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Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


If I were IA and toal was my scum buddy I'd honestly be aggravated with them for how hard they blew up my game. If toal was scum they would have a more consistent read of their partner, the changes in thought process feel evident in toal's post history. Genuine curiosity is there, toal is someone who has evidently tried to understand this game. RF is not.

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Maerlyn
Jun 29, 2003

Peering deep into a mirror untrue

Somberbrero posted:

I wish you would engage with me a little more, it really feels like you made up your mind a couple days ago. Toal's interactions with IA are not those of a scum teammate.

I feel like you made up your mind too. I was just looking at a post you made where you said IA's flip would play into your thoughts on Toal's alignment but I don't feel like you've really considered Toal anything other than town and I don't know why.

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


Maerlyn posted:

I feel like you made up your mind too. I was just looking at a post you made where you said IA's flip would play into your thoughts on Toal's alignment but I don't feel like you've really considered Toal anything other than town and I don't know why.

I've really really tried to explain my thought process re: toal today and where I disagree from your argument so if we have still not gotten there I don't know that we ever will 😔

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


A part of me wants to vote Toal, I very much want to go with the flow and abdicate responsibility. Toal does sometimes post like a villain. I just feel like I know Toal well enough to say I trust them here. I see how their style makes them suspicious, but the content is there, the scales balance in their favor for me.

Maerlyn
Jun 29, 2003

Peering deep into a mirror untrue

Somberbrero posted:

If I were IA and toal was my scum buddy I'd honestly be aggravated with them for how hard they blew up my game. If toal was scum they would have a more consistent read of their partner, the changes in thought process feel evident in toal's post history. Genuine curiosity is there, toal is someone who has evidently tried to understand this game. RF is not.

I might have missed some posts from you but I disagree that there is curiosity in Toal's posts. I have a stronger theory but I don't have time to dive into it fully right now.

I might be a little more stubborn than usual here but I allowed myself to get talked out of a strong read in monster mash when I was right about scum, and I'm unwilling to accept a "it's just town Toal, shrug?" response...I mean if I'm wrong I'll take that hit but I'd rather have fought for the loss here. I don't think I'm wrong though.

Also has Toal even commented on why they keep changing their vote to RF or Sand other than going with the tide? I'm sure if the argument was there to vote me they'd vote me too.

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


So I see your main point previously as having been that voodoo defended Toal. I ask you why IA simultaneously pushed Toal then. I feel like I have not gotten a response to this point?

Maerlyn
Jun 29, 2003

Peering deep into a mirror untrue

Toalpaz posted:

also mae, I can't control what other players say to me.

flipped scum saying 'yeah toal looks town' doesn't mean anything. They know I'm town, and I can be annoying, so trying to buddy up to me makes sense. I proved time and time again that I was willing to turn on those guys on a dime.

When did I seriously rail against voodoo execution? I promised to execute IA if town produced a watcher and tracker, and then I did. You have sour grapes about being wrong, and won't let it up.

Oh there is a bit about voodoo's execution you must have forgot:

Toalpaz posted:

I don't know, isn't voodoo pointing out that Mae's faking reads?

Mae: vote gave me whiplash

Also Mae: broke the tie onto town

Seems pretty persuasive to me. I'm getting a totally different feel than the disconnected lurky scum voodoo.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


Sandwolf posted:

as soon as his back is against the wall, RF tried the "oh shucks just kill me" but when that didn't pay off he actually started playing for the first time all game. it reads like trying to claw out another day

strong agree here, scum picking up the slack because they have to perform as their team-mates go down is pretty typical.

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


I also pushed against the Voodoo vote v0v

Maerlyn
Jun 29, 2003

Peering deep into a mirror untrue

Somberbrero posted:

So I see your main point previously as having been that voodoo defended Toal. I ask you why IA simultaneously pushed Toal then. I feel like I have not gotten a response to this point?

If I'm thinking of the right post, it wasn't even that much of a push on IA's part, it reads kinda waffley. Voodoo's reply was a kinda cheeky defense saying he didn't think Toal was scum (I think they still shared the same Thunderdome img at the time). Is this the quote?

Idle Amalgam posted:

I feel like plastic might be scum, or toal and plastic are scum and that whole "do my bit to survive" is an overblown reason for voting me when they themselves aren't in danger.

OR plastic is sincere, and toal is bad faith voting me under suspicion of their play.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


Maerlyn posted:

Oh there is a bit about voodoo's execution you must have forgot:

yeah? so scum had a good point on you? what do you want me to say about that.

you, as town, say that a the swap to someone gave you whiplash, when you broke the tie between two players.

