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Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

fart simpson posted:

anyone test out the new windows subsystem for linux supporting linux applications with a gui on windows 11?

i use it a fair bit, it's pretty good but has some annoying bugs (e.g. window focus has some strange behaviours at times, and in a new window a key sometimes acts as held down until pressed again). my impression that anything wayland works great, but xwayland brings dune of these issues. it is fast and pretty transparent though, so optimistic that a few bugfixes and it'll be real good.

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Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

Pile Of Garbage posted:

just been trying out WSLg on Win11 and it's neat as heck. ofc i can't think of any linux GUI apps that i actually want to run sooooooo

most importantly makes it less maddening to do cuda on windows

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

The_Franz posted:

https://twitter.com/accursedfarms/status/1494479783408852992?s=20&t=OCkVZL6gELZvkBYFqm8qZQ

so is this another one of those things they are going to furiously backpedal on in a week or so?

i doubt it, for 99.95% of people the option of not registering a microsoft account is a trap choice, probably just as well to get the remaining 0.05% onto gentoo or whatever where they'll genuinely be happier.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

Kernel Sanders posted:

isnít this basically osx + appleid ?

pretty much yeah, makes sense to do since it simplifies and standarizes managing passwords (including online resets) and keys and such related to your account. e.g. there was a long bitlocker recovery key discussion in the security thread which largely circled around the fallback behaviors from not having a microsoft account. i get that some people consider it a freedom thing to not have a microsoft account, but they are still accepting all the related licenses and eulas installing windows, so i do think they'd be happier just going on some suitable linux if they really worry about it.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

i mean, generally i cannot imagine a situation where "oh yeah, install windows 11, just don't create a microsoft account" doesn't add up to awful advice. microsoft has a lot of nonsense going on in windows 10/11, all very legit to be upset about and switch away over, but given that you don't escape that poo poo anyway local accounts were already bordering on a misfeature and it'd for sure only get worse over time.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

mystes posted:

What advantage do you see for normal users to log in via a microsoft account?

password recovery options a normal person can use, support for the whole windows hello infrastructure (e.g. biometrics and so on), there not being weird traps with turning on bitlocker, and over time, more and more poo poo that'll expect functionality like onedrive since 99% of users do have it. plus of course a bunch of stuff more clearly straddling the line of being os functionality and account stuff, like find my device.

most of which microsoft could fix if they really worked at it, but then it'd be a secondary set of functionality seeing very little use, and even with decent effort put in (which they wouldn't) it'd no doubt turn out buggy and harder to get support for.

i'd also view it as an upside that people then stop lying to themselves about running windows 11 while retaining some extra privacy thanks to not creating an account.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

mystes posted:

They shouldn't force you to use stuff like onedrive (honestly they're clearly moving back to illegal bundling territory) and again... you don't necessarily password recovery or biometrics for a computer that's just sitting in your home if you just... don't set a password on it. It's more secure to have a password, but for a lot of people the risk of someone breaking into their home and stealing their computer is at the bottom of their concerns.

this is, however, getting weighed against the advantages of local accounts: nothing whatsoever.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

mystes posted:

I just said several times that the advantage if you use a local account is that you can just not have a password set for non-technical users on computers that never leave their homes.

There's also no online account to get stolen/hacked.

i struggle, to say the least, to accept the ability to not set a password as an advantage.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

02B6C4 posted:

i'm not looking forward to sharing a security boundary with microsoft and their spaghetti backend to authenticate to my home PC

spying on what processes i launch and what i click on is different than handling auth tokens

this was probably inevitable, it just sucks imo and users gonna thrash about changes

microsoft has been able to remotely push and run arbitrary code on your computer for 20 years.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

02B6C4 posted:

outside of windows update, which can be controlled with gpo / sccm? legit asking

especially if you don't update your os, since then your security boundary is everyone on the internet, which pretty trivially includes microsoft.

have you considered ubuntu?

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

the risk that an average computer user will say "that's me!", then enable bitlocker, change a firewall setting because mod nexus forums told them so, and finally take their laptop to the coffee shop that very afternoon.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

02B6C4 posted:

proton doesn't work well with DRM heavy games

yeah, but hopefully keeps improving. to be clear i absolutely detest the way microsoft is messing about on the privacy front on windows, but requiring an account is not from my perspective the big issue there. given proper guarantees it actually mostly makes sense.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

just commit to the bit and wring your hands about people without an internet connection

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

Archduke Frantz Fanon posted:

is w11 still garbage?

yep. well, it is ok (obv. would not make my top 10 of concerns in my life in 2022), just strictly worse than 10, which is real dumb.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

mystes posted:

Lol

Love to pay Microsoft $9/month for cloud file storage when I already have 1TB from o365

I can't wait to sign up for a monthly Microsoft Paint cloud subscription to unlock the eraser tool

kind of doubt that is the pay structure it'll have, it is a screenshot of the clipchamp website which hasn't been changed since microsoft bought them a couple of months back.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

Happy_Misanthrope posted:

It's a screenshot of what you see when you click the Upgrade button (which you need to do if you want to export a video higher than 480p). In the app. It was installed to my Win11 system, which is not in the Insiders branch.

