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I don't think new inflation numbers have come out yet, but this should be highlighted: If 6% CPI inflation, 5% ex-food and energy is causing liberal elites to panick-snap back to austerity and cause, along with the new covid wave, a recession that will guarantee the return of Trump and friends, no leftist (frankly no-one period) should vote for a Democrat ever again under any circumstances
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Dec 1, 2021 03:55
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Bugsy posted:If the districts stay the same it will be 45% of the votes getting 64% of the state legislature. Hell it probably be worse. Dems got 45% of the state assembly vote in 2020, and 45% in 2016. Can't find numbers for previous years but the basic problem is Democrats aren't competitive anywhere in the state outside of Madison and the city limits of Milwaukee. I actually went back and looked through older election results and Dems have essentially never been competitive in the northeastern quadrant of the state with Green Bay and such despite it being reasonably urbanized. Dems won Brown County (Green Bay) in 2008 and 1996, has been R every other presidential election since 64. Historically the Dems were actually more competitive in the truly rural-nowhere northwest circular part with mining and logging camps and poo poo. Non-gerrymandered maps would still produce Republican majorities most of the time except in wave years like 2018 icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Dec 1, 2021 |
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Dec 1, 2021 04:02
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Dems are going to get destroyed so badly in 22 and 24 I'm not sure they will even really exist as a national party past then
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Dec 1, 2021 23:00
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Fister Roboto posted:"A few bad apples spoil the bunch." More than this, it's crucial that you can't say 'vote blue no matter who' AND ALSO say that the party/identity/whatever the Democrats are actually supposed to be is not responsible for the bad apples. Vote blue no matter who is an endorsement of everyone running under the label. No purity tests means no purity tests, they're either all rotten or they're not
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Dec 1, 2021 23:19
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socialsecurity posted:With as diverse as the voting base is in America there is no way you could get a ruling majority without being a big tent party, so what's the alternative some sort of leftist dictatorship? The idea that no politics can get a governing majority just because liberals can't is fallacious and wrong For example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_(United_States)
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Dec 1, 2021 23:30
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socialsecurity posted:And how much major legislation have the Republicans ever been lockstep on? They couldn't even repeal Obamacare because one of their one voted against them, seems like a poo poo example. Well they're in the process of outlawing abortion, which they are 100% lockstep on, they've always been successful at massive tax cuts, 100% lockstep, they successfully expanded right to work at the state level through most of the country, again 100% lockstep. I think Obamacare is an issue where the leadership cares but not THAT much, and they made a mistake in whipping up the base about it too much. It doesn't seem to be doing any long term damage to them though. Like in general the idea that Republicans can't govern, especially in comparison to Democrats, is mostly liberal copium. They govern to morally bad ends of course, but that's not the issue in question
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Dec 1, 2021 23:42
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SpartanIvy posted:Unfortunately it's the Democrats realigning with Republicans and Republicans realigning with Trump. Yeah I think it's clear that even in the fantasy world where some kind of social-democratic third party started to break through at the national level what remains of the Democrats would align themselves with Republicans against the socialists. There's no world where they would not do everything possible to sabotage them socialsecurity posted:What is this nonsense, we were talking legislation in the first place, but let's take abortion something that we've been talking about pro choice Republicans for the past several pages like Susan Collins so not lockstep. The tax bill they passed took a huge amount of internal negotiation and still barely got the votes for reconciliation on it. You seem to be trying to paint with some broad strokes here to prove your point but it just disproves it more. They did fail to pass anti-abortion law federally because Susan Collins, but the state level is just as important. The tax bill passed, which BBB has not. They appoint judges that enact their policy agenda, Democrats don't/can't/won't. It is probably fair to say Republicans are still less capable at governing than a normal parliamentary party government, but they're vastly more capable than Democrats icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Dec 1, 2021 |
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Dec 1, 2021 23:52
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The thing about policy being popular in the abstract but not enough to move votes is the whole point of the political party. As Gramsci said, voters don't exist politically unless they are framed in parties. In a world where parties besides R and D aren't allowed it was worth a shot to try to push policy directly but I agree it doesn't seem to work. That's just an argument for third-partyism though https://www.marxists.org/archive/gramsci/1921/09/parties-masses.htm Solkanar512 posted:Or you look at states that have elected working democratic majorities and the changes that they're able to make. Folks keep ignoring this. Right, there aren't any. That's the point icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Dec 2, 2021 |
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Dec 2, 2021 00:04
