for mods to try not to post in general. I think if you asked CG which he would rather do, he would rather post, which is fine, but maybe not compatible with being a mod - probably better to post basically never (like fos) or only intermittently and in a relatively non-interactive way like GJB. Mods posting, even if they do it reasonably, just seems to get people riled up, and I think it's fair to consider accepting a modsmanship as a semi-retirement from postermanship. Maybe, a good point. I don't know, maybe that needs to be a requirement to be a mod.
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Oct 26, 2021 15:49
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Sarcastr0 posted:I’d like to point out that while this and the QCS thread were super active, USNews became mostly chill and good. Which was part of why the Blow thread was started, the hope was people could work out their anxiety and some of their shitposting in there and it did work, briefly. Then it turned into everyone turning on one another and we had to close it.
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Oct 26, 2021 22:29
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The confusing thing being: Nobody is stopping anyone from making a thread about any of these topics. And stuff like drug/vaping/smoking law has a lot of discussion potential. Why should it be entirely in UsNews?
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Oct 26, 2021 22:36
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Irony.or.Death posted:CG, I do not think you should be participating in moderation of the climate thread in any way. You feel very strongly that nuclear build-out is the only path forward, which is a fine perspective for a regular thread participant to have, but it's led you to a place where you dismiss other similarly unlikely policies (e.g., planned degrowth, literally loving anything else) as "doomer-ism" and your moderation around this issue has had an obvious chilling effect. I speculate that this is probably related to the odd siege mentality you have adopted re: the CSPAM climate thread but I honestly don't know, because I've found it impossible to have a direct and honest conversation with you. Maybe that's true, as someone already said maybe we need to implement a "Mods cannot debate and discuss" policy. I am not going to address the rest of this because I have a personal opinion about it.
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Oct 26, 2021 22:47
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CYBEReris posted:because the discussion is transient and lives in the moment. the new thread might end up being really good! but it's also formally and informally a separate conversation. We can't control that though, but honestly if the argument is "Well, we just have one big general thread that every topic under the sun lives in" that's also not a solution. Not saying I have any answers about that, but splitting threads has worked before.
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Oct 26, 2021 22:49
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silicone thrills posted:I'd say afghanistan was fairly unique and because it is a huge topic it definitely deserves it own thread. But does a topic like "President calls to ban bubble gum flavored vapes" deserve its own full thread? ehhhh there isnt a ton to eek out of that stone. Yeah its worth noticing the Afghanistan thread died almost shortly after the media coverage did  but there's a lot of that stuff, its difficult to tell when a USNews topic of discussion gets off the rails and becomes its own thing. Probably Magic posted:I've had good interactions with CommieGIR over pms for what it's worth. Same. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Oct 26, 2021 |
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Oct 26, 2021 22:56
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30.5 Days posted:The thing about derails is that if other posters start to move on and there's words left unsaid then posters will start their own threads, on their own, without needing to be directed to do so by mods. I would say that getting people to talk about something if they want the thread to talk about it is the bare minimum absolute easiest thing you could do to change the posting culture for the better since it's bog standard IK behavior literally everywhere else in the forums. The problem is that doesn't seem to happen here as often. In fact most of the new threads were made by mods it seems like. Like I said: Its weird that nobody feels like they can open their own threads here.
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Oct 26, 2021 23:07
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LGD posted:Why would that be at all weird? D&D is widely perceived as having mods who are heavy handed, capricious, ideologically driven, and serve the preferences of a subset of regulars who are keen to mass-report anything they don't like. Starting a thread is a much more attention-getting and "serious" undertaking than mere posting (can't autoban with a post!), so it should be no surprise that people are disinclined to start new threads. Meanwhile, most threads started by mods are not actually a natural result of a conversation hitting enough critical mass to deserve a spinoff, but because mods feel they need to intervene to remove a derail (the precise motivations are left as an exercise for the reader). Indeed, the very fact that the mods so frequently intervene (relative to other forums) in the most-read threads to dictate how conversations should be "properly" sequestered in fact almost certainly heavily reinforces those impressions/tendencies. And how do we fix it? We've already taken away that: Yes, we need to be more hands off. We're agreed there.
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Oct 26, 2021 23:29
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Yeah, please start making new threads monthly for US News. Also not a bad idea at all. If I recall, doesn't UK and a couple other regional threads do seasonal/monthly threads? e: Yes they do.
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Oct 26, 2021 23:41
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Cease to Hope posted:That's just being a hostile dickhead, which should get people probed. A petty list of banned words is not the right solution to the problem of aggro posting. Also its more hands on, when the consensus is: Hands off, mods. I think with insults like that, we gotta take it contextually. Granted, I don't think demonRAT, chud, tankie, etc. really is a sign a conversation or discussion is going well.
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Oct 26, 2021 23:57
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Raenir Salazar posted:A Excel spreadsheet that's like the Postinomicon/Adminomicon/Modinomicon(??? Still workshopping this) that's like a central compedium of modmin notes on problematic users, current thread/forum bans, and perhaps an automated tool like a spreadsheet formula to track ramps and probes would be a useful tool. You are vastly overthink what is available to us.
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Oct 27, 2021 00:34
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Jazerus posted:hi i don't have much to say about d&d that i haven't already said in the QCS thread but i want to dispute this "You are all a bunch of rape apologists" just ain't the quality posting Who knows what the weekend will bring.
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Oct 27, 2021 02:42
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Cloaked posted:Right now it’d just be another thread where D&D meta is discussed, which right now will inevitably lead to bad moderator actions, which will appropriately upset people, so maybe not a great idea. Did that thread even start with a topic other than “let’s mock cspam”? It didn’t seem like good framing for chill chat. No, the goal was not mock cspam. Not only is riling up cross forums drama something we actively try to avoid, it doesn't make any sense to do. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Oct 27, 2021 |
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Oct 27, 2021 02:59
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Nucleic Acids posted:You also still posted rape apologia about Tara Reade. You directly, literally did that. Let's not start that up here, thanks.
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Oct 27, 2021 03:18
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A big flaming stink posted:are you ever gonna deal with the fact that you gave him a slap on the wrist for some absolutely disgusting actions and words? Are you going to take action that redresses that? at all? No, and this thread isn't the re-litigate probes thread. And your inability to expect mods to be fallible humans who make mistakes is interesting. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Oct 27, 2021 |
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Oct 27, 2021 03:54
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That is thoroughly impressive.
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Oct 27, 2021 04:13
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