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 Welcome to the 2022 iteration of Cheese Thread, now with more dystopia! I am a cheesemonger and ex-chef currently working towards CCP (Certified Cheese Professional i.e. cheese sommelier) certification, and thought we should refresh the thread for the new year. This OP will give a quick rundown of the common types of cheese and concepts of cheese making. Follow this thread for #cheesefacts! Parmigiano Reggiano  The "King of Cheeses", this is the real deal Italian PDO (Protected Designation of Origin, also notated as DOP; more on this later) parmesan. They were making this in the 13th Century or earlier. This unpasteurized cow's milk cheese comes exclusively from the Emilia-Romagna region of northern Italy, and is produced with an extremely specific process involving mixing fresh morning milk with skim milk from the previous night. The cheese is aged at least 12 months, and production of it uses 18% of all the milk in Italy. "Parmesan" is any cheese made in the style of Parmigiano, but not from the original region. Gouda  A variety of sweet and creamy cow's milk (traditionally) cheese, originally produced in the Netherlands. Gouda cheese was first mentioned historically in 1184, which makes it one of the oldest cheeses in the world that is still made today. Gouda as a term covers the style of cheese making and flavor profile rather than any specific cheese itself, and is a pretty broad category covering multiple styles and ages. Younger goudas tend to be mild and slightly fudgy in texture, while aged gouda starts obtaining caramel and butterscotch notes. Higher ages also begin forming  CHEESE CRYSTALS , which are fuckin amazing (these are just crystallization of different substances that form as moisture content lowers in the cheese with age).Cheddar  Originating in an English village called... Cheddar, cheddar cheese is the most popular cheese in the UK by far, and the second most popular in the US (behind mozzarella). This style of cheese has no PDO, although there is a PDO for certain specific cheddars from specific areas of the UK. Produced since at least the 12th century, it wasn't until the 19th century that specific formulas and methods were codified and standardized, creating the techniques that produce the cheddar that we know and love today. Cheddar goes through a unique process called "cheddaring", where after the curds and whey have been separated, the curd is kneaded with salt and cut into cubes to drain, then stacked and turned periodically. Manchego  Semi firm Spanish sheep milk cheese, Manchego has a PDO designation for certain areas of central Spain. This type of cheese is aged anywhere from 30 days up to 2 years, and the compact, buttery texture gets harder and sharper with age. This style of cheese is produced by pressing the curd into molds, giving it the compact and dense texture it is known for. Traditionally, this was done in a style of grass woven basket, giving it the distinctive pattern on the rind; this is now achieved with patterns inside the factory molds. There a number of other cheeses made in this style, such as La Dama Sagrada (goat manchego) and Campo Montalban (cow, goat and sheep). Blue Cheese  Cheese made with injections of various Penicillium mold cultures, originally thought to have originated in France. It is thought to actually have been an accidental discovery, found when cheese were left in caves that had naturally controlled climates that happened to be ideal for the growth of certain strains of harmless mold. In fact, the earliest variety, Roquefort, is said in legend to have been created by a horny French boy who left his cheese in a cave to chase a pretty girl, and happened upon it months later to find the new product. Blues are produced similar to most other cheeses, but are sprinkled with the desired mold cultures, fermented, and then pierced during the ripening process to allow air and moisture to penetrate into the cheese, allowing the mold to grow. Blue cheese is very strongly flavored, often with aggressive acetone and umami generated by the interaction of the molds with fats. Alpine  "Alpine" , or Swiss, cheeses originated in the Alps of Europe, and have a very distinctive character gained from their historical methods of production. Semi-hard to hard, these cheeses tend to have hard rinds, and have their character due to the methods required for making cheese for the people in the Alpine regions as they moved into and out of valleys with the seasons. Traditionally, cheeses of this type are produced in large wheels, and are generally very durable and robust for the sake of transport. The varieties most commonly found are cow's milk, but there is nothing specifically requiring this type of milk to be used. The unique production process for these products involves heat incubating the cheese, or "cooking" them at medium temperatures. Tend towards nutty and buttery flavors, and have various uses in