Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Phobos Anomaly
Jul 23, 2018


Recently I made a (particular) forum post (not on this forum). Someone responded to this post disagreeing with me. My initial reaction was of self-righteous indignation. I'm always right how dare someone disagree with me. The fact I even managed to make my post makes me superior to all other humans.

But after cooling down and actually engaging with the offensive post I realized that this person was just pointing out the negative ramifications of my post. Ramifications that I understand and agree with. So why did I get so irrationally indignant over someone disagreeing with me?

I'm starting to believe that the format of social media forum posting is invoking and amplifying irrational rage. It's easy for oneself to believe they're right about something when you have so many people sharing your belief. This in turn makes it incredibly easy to invoke irrational rage when someone even disagrees with you. I'm always right, so you must be evil if you disagree with me, and the cycle amplifies itself and goes on.

Now I have great respect for C-SPAM posters who are much more smarter and well-informed than I am, so this is probably all very obvious to you all. But if you could expand on this a bit that would be great.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Salt Fish
Sep 11, 2003



Cybernetic Crumb

Phobos Anomaly posted:

Recently I made a (particular) forum post (not on this forum). Someone responded to this post disagreeing with me. My initial reaction was of self-righteous indignation. I'm always right how dare someone disagree with me. The fact I even managed to make my post makes me superior to all other humans.

But after cooling down and actually engaging with the offensive post I realized that this person was just pointing out the negative ramifications of my post. Ramifications that I understand and agree with. So why did I get so irrationally indignant over someone disagreeing with me?

I'm starting to believe that the format of social media forum posting is invoking and amplifying irrational rage. It's easy for oneself to believe they're right about something when you have so many people sharing your belief. This in turn makes it incredibly easy to invoke irrational rage when someone even disagrees with you. I'm always right, so you must be evil if you disagree with me, and the cycle amplifies itself and goes on.

Now I have great respect for C-SPAM posters who are much more smarter and well-informed than I am, so this is probably all very obvious to you all. But if you could expand on this a bit that would be great.
You're wrong.

Brrrmph
Feb 27, 2016

YOSPOS




I like posting in PHIZ. Everyone there only cares about important things and nobody has irrational opinions on something silly like largely irrelevant pop culture. Try it, OP.

Smythe
Oct 12, 2003

no meds = f4




Salt Fish posted:

You're wrong.

gently caress you

Colonel Cancer
Sep 26, 2015

Tune into the fireplace channel, you absolute buffoon

That's a natural reaction to smash any form of dissent with the nearby rock or stick, maybe you should embrace it

SorePotato
Dec 26, 2012



I turn off all the lights in my apartment and meditate for a minimum of 10 minutes before I hit that post button

Good Soldier Svejk
Jul 5, 2010




I think it's important to remember we're all just people trying to get by and for the most part I don't think anyone engaging in a sincere dialogue is looking to hurt anybody

But they could also just be some stupid/mean fuckers in need of a face rearrangement

You never can tell for sure

dead gay comedy forums
Oct 21, 2011




on the other hand, this is cspam. you're welcome to be a caring and considerate poster while also having "slap a motherfucker" days with full reason

dead gay comedy forums
Oct 21, 2011




embrace the posting ways to reach wisdom. peace and namaste

World War Mammories
Aug 25, 2006

:420::420::420::420::420::420::420::420:

:420::420::420::420::420::420::420::420:


Smythe posted:

gently caress you

dead gay comedy forums posted:

embrace the posting ways to reach wisdom. peace and namaste

McNugget Buddy
Aug 14, 2021



edit, wrong thread

Good Soldier Svejk
Jul 5, 2010




McNugget Buddy posted:

edit, wrong thread

Yeah it is for you
Keep walking, buddy

Nice and hot piss
Jan 31, 2004



I want to fight every single one of you shitheads right now.

