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echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004

can you do the entire process there?

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Megabound
Oct 20, 2012

I do my developing upstairs and my printing downstairs but yes, apart from coating my own film and paper I'm self sufficient

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004

you literally know how to do things I do not

tef
May 30, 2004

-> some l-system crap ->
who needs a darkroom?

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004

the weurd al yankovich of czmeras

Megabound
Oct 20, 2012

That looks like a pain to use but also very cool. Is there a filter tray so you can adjust contrast?

President Beep
Apr 30, 2009





i have to have a car because otherwise i cant drive around the country solving mysteries while being doggedly pursued by federal marshals for a crime i did not commit (9/11)

Megabound posted:

My reverse camera room got a big upgrade



fuuuuck. very jealous.

President Beep
Apr 30, 2009





i have to have a car because otherwise i cant drive around the country solving mysteries while being doggedly pursued by federal marshals for a crime i did not commit (9/11)

echinopsis posted:

you literally know how to do things I do not

dude, a little over $100 and you can develop in your bathroom or at your kitchen sink. itís super accessible.

if you do, and you stick with 35mm film, just drop a few hundred more and get a dedicated film scanner too though.

President Beep
Apr 30, 2009





i have to have a car because otherwise i cant drive around the country solving mysteries while being doggedly pursued by federal marshals for a crime i did not commit (9/11)
seriously though. i tried all kinds of dumb, cheap, and jankety scanning setups before i finally pulled my head out of my rear end and bought a cheap and cheerful plustek 8100 and itís one of the best equipment decisions Iíve made.

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004

i'd really love to be able to say I'm not so depressed that I could do anything at all that didn't provide me with instant gratification but ...






like it's occurred to me that the reason I stick with photography (the way I do it), compared to every other great idea (crime committer jumps to mind) lying covered in dust in the corner, is because I can push a button and it's done. if it required more effort, it's likely I wouldn't do it. it's pathetic I know, and probably is also an exucse, but I am really quite well in tune with how down in the dumps I am these days


I enjoy watching you people do and talk stuff though

Beeftweeter
Jun 28, 2005

a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face
i have a canoscan 9000f, i like it

HAIL eSATA-n
Apr 7, 2007

Megabound posted:

My reverse camera room got a big upgrade



i miss skipping class and instead working in my highschool darkroom :allears:

President Beep
Apr 30, 2009





i have to have a car because otherwise i cant drive around the country solving mysteries while being doggedly pursued by federal marshals for a crime i did not commit (9/11)
iíd give my left nut for ad hoc darkroom access

President Beep
Apr 30, 2009





i have to have a car because otherwise i cant drive around the country solving mysteries while being doggedly pursued by federal marshals for a crime i did not commit (9/11)
I really would. i have two kids already and we donít want any more. hell, take the right one too.

tef
May 30, 2004

-> some l-system crap ->

Megabound posted:

That looks like a pain to use but also very cool. Is there a filter tray so you can adjust contrast?

haven't put one on it, i guess i could stick one in, it was mostly a proof of concept

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004

President Beep posted:

I really would. i have two kids already and we donít want any more. hell, take the right one too.

over in the truck nuts thread we have a fine range of replacement nuts so you donít need to feel like less

big scary monsters
Sep 2, 2011

-~Skullwave~-

echinopsis posted:

like it's occurred to me that the reason I stick with photography (the way I do it), compared to every other great idea (crime committer jumps to mind) lying covered in dust in the corner, is because I can push a button and it's done. if it required more effort, it's likely I wouldn't do it. it's pathetic I know, and probably is also an exucse, but I am really quite well in tune with how down in the dumps I am these days

i get it, but if you do decide to give it a shot sometime b&w film is basically impossible to gently caress up and i think you'd probably enjoy the aesthetic. pull some hp5 and admire those lovely, grey blacks

President Beep
Apr 30, 2009





i have to have a car because otherwise i cant drive around the country solving mysteries while being doggedly pursued by federal marshals for a crime i did not commit (9/11)

echinopsis posted:

over in the truck nuts thread we have a fine range of replacement nuts so you donít need to feel like less

tell the truth, theyíre just the ones they make for dogs but repackaged, arenít they?

