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 FINAL BRACKET Match #1 - Iowa vs Bretagne Match #2 - Fusō vs Ise Match #3 - Nelson vs Almirante Latorre Match #4 - King George V vs Rivadavia Match #5 - South Dakota vs Gangut/Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya Match #6 - Hood vs Scharnhorst Match #7 - Colorado vs Revenge Match #8 - North Carolina vs Dunkerque Bonus round - CAULDRON OF DOOM (North Carolina vs 5 torpedo superboats) Match #9 - Yamato vs Minas Geraes Match #10 - New Mexico vs Kongō Match #11 - Littorio vs Renown Match #12 - Conte di Cavour vs Bismarck Match #13 - Vanguard vs Andrea Doria Match #14 - Nagato vs Tennesee Match #15 - Queen Elizabeth vs Pennsylvania Match #16 - Richelieu vs New York Bonus Round - Glass Cannons (Lexington vs Courageous) Bonus Round - Empire Throwdown (4x Revenge-class vs 4x Kongō-class) Bonus Round - Batalha Sul-Americana (Brazil vs Argentina fleet battle) Bonus Round - Old-timers (Monitor vs Virginia) Match #17 - Yamato vs New Mexico Match #18 - Littorio vs Bismarck Match #19 - Vanguard vs Tennessee Match #20 - Richelieu vs Pennsylvania Match #21 - Iowa vs Fusō Match #22 - King George V vs Nelson Match #23 - Colorado vs Dunquerque Match #24 - Scharnhorst vs South Dakota Bonus Round - Big vs Fast (Nebraska vs Nisshin) Bonus Round - Savo Island Rematch (4x New Orleans-class vs 4x Aoba-class) Bonus Round - Macross Torpedo Massacre (Kitakami vs North Carolina) Quarter-finals: Match #25 - Iowa vs Nelson Match #26 - South Dakota vs Colorado Match #27 - Yamato vs Littorio Match #28 - Vanguard vs Richelieu Semi-finals: Match #29 - Iowa vs South Dakota Match #30 - Yamato vs Richelieu Bonus Round - Dreadnought or Not (Dreadnought vs Lord Nelson) Bonus Round - War Plan Orange (4x Colorado-class vs 4x Nagato-class) Bonus Round - Middleweight Championship (South Dakota vs Richelieu) Finals: Match #29 - Iowa vs Yamato If you'd like to fill out a bracket, here's an empty one aside from the first battle gimmie. I'll resume the contest New Year's Eve.BATTLESHIPS are some of the coolest and most wasteful things mankind ever created. For the first half of the 20th century, they were how you measured your nation's dick. Through crippling wars, multiple global financial catastrophes, coups and revolutions, battleships never waned as a symbol of national prestige and eye-watering military spending. Tragically, mankind was robbed of the chance to actually see what these things could do in major pitched battles against one another; there were shockingly few examples of battleships going toe-to-toe with one another without weather or airplanes or some other stupid operational factor injecting itself into the contest. The result is now decades-worth of arguing about which ship did what best, with very little real-world data to back any of it up. Ultimate Admiral: Dreadnoughts will not resolve these arguments. It will, however, give us the chance to pretend! We can build just about any ship design we want (no cowardly aircraft carriers) and put them out in the ocean for an all-guns duel. UAD actually does a fairly decent job of modeling a great many of the factors that went into the design and tactics of these great ships. This thread will describe a 32-ship, March Madness-style tournament with nearly all of the WWII-era battleships of the world represented. We'll use a standard bracket, with ships seeded largely according to pretty half-assed research. I'll also include a brief description of each ship, so's we know what we're dealing with here. I'll post a brief overview of each battleship and screenshots from the most important moments. And now... The Field of Contenders First, our bracket:  And a couple of gameplay notes: - Fights are all 1v1, in pretty good weather and minimal wind. Visibility of a BB-sized ship is somewhere between 25 and 30km. - All fights will be AI vs AI - I'll do my best to make the ships look like their historical counterparts but I'll have to make some concessions to the game engine. All vital stats except possibly displacement will be in line with their best configurations prior to 1945. Now, let's get right to it! Matchup #1: USS Iowa (1943) vs Bretange (1916) USS Iowa  Armor belt: 12.1 inches Armor deck: ~ 8 inches (total) Main battery: 9x16 inch guns Top speed: 33 kts The Iowas are far and away America's most famous ships, and the #1 seed in the tournament for a reason. They were the most sophisticated battleships ever built, combining superb American shipbuilding, a ridiculous overabundance of resources such as special steels, and the best engine and fire control technology of the era. They didn't have the biggest guns of thickest armor on the block (due to a requirement to fit through the Panama Canal) but their combination of high-tech armor, fire control, and speed are unmatched. Bretagne  Belt armor: 10.6 inches Deck armor: 1.6 inches Main battery: 10x13.4 inch guns Top speed: 20 kts Bretagne was very competitive for her era, with ten 340mm guns and thick armor belt. Her top speed was on the slow side even in 1916, however, and is among the worst in the field. Worse, she was built to fight in an era where naval gun battles were to take place at much shorter ranges, reflected in her very thin deck armor. Still, her 10-gun broadside is impressive, and every battleship has a puncher's chance.... The Battle If Iowa plays this smart, she doesn't even need to lay eyes on Bretagne. Her combination of speed and radar-laid gunfire can rip apart the gorgeous old French battleship from well outside the range of her guns. Bretagne lacks the speed to catch Iowa, is badly outranged, and her thin deck armor is the likeliest landing spot for Iowa's heavy shells.   Iowa spots smoke in the distance and goes to flank speed.  Iowa swings her stern around and opens fire at nearly 30km.  The first inkling Bretagne has that anything is amiss is a shell splashing in the water a couple hundred yards off her port bow.  