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Real talk, the Russians do build tanks designed for smaller people iirc.Charles Bukowski posted:So NATO wants to back Ukranian Nazis vs Russia? ...Why? NATO is 100% an anti Russian alliance
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# ¿ Jan 25, 2022 11:33 |
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# ¿ Apr 18, 2024 05:28 |
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Sex Farm posted:Crimea river lol If only crimea had a decent river.
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# ¿ Jan 25, 2022 11:38 |
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Pennywise the Frown posted:I just learned a new word today. Take it to cspam pal, this is Global BloodShed.
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# ¿ Jan 25, 2022 12:23 |
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STABASS posted:I want to do my duty as a patriot and invest in some defense contractors, but unfortunately none of them sell nfts... It's worse, somehow. Honeywell is now tracking 1 billion in Boeing parts on the blockchain https://www.forbes.com/sites/michae...sh=6b2ad7b678bf https://www.reuters.com/technology/boeing-wants-build-its-next-airplane-metaverse-2021-12-17/
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# ¿ Jan 25, 2022 12:29 |
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Betty Wight posted:I’d prefer no war, a united earth under a single hegemony. However sometimes it’s okay to fight against people doing bad things to ensure it isn’t normalized. Whose hegemony? America doesn't go to war to help people but naked self interest of it's ruling classes.
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# ¿ Jan 25, 2022 14:40 |
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QuoProQuid posted:russia has presented demands that no country can actually fulfill and just this morning appears to be sending the national guard to the border. neither of those things really suggest a peaceful outcome What are the demands?
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# ¿ Jan 25, 2022 14:57 |
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Big Beef City posted:Are the 'Nazis' in Ukraine interested in keeping Ukraine independent? Far too hopeful. NATO membership has if anything given Turkey more leeway to commit human rights violations. Klyith posted:Russia has a pipeline under the Black Sea to send gas to Turkey, and is just finishing up the Nord Stream to send gas to Germany. Both are direct from Russia to avoid anyone else taking a cut for transit, like Ukraine has been doing for the past while. Those naval yards have remained Russian since the dissolution of the USSR. Invading Crimea happened because Ukraine threatened to take them away.
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# ¿ Jan 25, 2022 23:34 |
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The desire for a second potato is the first good evidence I've seen of Russia looking to invade Ukraine.
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# ¿ Jan 26, 2022 00:55 |
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Faded away.
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# ¿ Jan 26, 2022 02:42 |
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:if merking some spook guy most americans havent even heard of is the most retaliation they could do for the assassination of their most famous military hero and commander of their armed forces, then that's pretty pathetic imo Killing the head of the CIA's Iran branch is a pretty good achievement imo. What's the point of killing some useless General when there's 100 more near identical fatsos ready to replace them? dk2m posted:Ukraine is now just some nameless eastern flank country lmao. We’re gonna Kurd the gently caress out of Ukraine once we get tired of lionizing them This, but America in the south China sea.
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# ¿ Jan 26, 2022 08:23 |
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Like, agreeing with the Ukrainian defense secretary? Or...
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# ¿ Jan 26, 2022 11:35 |
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Business Gorillas posted:one of the benefits of being a fuckin dumbass like myself is i can just say "Nazis are bad and we shouldn't be giving them military aid & money to advance our geopolitical agendas" without having to twist myself into knots trying to justify it Yeah I think America should spend less on its military too. Klyith posted:no, major planners and architects of the CIA don't go into conflict zones Like you can just flick through this guys wiki page and see that, yeah, he spent time in conflict zones.
