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echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004

finally relied on the camera picking the exposure, after setting to a stop under, and had great success

shoot last night went well. but god drat I nailed the exposure. well, the camera did after I set the compensation BUT I chose that number so maybe I was the one who needs congratulate

the camera can show me clipped values but only on already taken pics. would be lovely if I could do it in the EVF. sony probably does :rolleyes:

I should really start charging money lmao, this dude is getting unrelenting value

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Beeftweeter
Jun 28, 2005


holy shit this os has cinepak?!?!?


sony, panasonic and olympus all do zebra striping lol. there's no viewfinder, but the pentax does also

my panasonic and sony gear will also overlay a histogram in the evf, even the G100 and that was like $400 new. but that's not very useful imo

definitely start charging anyway. get you some new gear :haw:

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



i bought a used rebel t7 (with the kit lens) and an old canon 70-210mm FD lens and a FD to EF adapter for it

im gonna take pictures of the moon and jupiter and stuff with them

and also of poodle jones and little jones and ms jones the nature preserve where we go hiking (see also: bugs, flowers)

i dont know anything about lens selection or anything, i just found that zoom lens at goodwill for $25 shipped and figured it was worth it to play around with

right now i'm expecting to end up with a bunch of old lenses, and to spend more on adapters for old lenses than i do on either the old lenses or actual new lenses. i'm not really planning on buying new modern lenses unless it turns out that i just can't do what i want without doing so

it's been overcast every night since i got my telescope so we'll see what happens :shrug:

anyway my photography knowledge is basically the rule of thirds and a general understanding of what f-stops are so im happy to be pointed at beginner resources (because searching mostly just turns up lovely seo spam). i also have basically zero interest in post-processing. like, i guess i'll do some stacking for astrophotography stuff because you kind of have to (esp if you don't have an equatorial mount), but i dont really want to involve sitting at a computer any more than i have to in this whole endeavor

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004

Beeftweeter posted:

l
my panasonic and sony gear will also overlay a histogram in the evf,

I have that and itís very good in general but it doesnít show clearly if a small part of the image is clipping

oh well best suck it up I ainít buying any more gear for a long time lol

nurrwick
Jul 5, 2007

Achmed Jones posted:

m happy to be pointed at beginner resources (because searching mostly just turns up lovely seo spam).

if i may be so bold as to suggest...

just take pictures. take a lot of pictures. set the camera to jpeg mode, maybe even pick one of the jpeg processing modes that canon probably includes on the camera, and take pictures of everything you think looks interesting. maybe eventually start thinking about what YOU like and don't like about the work you've done. maybe look at other people's pictures and compare on the basis of something like overall bright/dark look, or framing of the subject, or how the subject interacts with the world around it, and then try to take pictures in a way that works on you understanding the relationship between your point of view and the jpegs you want to produce. don't spend a lot of time looking at the image on the camera... check it and move on. stay in the moment. etc etc. eventually you should develop a style that reflects your own interests, and then you can start chasing glass that does the specific things you are interested in. you hope that eventually you settle on one area or another, instead of being an idiot like me that wants both ultrawide and telephoto/macro.

personally: i learned not by reading or studying, but just by blowing through my whole student job paycheck on film and processing. there's probably a happy medium, but i loved almost every second of that journey. i imagine i would probably have killed the shutter mechanism in my first dslr if digital had been ready four years earlier than it was.

that said, i'm sure the other folks have thoughts on actual resources, but i want to encourage you to :justpost: but instead :justshutter: rather than worrying about taking bad pictures or whatever. i have a book called Mastering Your Digital SLR by Chris Weston that does a pretty good job explaining the actual mechanics of the poo poo if you want to read more about how the camera actually makes its decisions and why certain things happen (iirc purple fringing, aliasing, etc) that i think i would recommend if you want to get at paperbacks.

also, of course: share dog

Beeftweeter
Jun 28, 2005


holy shit this os has cinepak?!?!?


echinopsis posted:

I have that and itís very good in general but it doesnít show clearly if a small part of the image is clipping

oh well best suck it up I ainít buying any more gear for a long time lol

if you start charging you could though, plus, i already told you to use aperture priority you dork lol



nurrwick posted:

if i may be so bold as to suggest...

this is a very good post. i wish i had some beginner resources or something to share, but to be frank i don't need them so i don't go looking, lol. that said it seems like you already know more than most when they start out, actually (you'd be surprised). imo since everyone has different tastes and priorities it's pretty difficult to give catch-all advice, so basically :justpost:

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004

Beeftweeter posted:

if you start charging you could though, plus, i already told you to use aperture priority you dork lol


aperture priority would allow the camera to make fail judgements about shutter speed, and thatís unacceptable. manual with auto iso is the superior choice

Beeftweeter
Jun 28, 2005


holy shit this os has cinepak?!?!?