Iowa finds the range pretty quickly. (note: this was not actually a hit, somehow)  How Iowa fought nearly the entire battle. Note how she's maintaining position inside her max range but outside Bretagne's, with all 9 of her guns still trained on the target.  A 16" shell rips into Bretagne's midsection.  A big hole, and a big fire.  More holes, and more fires.  Bretagne is game though, her veteran crew gets the fires under control and she keeps steaming towards her opponent, slower now, and full of holes.  How most of the battle looked to Bretagne: just muzzle flashes in the mist.  But what's this? Bretagne's guns are training? Is she in range? She is! But shortly after, her captain is killed.  Turns out Iowa was getting bored or something, and decided to turn for a full broadside within visual range. Bretagne's T is crossed.  She got off two wildly inaccurate salvoes before the inevitable result.  Winner: Iowa Some exciting other first round matchups: - Japanese battleships Ise and Fuso -- very evenly matched -- will slug it out. - The biggest kid in the field -- Yamato -- goes after a...Brazilian battleship? Yes, you read that right. - The fast and hard hitting but vulnerable Hood matches up with the most lightly armed ship in the field in Scharnhorst. - The best of the UK and US early era -- Revenge and Colorado -- will duke it out in a War Plan Red scenario - Nagato fights one of the very ships they she built to fight in Tennessee Up next: a Japanese Battle Royale between Ise and Fuso! bewbies fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Feb 14, 2022 |
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Dec 29, 2021 23:11
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Iowa was not very nice to that poor French bote.
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Dec 29, 2021 23:21
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Will the Italian Battleship be in the Russian Novorossiysk(spelled right and I don't care) configuration? For obvious reasons the USSR is not otherwise represented in a WWII battleship competition. But they were certainly planning to get some before Stalin died. Also when do you want our January madness style brackets in by? habituallyred fucked around with this message at 11:55 on Dec 30, 2021 |
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Dec 29, 2021 23:23
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Oh yes, this is extremely my poo poo. How's the game, by the way? I heard the battles were good but the framework leading up to them is extremely barebones.
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Dec 29, 2021 23:27
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Minas Geraes will samba over the burning hulks of all her opponents!
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Dec 29, 2021 23:32
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Personally I'm rooting for Dunkerque
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Dec 29, 2021 23:47
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I am extremely down for this
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Dec 29, 2021 23:50
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*Starts singing the Space Battleship Yamato theme song*
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Dec 29, 2021 23:51
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habituallyred posted:Also when do you want our January madness style brackets in by? What a brilliant idea that I completely overlooked. Here's a copy of the bracket: https://pdfhost.io/v/6VZ.JW1zy_Battleship_tournament And let's say by Friday afternoon. Post screenshots of your picks! Here's mine filled out:  Upsets include Nelson getting a lucky strike on Iowa, Revenge bringing it the US in a big way, and my personal favorite Richelieu beating some of the best the British have to offer. Also Gangut is in there! It is partially Soviet. bewbies fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Dec 30, 2021 |
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Dec 30, 2021 00:09
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Gort posted:How's the game, by the way? I heard the battles were good but the framework leading up to them is extremely barebones. I got it deep in early access and it isn't all that different. Clearly their attentions are on lovingly crafting ship components and fighting fun naval battles, I haven't even taken a look at the campaign. There are some big features still missing but it is a lot of fun.
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Dec 30, 2021 00:15
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USA USA USA USA! Rooting for Iowa all the way!
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Dec 30, 2021 00:29
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Don't have the time for a full bracket so I'll just bet on whether or not a South American ship makes it to the second round. My bet is: Yes
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Dec 30, 2021 01:04
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I'm rooting for the Iowa and the Bismarck,
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Dec 30, 2021 01:53
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A pox upon all Bismarcki. The scenario unfortunately deprives Vanguard of her best asset. In a North Sea gale, she might make Iowa nervous.
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Dec 30, 2021 01:59
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bewbies posted:- The biggest kid in the field -- Yamato -- goes after a...Brazilian battleship? Yes, you read that right. And they're gonna take it home! BRASIL NÚMERO 1 CAMPEÃO PENTA!
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Dec 30, 2021 02:01
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Wait, I thought two threads would be playing Battleship against one another. Darn it.
