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Bifauxnen posted:Not even after yesterday when she was waffling a lot and helping Grandi line up Deadmeat with night action poo poo? If you know of another way I could try and case Dead for, I'd like to hear it. Dude's all night action poo poo, he doesn't usually give reads, and when he does, he's usually short and concise. I have scummed with him - and when that happened, he got caught on a confused night claim. If by "waffling a lot" you mean I made a post with reads, clarified the one on Mae when asked (god that was some awful paragraph I wrote, too), then voted the dude I had a "possibly scum" read on, I think there's a good amount of misrepresentation going on on your part.
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Dec 2, 2021 09:08
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| # ¿ Apr 27, 2024 07:15 |
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Dexanth posted:##Vote Grandi This was happening last day. Dead had four votes and no pushback, I had... one? I am iffy on vote timing because it all happens at the same time to me, I read it when I wake up and then there's a lot of content and zero context, so feel free to correct me. Sandicap posted:I'm down for a Tobbs or Shell switch. So, if the "Shell and Grandi are scummates" theory is correct, Grandi here was trying to pull out votes from a town lunch into a scummate lunch? I got a bit of heat yesterday, but I was nowhere near to being the lunch objective, and I wouldn't have been, hadn't this pull materialized. How does that make sense at all?
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Dec 2, 2021 09:26
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Bifauxnen posted:Considering he was town it would've been allowed to just NOT case him, yknow? This is a weird statement. Your second paragraph actually answers your first paragraph here. Of course it'd have been way better to not case him, since he was town. But, you know? That line of thought requires knowing he was town to start with. Which I didn't. Also, I don't expect anyone but scum to know both mine and Grandi's status. Hell, I don't know his, apart from my reads. That's why I brought a line of reasoning here, one that doesn't require knowing either of our alignments.
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Dec 2, 2021 11:14
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Sure. Take this as an update of last day's reads, because I was pretty clear on them yesterday, I think. Grandi reads to me as a bit defensive or exhasperated in tone. The defensiveness is easy to understand, since he's being questioned, although I've definitely perceived him as defensive at other points in the game. The exasperation, at this point, I'll buy as more town than scum leaning, since we're pretty close to losing. Sandicap posted:It's not helping that I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall. This gave me a chuckle in how honestly frustrated it sounded. Your case doesn't fit, why would that be? Apart from that, I don't think ScumGrandi would give a rat's tail about forcing facts into his case. If you're going to fake a case, you don't care it sounds odd, it's fake to begin with! Let town deal with that, lol. Sandicap posted:I'm down for a Tobbs or Shell switch. Forcing a switch from town into town? Why. Or forcing a switch from town into scum? Again, why. Sandicap posted:And I think that was the first mention of loved, but yeah, Hal is loved now, I attempted to give it to Tom and he intercepted it. Not sure why so much mystery around the loved thing, tbh, I thought it was something worse. But eh. Pretty neutral on that, as someone else pointed out - it doesn't give you town cred one way or the other. I thought his first vote on Dead was strange - Dead had claimed to repair things, not recharge one-shot abilities. There are definitely some questions I still have around Grandi. However, his actions on a whole still read to me as town, even as pretty frustrated town, which given where we stand in the game, well. Can I be wrong? Of course, and it wouldn't even been the first time ScumGrandi fools me (nor the worst!). But that's my read, and that's where I stand now.
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Dec 2, 2021 12:36
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Bifauxnen posted:Hal you're still voting Dex, do you still think Dex is scummy? Bifauxnen posted:And you think he is townie because..... Bifauxnen posted:Not sure why you still got Shell in your towniest category though Dex Bifauxnen posted:Hm, really? Good enough to back off him at least for now? Well wake me up if there's a massclaim later. Bifauxnen posted:Not even after yesterday when she was waffling a lot and helping Grandi line up Deadmeat with night action poo poo? Bifauxnen posted:Presumably you are also town who also feels suspicious of Grandi though. There's something that caught my eye - you seem to have spent a good amount of time this game trying to get other people to call players scummy. What's that? If you think someone's scummy, case or question them. This kind of play really stinks of scum backseating reads.
