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Keldulas posted:I don't get why Hayato's bases are so terrible. Seems like it's a combination Birthright unit thing + non-royal thing? Walla posted:It's mostly a Birthright thing. I imagine the philosophy is since you can freely grind then they don't need to worry as much about balance. I think Hayato is the last though. The next 3 chapters give you 3 of the best non-royals in the game, and you have a full roster by Chapter 14 except for Jakob, Izana, Shura and Yukimura.
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Dec 11, 2021 17:15
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 14:18 |
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  Time to pick up Mozu. In this universe this tragedy does not happen on her birthday, so things are already looking better for her!  But first I need to mess around in my castle. Burnt food is delicious but I think it's also carcinogenic so you probably shouldn't eat it.  The Lottery Shop is finally here. Time for the neverending resource grind... Coral is used for naginatas, so I can use this to make Subaki hit a little less like a wet noodle.  I think I'm going to save this for Rhajat, her base skill growth is 10% and that's the lowest of any non-prepromote character in Fates. I keep saying I'm going to give all of these to Setsuna and then not doing it... I just don't think she would really benefit from anything besides Energy Drops!  Oops, I forgot I haven't built a forge yet so now Setsuna's holding 2 of the same yumi and looking like a fool. Just hold them both in the same hand so you can fire 2 arrows at the same time, I think that's how archery works.     C supports for everyone. I can't believe Setsuna doesn't like doing things either, she's so relatable!!!   Also yikes Silas you're really laying into her. The support conversations were outsourced to a different team than the one that wrote the plot for this game iirc, this feels like it was written by someone who used Hana expecting her to be awesome and was sorely disappointed.  That's enough stalling, I assume Mozu is still alive!!! I've already shown off this chapter before and it's fairly boring so don't expect any in-depth commentary, it's mostly here to feed EXP to your bad units. This is a shared map so it'll be exactly as difficult in Conquest as it is in Birthright if you're playing on the same difficulty.  Mozu's the exact same in all routes, but she's at her worst by far in Birthright due to the circumstances surrounding her. Being fast and fragile isn't unique or particularly beneficial in this route, her access to the Archer class is nothing special, and your team most likely will already be full of crappy units who need babying. I did say I wanted to use her, but... ehhh.  The deployment slots here are actually really limiting. This isn't even close to everyone I want to bring! Hmm...  Fine, scrubs only. No Rinkah or Hana. Hopefully this won't be too hard without all the people in my army who can actually deal damage.   It takes 3 units working together to take down a single Faceless. Reaching Mozu in time might be tricky! My more competent units will be going for her...  ...while the Scrub Squad will sit here to slowly farm EXP. Hayato might be awful at base but they were at least nice enough to give him a D rank in scrolls. The defensive boost from the Ox Spirit will help him!  ...okay maybe it doesn't help him that much. Felicia is entirely unconcerned, she looks like she's about to ask the Faceless if he wants a towel to dry off his bloody knuckles.  This time Felicia will supervise from a distance, allowing her Demoiselle ability to kick in. This isn't Awakening, passive skills don't work when the units who have them are paired in support formation.  Time for levels galore! Azama is the Effie of Birthright, he's weirdly good at everything except what is supposed to be his job.  Azama doesn't need to be Setsuna's support partner for them to gain support points from combat, he just needs to be next to her when she attacks. With this formation I can build support points between everyone very efficiently.  Hayato is very much a growth unit. His averages are quite good and he's very physically tanky for a mage once he gets going, but it's the "get going" part that's the problem.  Orochi is being demoted to stat backpack for Subaki as soon as he gets the Bolt Naginata.   Speed for Subaki and Setsuna. For Subaki it's a rare surprise, for Setsuna it's all she ever gets anyway. I always thought it would have been more fitting in terms of her personality for Setsuna to have terrible speed but great bulk and luck, but ehh.  Just in the nick of time! Don't worry, we're not the Nohrian army. We are blameless in this debacle.  Oh right I forgot you can't just give Mozu kills in this chapter. Hmm...  Maybe Kaze can weaken some enemies enough for her to get the finishing blow. I want Kaze paired so I can get the Dragon Herbs but otherwise have no real plans to use him, and I don't know if I do want to use Mozu at all, so sticking them together kind of makes sense?   Hayato's got quite a high strength growth, he makes a really good Oni if you reclass him as soon as you recruit him. Unfortunately I wasted my only Heart Seal on Kevin who still thinks he's in a physical class.  I had forgotten about this! Somehow I thought Kevin had already hit level 10.  Just in time, too! The power of royalty-free music inspires the commoners to power through this hardship... although I'm pretty sure most of the characters in Birthright are all upper class themselves. Orochi was the late queen's personal retainer.  It's actually quite difficult keeping everyone alive even before considering the possibility of giving EXP to Mozu. Maybe some tonics would have been nice?   There, that's your one contribution for this map. She didn't even get halfway to level 2...   More strength for my magic units. I guess if Hayato manages to stick around long enough to not get replaced by his daughter I could make him a mixed attacker. Maybe even a Butler?  Time to slooowly whittle this stationary Faceless down for EXP while the rest of my army catches up. You can't accuse me of stalling, my army's moving as fast as they can! They're just bad.   Kaze's levelling up a lot despite not getting any kills. He's very helpful for setting other people up! Soon he and Kevin will hit A rank together and I won't have to worry about either of them.   Oh, I wasn't expecting them to kill the boss on their own... I can't be mad about this level, Hayato needs the bulk badly.   Not really comparable to Orochi's level 5 stats... At least he's faster. These are pretty on par with his averages too. Maybe he's just bad.  Well that was tedious. Next time give me more deployment slots!!!  No unit stats because I've got an invasion to fight next update. Just like this paralogue it's only there for grinding, I may as well hold off on showing stats until all the free EXP maps are done. Speaking of holding off on things, I've decided to limit myself to one analysis per map. Birthright is massively frontloaded with recruits and I don't want to keep writing 4 of these at a time. Plus it'll mean I have something to say inbetween otherwise extremely boring maps like the Ice Tribe village or that one swamp with Leo.  Hinoka Sky Knight (HS: Spear Fighter) A+ Support Partners: Sakura (Shrine Maiden), Azura (Troubadour), Setsuna (Archer) Personal Skill: Rallying Cry (allies within 2 spaces deal 2 more damage in combat) Pair-Up Stats (C B A S): Res Lck Str Spd+Res Growths (With Default Class): HP: 45% (45) STR: 45% (55) MAG: 15% (15) SKL: 40% (50) SPD: 45% (60) LCK: 40% (60) DEF: 35% (35) RES: 40% (60) Like Subaki? Well here's a Sky Knight with equal or better bases in every single stat! I guess that's not quite fair to say when Hinoka is 3 levels higher than he is, but she does join the chapter after he does... While not quite your typical pegasus rider, Hinoka's stats are at least a little more in line with what you would expect from one. Her base growths are all very well balanced, but with class growths added on top of them she's fast and lucky and resistant. Her strength is also pretty high by Hoshidan standards, although a 55% growth coming off of a base value of 9 isn't hugely impressive. Two fliers are generally better than one so I wouldn't say she invalidates Subaki, but it'll be a long time before his defense growths kick in enough to give him any meaningful advantage over her. I don't have all that much to say about Hinoka, she's just a solidly good unit. It's easy to think of the Guard Naginata as being her personal weapon, especially since she's the only unit capable of wielding it when she first joins, but don't make the mistake of making it her only one - it's weak and inaccurate and will drag down her otherwise great offensive capabilities. Use it only when she needs to take a lot of hits or if you're deliberately sabotaging her damage output to set up a kill for someone else. You can give it to Subaki or Oboro or even Silas later on if you want a dedicated tank. Otherwise Hinoka has all the tools that royals tend to get - she can activate dragon veins and she has an amazing personal skill that lets her be useful without even needing to participate in combat. Rallying Cry might not have the power of Camilla's Rose's Thorns, but the extra tile of range on it makes it so much easier to take advantage of. There are plenty of fast weaklings in Birthright who can turn that extra 2 damage per hit into 4 more damage dealt per round of combat. Hinoka can work with just about any of the classes in her arsenal. Falcon Knight is a solid choice in terms of stats, and despite having a slightly worse magic growth than Subaki her base is high enough that she'll be better at magic than him anyway. A Bolt Naginata build is perfectly viable on her, but keep in mind that unlike Subaki her strength is high enough that not using it is a bit of a waste. Rally Speed also combines excellently with Rallying Cry. Kinshi Knight's got worse stats all around but Hinoka makes a good anti-flier, especially if she can A+ Setsuna to pick up Quick Draw without needing to reclass. Spear Master sacrifices flying utility for better combat all around - I wouldn't recommend it in the early or mid-game where her stats are already good enough and high movement helps a lot, but when you reach the endgame gauntlet that starts with Camilla it's not a bad choice to switch her into it to deal with the huge amount of decently powerful enemeies you'll be facing. Basara could work for a Bolt Naginata build if you really want, but I wouldn't recommend it. As always Rend Heaven is a great skill to pick up though. Shrine Maiden from Sakura is one of the many "could maybe work but why would you" reclass options this game gives you, Troubadour from Azura is a fun novelty and Demoiselle could work well with Rallying Cry but otherwise isn't worth it, Archer from Setsuna is great for getting cross-class skills from Kinshi Knight but isn't really something Hinoka wants to change into herself. Pros
My Rating: As good as it looks on her, I can't stand her hair colour on anyone else. It's too red!!!
