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jiggerypokery
Feb 1, 2012

...But I could hardly wait six months with a red hot jape like that under me belt.



I am not sure about this but... with "amnesia greens" you can remove a GF ability... I think that they can't learn it again once you do that but I am not sure.

It's card mod that really breaks the game. Refining magic from items isn't as wild and saves grindy magic drawing.

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AngryRobotsInc
Aug 2, 2011



jiggerypokery posted:

I am not sure about this but... with "amnesia greens" you can remove a GF ability... I think that they can't learn it again once you do that but I am not sure.

It's card mod that really breaks the game. Refining magic from items isn't as wild and saves grindy magic drawing.

Some abilities are relearnable through items, some aren't.

Dark_Swordmaster
Oct 31, 2011


As someone who played blind and has no intention to replay in the near future, can some link some guides on just how to break the game and how broken it can get? Y'all talk about being able to turn the game inside out and break all of it but I have no idea about any of that and would love to see it and read the mechanics behind it.

itry
Aug 23, 2019






What breaks the game is all the items the little chocobo pet finds for you in its chocobo world.

Also the most fun I've had in FF8 is seeing how many status effects and elements I can make my character immune to. So refine is cool and good.

It's too bad the dialogue/characters are too cringey for me these days to do a playthrough.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012



I was a big FFVIII hater when I was younger. Its brokenness and weirdness, to me, were ways in which the game was "wrong" and proof that it was bad. The story's absolutely wild turns after disc 2 I similarly really disliked. I wrote a lot of words about how FFVIII is an example of ~*~bad game design~*~ on the GameFAQs forums back in high school and this is a fact that will haunt me to the end of my days.

Now that I have reached the twilight of my years (the dreaded "mid-30s") I can appreciate FFVIII a whole lot more. These days I am much more willing--maybe too willing at times--to meet a game on its own terms, to take the bumps and rough edges as just an inextricable part of the overall experience, and with a game that's as much of a fascinating mess as FFVIII, how can I not come to love it? I mean, poo poo, one of my favorite JRPGs of all time is SaGa Frontier, and that game defines "fascinating mess." (I even loved that game back when I was a kid, so why I was unable to extend that to FFVIII, I really don't know.)

In many ways I prefer a fascinating mess of a game to something that plays it completely safe and by the books these days. I mean I still adore Dragon Quest, a game series that is about as by-the-book as they come, and FFIX is still my favorite of the numbered FFs so obviously I still have a huge place in my heart for video game comfort food, too.

I dunno. FFVIII is weird as poo poo in so many ways and it should be celebrated for that.

Dark_Swordmaster posted:

As someone who played blind and has no intention to replay in the near future, can some link some guides on just how to break the game and how broken it can get? Y'all talk about being able to turn the game inside out and break all of it but I have no idea about any of that and would love to see it and read the mechanics behind it.

It all comes down to Triple Triad, really. There's a GF ability that lets you refine spells from Triple Triad cards, and that lets you get a lot of spells in huge numbers much earlier than you're supposed to. You can use those to junction your characters' stats into the stratosphere. Then when you get the Aura spell you enter the phase of the game where spamming limit breaks becomes trivial.

Harrow fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Feb 16, 2022

man nurse
Feb 17, 2014




Dark_Swordmaster posted:

As someone who played blind and has no intention to replay in the near future, can some link some guides on just how to break the game and how broken it can get? Y'all talk about being able to turn the game inside out and break all of it but I have no idea about any of that and would love to see it and read the mechanics behind it.

The basic idea is to obtain the Card Mod and Refine skills asap. This lets you break certain cards into tons of items that then refine into 100s of really powerful magic. This lets you get absurd stats early on. You can take it a step further and intentionally avoid leveling up by turning enemies into cards instead of killing them, thereby avoiding exp (bosses donít give you exp) but still gaining AP to learn GF skills. The game will keep all the enemies and bosses at your low initial level while you wail on them with your stats that have now gone through the roof.

AngryRobotsInc
Aug 2, 2011



And if you're completely batshit crazy (I have done this) you off Squall and Zell during the Dollet sequence, and level Seifer nonstop so you get a gaggle of GF abilities while your "Avoiding exp gains" options are still pretty much limited to "Card or run".

itry
Aug 23, 2019






I also liked only learning the optimal limit breaks for Squall/Rinoa and ignoring all the rest, since they are selected randomly.

