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roguelike is an incorrect description when applied to 90% of the games its applied to and roguelite is worse. very few games described as a roguelike or lite are anything like rogue apart from being run-based procgen and adding the word lite to it doesnt take away that problem and actually compounds on it. we as gamers need a new term to describe these games tht describes what they actually are instead of making an incorrect comparison to a game they share essentially one characteristic with. i like the term "loop repeat" though its slightly longer but am open to other concepts, it describes the core gameplay wthout direct comparisons and is more evocative. obviously this doesnt affect games like adom, tome, etc. because those actually are roguelikes
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Dec 20, 2021 17:54
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rougeish
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Dec 20, 2021 18:00
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Popete posted:rougeish even this isnt good because theres no throughline between rogue and hades. actually hades is an even better example of why the term doesnt work because its static room design grabbed at random when a room is generated with set enemy generation parameters applied to it, not procgen. it shares basically no dna with rogue but its called a roguelike/roguelite
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Dec 20, 2021 18:05
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Daggerfall is more like rogue than most "rogue likes", a true conundrum
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Dec 20, 2021 18:08
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a lot of genre names are bad but i don't know if there's anything you can actually do about it. people kept trying to rename walksims before giving up.
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Dec 20, 2021 18:19
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We should give them a name that signifies their outlier status. Let's call them rogues
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Dec 20, 2021 18:21
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I just call them bad, OP
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Dec 20, 2021 18:23
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Isn't Binding of Isaac a Smash TV?
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Dec 20, 2021 18:52
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Rogue is an Isaaclike
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Dec 20, 2021 18:57
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Let's call them what they are: complete and utter lazy garbage for weirdos. I think you can condense that to "Roguelike."
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Dec 20, 2021 19:05
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Common usage OP
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Dec 20, 2021 19:10
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Nail Rat posted:Common usage OP You and I know it's quite clear The argument being made here Change common language To prevent the anguish Of endless prescriptivist tears
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Dec 20, 2021 19:14
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Casnorf posted:Let's call them what they are: complete and utter lazy garbage for weirdos. I think you can condense that to "Roguelike." Casnorf posted:You and I know it's quite clear what is this
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Dec 20, 2021 19:17
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Im more offended when people call those games "good" 
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Dec 20, 2021 19:23
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Rogue squadron like is another subgenre
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Dec 20, 2021 19:24
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Violen posted:what is this To wit; comprehension is tough Presupposition's enough Or maybe you're hiding Some way of eliding The truth of this transparent bluff
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Dec 20, 2021 19:25
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no
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Dec 20, 2021 19:31
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I like Returnal. It's a pretty good 3d Hadeslike!
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Dec 20, 2021 19:32
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Casnorf posted:Let's call them what they are: complete and utter lazy garbage for weirdos. I think you can condense that to "Roguelike." Psycho Landlord posted:I just call them bad, OP Dandywalken posted:Im more offended when people call those games "good" 
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Dec 20, 2021 19:34
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Maybe each game should have a rogue score. You get a 6 or above, it's a roguelite. 8 or above, it's a roguelike Below 6 the genre is rogeunlike.
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Dec 20, 2021 19:34
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Ineffiable posted:I like Returnal. It's a pretty good 3d Hadeslike! this wodul also be better but also stupid
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Dec 20, 2021 19:34
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Violence is unbecoming for men of our stature.
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Dec 20, 2021 19:39
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Nail Rat posted:Common usage OP yes but the term still sucks nd not using it would be better. same with calling metroidvanias search action games instead, the term is more evocative and descriptive and doesnt require havin prior knowledge
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Dec 20, 2021 19:42
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Fungah! posted:yes but the term still sucks nd not using it would be better. same with calling metroidvanias search action games instead, the term is more evocative and descriptive and doesnt require havin prior knowledge Piquing the interest of some With the prospect of knowledge to come Gives context for more Than the research in store So evocative names aren't that dumb
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Dec 20, 2021 19:45
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FPSes stopped being called Doomclones, eventually and Moba are no longer Tower Defense or Dotas
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Dec 20, 2021 19:46
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Smash is still not a Fighting Game
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Dec 20, 2021 19:47
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this thread is a roguelike
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Dec 20, 2021 19:49
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:this thread is a roguelike it will be next time sure
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Dec 20, 2021 19:50
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All of my posts are procedurally generated and therefore do not have a background or image. Below is a list of tips on writing a cyberpunk story that will make your readers wonder, "Who put this kid in charge of a cyberpunk novel? Why?" Follow these simple ideas and your story will likely be considered the front runner in the race for the World Cyberpunk One - Shot Award. Do not write one set of rules for your cyberpunk. You want a cyberpunk that is visually unique from everyone else, that feels a little bit dirty, a little bit punk, a little bit strange, and a little bit off. They should feel like the outsider they are.