Farm Frenzy
Jan 3, 2007



its ok to be mad as long as you dont write a follow-up post explaining that your mad because late capitalism/covid/fyad etc. has made you into the joker and you have no choice but to make bad posts. most cspam posters fail at this

mawarannahr
May 21, 2019



If I had access to The Database Iíd love to see how phoneposters and web posters differ in things like word choice, post length, etc. I think the dopamine feedback loop of phone posting amplifies this kind of thing. The app is really good though.

vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011


OP you're right and the toxicity of online posting is getting to be so well-known that even academics are talking about it.

quote:

Though prior studies have analyzed the textual characteristics of online comments about politics, less is known about how selection into commenting behavior and exposure to other peopleís comments changes the tone and content of political discourse. This article makes three contributions. First, we show that frequent commenters on Facebook are more likely to be interested in politics, to have more polarized opinions, and to use toxic language in comments in an elicitation task. Second, we find that people who comment on articles in the real world use more toxic language on average than the public as a whole; levels of toxicity in comments scraped from media outlet Facebook pages greatly exceed what is observed in comments we elicit on the same articles from a nationally representative sample. Finally, we demonstrate experimentally that exposure to toxic language in comments increases the toxicity of subsequent comments.

https://academic.oup.com/joc/advance-article-abstract/doi/10.1093/joc/jqab034/6363640?redirectedFrom=fulltext

Seems like in a lot of environments the more you post the worse you feel, and the worse you feel the more you want to take it out on others. It's a toxicity feedback loop that makes everyone involved unhappy.

animist
Aug 28, 2018




if your posts dont provoke irrational rage are you even posting

paul_soccer12
Jan 5, 2020



vyelkin posted:

OP you're right and the toxicity of online posting is getting to be so well-known that even academics are talking about it.

Seems like in a lot of environments the more you post the worse you feel, and the worse you feel the more you want to take it out on others. It's a toxicity feedback loop that makes everyone involved unhappy.

not me

dead gay comedy forums
Oct 21, 2011




vyelkin posted:

OP you're right and the toxicity of online posting is getting to be so well-known that even academics are talking about it.

Seems like in a lot of environments the more you post the worse you feel, and the worse you feel the more you want to take it out on others. It's a toxicity feedback loop that makes everyone involved unhappy.

what sort of loving gently caress BULLSHIT POST is this on CEE-SPAM by a purported MODERATOR}!?!?!?!?!?! FUKC YUO ALTIDORE IS A poo poo STRIKER

Joan
Mar 28, 2021




*Puts you in a headlock* How about now

tokin opposition
Apr 8, 2021



Anger at the world, never anger at others

Nix Panicus
Feb 25, 2007



Anyone who disagrees with me is posting in bad faith because I am unquestionably correct and immune to propaganda. I have several news stories from prominent mass media outlets that back me up on this point.

If you continue to disagree with the inherent correctness of everything I say I will be forced to call the mods to have you removed immediately from this sacred posting space

Foo Diddley
Oct 29, 2011

cat

"phobos anomaly" sounds like a really cool text adventure game

anyway i didn't read any of this poo poo. hope nobody said anything important

Zodium
Jun 19, 2004


Phobos Anomaly posted:

Recently I made a (particular) forum post (not on this forum). Someone responded to this post disagreeing with me. My initial reaction was of self-righteous indignation. I'm always right how dare someone disagree with me. The fact I even managed to make my post makes me superior to all other humans.

But after cooling down and actually engaging with the offensive post I realized that this person was just pointing out the negative ramifications of my post. Ramifications that I understand and agree with. So why did I get so irrationally indignant over someone disagreeing with me?

I'm starting to believe that the format of social media forum posting is invoking and amplifying irrational rage. It's easy for oneself to believe they're right about something when you have so many people sharing your belief. This in turn makes it incredibly easy to invoke irrational rage when someone even disagrees with you. I'm always right, so you must be evil if you disagree with me, and the cycle amplifies itself and goes on.

Now I have great respect for C-SPAM posters who are much more smarter and well-informed than I am, so this is probably all very obvious to you all. But if you could expand on this a bit that would be great.

what's driving the online anger cycle is not facebook or forums. those are just like microscopes or particle accelerators or whatever that lets us see the phenomenon better. you lash out angrily because you are angry. like, as a baseline. and you are angry because the world is hosed. and it is that way because of Capital, but it's very difficult to stay mad at Capital. it requires sustained effort, because we have all learned to perceive the world as individuals and the relations between them, instead of in terms of the material conditions that produce those individuals and relations to begin with. so we have to think hard to stay mad at Capital. and so, when we feel angry, we instead engage in angry behavior toward what we easily perceive: individuals.

