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CRUSTY MINGE posted:Manchin would vote against anyone worth putting up. I don't even need special future seeing glasses to know Breyer won't leave before the midterms and when he dies on the court, republicans will have the senate again. Yup. This is one of the reasons I expect at least a 7-2 majority for the rest of our lives.
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Dec 2, 2021 01:12
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Terrifying Effigies posted:
I see it being sold another way. That the poor are "failing at America," the "land of opportunity." Buzzwords that Boomers eat right up because the last time they were even remotely true was when they were coming up in the world. The homeless will be the "trial program." There's a reason most choose to stay *out* of shelters, but people (liberal and conservative) who don't care enough to learn why that is just assume they'd be better off "somewhere safe," you know, away from them and their compromised property values. And hey, if we can give them "jobs," in the loosest measure of the term, all the better, right?!?! Expect to have it sold as "bringing back American manufacturing" by people who will say that having a pool of
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Dec 2, 2021 01:18
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The story of the leadup to the MI shooting that's coming out is increasingly bizarre. There'd been chatter about a threat from the student for weeks; the school repeatedly denied it; the shooter's father bought the gun used in the shooting just days prior; the school had a meeting with the kid and his parents three hours before the shooting while he had the gun in his bag. The 15-year-old going to be charged as an adult, which seems asinine when his dad, at least, might as well have pulled the trigger. The county prosecutor is at least considering charging the parents, but it's an open question whether any charges would even stick.
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Dec 2, 2021 05:09
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I get really uncomfortable prosecuting less than 18 year olds as adults. Throwing away a 15 year old for life seems… hosed.
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Dec 2, 2021 05:13
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LtCol J. Krusinski posted:I get really uncomfortable prosecuting less than 18 year olds as adults. Throwing away a 15 year old for life seems… hosed. A brave child... giving up the rest of his life so that his Worthless Boomer Parents don't have to suffer any consequences for their actions. A true American hero.
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Dec 2, 2021 05:18
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A 15 year old cannot fully process actions to consequences. As horrible as the crime is putting him to trial as an adult is wrong. I hate even saying that.
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Dec 2, 2021 05:39
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Cugel the Clever posted:The story of the leadup to the MI shooting that's coming out is increasingly bizarre. There'd been chatter about a threat from the student for weeks; the school repeatedly denied it; the shooter's father bought the gun used in the shooting just days prior; the school had a meeting with the kid and his parents three hours before the shooting while he had the gun in his bag. Charge the parents with capital murder. Send the kid to therapy.
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Dec 2, 2021 05:55
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ded posted:A 15 year old cannot fully process actions to consequences. As horrible as the crime is putting him to trial as an adult is wrong. I hate even saying that. I'm willing to wait to hear all of the details as they come out, but I don't think there's such a thing as a "babe in the woods" anymore with regards to school shootings. He was a child until he started shooting. I'm all for keeping him in protective custody (not Juvie) until he turns 18, during which time he should *clearly* get counseling and help, but I can't give the kid a pass in this case. And I believe the father should catch charges for being recklessly negligent in keeping tabs on his firearm, as well as be open to whatever charges are applicable for said weapon being used in a MASCAL event. BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Dec 2, 2021 |
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Dec 2, 2021 05:59
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If the defense lawyers don't bankrupt the parents, the civil suits will, so at the very least they get to enjoy dying penniless.
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Dec 2, 2021 06:05
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Parents should catch blame for sure. They knew something was up. This story has so many odd angles its like a game of telephone.
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Dec 2, 2021 06:09
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lol if that kid knew enough to try to pretend to be authority to kill more people he knew exactly what he was doing and should locked up and forgotten about. also the dad. what a piece of poo poo.
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Dec 2, 2021 06:13
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Crab Dad posted:lol if that kid knew enough to try to pretend to be authority to kill more people he knew exactly what he was doing and should locked up and forgotten about.
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Dec 2, 2021 06:52
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literally this big posted:A brave child... giving up the rest of his life so that his Worthless Boomer Parents don't have to suffer any consequences for their actions. A true American hero. I hate to break it but a 15 year old kid is likely not old enough to have boomers for parents Also I know I'm an idiot but I literally just missed the entire November thread because there wasn't a link at the end of October. Help me next time this is the
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Dec 2, 2021 07:22
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There’s a spectrum. It’s one thing if a fifteen‐year‐old drives car fast and kills somebody. Their brain is still developing and they may not entirely grasp the relationship between risky activities and consequences. Intentionally shooting people is something else entirely. If they haven’t figured out that that’s bad by the age of fifteen, they never will.