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Dec 2, 2021 12:59
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Bifauxnen posted:Like God that last Shell post was so cherrypicky Of course I do! I have been saying that since yesterday. Actually had the read way before, but it was kinda tied to you cheerleading Toal on me, so when Toal came out as town, I stopped believing in it. But no, you didn't really change much. You think I am scum - fair. You haven't done a lick to convince anyone else, except for pointing at one or another post of mine and going "hey, that sounded scummy, she may be scum". Which I can buy as a puntual thing. When it couples when you asking other people to case me, while not offering any arguments of your own, yeah. That goes over "wanting to know other people's opinions" into "throwing some shade on her, just in case I need to move people to vote her later". It's noncommitant, because when I flip, and I flip town (surprise!) then you can wash your hands, because you just had that feeling but the cases were all other people. So, yeah. I think you are scum.
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Dec 2, 2021 14:13
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Bifauxnen posted:LAST MINUTE SWING ONTO SHELL OR GRANDI LET'S GO CMOOOOOON Bifauxnen posted:To Mafia Dad for a minute here, scum pushing a switch from town to town is awesome for them, cause then everyone prolly goes "oh man how did we choose wrong and let that other guy get away?!?" and there you go you got another mislunch all ready. Also, you somehow just cleared one of the doubts I had on you today - the vote switcher wasn't just Grandi, and that was making me second-guess you, too.
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Dec 2, 2021 14:41
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Hal Insandenza posted:Yeah I dunno pulling 5 posts out at random where bif tries to make people give more reads isn't really much of anything, kind of a weird post and I don't even get what you are trying to convey about bif. What I am trying to say it's that those posts don't look to me like town trying to pull more reads. They are almost all worded the other way, they're trying to get people to agree that someone's scummy. Which is a good way to make other people responsible for lunching them, and one that's awfully convenient if they end up being town. Hal Insandenza posted:This is interesting because I swapped with you last night and the report I got back was that no one used any powers on either of us. Well, that IS interesting. I got a "your action failed" message as the only explanation. If you swapped with me, neither of us got blocked? Hm. Not sure what that would mean, tbh.
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Dec 2, 2021 15:24
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Hal Insandenza posted:I am still on the fence about grandi but these points are also weird! Of course scum will care if their case looks fake and made up, that is how they get caught being scum! As far as the switch thing, that is a little less clear cut, especially the switch from town to scum, but if you think deadmeat will be easily gotten back to the next day sure it is worth it to force a last minute switch to another town so you have a safe landing place back on deadmeat the next day. These are like insane things scum would never do or anything Yeah, I do actually agree on the swapping town targets thing. It boggled my mind a bit when it happened, which was why I mentioned it, but you both are right on that it doesn't really tell much.
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Dec 2, 2021 15:31
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Bifauxnen posted:Also,lol at this Sure, I can vote you. That doesn't affect the argument, I 've been pretty clear on what I think and why, and we are at the start of the day. We're not no-lunching. Dexanth posted:I would like more people to comment on Tom's Circl case cause that feels fairly compelling to me Tom's case does feel solid. Trouble is, I personally have a hard time with making what I have seen Circlr do as scum fit with how Circlr is playing here. It's a meta barrier, and probably stupid, but it is there. I am not opposed at all to us exploring that case, especially not to hearing from Circlr himself.
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Dec 2, 2021 16:56
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Bifauxnen posted:What does Circl do as scum Lurk to mod-warning levels, IIRC. And post nervous one-liners when he posts. Though I am re-checking USSR and hm, maybe I'm mistaken here and he is a bit more talkative than I gave him credit for. Ok, interested on where that's heading now.
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Dec 2, 2021 17:07
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Maerlyn posted:Yes but Circl wouldn't know this, he hasn't been a recipient to date. Think Hal explained it, but I'll try to sum up. Suppose I was blocked: a) blocking Hal, if he was the source of my block, is a strange choice, because he'll jump onto someone and probably pass the block around. b) blocking me, as someone who was actually voted that night, would make sense, that's what I actually assumed happened at first. But then, Hal jumped onto me with no issues, and as per what he said, he saw nothing being used on either him or me. So, hm. I think that the easiest explanation here is that the block went on on your end. You are handing BPs, after all, so maybe that was the aim, but... yours is not a night action, is it?
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Dec 2, 2021 18:28
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Hal Insandenza posted:Can’t redirect the BP according the people who allegedly have gotten one since it isn’t a night action Yep, this. My BP came in EOD, no way that was a night action.