President Beep
Apr 30, 2009





i have to have a car because otherwise i cant drive around the country solving mysteries while being doggedly pursued by federal marshals for a crime i did not commit (9/11)

big scary monsters posted:

i get it, but if you do decide to give it a shot sometime b&w film is basically impossible to gently caress up and i think you'd probably enjoy the aesthetic. pull some hp5 and admire those lovely, grey blacks

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

if you use diafine it's literally impossible to mess up.

President Beep
Apr 30, 2009





i have to have a car because otherwise i cant drive around the country solving mysteries while being doggedly pursued by federal marshals for a crime i did not commit (9/11)
get some cheap but excellent rodinal and go 2 town.

President Beep
Apr 30, 2009





i have to have a car because otherwise i cant drive around the country solving mysteries while being doggedly pursued by federal marshals for a crime i did not commit (9/11)
echi donít listen to sagebrush. use rodinal.

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

rodinal is my second choice!

but i like diafine bc i never learned to do all the messing with development to change the contrast etc. and i often screw up the exposure somewhat. diafine fixes all

plain old d-76 is fine too tbh. film development is easy. it's printing that is a pain and needs a real darkroom

President Beep
Apr 30, 2009





i have to have a car because otherwise i cant drive around the country solving mysteries while being doggedly pursued by federal marshals for a crime i did not commit (9/11)
I donít have any of the finesse stuff down myself, tbh.

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

i still have my leitz focomat, just like the one on the left of megabound's pic, and i haven't used it in over 10 years. :(

President Beep
Apr 30, 2009





i have to have a car because otherwise i cant drive around the country solving mysteries while being doggedly pursued by federal marshals for a crime i did not commit (9/11)
iíve done semi-stand but thatís about as weird as iíve gotten.

tef
May 30, 2004

-> some l-system crap ->

big scary monsters posted:

i get it, but if you do decide to give it a shot sometime b&w film is basically impossible to gently caress up and i think you'd probably enjoy the aesthetic. pull some hp5 and admire those lovely, grey blacks

my advice for developing? don't use a monobath.

usually the nice thing about b/w film development is that you don't have to get everything exact, like "water is too cold, develop longer" or "water too hot? develop faster" or "agitate more for higher contrast and faster dev time". with a monobath? it's like "develop for 5 minutes at exactly 23c" and even a slight bit of variance radically changes your output. agitate too much? it'll underfix and overdevelop. agitate too little? it'll underdevelop, and maybe develop inconsistently.

although you can reuse the chemicals, they have a highly variable shelf life, and if you look at them funny, they'll go off. in many ways, monobaths are more like c-41 processing, which also require highly specific temperature and times for reproducible results. with regular black and white film development? you can literally do the entire thing on vibes: inexact mixtures, irregular agitation, and casual estimates of development times, and things come out ok most of the time

there's actual reasons behind this, but yeah, if you're worried about loving it up, use oneshot dev/stop/fix instead of a monobath, it's way, way more forgiving for time and temperature

tef
May 30, 2004

-> some l-system crap ->
actual advice: film development is super fun but scanning your own negatives is a huge pain in the rear end

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

^^ also agreed


Again, that's why I like diafine, assuming you can still find it. I googled just now and there's one pack on eBay.

The procedure is literally: pour in solution A for a few minutes. Time and temperature don't matter. Pour solution A back into the bottle and replace with solution B. Let that sit for a few minutes as well then put it back in the bottle. Rinse with water. Fix. Done. All of your images will be properly developed even if you blew the exposure by two or three stops.