cooking. Soft Ripened  A broad category of cheeses covering things like brie, Camembert, or Humboldt Fog, soft ripened cheeses (also called "bloomy rind cheese") are soft, spreadable, sometimes runny cheeses that are produced using different strains of Penicillium molds, which generated the fuzzy, white, edible rind. Individual cheeses in this category might have a PDO, but there are so many varieties of soft ripened cheese that you can find something good almost anywhere. Washed Rind  A variety of cheeses with textures ranging from soft to hard, washed rind cheeses are treated with saltwater brines or other mold bearing substances, such as beer, wine, or liquor. These cheeses develop a very distinctive and potent flavor from the bacterial growth encouraged by the brine treatment, tending towards the "stinky" quality that you either love or hate. Limburger is a particularly potent and well known variety of soft washed rind cheese, but there are plenty of other varieties that are common and well loved across the world. Fresh Cheese  Cheeses made from curds that are not aged or pressed are referred to as "fresh cheese". This includes mozzarella, ricotta, feta, and (the common, soft spreadable) goat cheese. These cheeses are not generally treated with preservatives, and can spoil very quickly. The easiest cheese to make, it involves variations of a simple curdling and straining of milk. CHEESE MAKING Almost all cheeses involve the 6 main steps of cheese making: Acidification, Coagulation, Separation, Salting, Shaping, and Ripening. Some specific cheeses are given extra steps to the process depending on their individual methods, such as blues being punctured or cheddars being cheddared. This whole process is both incredibly scientific and very artistic; you monitor pH levels in one step, and then discard the wheel because it just doesn't feel right. 1. Acidification Starter cultures or acids are added to milk, which change the lactose (the sugars present in milk) into lactic acid and starts the series of reactions that turn the liquid milk into a solid. 2. Coagulation Rennet (a set of enzymes usually harvested from the stomachs of calves, but fungal and microbial rennets are also used) is added to the liquid, causing it to further solidify. 3. Separation The curds and whey at this point begin to separate, and the curds are usually cut or raked to extract more of the whey. The more the curd is manipulated and cut here, the harder the cheese will end up being; things like brie are barely hosed with, while things like Comte are cut very fine. The whey is eventually all drained away, leaving the solid curd to become cheese. 4. Salting Add salt in various ways. This adds flavor, and also preserves the cheese so it lasts through the months it can take to mature into its final product. 5. Shaping The prepared curd is put into whatever mold it will use to attain the finished shape, such a wheel or block. Some degree of pressing occurs here for most cheeses to press out any remaining liquid. 6. Ripening The final, and longest, step, this is where the cheese is left to sit in whatever cave or room for however long is necessary to achieve the desired consistency and characteristics. The French term for this process is affinage, and once completed results in a finished cheese. This is the time when rinds will form, blue cheese molds will grow, and bloomy rinds will bloom and become fuzzy. This is a great page with some info on how to get started with making cheese at home. It is definitely one of those things that seems super difficult and intimidating, but in reality is a pretty simple process once you have the require knowledge and materials. OTHER STUFF TO KNOW Some extra info, as well posts I've made elsewhere that lead me to make this thread Protected Designation of Origin (PDO, or DOP) A type of geographical indicator of EU and UK, which is used as a way to protect and preserve the origins of food products. When people say "you can only call in Champagne if it comes from the Champagne region of France", they are talking about PDO. There really isn't much else to this; if something has a PDO, you can't use the same name unless you make it there. Sandwich Anarchist posted:I sell cheese for a living and am working on becoming a CCP (certified cheese professional, think sommelier but for cheese). Sandwich Anarchist posted:So blues are a complicated category. The first thing to know is that the type of mold used in the cheese is a major element in what happens to the product. You've seen things called Gorgonzola or Roquefort, which are named for the mold strains used. Most blues fall into this trap where they are "blues first, cheese second", meaning that the acetone and salty flavors punch you in the face. This is why most people don't like blue cheese; they've only had dogshit blues. Alkydere posted:I need to get some tasty goat cheese and crackers. Been too long since I had a snack like that... Stay fresh, cheesebags. 