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Dec 11, 2021 17:15
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Hinoka is a really solid unit that's wasted on Birthright. Her aura would be amazing on Conquest (Sakura's too). Not that you need it, but her going Kinshi means that she can spread her aura better since she can plink enemies with arrows.
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Dec 11, 2021 19:34
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Hinoka's hair looks good on some characters. I paired her with Silas in my Birthright game, and Sophie just feels right with that hair.
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Dec 11, 2021 19:54
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Man I had forgotten how many of Birthright’s characters are just really kind of lovely. The Mozu map was kind of painful. It doesn’t help that so many of the characters would actually be a bit interesting with a Heart Seal, but you only get one. What were they thinking? For myself, I threw it on Azama and had no regrets. Apothecary into Mechanist for a hideously effective 1-2 range tank.
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Dec 11, 2021 20:24
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On the other hand, Birthright also has baffling Heart Seal options. Saizo gets the exact same option as Kaze. Setsuna gets Ninja which is even worse at doing damage. You don't have a single first gen Apothecary but three units have it as a Heart Seal option, including Orochi who's pretty useless at it. Rinkah is the only way to spread Oni Savage since no 2nd gen kids start with that class, with the only exceptions being Hana (who can get it from marrying Hinata) and Orochi (who can get it by marrying Hayato).
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Dec 11, 2021 20:35
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I did an all Heart Seal run on Conquest once, and everyone was pretty viable. Trying to do the same on Birthright was just painful. Edit: Chapter 7 on Birthright with Ninja Rinkah, Samurai Kaze and Pegasus Azura is painful. Also on the list of poor decisions is Oboro is your only Spear Fighter. Takumi can pass it to Setsuna and Hinoka could give it to Subaki. Orochi and Azama can also share Apothecary with Hayato and Sakura, and now I'm thinking Subaki and Hayato might be competent in those roles. Bad Video Games fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Dec 11, 2021 |
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Dec 11, 2021 21:40
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Keldulas posted:Man I had forgotten how many of Birthright’s characters are just really kind of lovely. The Mozu map was kind of painful. ApplesandOranges posted:On the other hand, Birthright also has baffling Heart Seal options. Saizo gets the exact same option as Kaze. Setsuna gets Ninja which is even worse at doing damage. You don't have a single first gen Apothecary but three units have it as a Heart Seal option, including Orochi who's pretty useless at it. Rinkah is the only way to spread Oni Savage since no 2nd gen kids start with that class, with the only exceptions being Hana (who can get it from marrying Hinata) and Orochi (who can get it by marrying Hayato). Walla posted:I did an all Heart Seal run on Conquest once, and everyone was pretty viable. Trying to do the same on Birthright was just painful. Oboro can at least spread Spear Fighter around with her A+ supports. Spear Fighter Mozu is surprisingly fun, and if I do commit to training her I'm going to try and make her into one. All these cool classes that barely saw any representation makes me wish Hoshido wasn't wasted on Birthright.
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Dec 12, 2021 16:35
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 Time to get invaded! There's not really much point to Invasions in Birthright where grinding is free... I guess they're a chance to test out your castle defenses without needing to go online or interact with other players.  But first I should probably sort out my castle. Falling into traps is Setsuna's whole thing, but this is somewhat of a scary situation to think about.  Rice is Hoshido's defense boosting ingredient. After my Conquest LP it feels a little anticlimactic to find some this early.  Now I can use this rice to cook up some tasty jelly donuts for Lilith! Yum yum yum. ...I didn't actually mean to do this, I've just wasted 1 of 2 of my valuable defense boosting ingredients for no reason.   Yumis have a whopping 3 base might over the standard D rank melee weapons in Hoshido, and with forging the damage quickly racks up. They also increase a unit's resistance by 2... Making bows much stronger than other weapons makes a lot of sense in terms of balance, but it's weird how much better yumis (yumi?) are than bows. Bows might be more accurate but that's not worth +2 res and higher power!     B support for Kevin and Kaze, C for the rest.  Now for the free EXP! ...or not. After numerous failed attempts at this invasion I switched my castle to a boring tryhard layout with multiple chokepoints. There are numerous styles of castle you can pick from but the best is always the Nestran one, it's got waterways that can be used to make enemy movements more predictable.   I had 2 game overs, one from Hayato getting overwhelmed and the second from when I forgot that enemies would try to seize the throne and left mine wide open for a Lancer to sit on. I'm pretty terrible at castle battles because I have no idea what the enemies will try to do - sometimes they go for your units, sometimes they go for buildings, sometimes they go for the throne and ignore everything else. As a general rule they seem to take whichever action would annoy me the most.  Only the boss has skills. Elbow Room + Quick Draw = 7 more damage than his displayed attack, which can lead to some unexpected deaths if you're not paying attention.   On the left and right are various Assorted Dudes. They're not too tough on their own, but there's more of them than you'd fight in Conquest. Large groups of decently hard hitting enemies are tough to deal with in wide open maps!  Subaki with the Guard Naginata is my one actually bulky unit so he gets to bait the enemies. Will they actually attack him? Who knows!  Everybody else has to wait outside the enemy's range like a coward. I didn't show my deployment slots, but Rinkah still isn't here - Mozu stole her slot instead.  I have no idea when they do and do not go for the bait. It's got to be consistent, but if it is I don't know the rules.  Some enemies hit Subaki and some ignore him. I assume the ones that ignored him can't hurt him?  I guess I've have to swap his weapon out for something worse. This is supposed to be the easy route, why aren't you all running head first into the brick wall I've left out for you?   No strength! This is starting to become a problem. At least Camraderie is a cool skill, it's the opposite to Relief from Awakening in that it heals you when you are near allies. It's good for keeping Perfectionist active, but also bad for letting healers get EXP.  Units who get into battles on bridges will be shown fighting in the canal for whatever reason. I hope Hayato is tall enough to climb out.  I bought the Brass Yumi for Setsuna because it's slightly more accurate. Once she's a Sniper she'll have no trouble hitting, but that's then and this is now and her skill is surprisingly bad for an Archer.  Yumis are so strong that I don't mind Setsuna getting speed and no strength. I can just forge her a +5 yumi or something silly if it gets really bad.  The Armourslayer is a sword and not a katana, and that means it'll sometimes mean Hana can't double things with it she could normally. In cases like this it's helpful for setting up kills...  This water chokepoint is way easier to manage than an open field.  Birthright's Lilith has a ranged heal instead of a ranged attack. She's much worse like this, you have to stand way too close to her for her to be helpful and she can't defend herself at all. Revelation's Lilith of course can both attack and heal.  Everybody sure is getting speed today! This is... helpful, I guess.  Mozu's still at it. Kaze's helping her gain EXP with some success. I really need to forge her a better weapon...  Everybody is fast and nobody is strong. Speed is nice but I would like to see someone gain strength or magic today please!!!  Here come the Wyverns. My magic users and Setsuna can handle them easily, but there's a lot of them and they hit hard.  Oh, there's an offensive stat. What an uncharacteristically good level! I need a powerful 1-2 range unit to choke a point in Chapter 9, and against all good sense it might have to be Orochi.  Diviners unlock Future Sight at level 10. It can potentially be helpful for faster EXP gain, but an 8% of activating on player phase only if she gets a kill is not likely to come up.  Thank you defense proc from saving me from a misplay! I'm really glad this wasn't a video series so you couldn't see how badly this easy, free EXP map was kicking my butt.  They completely ignored destroying that building... I don't know how the AI works.   Fortunately they delivered themselves right to where all my units were and died. Hayato's fast enough to double with Felicia's help now!  That was harrowing! I need either more deployment slots or for my bad units to get better. Rinkah would have helped but also earned like 3 EXP per kill here.  It is very hard to imagine a situation in which this will be useful... I guess I'll keep it just in case anybody reclasses to something with a sword rank.    B for Subaki and Orochi, C for everyone else. I wonder when I'll start seeing child paralogues get unlocked? I tend to save those for around Chapter 23 to give me as much experience as possible for when the game suddenly gets difficult, but maybe I'll do one or two of them early.            Here are everyone's stats. Rinkah will finally get to come back for the next chapter... Next time: Birthright's first difficulty spike  Azama Monk (HS: Apothecary) A+ Support Partners: Subaki (Sky Knight), Hayato (Diviner), Kaden (Diviner) Personal Skill: Divine Retribution (When unit is unequipped, adjacent enemies that deal damage to this unit receieve half of the damage back) Pair-Up Bonuses (C B A S): Str Spd Def Str+Lck Growths With Default Class): HP: 55% (55) STR: 50% (55) MAG: 20% (30) SKL: 40% (50) SPD: 45% (60) LCK: 40% (55) DEF: 40% (40) RES: 20% (40) Meet Azama, the man so dedicated to trolling and being deliberately unhelpful that he picked the class most unsuited to his personal growths as a joke. He is all the memes about Moulder from Sacred Stones made real. Azama is Birthright's Effie in that he's a unit with amazing growths stuck in a bad class with a poor Heart Seal selection, although unlike Effie his A+ supports are a bit better. Azama has average to good growths in every stat with the exception of magic and resistance, both of which are boosted by the Monk class, although if you want to make the most of him he really wants to move to a class capable of attacking physically instead. As a healer he's okay. With a Sun Festal he doesn't really need to worry about stats in order to heal good, and he's bulky enough that you won't have to worry about messing up his positioning. Divine Retribution can be mildly helpful, but it's just a worse Counter and I'm pretty sure it won't earn him any EXP if it kills. But make Azama into any physical attacking class at all and suddenly he's fast, powerful, and physically bulky all in one. Great Master lets him attack with naginatas while still keeping his healing capability, and you can promote him into it as early as level 10 for immediate use, but the most fun way to use Azama imo is to have him steal a physical class from whoever he marries. Apothecary is unfortunately one of the worst physical classes he can have unpromoted, being locked to 2 range limits him and so does the class's terrible base speed. It does however let him promote into a Mechanist, giving him reliable 1-2 range and even better physical bulk. Merchant's also fun if you want to stack as much damage as possible with Spendthrift, although that skill can be very hard to obtain in Birthright without grinding. Onmyoji may be a waste of his terrible attack but Azama will be decently competent as one thanks to his good bulk and speed. An Azama who marries Orochi can pair up with her to make use of her pair-up bonuses and Magic + 2 skill to deal decent damage. I don't tend to count DLC classes when writing these but if you make Azama a Dread Fighter he'll break the game in half and probably be able to solo most maps right from the start. Sky Knight's a pretty good physical class for Azama to grab from Subaki, especially since it shares weapon ranks with Great Master when promoted. If you're going for an Onmyoji build for Azama then you should just have him marry Orochi for Diviner skills rather than supporting him with either Hayato or Kaden. Pros
My Thoughts: I still haven't forgiven him for Conquest
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Dec 12, 2021 16:35
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Yeah, Azama being one of the best physical units is kinda baffling. His stats are fine, but he's still 'just a lance class' after promotion. Except despite everything he always turns out to be absurdly good and caps out with Renewal by endgame which makes him even better. I think once I had him marry a Corrin with Wyvern talent. Wyvern Lord Azama is a terror.