sell your camera and get a different one lmao

nurrwick
Jul 5, 2007

Beeftweeter posted:

imo since everyone has different tastes and priorities it's pretty difficult to give catch-all advice, so basically :justpost:

yeah honestly the coolest thing about the idea of being a beginner in this, the future, is that you don't have to pay $12-15 to find out two days later that you screwed up half a roll of film, got ten technically fine shots, and got two you actually liked. that and it's SO incredibly easy to find other people's work and think about how it tickles your fancy, especially once you have an idea how shutter speed, aperture, and sensitivity work together to determine how photons turn into images.

now that you don't have to worry about killing a whole roll of iso 100 film before you go inside again, and now that you don't have to worry about the color balance and latitude of any specific film, it's so much easier to experiment and compare results. i definitely understand why people who started with digital photography now find themselves drawn to the look and feel of film and film cameras, respectively, but honestly? if you like takin pictures and you like what your gear does, gently caress it :justpost:



and i do especially get the idea of 'gently caress postprocessing' - the only reason i think i still spend any significant time doing it is because i'm used to it. i have shot two weddings and honestly, after the first one, the full two and a half days of processing across the ~300 worthwhile pre-show, portraiture, ceremony, and party shots was enough to convince me i never wanted to do that kind of work professionally. do NOT think you are required to live in lightroom for a couple hours after every day shooting. for me, it's easily the least fun part of my day, except for the part where i get to spend time looking at the cool poo poo i got to see earlier. that part's pretty cool. i also still take enough bad pictures that i get absolutely delighted by finding the diamonds in the rough. oh that reminds me, definitely don't ever let anyone tell you that you should get to a point where all the pictures you take should be masterpieces. no faster way to lead to disappointment.

nurrwick
Jul 5, 2007

echinopsis posted:

aperture priority would allow the camera to make fail judgements about shutter speed, and thatís unacceptable. manual with auto iso is the superior choice

my camera won't even let me do auto ISO in manual, because how would it, how is that manual

actually you have highlighted kind of an interesting thing... i only own one mirrorless ilc, and it's the pentax k-01 from 2012, so: does anyone that makes a mirrorless ilc have a custom setting or whatever that lets you drop the camera into a mode that literally is not allowed to overexpose? would be kind of an interesting 'working professional' feature, though i don't think i personally would want to ever use it. i shoot too many way-dynamic scenes, and i hate shadow amplification noise.

Beeftweeter
Jun 28, 2005


holy shit this os has cinepak?!?!?


nurrwick posted:

my camera won't even let me do auto ISO in manual, because how would it, how is that manual

actually you have highlighted kind of an interesting thing... i only own one mirrorless ilc, and it's the pentax k-01 from 2012, so: does anyone that makes a mirrorless ilc have a custom setting or whatever that lets you drop the camera into a mode that literally is not allowed to overexpose? would be kind of an interesting 'working professional' feature, though i don't think i personally would want to ever use it. i shoot too many way-dynamic scenes, and i hate shadow amplification noise.

it depends on what you mean by overexpose, i guess? you absolutely can limit your risk, so to speak, by using ev compensation, but ultimately most modes wouldn't really shoot something very obviously overexposed without you overriding it manually somehow

as an aside i almost never use auto iso, though. i suppose partly that's because i'm used to it: for a really, really long time i was shooting with equipment that would absolutely not give acceptable results above a certain iso and the camera would invariably aim too high anyway. i mean, why wouldn't it? most people can't tell the difference between, say, iso 320 and 400. and that's understandable ó there's a big jump in sensitivity there without much increase in noise, and with jpegs it partially gets obliterated anyway. most newer cams can do much higher isos with way, way less noise than was possible previously, but that still holds true, i think. basically, i'll be the judge of what's acceptable, thanks cam. lol

nurrwick
Jul 5, 2007

i actually started using auto iso this month. pentax has long had this TAv mode on their dslrs (and previously on film cameras the 'green' program shift nonsense i never looked into because i don't use the program modes, just Av) and so they've gotten to be pretty good at riding the absolute minimum sensitivity necessary for the aperture value and focal length/shake tradeoff for any given scene. i use it because i kinda got tired of thinking about it and wanted to let the tool think for me a bit.

that said, i used manual iso selection SO MUCH that it's part of the reason i moved off consumer bodies into 'professional'... using buttons to menu to a different sensitivity took me far enough out of the shooting moment that i'd get pissed off at having to do it. hold ISO + twist dial was a workflow godsend, and in macrotimes, I still drop back into that frame of mind. auto's great for landscapes and quick telephoto of butterflies or whatever.