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Jan 16, 2022 23:54
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Bum the Sad posted:Double Gloucester crew represent. It's my favorite cracker cheese. Yeah its delicious. I like the Cooper's Hill with shallot and chive. I miss the wheel roll  Slimy Hog posted:What I really want to know is how to find bergblumenkäse Good loving luck. Imports are really difficult right now; I'm having to constantly shuffle inventory with what I can get ahold of to keep the case full. Sandwich Anarchist fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Jan 17, 2022 |
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Jan 17, 2022 00:54
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Zil posted:There is an Italian place that uses shaved Grana Padano on their pizza and was wondering if there was anything you could tell me about it. Yeah, it's basically Parmigiano Reggiano, but made in a different region (Lombardi, I think?), and from cows fed different feed, including something called silage, which is more or less pickled grass. Doesn't use the exact same method of milk mixing either. It's a good cheese. Anne Whateley posted:Is there any Parmesan better/older/crystallier than vacche rosse? If so, how can I obtain it and inject it in my veins? Nope. That's the best there is, aged longer than regular reggiano too. quote:If I was called away and a wedge of Parmesan got tragically rock-hard in my fridge, is there any saving it? Not really, but you could try cutting away the really hard outer layer, wrapping it in a damp towel, putting it in a ziplock bag and putting it in the fridge for a day. You MIGHT get something you can grate, but it's a crapshoot. Sandwich Anarchist fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Jan 17, 2022 |
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Jan 17, 2022 01:20
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Memento posted:Could you use a really dried out parmesan in making stock? Yeah that would probably work, or throw in your pasta water
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Jan 17, 2022 01:30
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:Greetings cheese lovers. Well I have a tonne of stories, tastes, and even some questions. Where to start. Wensleydale is hard to get right now, just like anything out of the UK. I carry both cranberry and blueberry, but can't get ahold of anything else reliably.
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Jan 17, 2022 03:16
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:The description here seems accurate. "Mild" is a good word to include as it's not a sharp cheese. https://cheese.com/wensleydale/ I get in 5 pound wheels with thick colored wax that we cut into wedges and plastic wrap. #cheesefact: Wensleydale cheese was in danger of extinction in the 90s, as sales had dropped so low that they couldn't continue producing it. Then Wallace & Gromit came along and mentioned Wensleydale as the main character's favorite cheese in a couple animated shorts, which lead the owner of the cheese production facility to reach out. They partnered up and released a W&G branded Wensleydale that was a huge success and saved the facility. Sandwich Anarchist fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Jan 17, 2022 |
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Jan 17, 2022 03:43
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Carillon posted:Is this where I can express my love for Rogue River Blue? I came across it almost accidentally, but hot drat, it's fantastic. Rogue River is unbelievable. It's very hard to get, as they only release it in the fall in limited quantities. This year in particular was really bad due to staff and supply shortages from covid, so they produced less than half of what they projected. We only got one wheel, and it was gone that day.
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Jan 17, 2022 03:48
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Seth Pecksniff posted:I am going to give this thread the highest honor I can bestow, which is bookmarking it. I do it for a living and love it, so getting the cert would be great for my career. It is hard as gently caress lol, so much to know. There is a test you have to take, and courses ahead of it. The course content is very in depth, and goes into history, process, financials, marketing etc.
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Jan 17, 2022 04:16
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prayer group posted:Cheese is something I of course love but haven’t really taken the time to dig too deep into. I’m curious to hear if there’s any interesting experimental stuff being done that you know about; say, cheddaring a Manchego-style cheese or whatever, blending techniques like that. To be honest, not really. Cheese is an industry deeply steeped in tradition, and people REALLY fuckin care about it. It isn't common at all to see places doing really new or experimental stuff. And that's only part of it. Cheesemaking is a very expensive, labor intensive, and time consuming process. Doing something off the wall that ends up not being good would be a huge waste of time and resources. You have to understand, cheese makers don't have a steady income stream; they generate income in bursts when batches of product are finished. Which leads me to a #cheesfact Back in 2012, a series of earthquakes hit the Emilia-Romagna region, and hosed everything up big time. The Parmigiano warehouses got demolished, damaging or destroying like 350,000 wheels of the cheese. Each wheel being 80 pounds or so, meaning 14,000 tons (or 126 BLUE WHALES) of cheese was lost. Chef Massimo Bottura, one of the best chefs in the world, is a native of the Emilia-Romagna region, and created a recipe using Parmigiano Reggiano (risotto cacio e pepe). He organized a fundraiser for the recipe and had people all over the world get into it. Every single wheel was sold, and the Parmigiano industry was saved. The date of 10/27 is Parmigiano Reggiano Night, and celebrates the world coming together under the guidance of one man to save a legendary cheese from extinction. Sandwich Anarchist fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Jan 17, 2022 |
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Jan 17, 2022 04:44
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Seth Pecksniff posted:Chef Massimo, you are a hero and I really need to try risotto cacio e pepe https://www.chefspencil.com/recipe/risotto-cacio-e-pepe/
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Jan 17, 2022 04:49
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Memento posted:I wanna find something with those Robusto gouda, Seaside cheddar. Both available at your local Whole Foods Sandwich Anarchist fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Jan 17, 2022 |
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Jan 17, 2022 05:41
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Zipperelli. posted:What are some realistic things to do with my leftover cheese rinds? I always have some leftover from either parm or gouda and never know what to do with them, and throwing them away always feels wasteful Gouda rinds are just wax, throw em out. Parm rinds can be thrown into your pot with pasta to add some body and cheesiness to the noodz, or used to create a parm stock for use in other recipes.
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Jan 17, 2022 05:43
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Pillow Armadillo posted:Can you speak at all to any of the training or certifications required to become a cheesemonger in the United States? The term "cheesemonger" means someone who sells cheese. I got into it with no experience in the field. They wanted someone with food safety and ordering experience.
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Jan 17, 2022 06:17
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Jaxyon posted:What's the best mass produced cheddar? I would imagine they're all similar, but then someone turned me on to Kerrygold butter and it's just noticeably better butter to me What do you mean by "best"? Personally, I am partial to Barber's 1833, but it's all subjective.
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Jan 17, 2022 06:49
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Riven posted:AITA for just eating the rind? Who doesn’t eat all of the perfectly good cheese they bought? Not eating all of it is like, alien to me. I’m having a real “people who fold vs people who scrunch” TP moment here. Some rinds aren't edible, and there is a lot of uncertainty lack of knowledge out there
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Jan 17, 2022 07:01
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Missing Name posted:People treat me like a monster for eating the rinds of brie exclusively. You're eating half the cheese and being smug about it. Eat the rind with the paste, like it's intended.
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Jan 17, 2022 07:14
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We got a block of Tillamook 10 Year cheddar that was absolutely incredible. Best cheddar I've ever had by a mile.
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Jan 17, 2022 15:32
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz1JWzyvv8A
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Jan 17, 2022 17:17
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chitoryu12 posted:I'm trying to remember what was the last cheese I really liked. I think Midnight Moon. Midnight Moon is one of those "everyone loves this" cheeses. Really, everything Cypress Grove makes tends to be excellent.
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Jan 17, 2022 18:18
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Jet Jaguar posted:The other day I found a smoked goat cheese wrapped in a maple leaf at our local upscale market. It was really tasty, I normally think of cheddar or Gouda as a smoked cheese, not goat cheese. Smokin' Goat is another smoked goat cheese from Spain, and is pretty good! I had three people today ask me for Armenian string cheese, which of you was it?
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Jan 18, 2022 03:14
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Grand Fromage posted:I don't care for cheese. gently caress you
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Jan 18, 2022 04:42
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Data Graham posted:"Not much call for it round here" you could have gone with I quote the skit to customers all the time without them knowing it. "The van broke down", or "never at the end of the week, get it first thing Monday morning".
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Jan 18, 2022 14:54
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Teach posted:I always used to suggest to the old dears who came into my shop that I had "something with a blue vein for them in the cellar". Different times. 
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Jan 18, 2022 15:56
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Jan 19, 2022 00:34
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RapturesoftheDeep posted:Awesome, a cheese thread! I love cheese, but don't know much about it, because I will happily eat anything except sharp Provolone and stuff that smells like ammonia. I don't like paneer at all, but enjoy other cheese like halloumi. Humboldt Fog is excellent. Sweet Grass Dairy out of Georgia is a great mid-south Atlantic creamery. Speaking of paneer and halloumi, time for a #cheesefact! During the cheese making step of Separation, usually rennet is used to start the process of solidifying the curd by extracting the whey. But some cheeses are acid set, where acid is used to curdle the milk instead. This actually dissolves the calcium structures that glue the proteins together, so when the cheese is later heated, they can't fall apart to let the proteins loosen. Instead, water is cooked off, causing the proteins to continuously move closer together, toughening the cheese up. This is why cheese like halloumi and paneer can be grilled and cooked without melting, and why stuff like ricotta or queso fresco will not melt smooth no matter what you do. Sandwich Anarchist fucked around with this message at 05:52 on Jan 19, 2022 |
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Jan 19, 2022 05:42
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Spanish Manlove posted:What are some good dry and funky cheeses like really old manchego that we can get in FL? What do you mean by "dry"? And funky meaning what, smelly? Gamey?
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Jan 19, 2022 05:52
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:ps Current stock includes Gouda! (the usual red wax big wedge). Mahon/mitica. Red Leicester. Cheddar (Neal's yard) plus one last bit of a similar NYs. Manchego. Oh and there's one serving of plastic left in a cardboard box from NYE but don't tell anyone. I currently have: Petit Basque St. Nuage Red Leicester Drunken Goat Hed posted:Abondance but they have had it in a long time and it was our favorite! If I can’t source it can someone suggest substitutes? I’m not really sure what family it even is. It is an Alpine cheese produced in France near the Swiss border, and should be pretty similar to Comte. greazeball posted:Some hopefully interesting cheese facts from Switzerland (I'll wait for the expert's approval before using the official hashtag): This is an excellent #cheesefact that I didn't know, thank you! That amount of milk usage is pretty normal for a cheese of that texture, too; Parmigiano Reggiano takes around 13 liters for a kilo. Sandwich Anarchist fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Jan 19, 2022 |
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Jan 19, 2022 14:38
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Superterranean posted:a cheese I wish I encountered at my local deli more often: Mimolette, aka Boule de Lille. Bright orange from annatto, rind cratered from cheese mites, when aged 18+ months it is hard and nutty and butterscotchy; when younger it is more reminiscent of an extra-old cheddar. Such a fun cheese. There is a story about mimolette, in that while Napoleon was in exile, he was not allowed to have cheese, but was allowed fresh fruit. So he had his loyalists smuggle mimolette in for him under the guise of it being a melon. 
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Jan 19, 2022 15:51
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distortion park posted:Manchego is a sheep's cheese, you could try the French versions from the other side of the Pyrenees. Ossau-Iraty AOP is the most well known and broadly available, but there are a lot of small producers in Bearn and the Pays Basque and the (non-AOP/PDO) cheeses are quite varied, from strong tangy sheep's milk cheeses to milder moreish "mixte" brebis/vache ones. I'm not sure why some places call it AOP, others PDO, it's a kind of a fake designation anyway which ironically is mostly applied to higher volume products. AOC is Appellation d'origine contrôlée, Appelation of Controlled origin, a French certification. DOC is Denominazione d'origine controllata, Designation of Controlled origin, an Italian certification PDO is Protected Designation of Origin, an EU umbrella certification. Something can be either AOC or DOC, and can also be PDO, or not. Generally, something won't be PDO if it isn't also AOC or DOC. Sandwich Anarchist fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Jan 19, 2022 |
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Jan 19, 2022 16:31
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Teach posted:When I was a cheesemonger, Mimolette was my least favourite cheese as it's a bastard to cut neatly. That rind is had as (appropriately) balls. Yeah it is a mother fucker for sure. We leave it out for hours to soften and then score the rind really deep
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Jan 19, 2022 16:42
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Superterranean posted:the first time I had some, the cheesemonger I got it from (probably in Lyons?) used parmesan knives to open it and sold it craggy. That would be easier for sure, but you can definitely get it clean if you take your time and let it come to temp and score it, but that's not really feasible somewhere that doesn't pre cut and package cheeses for merchandising. 
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Jan 19, 2022 16:52
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Scarodactyl posted:Thanks, I am going to track these down. Kite Hill makes good products as well. Really good ricotta.
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Jan 19, 2022 16:54
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:Help it's so hot in here and it's not even summer! what Grandito posted:Can someone recommend me a cheese similar to the catamount hills cheese they sell cubed at Whole Foods? Cabot makes it, and I think it's technically labeled as a cheddar, but it doesn't really taste very cheddar-y. Not really anything to be honest. Catamount is a pretty unique cheese, being a cheddar with swiss and parmesan cultures. PhantomOfTheCopier posted:One concern I had (years ago) buying that 5lb of wensleydale was keeping it alive. Any good guides on who likes a complete wrap of plastic in the fridge, versus sitting out on a counter breathing freely? I wouldn't leave any cheese out on the counter once it's cut open. The same as any food, once you manipulate something it becomes an at risk item for food safety concerns. Some of the more aged, low moisture cheeses like ParmReg can stay out at room temperature for extended periods, but even stores that display them at ambient temperature move them into the cooler over night. That said, most cheeses are best eaten when allowed to come to room temperature or close to it. Sandwich Anarchist fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Jan 20, 2022 |
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Jan 20, 2022 00:07
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PainterofCrap posted:Just a general question. What happens if/when you freeze cheese? I imagine it's different based on the age & ripeness/softness. Depends on the cheese. Stuff like cheddar or mozzarella can be frozen pretty much no problem. Aged, harder cheeses don't do well frozen, they get very dry and crumbly. Things like ricotta, cream cheese, and brie shouldn't be frozen at all, or they will separate and turn to absolute poo poo.
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Jan 20, 2022 16:57
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Android Apocalypse posted:What cheese do you think will go well with canned fish like sardines? Mainly ones packed in oil, not likely to have other flavors. Sandwich Anarchist posted:Do not eat sardines with cheese.
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Jan 20, 2022 17:13
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#cheesefact The reason the cheese gets crumbly after freezing is that when it freezes, the water molecules crystallize into shards of ice; this pierces and slices up the walls of the cellular structure, almost like popping a water balloon. When you thaw the cheese, all of the water that was contained in those cells turns liquid and leaks from the damaged cell structures, causing the cheese to rapidly dry out and lose the binding properties that keep it from being crumbly. This is even worse in soft cheeses, where they turn into mushy oily poo poo. This same principal works when freezing most anything, including fruit. Water crystallizes, pops cell walls, water leaks out and blows out the texture. If you want to freeze things, your best course of action is to vacuum seal them first. This keeps the food from contacting the air, which would allow additional moisture to be absorbed, which means more ice crystals to savage the cellular structure. Sandwich Anarchist fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Jan 23, 2022 |
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Jan 23, 2022 18:04
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Arkhamina posted:Thinking ahead to summer - what are the best cheeses you'd recommend for longer hiking trips where cooling is not really an option? Cheese was originally a way to keep perishable milk a longer viable food, after all. Thinking harder ones (mimolette!) but any recommendations welcome. Planning on some 2-3 days through hikes, likely in 70s F temp range. Hard cheese is correct. Alpines especially, as they were specifically made by people who hiked up and down mountains, but anything like aged gouda or swiss will hold ok. Cheddar will NOT.
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Jan 23, 2022 18:34
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Bum the Sad posted:Cheese doesn’t have cells. I mean the internal structure of the cheese, protein structures and such. The concept is the same across all foods, just misspoke about the structural element used. Ice forms, slices poo poo up, everything leaks water and goes to poo poo.
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Jan 23, 2022 18:48
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Ya boy got it
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Jan 24, 2022 17:51
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Look up Casu Marzu
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Jan 27, 2022 23:02
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