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Dec 12, 2021 17:05
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I always want to make Azama a Spear Fighter. I think he'd be good at it, and he and Oboro with Renewal seems like a good time. Also Apothecary being slow isn't too much of a problem since Azama will be strong wnough to nearly one ahot everything.
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Dec 12, 2021 18:05
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I'm amused at your Hayato's persistent refusal to gain Magic. Really making a name for yourself, kid.
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Dec 12, 2021 21:26
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For runs that use the free DLC, Azama is by far the best choice for the Dread Fighter seal.
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Dec 13, 2021 05:07
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  Birthright's first few chapters are Conquest's Hoshido chapters but in reverse, except thankfully with no Kitsune. We can skip straight from Fuga to Zola without fighting any foxes.  Now it's our turn to be the prisoners! Zola could kidnap the whole Hoshidan royal family and it wouldn't make a difference to me, I'm not allowed to use them.  Is Kevin MacLeod famous? His music is everywhere on youtube but I imagine most people don't know where it's from or that it's all by the same guy. Kidnapping a guy who releases his music for free doesn't seem like a particularly profitable idea.  Time to beat Zola again. This chapter is kind of like a defend map at first, although if you choose to hang around for too long then you'll screw yourself out of some treasure. All your units begin in a small room with a large number of enemies out to get them. This chapter is a bit of a difficulty spike - not only do you have to be a lot smarter about your positioning to avoid death, you're also under a large amount of time pressure that even Conquest doesn't normally give you if you want to open all the chests. It's not super difficult or anything but this and the two maps afterward are trickier than you'd expect for Birthright.  On the way to Zola's room are a few stationary paired-up enemies. They won't move to attack you, but they will take some muscling past.  Zola himself is a little scary. His stats are decently high and the Mjolnir tome not only has a great crit rate, it also deals 4x damage on crit like all killer weapons do in this game. You can clobber him with Kaze or Hinoka without any real issue, otherwise he's got a decent chance of killing your units instantly.  There are 4 trees with dragon veins like this, 2 on either side. I don't think I've ever used them, but I assume they're useful? Birthright has a lot of dragon veins I never really bothered with.   There are also 2 chests with a Speedwing and 5000 gold. Two Outlaws will make a run for them as soon as the map starts, and will escape with the loot from the east and west sides sometime around turn 9. Not a problem if you're stomping the map with a souped up Saizo or Kaze, but there are a lot of enemies to muscle past that can make this map harder if you're trying to use your worse units.  My plan for surviving the first few turns involves buffing Orochi with tonics to have her clear most of the initial enemies but oops, I can't afford any! I guess I can sell something...  I suppose I do have 3 healers already, and I'll probably end up with even more. Birthright gives you more healers than Conquest does I think, at least in the early game.  The combination of an HP tonic, a defense tonic, and Subaki's pair-up bonuses make Orochi's stats look quite good for a front-liner all of a sudden. I think she'll be able to tank like this...   Nope, 2 speed short of doubling Cavaliers and 1 magic short of one-rounding Dark Mages. I need more.  Daggers are worse than shurikens in every way but accuracy and Birthright enemies are slow and easy to hit. I don't need this.  Now Orochi is ready for the front line. This specific position allows her to benefit from Kevin's Gentilhomme skill while also creating as much free space for the rest of my units as possible. In a normal run she'd be able to benefit from Sakura and Hinoka's passive auras and maybe even Azura's Inspiring Song, but not this time.  Everybody else pairs up to get out of the way. I'd rather as much of the initial wave gets one-rounded as possible so I can speed over to cut off the Outlaws at their escape route.  I was hoping Hayato could tank the front gate at first, but that's never going to happen with his stats. He's just here to take one hit from an enemy that couldn't have reached Orochi anyway.   All the mages get KO'd, unfortunately most of the Cavaliers dodge one hit thanks to their WTA. All the initial enemies have 2 or 1-2 range weapons so if I'd have tried to tank them with Rinkah then they'd have avoided any counterattack in retaliation.  Orochi's fairly high-level so they weren't worth much EXP, but I don't care if she got this level out of it. I wonder if I should have her use a Partner Seal to grab Darting Blow as soon as she's hit her S support...  I'd like for the rest of my units to unpair but right now I need to clean up and there's not much room for them to go besides.  Strength is nice.  Rinkah grabs Kevin to one-round some mages with near-perfect accuracy. I should try to work on getting him a C rank support with everyone, he can't attack anyway so he's best off helping my other units like this.  Making everything completely safe requires one slightly dubious hit chance. Skill is unfortunately one of Hayato's dump stats. He's bad at all the things Orochi is good at, just like Nyx and Odin.   Turn 2 ends and Takumi's retainers show up as green units. This is... quite a contrast to Leo's retainers showing up and being immediately told not to take the lives of any enemy combatant. We're the Good Guys this time around so killing is okay!!!  Just like Hinoka they'll head to Corrin but not actually recruit themselves like some green units have the decency to do. Numbers are helpful this chapter so you do want to grab them both as quick as you can.  Unofrtunately Kevin is current attached to Rinkah, so he must be extracted...  ...and replaced with support partner that helps her to double this Cavalier. It's nice to have her back!  Kaze is quickly becoming the Azura of this run, his levels are all the same and they don't mean much in the long term. I do prefer posting levels mid-combat to give a better idea of how the map is unfolding, but sometimes they feel like a waste of space.   Time for some MAD (Moderately Assured Destruction). Oboro's parents were killed by Nohrians so she's out to make more orphans to keep her company.  It's Oboro! Oboro and not Hinata who joins separately from her and has to stand around like a useless bum for one more turn until Kevin can talk to him. Oboro is a Spear Fighter and pretty good at everything. She's very helpful for combat in this chapter, although you might want to swap her Steel Naginata for something lighter.  Time to attach her to Mozu and turn a great naginata user and a bad one into one slightly less terrible naginata user. This is absolutely a waste of resources but I want Mozu trained and I also want her to A+ support Oboro.  Absolutely worth it.  Mozu is Mozu, at least she gets good levels reliably.  Strength's starting to become a problem, Subaki! You've gone 6 levels without getting a single point. At least consider proccing that 20% magic growth...  A large number of Cavalier reinforcements will start pouring from these stairs soon, I want Rinkah to be ready for them. The eastern escape point is just past those paired-up enemies to the north.  I think I'm making pretty good time to stop them! Each one opens their respective chest on the same turn and will escape on the same turn too.  Here's Hinata, probably the most forgettable first gen non-prepromote unit in all of Birthright. He's Subaki but a Samurai. Personally I'm under the opinion that he's a little underrated and Oboro is somewhat overrated... But Oboro is still way better.  Hinata will remain where he is and bravely defend Kevin from this lone Cavalier. I want him to support Hana but she's too far away...  Time to remove this roadblock before the reinforcements arrive. Each exit is guarded by a Dark Mage/Knight combo, both of which can't move but can attack from 1-2 range. Birthright likes these.   Thank you for getting my treasure! Now please deliver it back to me.  Just like Oboro, Hinata also needs a lighter weapon in order to double the faster enemies in this chapter. His bases are actually quite good but his growths unfortunately are not.  From turns 5 until 12, Cavalier and Dark Mage reinforcements will alternate from the east and west stairs respectively. They're not too tough if you're ready for them and they can be quite easily farmed for EXP, but if you can't make it to their spawn point in time then they will rapdily become tough to deal with and make the escaping thieves very hard to chase down.   Obviously I am going to farm them. You might look at Setsuna's growths and the res bonus from yumis and think Setsuna might make an effective mage killer like Niles, but her base resistance just isn't good enough for it.  Dark Mages make the best food for Mozu. She can double with with Oboro's help and they don't need too much weakening to go down.  Breaking through this barrier is however top priority, I really want that speedwing. Originally I thought Orochi was too slow to consider wasting it on her, but now I'm not as sure...   It would be nice if Hayato had good growths to justify his bad join stats like Mozu does. Yeah he's bulky for a mage and his averages are good, but they sure don't feel good right now!  Turn 9 and the Outlaw is above to escape. I thought I was making good time!  But even if I can't kill him I can force him to move around Rinkah and waste a turn. I think he's as good as got.  Nice to see Orochi getting magic again. I keep wanting to call her Oboro...   