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Dec 2, 2021 07:24
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Platystemon posted:There’s a spectrum.
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Dec 2, 2021 07:30
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BIG HEADLINE posted:I see it being sold another way. That the poor are "failing at America," the "land of opportunity." Buzzwords that Boomers eat right up because the last time they were even remotely true was when they were coming up in the world. The trial program is already underway. There’s tons of programs like Amazon’s Mechanical Turk jobs that are already performed by captive workforces. Either captive in the sense that there are no other options or literally captive in the cases of prisons and, disgustingly, refugee camps
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Dec 2, 2021 07:34
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Soul Dentist posted:Also I know I'm an idiot but I literally just missed the entire November thread because there wasn't a link at the end of October. Help me next time this is the
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Dec 2, 2021 07:53
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Collective Punishment, including Kin Punishment is generally frowned upon. It seems to me that parents can be guilty of abuses that lead to a child's terrible action, and they can be accomplice to their child's terrible action. There are also charges like contributing to the delinquency of a minor in some states, but that's separate from trying a parent for their child's crime.
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Dec 2, 2021 10:35
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Crab Dad posted:lol if that kid knew enough to try to pretend to be authority to kill more people he knew exactly what he was doing and should locked up and forgotten about. Was it actually verified that the shooter was trying to impersonate cops to get people to open the door? I thought that was actually the sheriffs and the kids in the classroom panicked because they used the word “bro.” I also recognize that teenagers have poor impulse control and a lack of appreciation for consequences, but making the decision to steal a gun and several magazines and carry it to school with the intent to use it while knowing that you’re under scrutiny already sounds like the opposite of impulsive. The kid intentionally killed four people, this isn’t something that can be rehabilitated or redeemed.
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Dec 2, 2021 12:47
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Platystemon posted:There’s a spectrum. It's not about not knowing right from wrong. It's about impulse control, decision making, and the ability to actually realize consequences (which is not the same as being able to state them). A 15 year old is not an adult and does not think like an adult or make rational decisions like an adult. I'm not willing to write an actual literal child off as a hopeless case and "garbage."
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Dec 2, 2021 12:54
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Without knowing more about the kid's personal situation and mental state, it's hard to say anything definitive. Maybe he was traumatized and abused! Maybe he's just a sociopathic rear end in a top hat! At this stage, with the information that we have, it's impossible to say for sure. (though sociopathic rear end in a top hat probably seems more likely from what little I've read) What can probably be said for sure though is holy poo poo what were his parents doing? They bought the gun on Friday? What the absolute gently caress was going on in that household??
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Dec 2, 2021 13:18
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pantslesswithwolves posted:Was it actually verified that the shooter was trying to impersonate cops to get people to open the door? I thought that was actually the sheriffs and the kids in the classroom panicked because they used the word “bro.” Cops said (with appropriate caveats) that it actually was a cop and not the shooter: https://twitter.com/Dave_Boucher1/status/1466140337794166786?t=SPRRWOUOzAFh632KI2j-Bw&s=19 The school apparently had local security (1-2 people around) and a school resource officer, so highly likely there was a lot of confusion when the kid apparently left the bathroom blasting away.
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Dec 2, 2021 13:45
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I had read that there was a police officer in the school / assigned to the school. Did they help apprehend the shooter? Just curious if it was like the Parkland, FL school shooting or not where the officer declined to participate.
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Dec 2, 2021 13:51
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That Works posted:I had read that there was a police officer in the school / assigned to the school. Still extremely early, but per the Detroit Free Press and a LEO, the resource officer and a responding deputy arrested him, it was apparently like two minutes in total and the shooter didn't use all of his ammo. https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2021/11/30/oxford-high-shooting-police-school-liaison-officer/8813723002/
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Dec 2, 2021 13:57
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Well, ignoring how common and freakish it is to have both cops and shooters in high schools on the regular good for that guy for intervening so fast.
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Dec 2, 2021 14:06
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BIG HEADLINE posted:I see it being sold another way. That the poor are "failing at America," the "land of opportunity." Buzzwords that Boomers eat right up because the last time they were even remotely true was when they were coming up in the world. There was that article that the “respectable” conservative Claremont Institute put out arguing that most American citizens shouldn’t be considered citizens legally or ethically, and in the mind of someone like that “citizen” means “person.” Here we go: https://americanmind.org/salvo/why-the-claremont-institute-is-not-conservative-and-you-shouldnt-be-either/ A uniquely American fascism SMEGMA_MAIL fucked around with this message at 14:12 on Dec 2, 2021 |
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Dec 2, 2021 14:09
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A child should not be charged as an adult. Period. They are a child, and there is a reason we created a dual tree system. Either they are a child until arbitrary age, or they aren't; you don't get to have it both ways. It doesn't matter how mature or clever they are, they are kids, and should not be charged as adults. Charging children as adults is akin to throwing them in the garbage; you've assured that their lives are over with no rehab.