it happens irl, around dinner tables and at the office, just as much as on facebook. because it's the world. or material conditions, or whatever. and each time we learn nothing, because we are lying to ourselves about why we're mad or what to do with it. social media is not the problem. anger is not the problem. we're supposed to get mad when material conditions decline! we're supposed to get mad when the world is dying. the problem is being drawn into a recursive loop of getting mad about getting mad, or being mad for its own sake. that's when reflexively analyzing the world in terms of proximate individual causes instead of the ultimate systemic causes further adds to that baseline anger and confusion, and thus not only fails to do anything helpful, but also sets up the next instance.

basically it's a form of bikeshedding op

vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011


dead gay comedy forums posted:

what sort of loving gently caress BULLSHIT POST is this on CEE-SPAM by a purported MODERATOR}!?!?!?!?!?! FUKC YUO ALTIDORE IS A poo poo STRIKER

he is indeed a poo poo striker

u sp33k l33t br0
Sep 12, 2007

Who Doesn't Like Intercourse?


Soiled Meat

vyelkin posted:

OP you're right and the toxicity of online posting is getting to be so well-known that even academics are talking about it.

Seems like in a lot of environments the more you post the worse you feel, and the worse you feel the more you want to take it out on others. It's a toxicity feedback loop that makes everyone involved unhappy.

Lurker supremacy.

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

「俺達の新力だ
真ゲッターロボ!」

You're not a leftist if you don't want to destroy your posting enemies.

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012




Lipstick Apathy

quote:

As I have said, we too are concerned with combating the lack of principle, the inner emptiness, the spiritual deadness, the untruthfulness of the age; we are waging a war to the death against all these things, just as Carlyle is, and there is a much greater probability that we shall succeed than that he will, because we know what we want.
-- Engels

AnimeIsTrash
Jun 30, 2018



didn't read

ELTON JOHN
Feb 17, 2014


best not to get too worked up

Homeless Friend
Jul 16, 2007



Farm Frenzy posted:

its ok to be mad as long as you dont write a follow-up post explaining that your mad because late capitalism/covid/fyad etc. has made you into the joker and you have no choice but to make bad posts. most cspam posters fail at this

its incredible that goons do the cope meme at themselves without shame

WorkerThread
Feb 15, 2012



who cares

Lib and let die
Aug 26, 2004

There's a lot of products that you can buy with money but my posts are the only limited product, that only you can have.



OP there's actually some merit to the idea that the transmission method or medium of information is just as powerful, if not more powerful than, the message being transmitted via that medium. In the 1960's, Canadian Media Professor Marshall McLuhan proposed in his book Understanding Media: The Extensions of Man that the media itself, not the content itself is more influential on a society than any message it carries. He would also classify mediums as "hot" or "cold" mediums, based on whether some receiver engagement was expected or not. Other forums will laud the Shannon-Weaver model as an unassailable bastion of media analysis, but McLuhan saw that model as being tied to a necessary notion of efficient causality that was largely undone when the definition of efficient causality it is based upon was revealed to have been due to an early print-era mistranslation of Aristotle's idea of efficient causality.

Rather than a causal model, McLuhan proposed a 'tetrad' shaped model, described on wikipedia as such:

quote:


In Laws of Media (1988), published posthumously by his son Eric, McLuhan summarized his ideas about media in a concise tetrad of media effects. The tetrad is a means of examining the effects on society of any technology (i.e., any medium) by dividing its effects into four categories and displaying them simultaneously. McLuhan designed the tetrad as a pedagogical tool, phrasing his laws as questions with which to consider any medium:

  • What does the medium enhance?
  • What does the medium make obsolete?
  • What does the medium retrieve that had been obsolesced earlier?
  • What does the medium flip into when pushed to extremes?
  • The laws of the tetrad exist simultaneously, not successively or chronologically, and allow the questioner to explore the "grammar and syntax" of the "language" of media. McLuhan departs from his mentor Harold Innis in suggesting that a medium "overheats," or reverses into an opposing form, when taken to its extreme.

Visually, a tetrad can be depicted as four diamonds forming an X, with the name of a medium in the centre. The two diamonds on the left of a tetrad are the Enhancement and Retrieval qualities of the medium, both Figure qualities. The two diamonds on the right of a tetrad are the Obsolescence and Reversal qualities, both Ground qualities.



Using the example of radio:

  • Enhancement (figure): What the medium amplifies or intensifies. Radio amplifies news and music via sound.
  • Obsolescence (ground): What the medium drives out of prominence. Radio reduces the importance of print and the visual.
  • Retrieval (figure): What the medium recovers which was previously lost. Radio returns the spoken word to the forefront.
  • Reversal (ground): What the medium does when pushed to its limits. Acoustic radio flips into audio-visual TV.