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Like, I'm repeating an earlier post from today, but the problem is that in order to start solving the problem of "Dems appear to have 50 seats but they actually don't because SineManchin and probably 10 other senators if it ever actually came to that" you have to start actually discriminating between nominal Democrats, which you are categorically not allowed to do under liberal doctrine. It wouldn't matter if they "had" 60 seats, they still wouldn't actually have the seats. We know this because it happened so recently that all the contemporary posts about it are still on these here forums in the archives. It can't ever be solved because it's intrinsic to how American liberalism works
icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Dec 2, 2021 |
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Dec 2, 2021 05:24
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socialsecurity posted:Yeah so unreasonable the dems didn't pass 80 bills during the what 60ish working days they had a slim majority? Yes. If you want to claim to be a competent party of government you have to actually govern, and if your meta-political commitments to bipartisanship, pragmatism and THE NORMS and whatever prevent you from doing that you have an existential problem DeadlyMuffin posted:I'm not sure seeing all Democrats as a monolith is a particularly liberal affliction You could even argue if you were inclined that there's a cyclical dynamic between liberals who will not tolerate division within their ranks and conservatives who see all Democrats as a homogenous block of satanic baby-eaters icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Dec 2, 2021 |
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Dec 2, 2021 05:36
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socialsecurity posted:How many bills per day of senate do you consider competent? I'm going to define competence at this point as ending the filibuster, because that's basically required now to do anything, as the Democrats themselves say over and over. They can end it with 51 votes, in one bill, passed in one day. Haven't done it yet, don't look like they will before Republicans sweep back into power and effectively end electoral democracy in this country DeadlyMuffin posted:I'd argue that, in the context of this thread, "liberals" and "leftists" don't have anything approaching a commonly accepted definition Liberals being the entire Congressional Democratic party, yes including Bernie and the squad, and the mainstream political media including NPR, the NYT, WaPo, big three networks. I haven't mentioned leftists at all
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Dec 2, 2021 05:50
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I kind of feel like with inflation, as with many other issues, the problem is not inflation per se but the Dems' and affiliated commentators' instantaneous sprinting away from their own policies and conceding all points to their critics. Like it doesn't actually matter if they're 5% better than Republicans or whatever, if they immediately abandon everything that makes them even that much better then it's no longer relevant?
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Dec 3, 2021 03:47
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I think you have to decompose inflation into different sectors, with different political implications for them. For pandemic related delays like computer and cars and poo poo, that should largely affect everyone equally rich or poor. Nothing you can do about it through policy either. For wage inflation and labor shortage, this is going to come at the expense of the (right-leaning) small-business-owning petty bourgeois, and benefit low wage workers. Here you should lean into it, take the side of the workers, and not accept the small business owner framing For housing inflation, this hurts low wage workers the most of anyone, but also probably benefits liberal-leaning upper middle classes more than average. Here you should build more housing and probably deregulate zoning What the Democrats are doing in response to inflation, as far as I can see, is basically accept the small business owner framing of working class wage inflation as bad, presumably leading to them embracing austerity again in the short time left they will have in office, and do nothing whatsoever to deal with housing inflation. Basically committing political suicidie
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Dec 3, 2021 04:06
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Harold Fjord posted:Wait what Well, it probably still hurts the poor more than the rich, but not by as much as other stuff I should have mentioned energy and food too, there's not much policy can do about that especially since we released those areas to the control of the Free Market decades ago
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Dec 3, 2021 04:22
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I think you could make a very solid argument the Dems have not actually moved left much if at all from Clinton years EXCEPT on cultural and social issues, and basically every single day there are op-eds by liberals whining about how this was a mistake and how liberals need to be more racist and reactionary again. Biden is as carcereal and police state-y as Clinton was, and he and his party are as unwilling to pass any economic policy beyond means-tested tax credits. The idea that there's progressive movement is an illusion that the ecosystem of center-left political media works very hard to sustain. The only exception I guess is foreign policy, but Dems are rapidly correcting to a new neoconservative hawkishness
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Dec 10, 2021 21:05
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Srice posted:I wouldn't call this disappointing since it's not like I was under any illusion that it wasn't gonna end this way, but this sure is gonna be one hell of a self-inflicted wound. I have a very low opinion of liberals, but even I would not have predicted that 6% cpi inflation, 5% ex food and energy, during the worst pandemic in 100 years, would cause American liberals to basically put a gun to the head of American democracy and pull the trigger
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Dec 11, 2021 17:54
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