Each of the thieves also come with their own change on hand. I'll consider it the finders fee... for the treasure I'm not giving back. What's the neutral kingdom of Izumo going to do?    Hayato skillfully avoids the stats I actually want, Kevin has way too good stats for being a pacifist, and Kaze continues to be Kaze.  Now the thieves are gone I can establish this backwards chokepoint. Now I'm the one stopping the enemy from getting out, mwahahaha!   If Azama marries Setsuna I can make him a Kinshi and put those good stats to use. Rally Luck is mildly helpful for various things but very rarely makes too much of a difference. It boosts luck by 8 instead of 4 to make up for luck not being so useful.  I guess in this universe Rinkah's abs are real and not fake. That's fine by me, it's nice to have someone capable of killing things.   Hana and Hinata finally get to fight side by side. They're both Samurai so they'll inherit each other's heart seal classes, which is good for Hana and not so good for Hinata,  Not much left to do but farm now. Seems like the reinforcements can't block themselves, if an enemy's on the stairs they just spawn around them. More EXP for me!  More tasty EXP. Stats are nice but what Mozu really needs now is D rank naginatas.  I can't farm forever though, I do need to actually make some progress. I could just walk around these guys but they don't move so they're easy EXP.  Oops, now that Hayato's no longer underleveled his personal skill won't boost his damage anymore. I'm feeling the effects of his awful magic stat...  ...and will be for some time. I am so replacing you with your daughter.  Once the reinforcements have dried up there's only the boss left. Zola's got some units guarding him but not the horrible legion of Sorcerers and Heroes he has in Conquest.   I can only assume this Door Key was meant for LTCers blitzing through the map with Malig Knight Jakob so fast that the Outlaws never get to open the treasure rooms themselves. Hana seems good enough at opening doors with her sword!  Hinoka's your best bet against this guy, but Subaki can also survive him... Zola however can also survive Subaki.  Not much else to do until Kaze gets closer to sling some debuffs at him. On a crit he'll do 12 damage, which is a bit scary but not lethal.   Kaze weakens him to set up a kill for someone I'm more willing to invest EXP in. The odds are good but they aren't perfect...  Rally Luck and Silas's support make things as good as they're going to get for her.  She's now 2 levels higher than Hinata who barely got to fight this map, whoops!  Well I played fast for the first half of that map. I could have parked some bad units on the stairs and belined for the boss as soon as I could, but that would have gotten me less EXP.  Even in Birthright Nohrians love to kill their allies and undermine their own war. I guess in this case Zola had already lost.  But we're the good guys so we get to keep him! Not as a playable character or anything, he's just going to be hanging around for a little while. Next time: Ninja Heck
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Dec 13, 2021 17:51
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Your units are turning out wonderfully strangely. Rinkah is actually buff as heck and Hayato can't gain magic to save his life. I love the little stories that come out of every playthrough of these games 
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Dec 14, 2021 05:37
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Hinata is yet another 'what if we took this unit, but upended their stat growths from their class?' unit. He's kinda like an Oni Savage in a Samurai class (which is fine, it's his Heart Seal option). Honestly he gets carried by his bases pretty hard, since even in Samurai there's a chance his Str and Spd will start falling behind. But he'll do better than Hana usually so he's your swordie til Ryoma, I guess.
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Dec 14, 2021 16:04
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theshim posted:Your units are turning out wonderfully strangely. Rinkah is actually buff as heck and Hayato can't gain magic to save his life. I love the little stories that come out of every playthrough of these games ApplesandOranges posted:Hinata is yet another 'what if we took this unit, but upended their stat growths from their class?' unit. He's kinda like an Oni Savage in a Samurai class (which is fine, it's his Heart Seal option). Honestly he gets carried by his bases pretty hard, since even in Samurai there's a chance his Str and Spd will start falling behind. But he'll do better than Hana usually so he's your swordie til Ryoma, I guess.
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Dec 14, 2021 18:01
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 I don't often use these... There is that one you can get in Chapter 4 if you reach the princesses before Sakura gets clobbered, but I wasted it feeding all the kills to Rinkah.  I bought an Arena and now the resource grind can begin. I foolishly did this fight before reading Oboro and Mozu's C support, whoops. I probably should have gone for getting more coral so I could forge Mozu's Brass Naginata too...        Lots of supports for everyone. If I'm careful enough I get get Kevin and Kaze's A support and then never have to worry about wasting a load of Bloom uses on Kaze to grind support points again! The game might give you lots of rods for free but they are still expensive to replace.  Seeing as I'm probably going to bench at least some of the units I'm using right now, I could probably justify using this... I don't know who on though. Kaze's not level 10 yet.  Hayato would be my main choice I think, Orochi's turning out better than him and his daughter will most likely replace him. Going Basara would boost his stats nicely... but it also wouldn't be much help in the next chapter against Ninjas.  I'll consider that for another day. For now I'll give Orochi the Speedwings because she's slow but not so slow that doubling is entirely beyond her. Still won't be doubling ninjas though!!!  May as well upgrade Setsuna's bow even further, too. I would like to beat the next chapter without Takumi if possible, even if my rules don't forbid it. It's not quite the Fujin Yumi but it's close!             This is all I have to get me through the milder and yet still horrible obligatory ninja chapter. I'll figure something out... Incidentally, I'm going to start keeping track of who got what stat boosters, and also work out how everybody's comparing to their average stats. Just for fun! I won't be doing the average stats thing every chapter, that would take forever. I might do it once or twice more before the run ends? Rinkah: Seraph Robe Hana: Goddess Icon Orochi: Speedwing Kevin: +1.15 HP, +0.25 STR, +1.4 MAG, +2.55 SKL, +0.4 SPD, -1.3 LCK, +0.1 DEF, -2.35 RES Kaze: +0.4 HP, -1.7 STR, +0 MAG, -0.9 SKL, +0.9 SPD, +0.6 LCK, +0.5 DEF, +0 RES Felicia: +1 HP, +0 STR, -1.25 MAG, -0.25 SKL, +1.25 SPD, -0.75 LCK, +1 DEF, -0.25 RES Subaki: +0.7 HP, -2.4 STR, -1.2 MAG, +0.4 SKL, +0.9 SPD, -0.7 LCK, +0.3 DEF, -0.5 RES Orochi: +0.55 HP, -0.7 STR, -0.6 MAG, -1.2 SKL, +1.25 SPD, +0.2 LCK, +2.25 DEF, -2.85 RES Azama: -0.35 HP, +0.35 STR, +0.1 MAG, -1.5 SKL, +0.2 SPD, -0.65 LCK, +0.2 DEF, -0.2 RES Setsuna: +0.4 HP, -0.4 STR, +0 MAG, -0.8 SKL, +0 SPD, +0.6 LCK, +1 DEF, -0.6 RES Hayato: -0.5 HP, -0.15 STR, -2.95 MAG, +1.4 SKL, +0.05 SPD, -0.85 LCK, -1.2 DEF, +1.3 RES Mozu: +0 HP, -0.4 STR, -0.6 MAG, -0.8 SKL, +0 SPD, +0 LCK, +1.8 DEF, +0.4 RES Hana: -0.8 HP, -0.2 STR, -0.8 MAG, -1.8 SKL, +0 SPD, -0.2 LCK, -0.6 DEF, -1.2 RES Rinkah: -2.2 HP, +2.4 STR, +1 MAG, +1 SKL, +0.6 SPD, +1.2 LCK, -0.2 DEF, -0.6 RES Wow that took way too long to write up. Rinkah's not quite as blessed as I had thought, Kevin's doing very well despite it not actually mattering, and Hana is doing average or worse in literally all of her stats. I still think she's been quite useful so maybe that means she's better than I gave her credit for...? Oh and Hayato sucks too but I already knew that.  Setsuna Archer (HS: Ninja) A+ Support Partners: Hinoka (Sky Knight), Hana (Samurai), Kagero (Ninja) Personal Skill: Optimistic (Unit recovers 1.5 times as much HP than normal when healed with a staff) Pair-Up Stats (C B A S): Spd Spd Res Skl+Spd Growths (With Default Class): HP: 30% (40) STR: 20% (35) MAG: 0% (0) SKL: 30% (45) SPD: 60% (75) LCK: 30% (35) DEF: 15% (25) RES: 40% (40) Archers are often one of if not the worst class in every Fire Emblem game in which they appear, and the units stuck in that class often have terrible stats in addition to their poor movement and choice of weapon to really hammer home the point. It's somewhat of a series tradition to give you a green-haired Archer right at the beginning of the game who sucks. Setsuna is unfortuately that Archer... ...but she's not as bad as she could be. The wide open yet densely packed maps and enemy-phase focused nature of Birthright might not be great for Archers, but Fates as a whole did at least try to make its bow locked units a little less terrible. The Quick Draw skill grants them +4 might on player phase, effectively a +4 boost to strength for a class locked to 2 range, while the absurd power of yumis compared to other Hoshidan weapons gives them a small niche as reliable damage dealers. That power gets multiplied by 3 whenever they hit a flying unit, which is often good enough to secure a OHKO. Setsuna's high speed combined with the combined power of yumis and the Archer class makes up for her having the lowest strength growth of any non prepromote unit in a physical class. Unfortunately none of this makes Setsuna good. Her speed might be nice but her other stats range from mediocre to terrible. Her bases, while not bad for her weirdly low join level, are way below what they should be. Being locked to bows still sucks even if they are less bad than usual, and if you really want people to shoot things then you've got Takumi and Reina and maybe even Yukimura to do it better. She is yet another underlevelled unit who needs