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# ¿ Jan 26, 2022 15:01 |
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Kosmo Gallion posted:Serious question, why is Ukraine so valuable to Russia they'd risk starting a war over it. And why is the West so determined to defend Ukraine they'd risk starting a war over it? The west is focused on China so there is an element of opportunism by Russia. But as others have said, NATO is an anti Russia alliance headed by America, a country who just loves invading other countries all the dang time, so having it pressed right up against Russia is a bit of a worry. America is very unlikely to go to war over Ukraine. It's a good way to sell a bunch of weapons though and if they're lucky bog Russia down in a costly war. Putin seems to be too smart to just go hog wild though. Russia has been dealing with western sanctions since 2005. They've been targeted by America in it's quest to stay #1, which has basically failed anyway (see, China). Regarde Aduck posted:How much of a simpleton do you have to be to think Ukraine has anything Russia wants? The gently caress is wrong with you people. This is posturing between two powers, Nato vs Russia, and neither wants to back down and neither is entirely to blame for this shitshow. Grow the gently caress up. The Donbass has a lot of heavy industry and Ukraine produces a lot of food. Russia has banned food imports from the USA, UK, EU, the Canada, Australia, Norway, Ukraine, Albania, Montenegro, Iceland and Lichtenstein. Both of those things are useful to Russia and certainly play some part in Putin's calculus, but they're not at the root of the conflict. What is, is Sevastopol, the Russian naval base in Crimea, which Ukraine started making noises about not leasing back to the Russians iirc as leverage to get cheaper gas prices. This went down poorly. So I guess Ukraine has something de jure Russia wants but not de facto. It's also simplistic to see NATO as a monolith, American and German goals in just this one conflict are pretty different.
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# ¿ Jan 26, 2022 23:55 |
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Play posted:There are other reasons but primarily Ukraine was a part of the former soviet union and putin has ALWAYS believed that every country which used to be part of the ussr belongs to Russia. We have seen them try to make this a reality in many different countries in the last couple of decades. Do you seriously believe the west supports countries having self determination? Why won't we leave Iraq, despite their parliament asking us to? Or all the other invasions? Ukraine applied to begin a NATO membership action plan in 2008, so that's a pretty big fundamental change. What if, Russia would just like Ukraine not to join NATO and doesn't intend to invade beyond what it has already, as seems most likely? Like they need Sevastopol as a key part of their security and supporting the breakaway Donbass republics gets them leverage but that's enough for their aims. Skyscraper Raccoon posted:Biden's gonna kill so many people that he'll be a lock for the next Nobel Peace Prize Nah they don't give those out for actually promoting peace and Biden has mostly killed Americans.
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# ¿ Jan 27, 2022 00:37 |
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Big Beef City posted:Funny. FWIW despite being staunchly anti American interference here I think your post about how best to deal with nazi elements in Ukraine had some merit. I think it's wrong though purely on the metric of when did American foreign involvement last work out for the people of that country? I'd also like to point out that there is a difference between having nazis in your country and incorporating an explicitly nazi militia into your national guard, as has happened with the Azov battalion (now a regiment). Of course, when you're under pressure like Ukraine is, the enemy of your enemy being your friend perhaps shouldn't be judged too harshly.
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# ¿ Jan 27, 2022 00:46 |
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QuoProQuid posted:perhaps my memory of 2008 is hazy but, as i recall, NATO explicitly refused to put ukraine and georgia on a track to membership after they expressed interest, in part as a concession to russia (who felt its security concerns weren't being appreciated) and to reduce regional tensions I think it was when Yanukovich was elected Ukraine dropped it. https://www.kyivpost.com/article/content/ukraine-politics/ukraine-makes-it-official-nation-will-abandon-plan-67901.html SRQ posted:lol @ the idea of nato being imperialist when people have just wanted to join it, desperately and willingly, so Russia doesn't pull a Georgia on them. NATO isn't particularly imperialist, they're anti Russia. They don't want to invade it, they want to keep it weak and isolated. Although NATO did head the occupation of Afghanistan for a while.
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# ¿ Jan 27, 2022 00:50 |
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QuoProQuid posted:yes, im p familiar with ukraine and georgia's situation. yanukovych''s removal (because he was poo poo) is also the trigger that led russia to have its freakout and annex crimea and start propping up a whole war in donbass You framed it as NATO wouldn't let the Ukraine in but it was Ukraine who ended the application process afaik. Play posted:As wrongheaded, evil, pointless and stupid as the US invasions in the middle east were, they never permanently occupied those countries and the goal was always to create democracies there. Democracies which would be aligned with the United States of course, but there was never any thought of permanently occupying or making those countries part of the us' holdings. Having it be a requirement that you have an American aligned government is pretty similar to keeping an occupying force there. It's called neo-colonialism bud. America is still in Iraq. All advice from the state department etc on how to transition peacefully to a democracy was ignored by Paul Bremer. Iraq wasn't invaded out of heartless altruism mate. If you want something more recent as far as Ukraine joining NATO, they updated their constitution in 2019 to include the stuff about joining NATO. I was giving you the starting point of change. Again, I think what Russia is doing is bad. I'm not calling the two sides the same and have not. What I'm saying is that American interference always goes bad for the locals. Even if all these foreign invasions were done with the best intentions (lol) at a certain point you have to look at the past and use it to influence your future plans. So, can you point me at an American foreign intervention that went well for the locals?