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Dec 2, 2021 18:29
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Bifauxnen posted:How about her comments on Circl and how she responded when I asked her to elaborate on what she meant by "how Circl acts as scum" and she was all "hm well uh actually... Oh hey I just immediately went to go delve into the details this past game to compare and maybe I'm not so sure after all????" Yep, you're right and I was wrong here. Tom's case had actually made me think before, but I had pegged ScumCirclr as acting on a very specific way, which I wasn't seeing here, and which had me have him as solid town. Juggling my memory here was actually a good move, because I actually went to check the only game I have played with him as scum, and I found out I was misremembering poo poo - he was a very infrequent poster, but he wasn't so laconic as I thought. So, there may actually be something in there I was not seeing, good, thank you. If that was an attempt of a gotcha, still, thank you.
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Dec 2, 2021 19:04
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Hal Insandenza posted:Yeah it's also weird that grandi completely dismisses that shell would say she was blocked so she didn't have to account for an item she gave out when she was instead doing something else (like killing) I have given items every night, and calling attention to it/having the recipients verify. If I intended on foregoing it for the NK, why would I loudly announce I failed my night action anyway? It makes me shady all the same, but (if it happened as you say) hiding that no item went around, or going "eh I handed it out, no idea what happened to it" is way easier than just coming out and saying I didn't give out an item.
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Dec 2, 2021 19:17
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Hal Insandenza posted:Well because you have been so open about it the expectation is you would say who you gave it to again, so you either have to say who you gave an item to and risk someone like me or another watcher-type saying well gee that doesn't seem to have happened or say you were blocked then there is no fake item in play to leave a trail back to you lying, Do you think I'd have been so open about it, had there been the possibility of me having to do something else instead (like killing) and risk being out of a justification for that night even if no blocks/watchers were around?
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Dec 2, 2021 19:34
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Hal Insandenza posted:I mean yeah what else could you do, obviously you were going to be asked about it why wouldn’t you get ahead of it? Why was RF freely claiming what he did when he was under no pressure to claim yet. It always sounds better to come out with stuff as soon as possible. Difference is that Retro had no-one to verify his claims. I've been handing out tracking/watching stuff to (people I thought were) town, including you. If yoy're going to say there is probably a ninja, I do agree, it makes sense with so many watchers around and none having seen a thing. But if there is a ninja, it's not me - I've been consistently handing things in days the killer has gone unobserved. So you'd need to posit that I forego giving an item for the kill, after peppering the game with observer items, and risking myself or my objective being watched or tracked by my own stuff, not to mention asked why the item went missing this night.
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Dec 2, 2021 19:54
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Hal Insandenza posted:I feel like you are going all over the place giving reasons why grandi should have just assumed you were not lying. I’m saying if you don’t know anyones alignment among me you and Tobbs when analyzing the discrepancy it’s strange that grandi would say you aren’t even worth considering What? I am justifying my actions, because you asked me - I have no idea why Grandi would or wouldn't assume I am telling the truth here. If you want Grandi to justify himself, you are asking the wrong person.
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Dec 2, 2021 20:13
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Bifauxnen posted:Hey Shell who scum, is it just me rn Other than wanting to look at the Circlr thing, yeah, if you want my scumreads to have changed in so little time since yesterday you're not getting much. Tobbs still odd, you still scum. The rest? Hal's claiming an action that I think he has no reason to lie about (unless he is scum and trying to nail me or something), Dex hasn't posted that much to make me reconsider her, Grandi I read earlier, Tom still very very town. Mae is there, still think her actions speak louder than her words.
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Dec 2, 2021 20:26
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This being said, I forego things going this way since I saw the failed action this morning. Blocking a verifiable action is a great way to get the missing kill pinned on someone. I've said all I can about my night actions and thoughts, the rest I ignore. I think that, with the missing kill, town can still afford a mislunch here. If things go downhill we are doomed, but we have wrangled a bit of a margin. And unlike Dead's flip, I expect mine will prove way way more informative. So, should it come up, I'm not even going to oppose it. I prefer lunching scum, but, eh. I'll take it.