babying in a game full of underlevelled units who need babying. Attacking from 2 range does at least make it safer for her to grab EXP from chip damage, but at the end of the day if you're going to be funnelling EXP into someone with bad bases you'd be better off funnelling it into the likes of Mozu or Hayato. Promoting Setsuna early is probably your best bet to make her useful, she's not reaching 20/20 without grinding. I will probably promote her at level 20 anyway but I am a bad example. Going Sniper gives her better stats and better skills, although even if she's promoted at level 10 Setsuna will struggle to unlock Bowfaire for a very long while. The flying utility of Kinshi will help make Setsuna more useful but it will also tank her stats even more, and losing 1 strength upon promotion hurts when your strength is so bad already. Mechanist could probably be useful, although a unit as weak and as fragile as Setsuna would probably struggle to get much use out of 1-2 range weapons. Basically anybody who could become a Master Ninja will end up being a better one than Setsuna so I wouldn't bother. I guess she might appreciate having Locktouch and Poison Strike? Sky Knight's not a bad class for Setsuna to grab, especially since she can get its skills by promoting into a Kinshi, although neither Darting Blow or Camraderie are particularly suited to her. Samurai's skills aren't suited to Setsuna's role as an Archer either. Kagero just gives her Ninja and she already has that anyway. Optimistic is a personal skill that would be really useful on a unit with high HP who frequently fights on the front lines and takes large amounts of damage. It is not useful on Setsuna! Pros
My Thoughts: "Haha what if fictional character was on drugs???" is the lowest hanging fruit there is... but it's kind of funny to pretend Setsuna is just really high
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Dec 14, 2021 18:01
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That direct Hana/Hinata comparison basically says it all for the two samurai. For whatever it's worth, Hana does her job. You say she's a below-average one, but she has higher offensive stats than Hinata could manage even if he procced growths on them in both levels of difference. She's still in her optimal point, where her fragility doesn't start comprimising her attacking yet. Late-game she gets one-shot by Berserkers, so probably want a Robe for her later. I didn't really bother because by that point, Ryoma, but still. Take the most effective unit in Birthright and funnel your Dracoshields into him, and suddenly it doesn't feel important that Hana gets one-shot anymore..... she became his stat/dual guard backpack for me.
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Dec 14, 2021 18:39
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Ahhh, Setsuna. They just forgot to give you growths. Up her growths by 10% in every stat and she'd be decent, but still not good. In my Bad Units Run, Setsuna ended up incredibly blessed in every stat except Speed...and she was still slightly worse than an average Takumi in everything but Speed and Res. Quick Draw and yumi let her still hit pretty hard, but unless you're specifically doing a run like this there's really no reason to ever use her, and she's even an awful mom thanks to her poor growths.
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Dec 15, 2021 00:17
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my experience with orochi is i think what led me to focusing speed so hard in Heroes, leading to giving units with 27 base speed upwards of 40 out of spite revelation may be loving abysmal but it also gives you hayato at a reasonable time so whos to say if its all that bad
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Dec 15, 2021 01:05
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I married Setsuna to Ryoma for kicks to make her queen of Hoshido. Shame about her son, even if she makes his intro suddenly make a whole lot more sense as his mom. 
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Dec 15, 2021 01:40
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Cythereal posted:I married Setsuna to Ryoma for kicks to make her queen of Hoshido. I'd like to think Setsuna would make the best ruler of a country in a universe where Anankos exists, he'd have absolutely nothing to work with in regards to evil brainwashing schemes. She's too chill to have any anger that could be channeled into anything and all you've have to do to foil her evil schemes is make sure an animal trap exists within 3 miles of her.
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Dec 15, 2021 17:47
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  Time for a more mild variant of Ninja Hell. It's like the first circle of hell instead of the fourth or fifth. Still not somewhere you want to be... I'd rather we jump straight down the Bottomless Canyon.  Oh Nohr certainly "strong-arms" them in Conquest alright. Seems like the Mokushu can never win.  We have a pet Zola now. He's here because Nohr rejected him and Kevin doesn't want to kill anyone. He's actually kind of an interesting character, at least by the standards of this plot. He won't be sticking around for long.  Time for Kotaro's Forest! A forest is like the diet version of a cave when it comes to JRPG dungeons. This is yet another rout map. As you can see there are many ninjas, but thankfully none of them come with any skills...  Kotaro himself is nowhere near as powerful as he was in Conquest, which I suppose makes sense considering he's been downgraded to merely one of the many enemies you must defeat to end the chapter. The Dual Shuriken makes him vulnerable to swords and tomes, something you should have a decent amount of. The Kodachi severely limits his offense so ideally you want to bait him into equipping it.  Here's the first instance of the diabolical pair-up trap - this Spear Fighter won't move, but the Archer he's paired up with will! Be careful when defeating him or standing close enough to bait him into switching to his friend.  Deployment slots are unfortunately quite tight here. I want Oboro to come along to help support Mozu and maybe slap some Seal Defense debuffs on enemies, but unfortunately there's not enough room.  Dragon veins can trigger traps to turn terrain into spikes that'll damage units and lower their avoid. Stepping on certain spots will also trigger traps to turn the terrain beneath into spikes, although veins will appear to undo them. It's not worth activating them unless you really want the extra hit on the ninjas and deactivating them isn't permanent, stand in the same spot and they'll just come back.  These three enemies on the front line don't actually move, so this starting position isn't quite as dangerous as it looks. Many enemies will come forward to attack during the first few turns so it's best to hold your ground.  All I need to do is defeat that one unhighlighted Ninja and then suddenly I've got a safe space to put most of my units! Unfortunately I don't think I have anyone capable of taking him out in one hit from the one spot that's out of range.  Oh and this chapter is already unfun even with Takumi and Azura, it's even worse without. You know things are bad when you're unequpping your allies to help them take more hits...  First order of business is to kill this guy. Even with Rinkah's help Setsuna can't one-shot him, but she can get close! Unfortunately she'll also face a 1% crit chance unless she's got the Brass Yumi equipped.   An incredibly nice level for Setsuna, and a so-so level for Azama. That one point of luck unfortunately does not remove the crit chance.  Various enemies will start moving towards you from turn 1. You can't really tell who's going to move until they start moving.  Oh hey, a new ally showed up! I'm sure he'll be very useful : )  Just kidding, I can't deploy Azura so I can't recruit him just yet. This is for Conquest's horrible endgame!!! Hinata is so fired.  He'll come back, don't worry. I think he's like the one character Corrin doesn't recruit, outside of Revelation at least.  This spot is semi-defensible, but I'll have to kill enemies fast if I want it to stay that way. The stationary ninjas make it difficult to find safe spots to attack from, besides Rinkah and maybe Subaki I don't have many units who can stand there without dying.  Magical Mozu! If only Nyx were here to grant her the Dark Mage class to take advantage of that sweet sweet 1 magic.  1% crits aren't worth worrying about on turn 1 but I care a bit more about avoiding them now. With Quick Draw Setsuna could make mincemeat of these enemies, but she's a way off right now.  I should promote Kaze as soon as possible. I'm not taking him to endgame and he'll be incredibly useful in the next chapter with a Brass Yumi...  Oh and this is cool too. Now I wish I'd gotten him to level 10 before this map.  Could it be? Strength? He might even reach double digits before level 20 at this rate. At least his defense is good.  I'm really going to start getting overwhelmed if I don't start baiting and defeating enemies the turn they approach me. I don't want to feed EXP to Kaze but he's definitely my best option for defeating enemies fast at this point.  He's also bulkier than he seems thanks to the dual guard. As long as he blocks the strong hits from Archers he can tank shurikens and scrolls fairly well.  I have to keep showing images of the map just to show off how many of these assholes there are. This map plays so much more differently when you're forced on the defensive, if I had Azura and Takumi I'd have torn through all of these jerks by now.  Taking out everyone who approaches is no longer viable, everybody has to run while Rinkah stays behind. She doesn't fear the ninjas, but the Diviners do hurt...   As is demonstrated here. I'd like to pretend this was all calculated to be safe!!!  Eh, why not? Sure we destroyed Mokushu in Conquest for taking hostages but we're not Nohrians now, we can do what we like!  A weirdly good first level for Hinata. 