Supposedly photojournalists used to keep a couple of bottles of the stuff in their desk drawer along with a daylight tank so that they could develop film for breaking news on the spot in a couple of minutes and be confident that all the shots would come out.

tef
May 30, 2004

-> some l-system crap ->

quote:

All of your images will be properly developed even if you blew the exposure by two or three stops.

to be honest, this is true of most developers and most films, you just might get thin or dense negatives, but nothing that can't be fixed in post

diafine is however, a compensating developer. you tend to get much lower contrast, but as a result your shadows or highlights won't be as blown out. you don't need to do a two bath developer to get a compensating developer, (semi) stand developer achieves the same effect

which is why diafine and stand development are a little tricker when it comes to pushing and pulling film. i would not put delta 3200 through diafine

quote:

Supposedly photojournalists used to keep a couple of bottles of the stuff in their desk drawer along with a daylight tank so that they could develop film for breaking news on the spot in a couple of minutes and be confident that all the shots would come out.

i've also heard stories of dektol for horse races, but the thing i heard about photojournalists was that they tended to pull film, rather than push it, because it was easier to pull details out in development

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



i have no idea what any of this means but would like to understand

President Beep
Apr 30, 2009





i have to have a car because otherwise i cant drive around the country solving mysteries while being doggedly pursued by federal marshals for a crime i did not commit (9/11)

Achmed Jones posted:

i have no idea what any of this means but would like to understand

c41 chemical packs are still called ďpress kitsĒ

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



President Beep posted:

c41 chemical packs are still called ďpress kitsĒ

did you just tell me to go gently caress myself? dang beep

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



the internet told me:

Pushing or pulling film is when you rate your film at a different speed from the one written on the box. Then, you compensate for the difference when you develop it. Pushing will mean giving the film a higher rating and pulling a lower rating

President Beep
Apr 30, 2009





i have to have a car because otherwise i cant drive around the country solving mysteries while being doggedly pursued by federal marshals for a crime i did not commit (9/11)
pushing film is when i see what the developed shots look like, and weeping, try to push it back into the canister.

tef
May 30, 2004

-> some l-system crap ->

Achmed Jones posted:

i have no idea what any of this means but would like to understand

1. iso is a lie, box speed is a myth
2. you can over or underexpose film a few stops, too
3a. an overexposed film will start to crush the highlights,
4a. you can compensate for an overexposed film by under development, lowering the contrast
3b. an underexposed film will start to crush the shadows
4b. you can compensate for an underexposed film by over development, raising the contrast

so:

pulling film one stop: means shooting it at half the iso (overexposing) and then underdeveloping to reduce contrast
pushing film one stop: means shooting it at double the iso (underexposing) and then overdeveloping to increase contrast

similarly: if your film is overexposed, then you want to use a low contrast development method, like a compensating developer, or stand development, and if your film is underexposed, you may want to develop for much longer to bring out acceptable negatives

tef
May 30, 2004

-> some l-system crap ->
if you want to understand why this happens, you gotta learn about the characteristic curve of a film

on one hand, it's simple: it's a graph exposure vs density, or how much light makes how dark a spot in the film
on the other hand, everyone measures it differently and ilford don't even put units in. i'm somehow too lazy to embed a picture but here's a paragraph on what this curve means

a characteristic curve has three major parts: the toe, the straight line section, and the shoulder. the straight line bit of the film is usually what you want to expose for, where there's a linear mapping from light in your subject to black on the negatives. the toe and shoulder are where things get weird. exposing in the toe tends to crush the shadows, exposing in the shoulder can often crush the highlights, it's no longer a linear mapping between the exposure and the negative density.

or, this is why pushing film gets you that stark contrast, both from overdeveloping, and also crushing any tones in the shadows, making things seem darker

and why pulling will get you better shadow detail in your imageóit'll be hitting the straight line sectionóbut the highlights might get clipped a little, even with underdevelopment

and it's also why you can over or underexpose an image and still get something acceptable: if the image doesn't have high contrast, most of it should still fit in the straight line section

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



wait they don't make the easy to use stuff any more? dangit

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



also: thank you all for bearing with me on this

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Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



it seems like adorama sells diafine; am i missing something?

https://www.adorama.com/chdg.html?g...c-google-shop-p

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