Maerlyn
Jun 29, 2003

Peering deep into a mirror untrue

Somberbrero posted:

I also pushed against the Voodoo vote v0v

I know, and you thought I was faking content because I thought you were stepping in for IA.

I don't disagree that RF has looked poor/lazy but I think Toal has looked actively scummy.

Maerlyn
Jun 29, 2003

Peering deep into a mirror untrue

Toalpaz posted:

yeah? so scum had a good point on you? what do you want me to say about that.

you, as town, say that a the swap to someone gave you whiplash, when you broke the tie between two players.

You asked when you disagreed with the voodoo execution, I was reminding you.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


and then I convinced voodoo to vote himself so that I can hammer him, as his scum bud. For credit. 1 hour to deadline.

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact

##vote Toal

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact

Toal telling me what scum wouldnít do is Toal showing frustration that the distancing didnít work.

Vote locked.

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact

Iím not even going to check this thread again until I see a discord notice from the mod that an elimination happened.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


##vote toal

:jerkbag:

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


##vote sandwolf 🤪

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


it is kinda sad to see scum setting me up to look bad and town falling hook line and sinker for it considering the main people on my case are 3 town.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


Toalpaz posted:

it is kinda sad to see scum setting me up to look bad and town falling hook line and sinker for it considering the main people on my case are 3 town.

I'm counting plastic here, not rf.

Maerlyn
Jun 29, 2003

Peering deep into a mirror untrue

So who do you think is scum?

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


also if I wanted to eliminate a toal voter Mae is objectively the superior one. :weary:

The one with the watcher power? who can catch scum? killing plastic and letting mae go is bonkers.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


Maerlyn posted:

So who do you think is scum?

RF? Sandwolf? one of those two?

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo




Mechanically, you should vote yourself Toal itís fine for me.

But practically I think the last scum is one of Rf/Somber and I would be happy to show that 3P can still work with town to win.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


Sandwolf posted:

Mechanically, you should vote yourself Toal itís fine for me.

But practically I think the last scum is one of Rf/Somber and I would be happy to show that 3P can still work with town to win.

its literally impossible with merk throwing a tantrum so whatever

Maerlyn
Jun 29, 2003

Peering deep into a mirror untrue

Toalpaz posted:

also if I wanted to eliminate a toal voter Mae is objectively the superior one. :weary:

The one with the watcher power? who can catch scum? killing plastic and letting mae go is bonkers.

Plastic's a better arguer then me (I remember Beez although I didn't live long) and being a watcher is hard because you have to predict who scum will go for. Also maybe merk's wink wink nudge nudge introduced doubt.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination




one of these things aren't like the others

Maerlyn posted:

Plastic's a better arguer then me (I remember Beez although I didn't live long) and being a watcher is hard because you have to predict who scum will go for. Also maybe merk's wink wink nudge nudge introduced doubt.

when it's between hitting vanilla town and hitting town watcher and both are super into tunneling one player I don't think it's tough math for scum.

Maerlyn
Jun 29, 2003

Peering deep into a mirror untrue

Toal you do love a good gambit, why wouldn't I think you'd try something as scum?

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


i don't think playing in an objectively worse way for not benefit is 'gambit' territory.

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


We're not going to agree today it seems, let's kick it to 3 person lylo and throw the game there instead.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


Somberbrero posted:

We're not going to agree today it seems, let's kick it to 3 person lylo and throw the game there instead.

sandi will kill me first with my self vote, goodbye somber old buddy old friend

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


and don't you all let merk or rf or sandwolf talk you into killing somber, he's been a good egg this game.

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo




A town read on Somber and a scumread on Maerlyn, Toal?? What??

Maerlyn
Jun 29, 2003

Peering deep into a mirror untrue

Does it change lylo math leaving Sand alive or not?

At this point I'll consider it a moral victory if I am right, but I can't force people to see it my way.

Opopanax
Aug 8, 2007

Oh no, not me
We never lost control




Toal putting themselves at -1 with no real fear about it is certainly interesting, especially when the claimed survivor isn't voting for them

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo




I mean, I can if yíall really want but Iím kind of trying to prove a point here. But yes I would rather win than make my point.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


i dont have a scum read on mae rn

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


I'm just disappointed

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Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


the math is technically less bad voting sandwolf rn especially, survivor claim? like what cell is that. Parasyte sell?

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