15 speed is quite fast, I'm hoping he can rest on those laurels for a while.  Here come the spikes. I don't think there's any particular hint to where they'll appear in advance, but they're only a mild annoyance. Good for healing EXP and healer support points if you want!  Setsuna's on a roll!!! Who needs Takumi anyway?  After a few turns reinforcements start appearing in pairs from the south of the map. They will charge straight for you like most reinforcements do. They'll keep coming for a while, so they'll slow down the map even more...  The true purpose of bow users in Fates is to set up and take advantage of attack stance as much as possible. I get to take advantage of the Yumi Nikki multiple times per turn if I'm careful!  Rinkah can easily wall off the Spear Fighter reinforcements, although even with super blessed strength she struggles against their bulk. I really wish clubs were a little stronger.  A Diviner and an Archer will also spawn from here every other turns for a few turns. They're easily farmed for EXP if you're close enough to shut them down, otherwise they're a constant annoyance who will harass you while you're busy with other enemies.  These levels are wasted on you, Kevin! Why is your skill so high!!!  As you can see, I have gotten overwhelmed very quickly. My biggest problem is that there's just nowhere to stand - there's too many trees in the way and all my units are weak and need assistance KOing anybody. I miss wide open fields!  Basara Mozu??? I think she's gained more magic than Subaki despite the 5% difference in their magic growths. Hell I think she's gained more magic than he has strength.  These incredibly flimsy chokepoints are the best I can do to keep people alive. Kaze's only a frontliner because he builds his guard gauge so quickly.   Kaze is carrying me, Azama is making me consider leaving him on the front lines while my other units stand behind him.  I think I might have picked a bad spot to camp. The constant reinforcements from both sides and tight corridors make it very difficult to reach the enemies I need to defeat to keep people alive... At least the enemy is also struggling to find space to hit my units.  I very much appreciate Orochi's uncharacteristically high bulk. She'll do well once I can buy a Horse Spirit.  It's unfortunate that Kaze is so useful as an attacker because he's also instrumental as a support partner. With enough speed to double, Setsuna suddenly becomes a monster. Generally it's better to keep her unpaired but sometimes it helps!   The enemies start retreating to be healed across the map while my own healer disappoints me greatly. I guess I do have the other two.   Go Setsuna! 15 speed + Quick Draw is very powerful right about now, especially with her 13 mt forged yumi.  Why am I even deploying half of these people? There's some clear winners here already, I could just coast through the game with them.  Access to better weapons helps Mozu more than stats right now. Being stuck with a 4 might lance really bites. She might benefit from a Javelin too, although Subaki currently has my only one.  Many turns of taking out reinforcements later and the only enemies left are ones that won't move until baited. Some of their ranges overlap but overall they're not scary...    Just a matter of cleaning up now. That level seems more fitting for Hinata, physical bulk and not much else.   Kotaro blocks the entrance to this chest, forcing me to fly Kaze over since defeating him would end the map. I neglected to buy a Rescue prior to this because I'm stingy so this is nice.   Clowning on this idiot is easy, the Dual Shuriken reverses and doubles the weapon triangle so WTA severely impacts his hit and avoid.  He switches to his Kodachi on his turn but it doesn't help him much. I guess now he gets to be named after a toilet! Forever immortalised in porcelain...  If Hana continues to be Hana and Hinata continues to be Hinata then that's fine, I can keep them paired up and swap them when appropriate.  28 turns of boring turtling. At least with my army growing stronger this should be the last time I'm forced to play slow?   Oops, I think Hinata hit Takumi so hard he gave him brain damage. I bet we can play all sorts of fun pranks on Takumi now he thinks he's invisible!  Also you absolutely would have been executed for killing your retainer had he not lived. Killing your master seems like it would be a death penalty sort of thing, probably lots of lost honour too.  This line always bugged me, I feel as if being shot wouldn't so much leave a wound as it would a hole straight through to the other side. Although he did shoot Elise in a Conquest cutscene and she was fine so maybe his bow fires joke arrows.  Oh and here's Kagero. She was kidnapped, now she's not. Allegedly she was originally planned to be the elder Hoshidan royal daughter, which explains why she's more relevant to the plot than Hinoka. Don't quote me on that though.   Takumi's a guy I can't use, Kagero's the worst ninja but still pretty good. I'm also probably not using her! Next time: midnight lasagna fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Dec 15, 2021 |
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Dec 15, 2021 17:47
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 It's so annoying to get given resources I can easily harvest in my castle. I know how to fish, I'm already eating for life! Eating for life and a day is like infinity plus one, it doesn't mean anything.  Oh right I threw a Pokeball at this generic Archer for some reason. I wonder if he's good?    Well he's got a lot of HP compared to my other two. If this were Conquest he'd have some mean and horrible skill I could use.     A nice amount of supports. I guess this explains why Setsuna can be a ninja, she's naturally stealthy. Shame the class it doesn't fit her at all statwise!  Setsuna's levels so far have been surprisingly good, but I can't keep threatening to give her stat boosters and then never do it. So long as she can double consistently then she might be one-rounding enemies most of the enemies she faces.  Literally every enemy in the next chapter is a flier and I promised I'd promote Kaze. Those stats look very good for this point in the game... Maybe I should promote units early more often!             These stat updates are going to get less and less interesting as enemy levels start to stagnate and level ups become rarer. I guess that's my fault for stubbornly not grinding in the route that advertises itself as the one that allows it!  Hayato Diviner (HS: Oni Savage) A+ Support Partners: Azama (Monk), Kaden (Apothecary*) Personal Skill: Pride (Unit deals +3 damage when fighting units of a higher level (promoted units count as 20 + current level) Pair-Up Stats (C B A S): Spd Spd Res Skl+Spd Growths (With Default Class): HP: 50% (50) STR: 30% (35) MAG: 40% (55) SKL: 30% (40) SPD: 45% (60) LCK: 60% (65) DEF: 40% (40) RES: 20% (30) *even though Kaden cannot access this class himself Hayato, adoptive son of the Wind Tribe's chief! He is a super underlevelled unit with a personal skill that rewards being underlevlelled. Do you know what would be even better than doing +3 damage to enemies of a higher level? Actually having a magic stat. Hayato is kind of like Odin is to Nyx as he is to Orochi. He's good in all the stats she isn't and has high growths across the board, but starts way underlevelled for no real reason. He's very fast and has actual mixed attacking stats, but his magic is somewhat underwhelming and his resistance is really bad for a magic class. If trained he'll do quite well, but it's more of a question of if he's worth training, and the answer is... not really. At least his daughter is good! Train Hayato and you'll have a pretty speedy mage who's fairly decent at taking hits. His magic won't be great and the poor growths and bases of the Diviner class will somewhat limit his natural bulk, but he'll do fine by Birthright standards. As a Basara he'll be even bulkier and decently capable of attacking physically, but not enough that suffering through Basara's E rank in lances will feel worth it. You're probably better off attaching him to someone else who wants to use magic and then replacing him with Rhajat as soon as his S support is unlocked... Alternatively, you can reclass him. Heart Seals are in short supply but Hayato makes a surprisingly good Oni Savage - he'll start with 19 HP at base and 10 defense, and have a 70% and 60% growth in each one respectively. Save Mozu's paraloge for right after he joins and you can pair him up and throw him into a field of Faceless to grind out EXP and club rank for a few turns without him being in too much peril. An average 20/1 Oni Chieftain Hayato will have a 20/1 Chieftain Rinkah beat in every stat but skill and speed, and even then skill will be Rinkah's only significant advantage over him. He'll also have a much higher magic stat and an existing tome rank he can make use of, assuming he doesn't stick with the Bolt Axe. Even his problem of starting with an E rank in clubs won't matter too much when Rinkah's stuck in the exact same situation. It's maybe not the best use of your only Heart Seal before Chapter 13, but it's an interesting way to make an otherwise underwhelming unit good. Just keep in mind that Hayato's not going to reach double digit skill until 20/10 on average, so save some Secret Books for him. Great Master is an okay class for Hayato in terms of stats, but he'll have to grind out the weapon ranks for it. Apothecary is a weird and fun class for Hayato to try but again it's not really worth it, unless you're doing a gimmick run where you try to get Replicate on as many units as possible. Poor Hayato only gets to have 2 A+ support partners in Birthright for some reason. At least he has Benny and Fuga in Rev! Pride is just there to make training Hayato a little less painful. +3 damage isn't worth deliberately depriving him of EXP or anything, just be aware that after a certain level he's suddenly going to become a little weaker. Pros
Cons
My Thoughts:  Pretend I photoshopped Hayato's face on top of the Scout's.