Beeftweeter
Jun 28, 2005


holy shit this os has cinepak?!?!?


that's another thing, too, actually. when i was first starting out i used lower end equipment obviously, but one of the ways canon used to(? idk if they still do, but before mirrorless i only had canon stuff) differentiate their product lines was to artificially cap the shutter speed, i.e. you couldn't do an exposure longer than 15 or 30 seconds depending on the model and a couple wouldn't go under 1/2500. using something like CHDK was great because it really stretched what the hardware could do, even if it didn't always look fantastic

these days it's generally not something i have to worry about until it's dark, though. even then with the sony it almost doesn't matter, lol

qirex
Feb 15, 2001

nurrwick posted:

my camera won't even let me do auto ISO in manual, because how would it, how is that manual

actually you have highlighted kind of an interesting thing... i only own one mirrorless ilc, and it's the pentax k-01 from 2012, so: does anyone that makes a mirrorless ilc have a custom setting or whatever that lets you drop the camera into a mode that literally is not allowed to overexpose? would be kind of an interesting 'working professional' feature, though i don't think i personally would want to ever use it. i shoot too many way-dynamic scenes, and i hate shadow amplification noise.

my ricoh gr has ďhighlight protectionď mode for auto exposure, Iím sure other vendors have something similar [not fuji]

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004

Beeftweeter posted:

sell your camera and get a different one lmao

sorry that you canít handle my love affair with my camera

nurrwick posted:

my camera won't even let me do auto ISO in manual, because how would it, how is that manual


i mean youíre not wrong, but as far as what mode I have the camera in, itís manual. I used to shoot ďfull manualĒ (where I choose iso too) but have concluded that I am content for the camera to choose the iso, but I donít trust it to do the other two

Beeftweeter posted:

basically, i'll be the judge of what's acceptable, thanks cam. lol

exactly, now you get me

qirex posted:

my ricoh gr has ďhighlight protectionď mode for auto exposure, Iím sure other vendors have something similar [not fuji]

yeah canon has this too. I believe itís not dissimilar to just setting exposure compensation a stop down.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



thanks y'all!

fart simpson
Jul 2, 2005

DEATH TO AMERICA
:xickos:

yw

nurrwick
Jul 5, 2007

my experience has been that i can get multisegment errors of way more than one stop if the object in frame isnít adequately large, which is fine as i also donít need to get it right on the first shot - a swamp darner isnít gonna get bored. but if the camera is metering off the sensorís live image instead, i would think it could get much finer grain information than off the prismís ~86k pixel metering sensor (using my k-3 mk1 as an example - iím sure there are cameras with more density, and I know older and cheaper rigs have the old zone-based metering). it should then be able to completely avoid any highlight or shadow saturation, if you wanted to do that for whatever reason. it would be pretty neat if that could eventually lead to a world where you had imaging sensors that could dynamically change sensitivity of groups of, or even individual, pixels, which would be buck wild. i would assume doing that kind of magic would significantly increase the shutter lag of a camera that had it, but itís fun to dream

[edit: changed 300k pixels to 86k pixels in the metering module. literally nobody would have cared and the point is unchanged, but i was wrong about something]

nurrwick fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Oct 13, 2022

Beeftweeter
Jun 28, 2005


holy shit this os has cinepak?!?!?


some olympus cams can do that actually, i know the om-d em-1 mk5+ does something similar since it has an oversampling mode to interpolate burst shots into something like 48mp. you can set it so that it stacks them in dynamic range instead of resolution

i don't have any experience using it though. i've just got a om-d em-10 mk1, lol

but yeah ilcs and newer cams do much better metering (maybe not echi's though, lmao. it should be better than a person at determining shutter speed unless you're going for long exposures)

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004

next time I have a chance Iíll let the camera decide on some shutter speeds and see what bullshit it comes up with

like iíve said before tho, rule of thumb of focal length = shutter time, I think that rule maybe was fine with film but when youíve got 30mp and very sharp lenses, itís very very easy to introduce camera shake. I shoot at 1/500 to make sure I am 100% free of it, but the camera itself never wants to shoot that fast

why let the camera compromise a shot? why?? why on gods green earth should I hand over the reigns and let the camera gently caress up a shot that I wouldnít have

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

echinopsis posted:

like iíve said before tho, rule of thumb of focal length = shutter time, I think that rule maybe was fine with film but when youíve got 30mp and very sharp lenses, itís very very easy to introduce camera shake.

yes, that rule is from an era when people were shooting tri-x with uncoated spherical-ground lenses. it's definitely not sufficient anymore if you're a pixel peeper.

that said, you might be able to do what I do most of the time, which is run in aperture priority mode, program in a minimum shutter speed, and use auto ISO to boost once it's hit that value. it works

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



my camera came! i wasn't expecting it until tomorow. i have taken some very bad pictures, but here's one that isn't so terrible



my t-mount and stuff for the telescope also came today! which probably means nothing, but i have the ability to take moonpics if it's visible and not raining on me*

* im not gonna complain about getting rained out, this is socal so rains almost never bad

e: idk why it's not showing but https://i.postimg.cc/66MRJJyy/IMG-8286.jpg

Achmed Jones fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Oct 14, 2022

nurrwick
Jul 5, 2007

yesssss dog post achieved!