Edit: From the wiki lol

quote:

As it is not a requisite to read the corresponding Weapons Monthly magazines before the weapons can be modeled in a junk shop, the characters' ultimate weapons can be crafted as early as the player collects the required items (often the easiest done by modifying Triple Triad cards). This means everyone but Irvine can potentially obtain their strongest weapon on disc 1 (before the end of the Deling City parade).
Another reason why Irvine sucks.

itry fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Feb 16, 2022

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos


Counterpoint you don't really need an ultimate gun for Irvine to do ridiculous damage with fast or pulse ammo, just a good str junction.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔


Big part of breaking is abusing the fact that you can keep cycling through your characters' turns until they get a Limit break, and they can always be in limit range because you can pump their max HP and blind Squall without consequence. Then use multi-hit limits with your absurd strength from modding and refining (see above) and the game can't do poo poo to stop you anymore

zakharov
Nov 30, 2002

:kimchi: Tater Love :kimchi:


Relying on GFs for damage is a fine strategy until the first boss on Disc 4, st which point you'll be screwed if you've mostly ignored junctions like teenage me.

Mordiceius
Nov 10, 2007

I was terrified at first, but I think I'm okay with it.



zakharov posted:

Relying on GFs for damage is a fine strategy until the first boss on Disc 4, st which point you'll be screwed if you've mostly ignored junctions like teenage me.

FF8 was my first Final Fantasy and honestly probably the first JRPG I went all the way on. I ran from most random encounters but I also ignored cardmodding and junctioning. Fighting Adel took me roughly 10-15 hours of repeatedly trying because I had basically relied on GFs heavily for fights I couldn't avoid and Rinoa kept dying that fight. Ultimecia's castle was a loving nightmare for me. I actually made it all the way to Ultimecia but despite trying for 15 hours, could not beat her. I then started the entire game over from the very beginning, brought up GameFAQs, and went full completionist.

jiggerypokery
Feb 1, 2012

...But I could hardly wait six months with a red hot jape like that under me belt.



I got completely stuck with the boss at the end of the missile base on my first playthrough when I was 9 or 10 years old.


If I remember you don't get to choose your team then and they were all the team members I hated so were super low level, but squall, rinoa and whoever else isn't there I used all the time so they were much higher level.

I guess that there's a level scaling thing the boss did that made it go up to the average level of the party which might have been 30 or something but i was fighting it with a bunch of level 10 people. I can't remember if I ever beat it - I think I did - or just started again.

I definitely had no idea the level scaling was a thing. I might have gotten squall up to a stupid level at the start of the game. I liked exploring and grinding.

I remember being stuck there for so long that the bit after when there are monsters all over balamb garden was the most EXCITING THING EVER

Rooney McNibnug
Sep 2, 2008

"Life always hopes. When a definite object cannot be outlined, the indomitable spirit of hope still impels the living mass to move toward something--something that shall somehow be better."


jiggerypokery posted:

I got completely stuck with the boss at the end of the missile base on my first playthrough when I was 9 or 10 years old.


If I remember you don't get to choose your team then and they were all the team members I hated so were super low level, but squall, rinoa and whoever else isn't there I used all the time so they were much higher level.

This was me then as well.

X-Ray Pecs
May 11, 2008

New York
Ice Cream
TV
Travel
~Good Times~


Dark_Swordmaster posted:

Started FFIX last night and it's a perfect loving example. The rules to its card game are minimally explained at the start of it and I promptly lost every beginner match to where the game told me I couldn't play anymore. Cool, I likely never will again.

hahahaha
Hahahahaha
HAHAHAHAHAHA

I hope you donít mind not finishing FFIX

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012



You are required to play the card game a little on like disc 3 of FFIX but you can also just throw every match and the story will continue just fine

zakharov
Nov 30, 2002

:kimchi: Tater Love :kimchi:


Harrow posted:

You are required to play the card game a little on like disc 3 of FFIX but you can also just throw every match and the story will continue just fine

You have to win two matches but can lose the third.

jiggerypokery
Feb 1, 2012

...But I could hardly wait six months with a red hot jape like that under me belt.



i don't remember that bit at all. I thought there was even less point to the ff9 card game than the ff8 one.

FF7 wasn't in any way worse for not having one

Dark_Swordmaster
Oct 31, 2011


But it did have mandatory snowboarding and submarines and motorcy--


I figure if the mandatory card poo poo is deep into IX I will have accidentally accrued enough cards to brute force it.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos


Ff9 has a card tournament where it pulls a "but thou must win" for a couple games, and then you play against a gimmick deck that has like a 50% chance you just win with whatever beginner cards they keep giving you because the gimmick is that the deck is bad.

E. I know what you're going to say, it's tetramaster, all the decks are bad because the game is bad. You're right but the oglop deck is meant to combo ping pong from one color to another so it's extra bad and if you go second you probably just won.

Luigi Thirty
Apr 30, 2006

Emergency confection port.



I love this game so much and Galbadia must be destroyed for inventing the worst Triple Triad rules.

jiggerypokery
Feb 1, 2012

...But I could hardly wait six months with a red hot jape like that under me belt.