oho, i stand corrected, but also really doubt that'll stick.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

Gentle Autist posted:

i like to use a mac

low energy even for your long history of low energy yosposting

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

yeah, hard to imagine anyone showing up to defend sharepoint, in the era of 365 especially. skype for business levels of bad.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

dioxazine posted:

i'm still convinced that skype was intentionally bought and deprecated in favour of teams

i think you may be ascribing (and yourself applying) more thought to the whole process than actually happened at microsoft.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

mystes posted:

I have some bad news about all the o365 business products for you

i am pretty sure you don't

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

mystes posted:

they're all sharepoint, op

nah, it is still lurking to some extent, but once you're off the on-prem stuff it is rapidly receding from relevance.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

Last Chance posted:

lol skype was bought by MS in 2011. teams released in what.. 2017? no way they were thinking that far ahead.

slack and discord came out somewhere in between and ms has been trying to catch up to them ever since

"trying" is kind of a weird word to use, the thing about teams is that i don't think anyone likes it nearly as much as slack, but kind of obviously it gets way more use as people are basically forced onto it by orgs. even within yospos i'm pretty sure more people are on teams than slack for work etc. by now.

hard to compare numbers, but even in 2020 the active user claims had teams with like 3x the users.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

Cold on a Cob posted:

i seriously doubt anybody would try to write a third party teams client

issue might be that anyone who tries would instantly be better at it than the teams team. (*still* a vast improvement on sfb).

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

Perplx posted:

what was dumb was the 3D Objects folder in windows 10, which they actually removed in 11

the fun kind of dumb though, a strange flight of fancy that somehow wound up on hundreds of millions of computers for a bit

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

for those curious about when microsoft are going to fix the bunch of multi-monitor/dpi regressions 11 stupidly introduced i can report from an insider build (which i installed entirely because i was fed up with these issues) that they've decided to instead make them worse.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

qirex posted:

windows has been bad at multiple monitors for so long it must be intentional

nah, 10 was perfectly fine, even dpi stuff had mostly been fixed up. but seems that was to be only for that one fleeting version.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

carry on then posted:

what's broken, because they fixed windows not remembering where to go when a monitor turns off and on again

i mean, i can't really know to what extent this is my setup, but i've certainly made every effort to fix it, but it does quite the opposite for me. i.e. places windows on the turned off monitor, until i turn it on, when it moves all the windows to another one. it seems generally confused about which monitor is which in some way, including dpi issues, fullscreening a window onto a monitor different from which it was on, sometimes seemingly confusing which monitor had which dpi, etc.

i mean, hopefully i'm the only one with this particular breakage, but as i am getting no other advantage from 11 i am very comfortable calling it garbage for this regression.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005


agreed, all we need to do now is make the final product paper too, taking computers entirely out of the loop.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

oh hell yeah, microsoft apparently replacing outlook with an electron thing, one of those cases where that will likely be vastly superior to the "fat" app

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

i use it too, but don't like it as much as shaggar. for some reason it does multiple languages (spell check etc.) differently and worse than all other modern apps, and it for some reason also craps out accessing my one imap account now and then. so cautiously optimistic they get it more right with the electron one

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

i maintained a plugin bridge to do quant stuff from excel (and several applications basically being transcripts of the quant-built spreadsheets into something more long-term maintainable) a lot in a past life. part of where i got my continuing respect for excel as a tool from.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

it is a very good development. when on windows i spend half my time in wsl, when on linux i spend half my time in microsoft applications v:shobon:v

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

while true it is hard to deny that ibm is the real open source powerhouse, no one does more.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

akadajet posted:

I did not know that.

gnome getting renamed Lotus Visual Desktop next release fyi

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

Beeftweeter posted:

i have been legit surprised by how much crap intel has released lately actually

intel has always been genuinely great on open standards and open source. look back to usb for a lot of really heavy lifting from intel, both in open specifications, hardware implementations released for free, and support for the linux implementation. and that was at a time where they were extremely dominant, and smaller competitors pushed weird proprietary stuff.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

mystes posted:

PowerShell is kind of "Awful Taste But Great Execution" of a .net unix shell

yeah. i have never enjoyed using it but still think it is a real good take on this stuff. i can specifically imagine that it is extremely well suited to one of its purposes, being the platform for little commandline dsl's for like exchange and azure,

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

Kazinsal posted:

I read this as some kind of wonderful, terrifying DEC/Microsoft hybrid monstrosity and now I want it

windows nt already is that dec/microsoft hybrid

e: also everyone admitting to using non-wsl gcc on windows in 2022 is a disgusting deviant

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005


i think they are just a lts for "business" and a rapidly updated one for consumers (at least i've never spotted an actual difference), but the fact that they are almost the same makes it doubly annoying if you find yourself using both.

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

pretty sure sign your over the hill if you think office overall counts as bloated in 2022. launch every office app at once and 50% of the memory will be used by teams alone.

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Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

Beeftweeter posted:

the office web apps are actually pretty needs suiting for most use cases. it's mildly impressive they didn't gently caress it up horrifyingly badly

pfft, the office team invented the modern web, introducing ajax to make outlook on the web work

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