Beeftweeter
Jun 28, 2005


holy shit this os has cinepak?!?!?


echinopsis posted:

next time I have a chance Iíll let the camera decide on some shutter speeds and see what bullshit it comes up with

like iíve said before tho, rule of thumb of focal length = shutter time, I think that rule maybe was fine with film but when youíve got 30mp and very sharp lenses, itís very very easy to introduce camera shake. I shoot at 1/500 to make sure I am 100% free of it, but the camera itself never wants to shoot that fast

why let the camera compromise a shot? why?? why on gods green earth should I hand over the reigns and let the camera gently caress up a shot that I wouldnít have

to put it simply, if there's camera shake, something is being metered wrong. whether that's iso or shutter speed is an exercise i'll leave to you, but honestly there is no reason you should be setting it manually unless it's a very intentional aesthetic choice


hell yes poodle jones

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004

Beeftweeter posted:

to put it simply, if there's camera shake, something is being metered wrong. whether that's iso or shutter speed is an exercise i'll leave to you, but honestly there is no reason you should be setting it manually unless it's a very intentional aesthetic choice


ok iíll give aperture priority a shot, for what benefit iím not sure.: but if I lose any shots to camera shake imma fly all the way to new york and you have to buy me a beer or a pizza

Beeftweeter
Jun 28, 2005


holy shit this os has cinepak?!?!?


deal

i'll even throw in a different camera lmao

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004

:argh:

Base Emitter
Apr 1, 2012

?

Sagebrush posted:

yes, that rule is from an era when people were shooting tri-x with uncoated spherical-ground lenses. it's definitely not sufficient anymore if you're a pixel peeper.

that said, you might be able to do what I do most of the time, which is run in aperture priority mode, program in a minimum shutter speed, and use auto ISO to boost once it's hit that value. it works

pixel peeping is a disorder

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004

i donít care about pixel peeping except from the angle where having 30.3mp and extremely sharp lens means Iíve got options when it comes to cropping

when I get a moment Iíll post a photo I took the other day and then some 1:1 of it, to emphasise why I want
to keep it as shake free as possible, because of how much cropping freedom it allows me

Base Emitter
Apr 1, 2012

?
its fine to take sharp shots, but its not fine to not take not sharp shots

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

i get the appeal of having cropping potential, but i like to do my framing in the camera as much as possible. it's part of the fun. like sometimes i'll set it to one of the other aspect ratios and use that all day to make myself think about composition differently. yeah you're technically losing pixels by cropping to square in camera but meh. one of my favorite photos i've ever taken, framed 12x18 on my wall, is 6mp and it looks great

Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Oct 14, 2022

qirex
Feb 15, 2001

I know the rule of thumb is handheld down to 1/60 but unless I really concentrate on being still itís probably closer to 120 for me. I shoot people and animals at at least 250 but the fuji auto iso function helps

[1/500]

Corla Plankun
May 8, 2007

improve the lives of everyone
i upgraded my 300m (from a $30 tokina with no aperture mechanism at all) to an SMC Pentax-M* 300mm F4 and I am insanely hyped for how much more detail this thing can pick up. i haven't had a chance to take any really great shots with it yet but the detail on this random grackle photo i took from the passenger seat while my wife was getting starbucks have got me really excited to go on more hikes

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004

love that feeling of excitement

PokeJoe
Aug 24, 2004

hail cgatan


My crow murder is getting big, I got like 6 of those bad boys now

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004

sick photo

shame you couldnít figure out a way to get that toy robot that jerks off into the frame

PokeJoe
Aug 24, 2004

hail cgatan


lmfao

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004




I took this photo of this dude. tbh I am pretty happy with it. the shoot was funny in the way that the looks he was giving the camera were like blue steel from zoolander.


other day I was kinda drunk and came across my own instagram page but I didnít realise immediately and had a moment where I saw my photos but not as my own and I was like these are ok and then realised they were mine and it made me think maybe iím
not so poo poo. this was the beginning of me deciding to value myself.

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004


for the no people that give a poo poo : here's some 1:1 pixel goodness



on my old camera I thought having lots of megapixels was to compensate for how poo poo things looked at 1:1, but now I realise that the lens was bogus

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Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



spent some time puttering around the back yard and taking dogpics while watching tv this morning







it surprised me how not-very-helpful the autofocus is on this camera. it's mostly decent through the viewfinder, but when you try to use the screen _woof_. not a huge deal - and i kind of knew it wouldn't be as good since one of the differences between more expensive cameras is that mine has 9 autofocus points instead of 40something - but i'm still a little surprised

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