Given that there are so many formats to internet communication, we can't unfortunately apply the Tetrad to "The Internet", but rather it's more suited to avenues of communication within the internet.

What does vlogging enhance?
What does longform forums posting enhance?
What do tweets and twitter threads enhance?

What do they obsolete?
What do they retrieve? For forumsposting, we could certainly argue a sense of nostalgia in the world of 240 characters or less!
What are they when taken to the extreme? Well, the Media Analysis & Criticism Thread in that forum is probably a good example of a medium taken to an extreme.

Crazypoops
Jul 17, 2017




I'll fight anyone in this thread, come at me

Mr. Sharps
Jul 30, 2006

The only true law is that which leads to freedom. There is no other.





Foo Diddley posted:

"phobos anomaly" sounds like a really cool text adventure game

anyway i didn't read any of this poo poo. hope nobody said anything important

phobos anomaly is the final level of the first episode of the original doom. i donít know if that has anything to do with what this poster said as my favorite hobby is to quote random posts w/o reading and reply with a doom fact, enjoy!

Good soup!
Nov 1, 2010



Cool thanks for the update op

Smythe
Oct 12, 2003

no meds = f4




Lib and let die posted:

OP there's actually some merit to the idea that the transmission method or medium of information is just as powerful, if not more powerful than, the message being transmitted via that medium. In the 1960's, Canadian Media Professor Marshall McLuhan proposed in his book Understanding Media: The Extensions of Man that the media itself, not the content itself is more influential on a society than any message it carries. He would also classify mediums as "hot" or "cold" mediums, based on whether some receiver engagement was expected or not. Other forums will laud the Shannon-Weaver model as an unassailable bastion of media analysis, but McLuhan saw that model as being tied to a necessary notion of efficient causality that was largely undone when the definition of efficient causality it is based upon was revealed to have been due to an early print-era mistranslation of Aristotle's idea of efficient causality.

Rather than a causal model, McLuhan proposed a 'tetrad' shaped model, described on wikipedia as such:

Given that there are so many formats to internet communication, we can't unfortunately apply the Tetrad to "The Internet", but rather it's more suited to avenues of communication within the internet.

What does vlogging enhance?
What does longform forums posting enhance?
What do tweets and twitter threads enhance?

What do they obsolete?
What do they retrieve? For forumsposting, we could certainly argue a sense of nostalgia in the world of 240 characters or less!
What are they when taken to the extreme? Well, the Media Analysis & Criticism Thread in that forum is probably a good example of a medium taken to an extreme.

thank u

Pentecoastal Elites
Feb 27, 2007



I avoid this by only making good posts, op

Fortaleza
Feb 21, 2008

Feel It


expressin' my aggression through my schizophrenic verse words

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

mawarannahr
May 21, 2019



Lib and let die posted:

OP there's actually some merit to the idea that the transmission method or medium of information is just as powerful, if not more powerful than, the message being transmitted via that medium. In the 1960's, Canadian Media Professor Marshall McLuhan proposed in his book Understanding Media: The Extensions of Man that the media itself, not the content itself is more influential on a society than any message it carries. He would also classify mediums as "hot" or "cold" mediums, based on whether some receiver engagement was expected or not. Other forums will laud the Shannon-Weaver model as an unassailable bastion of media analysis, but McLuhan saw that model as being tied to a necessary notion of efficient causality that was largely undone when the definition of efficient causality it is based upon was revealed to have been due to an early print-era mistranslation of Aristotle's idea of efficient causality.

Rather than a causal model, McLuhan proposed a 'tetrad' shaped model, described on wikipedia as such:

Given that there are so many formats to internet communication, we can't unfortunately apply the Tetrad to "The Internet", but rather it's more suited to avenues of communication within the internet.

What does vlogging enhance?
What does longform forums posting enhance?
What do tweets and twitter threads enhance?

What do they obsolete?
What do they retrieve? For forumsposting, we could certainly argue a sense of nostalgia in the world of 240 characters or less!
What are they when taken to the extreme? Well, the Media Analysis & Criticism Thread in that forum is probably a good example of a medium taken to an extreme.

You know nothing of my work! You mean my whole fallacy is wrong. How you got to teach a course in anything is totally amazing!

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply