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V for Vegas
Aug 31, 2004

THUNDERDOME LOSER
Well that was a poo poo game.

Highlight of the year ended up Carlton missing the finals.

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Testekill
Nov 1, 2012

I demand to be taken seriously

:aronrex:

Cameron up and about for a bloke beaten on the day despite his team dominating. What an unlikable oval office.

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Testekill posted:

Cameron up and about for a bloke beaten on the day despite his team dominating. What an unlikable oval office.

I agree people should be sad when receiving their premiership medals

monolithburger
Sep 7, 2011
Paddy McCartin finds a new life as a key defender, then ends up as a key forward for a half in a grand final.

You Am I
May 20, 2001

Me @ your poasting

Greatest Team Of All

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.
Best team of the year by quite a margin the whole season tbh, glad it wasnít us getting pantsed by them

ewe2
Jul 1, 2009

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

put clinton in prison imo


I only listened to the GF on radio so I have to reserve judgement until I see a replay but from the stats, they did nothing with Buddy. Surely after that first quarter, you'd change your tactics?! I know teams get a bit of the rabbits in headlights syndrome on these days but it seems very unlike the Swans.

monolithburger
Sep 7, 2011

ewe2 posted:

I only listened to the GF on radio so I have to reserve judgement until I see a replay but from the stats, they did nothing with Buddy. Surely after that first quarter, you'd change your tactics?! I know teams get a bit of the rabbits in headlights syndrome on these days but it seems very unlike the Swans.

It's hard to get your forwards into the game when you have half the inside 50s of your opposition.

glasnost toyboy
May 29, 2009
What a shithouse Grand Final.

At least neither Selwood or Dangerfield won the Norm Smith.

Testekill
Nov 1, 2012

I demand to be taken seriously

:aronrex:

ewe2 posted:

I only listened to the GF on radio so I have to reserve judgement until I see a replay but from the stats, they did nothing with Buddy. Surely after that first quarter, you'd change your tactics?! I know teams get a bit of the rabbits in headlights syndrome on these days but it seems very unlike the Swans.

I think De Koning sat on him the entire day and Kolodjashnij was given free reign to run off of Reid.

glasnost toyboy
May 29, 2009

Testekill posted:

I think De Koning sat on him the entire day and Kolodjashnij was given free reign to run off of Reid.

Might not be fair, but that miss at the start of the second was huge, he kicks that right after the restart and maybe there's some belief and momentum.

He misses, Geelong go and kick the next, and that was that.

Testekill
Nov 1, 2012

I demand to be taken seriously

:aronrex:

glasnost toyboy posted:

Might not be fair, but that miss at the start of the second was huge, he kicks that right after the restart and maybe there's some belief and momentum.

He misses, Geelong go and kick the next, and that was that.

Oh yeah, between Reid going down and McLean clearly not being ready for the big stage he was given nothing and seemed to give up early on. By that point he had zero confidence.

Spedman
Mar 12, 2010

Kangaroos hate Hasselblads

Testekill posted:

I think De Koning sat on him the entire day and Kolodjashnij was given free reign to run off of Reid.

Which wasnít the biggest challenge, considering Reid was essentially immobile and avoiding the ball.

Absolutely baffling selection

Testekill
Nov 1, 2012

I demand to be taken seriously

:aronrex:

RECORD BREAKING!!!

Gary Rohan vs Leon Davis

4 GFís vs 4 GFís

16 quarters vs 16 quarters (480 minutes game time including time on)

For

24 Disposals vs 36 Disposals
1 Goal vs 1 Goal
2 Behinds vs 1 Behind


We are watching the worst grand final ever player now. Congratulations Gary Rohan. We might never see a player embarrass themselves like this ever again. Historic.



Spedman posted:

Which wasnít the biggest challenge, considering Reid was essentially immobile and avoiding the ball.

Absolutely baffling selection

A cunning strategy to go in a man down, let's see how it played out.

Testekill fucked around with this message at 09:30 on Sep 24, 2022

gabensraum
Sep 16, 2003


LOAD "NICE!",8,1

gabensraum posted:

Cats by 50

Well I was way off

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

monolithburger posted:

It's hard to get your forwards into the game when you have half the inside 50s of your opposition.

Buddy got a mark in the 2nd or 3rd quarter that was in the back pocket, that desperate to get down and into the game to try and make anything happen.

Nutsngum
Oct 9, 2004

I don't think it's nice, you laughing.
Well that makes genuinely 2 good grand finals in the last 10 years. What a joke.

Chairchucker
Nov 14, 2006

The man was stunningly well dressed. He had a smart looking jacket, and a really neat looking cape, the lining of which was shimmering and sparkling in more than Oriental splendour, which is a great deal of splendour indeed, just ask Kipling.




I didn't end up watching this because instead I was going for a walk with my new ladyfriend and her puppy and that went a bit longer than initially planned, and then I checked the score at almost 3 quarter time and went lol glad I didn't watch this.

Anyway, now we can concentrate on the comp that matters

snoremac
Jul 27, 2012

2020 was a tight game until the last quarter.

In 2021 the blow-out after a tight first half was unexpected and cool.

snoremac fucked around with this message at 11:34 on Sep 24, 2022

Diet Crack
Jan 15, 2001

I don't rate Sydney still :smug:

cmndstab
May 20, 2006

Huge Internet Celebrity!
After such a good finals series, that was a real letdown of a GF. Still, the best side of the year won which I guess is all you can ask for.

Thankfully the season is over now so we can focus on real football.

Diet Crack
Jan 15, 2001

Unless you're Hawthorn, then you've got infanticide and abuse of power to focus on

FreeRangeHexagon
Apr 17, 2022

I'm trying to think of what the best finals games I've seen are, this year had some classics, that Freo vs Dogs comeback and the Pies vs Swans prelim. Such a shame Sydney followed up such a good win with that trash grand final performance. It seems like their nerves just couldn't handle such a big stage. It was still the best finals series since at least 2016, that year had that Cats vs Hawks game where Isaac Smith sabotaged the Hawks chances of four in a row with that missed shot after the siren. Who then could have known he would win a Norm Smith a few years later. And that amazing run the Dogs had that year, the prelim against the Giants might be the best AFL game I can remember. Then there was 2012, with that classic Crows v Hawks prelim. And the back to back Dogs vs Saints prelims in 2009/10.

It's a shame this Clarkson/Fagan stuff is going to cast such a long shadow. Because this was a really good season of football. It just sucks it ended on such an anticlimactic note. Still far from the worst grand final performance I've seen from Sydney, damning with faint praise, I know. But Geelong really were that good.

thepokey
Jul 20, 2004

Let me start off with a basket of chips. Then move on to the pollo asado taco.
This is basically how yesterday felt for me

V for Vegas
Aug 31, 2004

THUNDERDOME LOSER
At least no one watched it.

https://twitter.com/MrTVAus/status/1573824836421521411

ewe2
Jul 1, 2009

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

put clinton in prison imo


monolithburger posted:

It's hard to get your forwards into the game when you have half the inside 50s of your opposition.

To be fair, Swans did try a couple of things, with Mills and Buddy in the 1st quarter (in Buddy's case resulting in a 50m penalty and almost a goal, which might explain why they gave up on him), but moving Mills only made their structure worse, winning the centre bounce just passed the ball to a Cat.

It's one of those games that makes the midfield of a side look really bad like their only tactic was sending the ball to a forward and not thinking for themselves, the Swans needed its midfield to win here somehow and they just couldn't, they didn't have the tactics. It wasn't simply better faster stronger, the mental dimension was missing.

FreeRangeHexagon posted:

It's a shame this Clarkson/Fagan stuff is going to cast such a long shadow. Because this was a really good season of football. It just sucks it ended on such an anticlimactic note. Still far from the worst grand final performance I've seen from Sydney, damning with faint praise, I know. But Geelong really were that good.

Same, best finals series I can remember in years and a surprisingly good year for football after a hiatus and then...loving Hawthorn. Ban those guys out the sport, forbid any contact if possible personae non gratia beyond the pale and anyone like them in any other club who does anything like that. That Clarkson pushed for indigenous representation just so he could treat people he considers inferior like that, he's not fit to coach dogs much less people.

NTRabbit
Aug 15, 2012

i wear this armour to protect myself from the histrionics of hysterical women

bitches





Guaranteed twilight grand finals in perpetuity now

thepokey
Jul 20, 2004

Let me start off with a basket of chips. Then move on to the pollo asado taco.
This is quite possibly the worst/most cursed poo poo I've stumbled upon, "remixes" of club anthems https://open.spotify.com/album/7iZSxyz8JjYjw3nhn7Zc6r?si=UZRbbXemRcKFAjLsS_2B9w

Windmill Hut
Jul 21, 2008

Nutsngum posted:

Well that makes genuinely 2 good grand finals in the last 10 years. What a joke.

Disagree. The early blowouts have been really disappointed and there have been too many of them, but a lot of the games have been really enjoyable until the eventually winner took control in the fourth quarter.

2021: Pulsating game until the fourth quarter.
2020: Geelong looked like they'd win until the fourth quarter.
2018: All-time classic finish.
2016: Awesome game.
2013: Tight game most of the way. Freo could've won if they kicked staight.

gabensraum
Sep 16, 2003


LOAD "NICE!",8,1

NTRabbit posted:

Guaranteed twilight grand finals in perpetuity now

Yeah they'll use this, disingenuously.

I wonder if it made a difference being post-lockdown. All Melb people saw the last two at home, using more screens. Perhaps this time more people were congregating for barbecues.

Not necessarily fewer eyeballs, is what I'm saying, just fewer screens. Daytime GFs bring people together.

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.
Melbourne and Geelong havenít won a premiership without Shannon Byrnes on the payroll since 1964 and 1963 respectively

NTRabbit
Aug 15, 2012

i wear this armour to protect myself from the histrionics of hysterical women

bitches




Crows picked up 94% in one game today

snoremac
Jul 27, 2012

Admitting ignorance here. Why do women's games have such low scores? I understand the blow-outs because the league expanded at a rate where there's not enough talent to fill positions, but what is it that makes so many games just a few goals?

Chairchucker
Nov 14, 2006

The man was stunningly well dressed. He had a smart looking jacket, and a really neat looking cape, the lining of which was shimmering and sparkling in more than Oriental splendour, which is a great deal of splendour indeed, just ask Kipling.




snoremac posted:

Admitting ignorance here. Why do women's games have such low scores? I understand the blow-outs because the league expanded at a rate where there's not enough talent to fill positions, but what is it that makes so many games just a few goals?

Some speculation:

Much shorter matches
Lower level of talent and athleticism due to season being much shorter, lower paid, and in its infancy
Women having lower levels of the performance enhancing drug that is testosterone

FreeRangeHexagon
Apr 17, 2022

It is also pretty new, so they are probably working out the kinks, remember how low scoring twenty/twenty cricket was when it first started? And that was with guys who had already been pro level athletes prior.

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

snoremac posted:

Admitting ignorance here. Why do women's games have such low scores? I understand the blow-outs because the league expanded at a rate where there's not enough talent to fill positions, but what is it that makes so many games just a few goals?

As mentioned before, Quarters are shorter because time isnít called off for stoppages.

Players arenít as capable for a couple reasons:
- elite women athletes arenít as strong as male counterparts
-AFLW doesnít pay a full time wage so players canít put full time equivalent into skills or physical development
- We still havenít reached a draft year where the players involved have known right through juniors that an elite pathway is available to them
- School, juniors, and representative programs donít put as much effort into boys as girls

This then manifests on the field in a number of ways:

The AFLW set shot range for most players is around 25-30 metres, whereas in AFLM most listed players are capable of having a shot from within the 50m arc

This means the area you need to defend is much smaller, and you can create congestion more easily by allowing players relatively free or under zone defence outside 30 or so metres.

It also means thereís an extra disposal required while maintaining possession for most scoring chains, even in the menís comp this would reduce scoring, but the womenís game has much lower disposal efficiency overall which multiplies this.

Smaller kicker range and lower disposal efficiency also promotes more congestion around the ball. Thereís no use staying 60m forward of the ball if your team is extremely unlikely to get it that far without a stoppage. Similarly thereís not much use sitting 50m behind the ball as a goalkeeper. Thereís also a lot of missed handballs that would general be hit by most AFLM players which mean instead of the ball getting to the outside in possession, it remains in the contest and potentially another stoppage.

Itís a lot easier to spoil a mark than take it, so in a lower skilled competition you have less marks taken, both from possession and intercept.

The combination of kicking distance and fewer marks is hard to overstate. Most AFLM teams under minimal pressure would take one kick from the midpoint of the ground to having a shot on goal. For AFLW itís two kicks both of which are more likely to end up as contested ball than marks. If two teams are evenly matched, you need more coin flips in a row to go your way to score.

drunkill
Sep 25, 2007

me @ ur posting
Fallen Rib

snoremac posted:

Admitting ignorance here. Why do women's games have such low scores? I understand the blow-outs because the league expanded at a rate where there's not enough talent to fill positions, but what is it that makes so many games just a few goals?

Very short quarters (17mins usually of play, time only stops for stoppages in the last 2 minutes of quarters, which is loving dumb) and at the moment the league has expanded too quickly diluting the talent pool.

Although even with the foundation clubs it is not a national draft (still isn't) so the talent pools vary wildly per state.

The Crows had a superteam as they had exclusive access to talent in a footy state, Freo similar, Brisbane and GWS are not traditional footy states so the talent for women was a bit rarer but it has grown massively in the past 5 years.
While the vic teams all came down to that initial draft and then suddenly heaps of players moving clubs every offseason, as clubs could only offer one year contracts so building a cohesive team for Victorian clubs was very difficult, especially when the expansion teams got free hits to poach players without compensation.

As for lower scoring, until this season it was a summer competition, often games were taking place at 1:10 in 35 degree heat. That paired with part time athletes with full time work and study did mean a 'lesser' product. You'd have 2-3 players on most teams who were heads and shoulders above the rest.

There are also 2 less players on the ground per team vs the men (16 instead of 18) which may reduce some congestion around the ball in packs, it means the shorter kicks by the women with the smaller and lighter ball can't make as many link-up chains to move up the ground.

The next EBA should help make them fulltime athletes, they still aren't even with the payrise this season. They still train in the evenings after work or study and still only have limited club contact hours. 3 training sessions a week and one of them might be exclusivly gym time not actual training. Many were doing unpaid training sessions together at parks with housemates etc in the first few seasons.

But things still need to be done by the league, more underage development with the NAB League, more grass roots support and talent scouting, a national draft, with relocation costs covered. An even playing field for club salary caps, these final expansion teams were allowed to outspend existing clubs to acquire talent, although that won't be as much of an issue going forward.

However, players are still paid outside the cap with media appearance fees, company cars etc.

tl;dr: young competition still, the draft is a crapshoot for some teams, lots of injuries, not enough training and skills development time once players are drafted to the AFLW teams.

snoremac
Jul 27, 2012

^^^Cheers for all the info. I'm gonna get into the Richmond team for the rest of the season after hearing they knocked off undefeated Brisbane.

It'll be interesting to see how the women's game evolves given the differences highlighted in SS's post.

drunkill
Sep 25, 2007

me @ ur posting
Fallen Rib
Oh, also, not even a full season so teams don't play each other once and infact some teams are yet to face others after multiple years in the competition

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MysticalMachineGun
Apr 5, 2005

AFLW first showdown on Friday, hopefully has a big turnout

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