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Dec 16, 2021 20:58
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On paper, Hayato actually has better growths in Odin in all the ways that matter. He SHOULD be good. In practice, he's saddled with such bad bases and being underleveled to poo poo that it's a crapshoot whether or not he turns usable. He also doesn't invalidate entire sides of a map with one pair-up partner either....
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Dec 16, 2021 22:58
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Hayato is reminiscent of Ricken in Awakening, except that Ricken was even worse, since he dumped Spd in exchange for Skl, in a game where Skl wasn't really that important. He's alright. He's one of those units that can turn out good if you baby him a bit, and he does take less effort to become good late game compared to someone like Mozu or Hana. He's still not great, but in a game full of not great units, he's probably one of the better ones of the bad bunch.
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Dec 16, 2021 23:21
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Ricken in Awakening was just a confusing case, because he comes later than Miriel, with worse growths, and worse second seal options. Then again, mage balance in that game was just off. For some reason, the healers have really awful bases themselves, as evidenced by the time I did a level 20 second seal Maribelle.... and she was still worse compared to the level 14 or so second sealed Miriel.
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Dec 16, 2021 23:32
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Maribelle was really shaky herself. Lissa will naturally pick up Healtouch, which nullifies Maribelle's higher Mag for healing. She's so fragile that she really can't handle taking a hit from physical enemies, and even with her decent Spd/Luck I wouldn't count on her dodging enemies. She also comes right before a wave of desert maps that make her horse a bad option. You can promote her early and she'll do okay, but her offenses are still kinda shaky. I've had some Maribelles turn out fine, but Lissa will usually turn out better and more consistently. It's also worth remembering that Second Seal drops your level back down, so your Miriel had at least 24 levels of growth in her.
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Dec 17, 2021 08:04
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I didn't communicate that well. That Maribelle leveled to 20, and then second sealed to Mage since I was doing a gimmick paired with Chrom, so I wanted her pass on as much stat as possible. That didn't really work out, since her bases are so bad and her growths worse by enough that the Miriel who second-sealed 12-14 was outperforming her stat-wise despite Maribelle getting like 6-8 extra levels on her. Granted, that MAY be because for some reason, all the non-Miriel mages suck in a glaring way. Tharja needs to shove a lot of Goddess Icons down her throat before the crit stops being an issue, Henry is late as balls and really slow, the healers start with really bad base stats for some reason, Ricken has no magical second seal class to change into. In contrast of Miriel being recruited next to immediately (though Lissa is earlier of course), and her one issue is fixed by a single Seraph Robe. Then she'll happily double-counter a dude to add more damage when receiving a wave. On Lunatic, I found that any first genner needs to second seal since honestly the challenge is kind of lazy by just going STATS. So you need people to take advantage of the faster leveling of unpromoted to cap stats before promotion for real. Though considering that I found Miriel to outperform Laurent as well, that may just be that Miriel is really good.
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Dec 17, 2021 08:57
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Tharja and Henry are fine, Tharja can get by a lot on Nosferatu. Henry too, though his accuracy and speed is a bit shakier. Lissa usually turns out alright for me since she's gonna level anyway passively, and then she can just get by doing snipe kills. She could get SPD-screwed, but I've usually had Lissa turn out decent. Ricken is trash, the only mage that's as bad is Second Seal Virion (why). The only good thing his Second Seal options are for is giving him Luna. He's like Odin, but Odin at least performs okay in Dark Knight. Laurent is generally poor because there's no dad that gives him everything he wants. He ideally wants MAG and SPD, but no dad gives both outside of Robin. The best you could do is just give him a speedy dad and let him loose on low RES enemies. He's got Dark Mage so he'll never be outright bad, but he's not as good as the job as the 1st gen ones without tunneling for it.
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Dec 17, 2021 12:29
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  Fed up of ninjas, Kevin and company decide to become pirates instead. I hope ninjas vs pirates is an old enough joke to be vintage funny and not just lame.  Do we have an army at this point? Is there any sort of plan for what happens when we meet up with Ryoma? Sometimes it's difficult to tell the scale of the forces you have at your disposal in these games.   Zola is still here. "Among us" is such a loaded phrase now, I feel like it's going to be impossible to include in a localisation without someone accusing the writers of making a reference.  Time for a Purple Guys chapter. This one guy doesn't have a flying mount and is not at all indicative of the enemies we'll be fighting in this map. He must be pretty strong if he swam.  Just like in Conquest, this boat map marks the end of our adventures in one country and the beginning of those in another. It's the exact same boat as in CQ, but the chapter plays very differently - every single enemy here is in a flying class, and that means they're all weak to bows! There's a steady stream of reinforcements based (almost) entirely on turncount rather than your progress through the map, and the enemies will slowly approach in groups as turns go by. It kind of plays like a defend map, but I wouldn't play it like one - every single enemy will aggro at the start of turn 14 and the more you leave alive when that happens the worse a situation you'll be in.  The boss is quite scary. He's a Wyvern Lord with a Killer Lance and an enemy-only 1-2 axe with no downsides. He will be the very last unit on the map to aggro.    This chapter marks the beginning of generic prepromote enemies showing up in regular maps in Birthright. Chapter 11 is also when they start showing up in Revelation, and yet Conquest doesn't throw them at you until Chapter 14. Possibly because Conquest's enemies are tough enough already that they didn't want to make things harder? All of them will collapse to a couple of yumi shots but you should watch out nonetheless.  I still don't have enough room for Oboro. I doubt I will until Chapter 14 at the earliest. If you're not playing under my challenge ruleset then you really should be bringing Takumi, he'll one-shot everything here with the Fujin Yumi.  These dragon veins create vortexes that reduce unit avoid by 20% and take 4 points of movement for a flier to move through, effectively creating anti-flier buffer zones. They are extremely useful for setting up defensive chokes and preventing your army from getting overwhelmed. Just don't get your own fliers trapped in them! That means Hinoka probably shouldn't be triggering the veins herself unless she has a grounded ally to escape with.  First course of action is for Kevin to summon one. Don't worry, I'm sure this won't have any effect on the ship itself...  Setsuna hitches a ride with Kaze so the two of them can reach the other enemies faster. It's a good idea to be proactive, the more enemies you take out now the easier things will be once they start aggroing later. Just don't aggro them if you don't have any immediate way to deal with them.  Orochi teams up with Subaki to bait these wyverns. She's fast enough to double, she'll absolutely shred them.  The generic unpromoted enemies are mostly filler, but they can wear you down with repeated attacks. Generally if you're in range of one you're in range of another.  I could forge this, I could keep it... I'm definitely going to have at least one more club user down the line.  A friend appears at the beginning of turn 2. This is a good and normal thing for someone to say, don't worry.  Reina is like all green units in this game and will move towards Corrin to be recruited. Even Darros all the way back in FE1 would recruit himself... I want to get her now before she flies into the tornado and gets herself stuck.   Reina isn't a murderer like Peri, she merely enjoys the killing she is paid to perform as a soldier. I don't think that's illegal, it's just really weird.   That is pretty much the plan, yes. Reina is the first "Corrinsexual" you will encounter, which is to say a prepromoted unit who can S support Corrin and Corrin only. Her base stats and growths are both perfectly fine and only very slightly below the 20/20 averages of the rest of your cast. She is 100% your get out of jail free card for this map. She'll only get 1 EXP per unpromoted unit killed, but don't hesitate to use her to make your job easier if you need to. She's also got a really cool design. Look at that scar! If someone gave me a scar like that I'd have to thank them, it looks rad as hell.  The rightmost part of the ship makes an excellent camping spot to trap enemies in and feed them to my weaker units. They'll be hanging around here until the reinforcements dry up.   My overeagerness to recruit Reina did unfortunately put Kevin in range of some enemies. It's going to be hard for Mozu to contribute much to this chapter, I really wish I had another Heart Seal to spend on her.  The nice thing about pairing up Hana and Hinata is that they effectively share a 10 slot inventory. They're both sword users and can swap weapons freely at any time.  The problem with building Subaki around using the Bolt Naginata is that it does not help him use weapons that are not it, and those are all he has right now. He's really not good for much against these wyverns.  It's weird that I'm using Setsuna to bait strong promoted enemies, but I trust her! She's fast enough not to get mowed down by two quick hits...  ...although she is unlucky enough to risk a crit. I never really bother calculating enemy crit chances on the fly, maybe I should start doing so.  It's okay, it didn't happen. Setsuna's bow effectively has 39 might against these enemies and even before factoring in her own stats that's enough to OHKO most of the map.  Strength! Again? I guess that's a nice surprise.  