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Dec 2, 2021 20:32
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Bifauxnen posted:I do think it's extremely likely Shell and Grandi are just both scum together, but Shell has independently scummy points of her own. Lol, Bif. The day I care about winning a game is the day you all should really lunch me. There's no appeal to emotion that can be made there. I've said all I can about the night bingo stuff, and there's something that I cannot justify - I failed, so I am without any alibi. I can go off a tangent and say Hal's lying, but I really don't think that's what happened. If the scumteam is looking to frame me it'd have taken at least two of them, and I am not really worth the effort after being almost lunch yesterday. So, the only thing I can say is that there should be an unclaimed blocker around, who either targeted me or Mae, but at this point I don't expect whoever it was to actually claim, so the point is moot. The rest of your points are "what she did here sounded fake". Fair enough, so what do you expect me to do against that? I've come open with what I have, and I am not going to tangle myself into "but I said/but you said/but I thought/but you thought" stuff. I don't really have the time or the mental energy to fight a completely subjective case. It's funny that you say I should be panicking - was I panicking, you'd sell it as "look, she's panicking caught scum". Again, I cannot win that one. So, not trying. Also, trying to draw connections to people who are reluctant to vote me, or who aren't going out of their way to point how much of a scum I am, as if not voting me was scummy, is kinda funny when I am still unflipped. You can and should totally do that, but maybe you should wait for my flip? Or are you worried it's not going to be what you need it to be for that maneouver to work? What I am trying to say is, here I am. I'll be your free lunch at EoD should nobody else arise, so you don't have to worry there. I ain't fighting. So, if you are town, maybe you'd want the other cases to have a bit of a breathing space to be heard, you've made so much of a ruckus about me that everything else is falling by the wayside. If you really are scum, don't worry, you got your lunch.
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Dec 3, 2021 07:21
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Maerlyn posted:I was going to respond to Bif's post but I did want to ask Shell, who did you boon on N4? Tried to boon Hal, but he jumped onto Tom, so Tom got a duplicate of an item he already had.
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Dec 3, 2021 07:57
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Maerlyn posted:A lot of the reason why I feel like Shell is town is based on meta/gut so it's hard to NOT lean into that. Bif does have a point about the vote though, if Shell thinks Bif is scum I don't know why she wouldn't have put her vote down yet (she tends to wait until closer to deadline I've noticed in this game or it's like her final action for the game day before she goes to bed). Not really sure why me voting or not voting right now is even a point, given that half the game wasn't voting anyway until, like, three messages ago. But hey, gotta grasp those straws. I'll hold my vote until I see something I want to vote. I wanted a bit more elaboration on Circlr's case before voting or not voting him, which hasn't happened, and at this point Tobbs has become just a "hey, let's vote Tobbs?" thing. Bif would be my vote, but given I am the only one who sees her, I'm not thrasing my vote like that. Don't be confused - I hope my flip doesn't screw with us too much. But since that's where we are heading, anyway, I'm not going to make it easy for scum. I want my flip to be informative, so you'll need to go the full way for it. And I am not voting someone at random just to save my own rear end.
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Dec 3, 2021 19:18
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Tom Tucker posted:Traveling back home today by the way - still not seeing Shell but yeah Shell take a stand and make a vote for goodness sake Alright, you're right, enough of having my head up my rear end. Things aren't going to move much if at all before I leave for the night, so. ##vote Circlr I like the Circlr case. I am not 100% sure on him, but I realized something that kinda irked me, and at this point, it's as good as anything I have. CirclMastr posted:With so much blocking and so many failed actions, I don't think it's fair to assume that Maer has successfully passed out a vest every night or that a vest stopped a kill unless that's claimed. Especially if there's some kind of bus driver that redirects things like the Loved thing. Circlr thought Maer's action was a night action, when the day earlier it was discussed it was not. There is an unclaimed thing blocking the itwm giving to Maer that, per Hal, was not on me. So, supposing Hal's telling the truth (and as I said, I don't think Hal's lying) I'll assume the mixup was on Maer's side. Why would anyone target Maer? She has no night actions to be accounted for, and nobody has admitted to blocking her (nor me, nor Hal) which would be an actually good pro-town move to claim since the NK was absent. Whatever stopped my action was a scum power. So that's what I see, that's where I can stand. I may be wrong, but then again I have been so consistently this game, so. There goes nothing.
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Dec 3, 2021 20:59
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Maerlyn posted:Looking back at Circl I feel more confident here. This instance where Circl just completely changes his read because he's told he won't have to hammer merk (afraid of looking scummy?) Also, lol, somehow missed this vote shenanigan (again, not being around at deadlines kind of sucks). I do agree, this tandem here looks rather bad.
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Dec 3, 2021 21:02
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Dec 4, 2021 07:55
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Well played scums, great game from Bif (as much as it pains me to say it, hahahaha), and a totally deserved victory for Tom, town MVP. See you around!
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Dec 6, 2021 22:37
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