Dark_Swordmaster posted:

But it did have mandatory snowboarding and submarines and motorcy--


I figure if the mandatory card poo poo is deep into IX I will have accidentally accrued enough cards to brute force it.

All those games were :five: especially the condor tower

Dark_Swordmaster
Oct 31, 2011


I had forgotten that one. Even the parade was kind of fun.

Did 8 have any timed button press mini games or sequences? 9 had a stage sword fight at the beginning.

zenguitarman
Apr 6, 2009

Come on, lemme see ya shake your tail feather




Luigi Thirty posted:

I love this game so much and Galbadia must be destroyed for inventing the worst Triple Triad rules.

Doesn't Trabia have the Random rule though?

Rooney McNibnug
Sep 2, 2008

"Life always hopes. When a definite object cannot be outlined, the indomitable spirit of hope still impels the living mass to move toward something--something that shall somehow be better."


Dark_Swordmaster posted:

I had forgotten that one. Even the parade was kind of fun.

Did 8 have any timed button press mini games or sequences? 9 had a stage sword fight at the beginning.

VIII has "Squall! punch and block the Galbadian paratrooper!" and "Laguna! Block and slash at the very real dragon with this prop sword!"

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012



zakharov posted:

You have to win two matches but can lose the third.

Oh lol I forgot you had to win two. Iím guessing theyíre pretty easy because I only remember the one you can lose.

Sally Sprodgkin
May 23, 2007

get money


If you get to the bit where you have to win cards in FFIX and don't give a poo poo about cards/dont have any good ones, there is an anti-soft lock mechanic where you can talk to Dr Tot in the tower and he gives you a set of solid mid-tier cards and one mid-to-high tier card (Save the Queen) which you should 100% be able to win the tournament with no problems. This only works if you have <5 cards (recommend doing it with 0 though because that's required to get Save the Queen).

Dark_Swordmaster
Oct 31, 2011


Rooney McNibnug posted:

VIII has "Squall! punch and block the Galbadian paratrooper!" and "Laguna! Block and slash at the very real dragon with this prop sword!"

Boy do I literally not remember these events.

X-Ray Pecs
May 11, 2008

New York
Ice Cream
TV
Travel
~Good Times~


Dark_Swordmaster posted:

But it did have mandatory snowboarding and submarines and motorcy--

I challenge you to a squat contest right now.

Rooney McNibnug posted:

VIII has "Squall! punch and block the Galbadian paratrooper!" and "Laguna! Block and slash at the very real dragon with this prop sword!"

Oh god gently caress that Galbadian paratrooper minigame, the low point of the whole drat game.

Dark_Swordmaster
Oct 31, 2011


I forgot there's a limit break where Rinoa fires her dog at the enemies.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H8gaMmwaEM0

Electric Phantasm
Apr 7, 2011

YOSPOS



Dark_Swordmaster posted:

I forgot there's a limit break where Rinoa fires her dog at the enemies.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H8gaMmwaEM0

I can't remember is that one her starter limit breaks or does she learn that from a magazine?

Also Wishing Star is better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d6RCtjBmjM

Love breaking the dimensional barrier with my dog.

Dark_Swordmaster
Oct 31, 2011


I agree it's better but the visuals just aren't quite as funny as a large dog mounted on the wrist.



Just read the plot synopsis of this game and not only have I forgotten like 90% of it despite playing it only 6 or so years back, but loving what?

X-Ray Pecs
May 11, 2008

New York
Ice Cream
TV
Travel
~Good Times~


Time Kompression, thatís what.

Dark_Swordmaster
Oct 31, 2011


The only way to truly defeat evil is to have a good childhood and never forget it.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010





Dark_Swordmaster posted:

I agree it's better but the visuals just aren't quite as funny as a large dog mounted on the wrist.

An excuse to finally post something that should have been posted on the first page


And the others

man nurse
Feb 17, 2014




I dealt the final blow to Ultimecia with Angelo Cannon lol. Felt appropriate somehow

Dark_Swordmaster
Oct 31, 2011


This line of Googling is how I learned you can devour Rinoa and get a game over.

Rooney McNibnug
Sep 2, 2008

"Life always hopes. When a definite object cannot be outlined, the indomitable spirit of hope still impels the living mass to move toward something--something that shall somehow be better."


Dark_Swordmaster posted:

Boy do I literally not remember these events.

They are forgettable!

itry
Aug 23, 2019






Dark_Swordmaster posted:

This line of Googling is how I learned you can devour Rinoa and get a game over.

I require video evidence :dogstare:

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X-Ray Pecs
May 11, 2008

New York
Ice Cream
TV
Travel
~Good Times~


Dark_Swordmaster posted:

This line of Googling is how I learned you can devour Rinoa and get a game over.

I love this stupid game.

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