Reinforcements will constantly fly in throughout the map, moving further left as the chapter goes on. Most of them appear on a turn timer but there are a small amount tied to your horizontal progress west across the ship.  Kevin hitches a ride with Reina to activate the middle vortex. Having this up should make clearing out the next few enemies very easy.  Unfortunately Setsuna's at the whims of the weapon triangle when it comes to shooting foes. Ninjas are helpful for dealing with these.  The enemies come with some fun weapons to steal. The Illusory Yumi is weird, I don't think I've ever made much use of it.   Having someone competent deal damage is enough for Mozu to earn EXP. I could have had her use the Brass Naginata here risk free, oops!  Okay Setsuna you're scaring me now. Strength is super super nice but don't start getting it and nothing else!  Orochi does what Hayato doesn't!  This really is a nice little EXP farm. Enemies can't occupy tiles with obstacles even if they can fly, so Hayato's only attackable from the right.  Here's a fun little thing I learned the last time I played this map - the presense of a Falcon Knight with a Sun Festal is enough for injured enemies to flee towards them, but as far as I am aware they weren't actually programmed to use it - they'll just stare at the wounded soldiers parked next to them doing nothing. It's funny, but I would rather get rid of this guy now than let them escape to show it off.  Hianta makes a decent frontline tank. With Hana boosting his speed he's able to do most of what she would while also being bulkier.  I don't want to feed Kaze any EXP so I've been neglecting to have him actually shoot things, he's merely softening them up. I don't really understood why a shuriken shot from a cannon isn't as effective as an arrow...   Some levels for the scrubs. At least Hayato got magic...  Hinata might be bulkier and fast enough to double anything he needs to, but Hana still has him beat in raw power. She's the only one who can one-round these wyverns.   Setsuna gets speed and the world is returned to normal, while Azama quietly builds his stats in preparation for ripping off his shirt when he finally promotes.  Some of the regular enemies have Nageyaris, which are the enemy only cheaty naginatas that have 1-2 range with no drawbacks. I'm not used to regular enemies having them...  I think Mozu's stronger than Subaki now. I don't really have much to say about the gameplay in this chapter... Were this a video LP I'd have a cool montage of every OHKO Setsuna gets.  2 more turns until the boss and his cronies make their move. Orochi is baiting this high res Sky Knights because... I don't know.  There goes the Falcon Knight. Its Sun Festal is untouched!  Most of the remaining enemies are Steel Axe wyverns. With Kaze's help I'm pretty sure Rinkah can wipe them all out on enemy phase!  Oops, maybe I should have counted her speed stat. I don't think this is going to kill her, but it might be a problem if she can't double and one-round them...  Here they come. The map's a bit more crowded than I was hoping for, Rinkah might be in some trouble?  Oh and there's a guy with Mjolnir now too. Kind of a mean surprise to spring on you right at the end of the map!  My plan to pop the dragon vein and hunker down has been slightly ruined by Setsuna standing on it. What idiot put her there???   I guess Setsuna needs to move before I do anything. She hitches a ride with Felicia and pops the boss for a pretty nice level. MVP!  This looks much more surviveable. Rinkah's bulky enough to go another round against the wyvern brigade, I just need to get rid of the others.   Hinata gets an alright level, Rinkah is 100% committed to being freakishly strong. I approve.  The range of these tempests is bigger than it looks. Circles don't really translate to grid-based games all that well!  Oops, I forgout about you. Good thing I had that dual guard!  I don't have any safe way to deal with this guy actually. Oh dear, I'm going to have to cobble something together or risk a crit...  A flash of insparation leads me to bring Orochi over with a pair-up chain and oops she dies cleanly to a Mjolnir-boosted crit...  I'll just take the risk with Hana. She dodges what would have been a fairly unlikely crit...  ...and that's still not enough to kill. Hmm.   Pair-up chain the second will solve this problem. I really need to save these stupid mistakes for the start of the map and not the end.  At least Orochi ends the map on a high note. Now that she's started doing good I should maybe think about her A+ support? Rinkah Kagero or Oboro...  Close calls are usually what I end with in this map. Too many high crit weapons.   Oh no, there was one enemy I missed! Zola noooooooooo   Just kidding he's fine. I'm just putting this here because it's set up for one of the few story moments in this route I like! Next time: The chapter I said it would be last time but actually
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Dec 17, 2021 22:16
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 Reina the murderhobo is amazing and totally worth simping for even if Reina is old enough to be Corrin's mom
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Dec 18, 2021 00:16
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Oh wow. That Hayato and Subaki just hurt to look at.
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Dec 18, 2021 01:00
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Their primary role seems to be spawning children who are better than them at this point.
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Dec 18, 2021 04:11
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That's just a bad Subaki. His strength should be around 11 or 12 by now. This map is why I always use him at least through the mid game. He and Hinoka can easily handle the entire south section, especially if you position Reina properly for attack stance snipes. Reina is the best Pegasus in the game. She starts with more strength than a 20/1 Hinoka and more speed than Subaki, and she remains useful all the way to end game. Setsuna as a Kinshi can almost match her speed and will be stronger on player phase, but it will still take her 4 more chapters to get there. Also I've never seen Orochi with that much speed.
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Dec 18, 2021 15:01
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 My Iron Yumi stockpile grows... I'm not sure how many of these I can reasonably expect to acquire and forge, but hopefully it's enough to get the Yumi Nikki stronger than the Fujin Yumi.  This was very satisfying. Maybe I can't use Takumi against ninjas during actual maps, but at least he can crit them to death in the arena.  This Snake Spirit was held by the Mjolnir Malig Knight that almost caused me a reset last chapter. It's stronger than Nohr's Lightning tome, but also has a higher weapon rank requirement and is much less accurate. Instead of a -2 mag/skl debuff it halves the user's magic until they attack again. I guess Orochi might want it? She can't reach A rank until she promotes though.  This is the sort of thing I'd want to give to a freshly promoted Master of Arms. Basically useless for unpromoted units with only a single weapon rank.  At long last, Kevin and Kaze reach A rank. If you don't get this support before Chapter 15 then Kaze will have this conversation while dangling off of the edge of a cliff, falling to his death presumably because he took too long explaining his tragic backstory. It's a bit silly.     Otherwise I got 2 accidental C supports, Azama & Setsuna'a A and B for Hana and Hinata. The fast building supports between retainers make them very easy to pair up, it's a shame Setsuna!Mitama won't be very useful.             There were quite a few levels last chapter... I'm not sure how many I'll see in the next, it's quite difficult to do it "properly" without skipping almost the entire thing. I'll definitely have to invest in some tonics if I don't want to do it the cowards way and just fly Kevin to the end.  Mozu Villager (HS: Archer) A+ Support Partners: Oboro (Spear Fighter) Personal Skill: Forager (Recover 20% of max HP at start of turn if on Woods, Mountain, Waste, or Field terrain) Pair-Up Stats (C B A S): Skl Lck Spd Skl+Lck Growths* (With Base Class): HP: 40% (50) STR: 50% (60) MAG: 15% (15) SKL: 60% (70) SPD: 65% (75) LCK: 55% (75) DEF: 45% (55) RES: 40% (40) *With Aptitude's 10% boost Previous analysis Mozu might be the exact same unit in all 3 paths, but Birthright's environment is least kind to her. Her Archer access isn't special, her Brass Naginata is no longer a novelty, and in the end she's just another underlevelled fast and fragile unit who needs to be fed EXP to work well. Heart Seals are also in shorter supply, so spending one on her to give her a better class is more of a tough sell. She can still pass Aptitude onto a second gen unit I guess, although both the Villager class and Mozu's personal pair-up stats are really, really bad, so whoever she's glued to won't benefit much from her support. Spear Fighter is at least a super cool class for her to inherit, and that's exactly what I'm going to have her do. Yeah sure it's an incredibly long and time-consuming process that only results in a Spear Master who's slightly better than Oboro when trained, but shush.
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Dec 18, 2021 18:04
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I’m not sure I understand your dislike for Mozu in Conquest? I found her very useful there for next to exclusive access to Kinshi Knight.
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Dec 18, 2021 21:17
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The impression I got is that they like Mozu a lot in Conquest, because she's a Hoshidan unit in the Nohrian campaign - it's Birthright where she's unimpressive, because she's no longer "out of water".
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Dec 18, 2021 23:58
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Archers are also more useful in Conquest. In Birthright enemy fliers are usually wyverns, which have high Def at the cost of Res, while in Conquest you fight pegasi which are the opposite, so archers are much more likely to exploit them for easy kills. Archers also have weapon triangle advantage against ninjas, and there are definitely a few key maps where you face quite a few ninjas. Finally, it's the competition. In Birthright Mozu has to deal with competition from Takumi, who pretty much blows away any other bow wielder. In Conquest there's Niles and Shura, both of who can have shaky Str growths. Every other bow option is either after promotion (Selena and Laslow), or a child unit.
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Dec 19, 2021 02:41
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