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Dec 2, 2021 14:22
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I agree. It should be treated as a matter like insanity defense if they’re really dangerous like this kid until they’re not but it’s baffling to me how you can be “charged as an adult” when you’re literally not. Like those kids parents were freaks right? There’s a chance years away with time to mature he could be normalish but that’s not likely to happen in prison.
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Dec 2, 2021 14:36
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:Well, ignoring how common and freakish it is to have both cops and shooters in high schools on the regular good for that guy for intervening so fast. Anecdotally, our district had a referendum for an educational tax increase, pitched it as For the Children, then turned around and hired a couple of dozen cops to patrol the schools with the proceeds. Very cool to normalize that poo poo. Also agreeing with those saying the kid shouldn't be tried as an adult. The whole thing is absolutely terrible, but throwing the kid away is shameful. The dad though, I want to know what the hell happened there. Gonna keep locking up my guns and not hand my kid a pistol when he's a teenager and say "go nuts!" 
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Dec 2, 2021 15:25
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Our Justice System is trash, and yeah he shouldn't be tried as an adult. Fifteen is too young to really understand consequence, and being an angry hormone riddled teen who may have school or even family issues (given his dad doing this), he needs help more than to face an already cruel and harsh justice system. His dad, however, needs to face the light.
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Dec 2, 2021 15:35
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If you can afford a gun and ammunition, you can afford to buy what you need to lock it up properly. The dad needs to answer for this poo poo. It's not that hard--Lock up your loving guns.
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Dec 2, 2021 15:55
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Itchy_Grundle posted:If you can afford a gun and ammunition, you can afford to buy what you need to lock it up properly. The dad needs to answer for this poo poo. There is a group of gun owners who will accuse you of extreme classism over this take. I fall under saying lock up your guns, but no one expects you to have a $10,000 vault safe. At least make a kid deliberately break open a locked metal cabinet to access a gun.
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Dec 2, 2021 16:13
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Isn't a halfway decent locking gun case like a couple hundred? Those little ones you use for securing them while you travel.
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Dec 2, 2021 16:25
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RFC2324 posted:Isn't a halfway decent locking gun case like a couple hundred? Stack On cabinets are lockable and quite cheap ($60-250 depending on size) and require at least a prybar, drill or grinder to get into. They are "easy" to break into but you'd have to put in actual effort for a few moments. Hell even a trigger lock (usually supplied with the gun) is not much better than security theater but at least makes it such that someone has to physically break things to get use of the firearm.
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Dec 2, 2021 16:30
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mlmp08 posted:There is a group of gun owners who will accuse you of extreme classism over this take. Edit: Also, I've got a cheap $150 stack-on cabinet that I'm in the process of adding secondary locks to so that there's a key and combination. Solely because I have teenagers.
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Dec 2, 2021 16:35
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Sometimes security theatre is convenient if only to show that there was criminal intent to take the gun without permission.
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Dec 2, 2021 16:36
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mlmp08 posted:There is a group of gun owners who will accuse you of extreme classism over this take. those people can gently caress off, then. the threshold is simply having firearms in the house protected by something strong enough to defeat a child's attempts. saying this is too expensive or classism is an indefensible position. it is the bare minimum.
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Dec 2, 2021 16:38
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RFC2324 posted:Isn't a halfway decent locking gun case like a couple hundred? Pelican cases? I think my rifle case was about $250. The little one for my .22 was around $40. But you can cut through a Pelican case pretty easily with a battery powered circular saw. I don't have kids, so my revolver just hangs out, loaded in its' holster in a closet between old clothes.
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Dec 2, 2021 16:39
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If your kid is taking power tools to your gun storage, you maybe just should get rid of the guns Like, if this is part of your "this is a scenario i might dwal with" maybe decide which one is more important to you
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Dec 2, 2021 16:43
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RFC2324 posted:If your kid is taking power tools to your gun storage, you maybe just should get rid of the guns It's more of a creativity of your teenager thing at that point, but yeah, maybe take your guns to someone else's house. Glad I don't have kids. For a variety of reasons, not just so I can leave my guns around willy-nilly.
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Dec 2, 2021 16:44
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