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Dec 20, 2021 19:55
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i kind of get it but i don't think it's really the job of genre names to be descriptive except as a grouping of things with shared aesthetics. it's not as if "fighting game" is very good at distinguishing the design and aesthetic hallmarks of most fighting games from all the other games which feature fighting without contextual knowledge
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Dec 20, 2021 20:00
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Feels Villeneuve posted:i kind of get it but i don't think it's really the job of genre names to be descriptive except as a grouping of things with shared aesthetics. it's not as if "fighting game" is very good at distinguishing the design and aesthetic hallmarks of most fighting games from all the other games which feature fighting without contextual knowledge sure but roguelike doesnt even go that far. 1) if you dont know what the game rogue is the term isn't useful at all and 2) tyhe term still isn't useful even if you knew what rogue was but lacked all other contextual knowledge because the game rogue doesnt describe most modern roguelikes even a little. at least fighting game tells you that fighting is going to be the primary thing you do in the game and gives you enough context that you get a decent idea of what the game is
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Dec 20, 2021 20:11
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very few genre names are actually good at being descriptive without prior knowledge, unless you want to explain to someone why Quake 3 isn't a "multiplayer online battle arena". maybe at like, a really, really high level like "action" or "strategy" they might be useful at being at least vaguely descriptive of the game, but this runs into obvious issues with stuff like "adventure" or "tactical" or whatever. it's just kind of misguided because the whole reason we use genres is because of context. they're for grouping games (or works of music, or art, or whatever) with shared aesthetic/design philosophies. it's almost a circular definition where a game is in a genre because it's similar to other games in the genre in some specific way, and grouping games together like that is only meaningful with contextual knowledge. to put it another way genres are never going to be useful to anyone without contextual knowledge because genre categories exist specifically to make game classification and discussion easier among people with contextual knowledge, and not to be an actual dictionary-like definition of what those shared design philosophies are
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Dec 20, 2021 20:30
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very well.
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Dec 20, 2021 20:43
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Feels Villeneuve posted:very few genre names are actually good at being descriptive without prior knowledge, unless you want to explain to someone why Quake 3 isn't a "multiplayer online battle arena". maybe at like, a really, really high level like "action" or "strategy" they might be useful at being at least vaguely descriptive of the game, but this runs into obvious issues with stuff like "adventure" or "tactical" or whatever. sure but the problem is that th term roguelike as its used annoys me because it occludes n actual useful term (theres an use for the word roguelike, which is to help someone like me, a guy who likes nethack and adom, find other games that are like rogue like tome or qud or what have you) while also not being useful at all to someone whos looking to break into the genre. the problems not that we dont have a use for the term or that genre as a whole isnt descriptive enough (its not because its supposed to be a short surface level description of something), its that it's a bad use for another term. roguelite is also like that and sounds really stupid too
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Dec 20, 2021 20:45
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little munchkin posted:very well. 
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Dec 20, 2021 20:46
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By definition, roguelikes are about things that happen to the player. Some elements that the game design would have to assume the player is not prepared to deal with, for example. Yes, if I’m going to kill a person I may want to try to figure out how to best kill that person. But there’s also no guarantee that the player is ready to do this. So, I might not be ready to deal with death that seems inevitable at any moment. Now let’s consider if a roguelike’s scripting language could be used for things that occur to the player, but a human player does not have an easy time understanding. Suppose the player reaches a certain level. But before he reaches that level the character in the game would obviously have reached it. Therefore the goal would be beyond what a human can ever hope to achieve. In such a case, the player’s goal would be beyond the scope of the game’s scripting language. The second type of failure (and I’m using “failure” here in the sense of “not achieving the goal of the game”) would be the issue of time. You could construct a storyline in which a giant demon, for example, is after the hero and has some time limit. So what do you want to do? You’ve got to make the player’s time limit go quickly or else they won
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Dec 20, 2021 21:07
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in Bjnding of Isaac i play the role of Isaac. therefore it is a role playing game.
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Dec 20, 2021 21:11
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Genre: descriptivist term It ain't an immutable perm They shift and they flow Get defined on the go Their meaning has never been firm
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Dec 20, 2021 21:12
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X-wing vs Tie Fighter is a roguelike
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Dec 20, 2021 21:26
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| # ? Apr 23, 2024 20:43 |
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Binding of Isaac is essentially a heist and assassination game, with less of a focus on keeping track of doors and defeating endless waves of enemies. Unlike the third-person shooters out there, the goal is much more to get through as quickly as possible, collecting as much loot as possible. The purity of its mechanic will appeal to fans of the genre, but there’s also enough going on in the game for those that prefer more options. The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth (PS4/PC/Switch) – dangerous The biggest issue with the original – and possibly one of the best, if not the best, hack and slash titles around – was the fact that it was so hard, or rather, just hard. Even with custom character races to make the game more accessible, there’s no respite from the pain. This has been addressed somewhat by adding four new characters, each of which has a useful set of abilities, allowing a player to vary their approach. The core of the game, though, is still the same. Isaac’s powerup set has changed over the years, but it’s still split into a basic arsenal, such as being able to burn holes in enemies with lasers or a disintegrating melee attack, which acts much like karate chops but with an extra smirk. The strategy of upgrading them is much the same as the original – build up two to four secondary weapons, such as beams, bombs, missiles, and rockets, which are for use in a more traditional way, which has never been the case before. There are also new classes, the more elemental ones called Magus. They can be built into an attack with a series of spells, which can be harnessed to become more powerful. They have their own roles and weapons, but they work in an entirely different way to Isaac. While the basic framework has been retained, there are new enemies, such as rat goblins who are immune to fire and are able to swim through water, as well as rarer boss battles. Unlike previous games in the series, the essential mechanics have stayed the same, but with a vast increase in scope. There is still a bit of the challenge element in the game, but now it’s backed up by new strategies and a wealth of different classes to try out, along with the potential of obtaining unique pieces of gear for it. There’s still a fair bit of grind here, of course, but it’s balanced by the new achievements system, which rewards players with special items to make progress through the game. Verdict While this is the most traditional Binding of Isaac game yet, it’s also one of the hardest and most rewarding, leaving you totally reliant on the essential strategy and risk-taking which has been the basis of the series from the start. It may not offer too much variety, but it’s got that just right, and will keep you coming back for more. Exceptional Overall rating: 8/10
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Dec 20, 2021 21:30
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