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Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001

You're right, the animations are really good. The only thing I'm seeing so far that detracts from the melee combat is that the over-the-shoulder perspective doesn't give a great idea of distance to your opponent (ask me about being bad at dark souls), but then again since it's all barehanded combat I guess you want to be all up in their faces all the time anyway.

The idea of creating setpiece fights in "real world" places is a pretty interesting one. Given how empty a lot of this level feels, I think that it might have been better and a tighter experience if they had made the whole place smaller and more crowded like a real warehouse. Expanding on this idea, imagine if there was a bit of parkour like vaulting and wall-jumping that could combo into special attacks. And destructible objects that you could knock or throw people into. But, this was the 90s, and times and physics engines were much simpler then...


Lots of crates just sitting on the floor or stacked on each other without pallets... then again I don't think I saw any pallet jacks or forklifts either. Maybe threre's magic futuretech that levitates the crates on their own or something.

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Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001

Ah yes, I see about this being the Best Gun. Feels just like my old favourite, the railgun from Quake 2: neato blue vapour trail, punchy sound, kills a target in one shot or two if armoured.

Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001

Yeah, this is what I was hoping for when I was talking about smaller levels earlier - this one feels much tighter, even with the backtracking there seems to be less dead space between events and points of interest. The sniper shooting at you through the window was also neat but it'd have been nice if they used a slightly less insane weapon.
From watching so far the combat, to me, most resembles a classic arcade beat-em-up. I'm not sure if you get better moves later on but it feels like it's just missing a crowd-control sort of move that can reliably hit two or more enemies to get you out of a jam.

Plot-wise, yeah, I think a lot of the weirdness is from the game being so rushed. Like, the basic plot beats are there, but as you point out there are a ton of holes and bits that are pretty tenuously held together. It feels like the game was intended to be more adult and dark/edgy, but because of the jankiness the delivery comes off more saturday morning cartoon, and I feel that this incongruity makes the plot holes and problematic nature of the twist/reveal that we just saw stand out all the more.

Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001

berryjon posted:

And depending on the throw, you can also hit/damage/down other enemies.

Oh, that's a neat detail.
And the crrrunch of the neck lariat always makes me surprised to see anyone get up again after suffering it...

Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001

"Science prison"? Really, I don't think you could work somewhere that has "science prisons" and not be constantly asking if you youself are actually one of the baddies.

This level does a reasonable job of the plot reveal and some high intensity fight situations, and the physical design is decent too - but that picture at the end level transition really feels problematic at best. I wonder whether it comes from the same person who was responsible for the Shinatama creepiness.

[edit]This reveal also neatly lays down a reason/excuse for a good old-fashioned multistage boss who taunts you that you haven't seen his final form yet :)

Crazy Achmed fucked around with this message at 07:13 on Jan 14, 2022

Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001

Well, I agree that the game is more than likely to screw us over later on if we kill Griffin, probably by deciding that this action makes Konoko a bad/violent person and affecting how her symbiote evolves.

On the other hand, saying that Griffin refuses to take responsibility for his own actions is the understatement of the century. He's done an escalating chain of horrific actions with zero remorse, starting with weaponising Konoko - he really doesn't treat her as a sentient being, let alone human. This results in him arranging the murders of Shinatama and Kerr, and trying to have us assassinated to save his career / cover his tracks. Sure, Kerr's death was technically an accident, but it could have been avoided if he'd treated Konoko as a person and tried to talk with her, instead of telling everyone to shoot her on sight. And that's not even mentioning the ridiculously sick poo poo that just happened with Shinatama.
He knows that the deaths are his fault and he doesn't give a drat, as evidenced by how he's more than happy to throw half the TCTF into the meatgrinder that is the 3-punch combo. And for what? To keep his cushy govermnent job and pension? He can't even say anymore that it's to defend against Muro and the Syndicate, because as I just mentioned he's been very busy manipulating his army to fight his superweapon instead of the Bad Guys. Snap the bastard's neck and don't look back.

Crazy Achmed fucked around with this message at 11:17 on Jan 17, 2022

Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001

berryjon posted:

Now I'm thinking of an alternate take on the State Building HQ where Konoko is locked to 'stroll' speed, and spends her time in the first building talking to people to figure out where she needs to go. No violence, just her awkwardly asking "Hey, where's the secret files about my family? Oh? Me? Terrorist? Never! Would anyone evil like that walk in here before closing and ask politely?" Only once she gets into the basement and starts to get her files does she find out about Mukade, and then Violence Ensues.

If this game ever gets a remake, it clearly needs to be in the vein of the newer Deus Ex titles but with emphasis on melee rather than ranged combat.

Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001

I'm down with the whole "no moral, this is just revenge" thing. Sometimes simple is best.

The audio bothers me though. I just can't take the syndicate elites seriously though with their goofy voices, it's like someone with a mouthful of sandwich mumbling and groaning into a trashcan. And the music - the stuff playing during the credits is pretty neat if a bit peak late-90s-cool. Yet during the actual game they only use a couple of pretty crappy to mediocre 10-second loops... I don't know who did the decision making and cutting there, but they screwed up.

did anyone else notice the special thanks to one Hugh Jass?

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Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001

Thanks! I remember seeing this one boxed on the shelf at the store I was younger. It's good to see that the game got released and is fun to play, becuase it's obvious that the dev team felt strongly about what they wanted it to be - it's just a shame that it was never really "completed".
Gameplay wise, two things have always bothered me about 3d brawlers: figuring out your distance from a first-person or over-the-shoulder perspective, and dealing with multiple opponents. Maybe the perspective issues are just a me thing, though. And I've never really played musou games, but it always looks like they deliberately have very passive AI to avoid you getting immediately stunlocked and killed by the hordes you fight against - compare this to Oni's more simple approach of forcing the player to play tactically to avoid getting tag-teamed to death.
Aside from what's already been mentioned, I also can't help comparing the combat to dark souls. Watching you exploit the terrain to deal with snipers and buy time to avoid having to fight more than one person at a time basically hasn't changed, although the lack of a stamina bar makes Oni much more fast-paced.

As for the future, I haven't seen much of it yet but this game looks like it could be pretty neat:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVBDTVaychw

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