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Dec 30, 2021 02:20
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Where is the Agincourt, I demand Agincourt.
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Dec 30, 2021 02:21
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Zorak of Michigan posted:A pox upon all Bismarcki. The scenario unfortunately deprives Vanguard of her best asset. In a North Sea gale, she might make Iowa nervous. Vanguard had good qualities? I'm used to playing 'World of Warships', where she suffers a great deal. 8 obsolete 15" guns makes it tough to recommend...
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Dec 30, 2021 02:29
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Iowas are wet, Vanguard was a fine sea boat. Get together in the right sort of weather when there's green water coming over the Iowa's bow, and the day might get interesting.
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Dec 30, 2021 03:08
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Heh, HMS Vanguard vs. an ocean liner?  I hope we get to see one dramatic upset via a lucky shell, IE the "Hoodshot"
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Dec 30, 2021 03:19
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No love for Jaime I?
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Dec 30, 2021 03:30
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My bracket! I'm assuming the Vanguard here is the one commissioned in 1946 and not the early 1900s dreadnaught. If it's the latter, I may revisit. No change to my bracket if you're using the 1939 South Dakotas or the 1920 South Dakotas.
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Dec 30, 2021 04:51
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bracket up in here: bewbies, i can probably score em if you want, just let me know
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Dec 30, 2021 05:58
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Ouch, they didn't even get close enough to shoot their stubbies.
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Dec 30, 2021 05:58
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Unless the AI is dumb, anything with radar fire control has no business losing to any optical-only ship.
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Dec 30, 2021 07:22
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I mean he has a point yeah, is there any sort of weather or condition handicaps you can throw in? Or is this just a no mercy THE FATES DECIDED beat down and the crew deal with the cards they were given with tech/design differences? In advance, ouch anything pre 1930 matched up with an overhaulted WW2 ship.
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Dec 30, 2021 12:02
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Oh hell yeah, I'm definitely gonna keep my eyes on this. I've recently got the game as well, and it's pretty good fun so far and they just released a patch improving the AI a couple of days ago. I won't be making any predictions since I know about gently caress all about historical designs, but I'm certainly rooting for any ship with built-in torpedo tubes cause so far those are the most effective thing in my campaign. 
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Dec 30, 2021 13:26
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 I don't think it's very likely Richelieu can beat Yamato, or that Nelson can take both Iowa and SoDak, but I desperately want a fight between Nelson and Richelieu.
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Dec 30, 2021 14:30
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This definitely looks like a fun thread. I'm betting Iowa goes all the way, but it'll be interesting to see what upsets happen along the way.
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Dec 30, 2021 19:03
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Important question. Are these as-built, final refits, or something in between?
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Dec 30, 2021 19:07
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Gnoman posted:Important question. Are these as-built, final refits, or something in between? Best configuration prior to 1945 according to our ringmaster Which is interesting, since I assume that the cutoff date was deliberate, because the Iowas got some improvement that allowed them to target a ship's power magazine through a hurricane from 30 km away. I'm also assuming the Bismark class is going to be late Tirptiz. Which is cool all by itself, since I think Tirpitz got heavier armor.
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Dec 30, 2021 19:16
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Right side is going to turn into Vanguard vs Yamato, which will be quite the fight to see
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Dec 30, 2021 19:19
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The hidden (very slight) handicap the later BBs have is that air attack doesn’t exist in this. A lot of throw weight on the Iowas is devoted to AA.
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Dec 30, 2021 19:20
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Natty Ninefingers posted:The hidden (very slight) handicap the later BBs have is that air attack doesn’t exist in this. A lot of throw weight on the Iowas is devoted to AA. I think the overall trend towards bigger guns with better fire control will work out in the later builds' favour. Iowa's going to go all the way and I'm predicting either NC or SoDak will come out of the bottom left bracket.
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Dec 30, 2021 19:57
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plus DP guns work just fine as secondaries against surface targets although if we get in to secondary range on any of these i'll be shocked
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Dec 30, 2021 21:46
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No idea who to vote for, but I like watching ships go boom.
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Dec 30, 2021 22:03
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:plus DP guns work just fine as secondaries against surface targets I'm hoping we see some sick sick broadside action somehow.
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Dec 30, 2021 22:30
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I can't wait to post Sink The Biskmark memes when Bismark's turn is up.
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Dec 30, 2021 22:43
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That song literally got me into milhist as a young child. It’s dorky as heck, but I owe it a lot.
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Dec 30, 2021 22:48
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| # ? Apr 20, 2024 13:10 |
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Out of idle curiosity, does the tonnage of the ship in any ways affect how much damage they can take? Because I'm staring at Bretagne here at almost double her RL listed tonnage, and wondering if that helped her last longer. I'm assuming any vaguely modern battleships are probably going to be close to their actual tonnages, but if it does help with absorbing damage then I'm wondering if there might be an edge case where some early WW1-era BB manages to close range with something squishy like a Kongo as a result of the much higher tonnage.
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Dec 30, 2021 23:52
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