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# ¿ Jan 27, 2022 01:27 |
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Betty Wight posted:Balkans No USSR then.
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# ¿ Jan 27, 2022 01:30 |
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Xenocides posted:This. The last US intervention that went well was Desert Storm when Iraq invaded Kuwait, a nation what explicitly didn’t want to be conquered. The US had a simple military objective of removing the invaders. No endless fighting of insurgents. The people we were liberating genuinely wanted to be liberated. It was quick and effective and then done and actually helped some people. Except Sadam was under the impression he had American permission for the invasion from talking to the ambassador and America bombed water and sewage treatment plants (a warcrime) resulting in iirc a million civilians dead.
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# ¿ Jan 27, 2022 01:47 |
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pro starcraft loser posted:I like how the entire argument of Russia is that they dont want NATO on their doorstep...so they will invade more countries until NATO is literally on their doorstep due to the countries they conquer. Point me to where Russia has said they will invade Ukraine. It's not their argument, it's an argument that's been put in their mouths.
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# ¿ Jan 27, 2022 02:15 |
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Taerkar posted:No you don't understand, NATO forced Putin to invade Georgia. It's only by invading Georgia could Putin show all those former Soviet states that they'd be better off without NATO promising to help them remain independent. How come south Ossetia and Abkhazia don't get to be independent? Don't you support their people's right to self determination?
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# ¿ Jan 27, 2022 02:21 |
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Betty Wight posted:This is just being willfully ignorant of the geopolitical situation. Stop doing the FSB’s job unless you are getting a paycheck. Lol you are the person who thought the USSR existed during the Balkans genocides in the 90s. Also if I was receiving a Russian paycheck it would more likely be coming from the SVR. You don't even know what the FSB is.
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# ¿ Jan 27, 2022 02:24 |
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NSFW https://i.imgur.com/2xUXrJf.png Xenocides posted:It was horribly lovely (both literally and figuratively) to hit the water treatment infrastructure and then petty to put the parts needed to fix them on the embargo list. Maybe it was a mistake but I'm not convinced that spook president didn't set it up on purpose. It would have been very easy to be clear.
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# ¿ Jan 27, 2022 02:35 |
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Betty Wight posted:You seem to be pretty mad. Like someone who got called out. Am I bothering you at work? Are you currently posting from St. Petersburg? No I'm just dismissive of somebody who doesn't know when the USSR dissolved telling me I don't know about geopolitics. You may notice my long winded informative posts to people who aren't morons and are posting in good faith.
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# ¿ Jan 27, 2022 04:45 |
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ChunTheUnavoidable posted:ukraine is being jumped into nato this is a hazing thing They need to hurry up and invade Russia. Pretty much every major NATO country has, I think it's basically a requirement for membership. Spain, you're on shakey ground.
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# ¿ Jan 27, 2022 05:41 |
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Weka posted:They need to hurry up and invade Russia. Pretty much every major NATO country has, I think it's basically a requirement for membership. Spain, you're on shakey ground. poo poo, maybe Ukraine is going to make a big push into Donbass. America is shipping anti bunker rockets. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...RgB8USbFb3SI480
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# ¿ Jan 27, 2022 06:47 |
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Much like states, most people are both good and bad in varying degrees.
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# ¿ Jan 27, 2022 08:57 |
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SRQ posted:The USSR was totally a friend to the global lower class, largely because I think they realized it was a great way to fight the capitalist status quo. Any time said global lower class decided they didn't like the soviets they had a pretty fair chance of having their own form of 'police actions' done on them. They also backed a ton of awful regimes. I don't think it's accurate to call China fascist.
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# ¿ Jan 27, 2022 23:41 |
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StoryTime posted:I think they should shoot the gay bomb at the soldiers to either lower or improve their morale, I dunno. Fine, strap that jdam kit to me.
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# ¿ Jan 28, 2022 10:53 |
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pro starcraft loser posted:I thought I saw that Germany is willing to use the pipeline in sanctions against Russia if they invade. If so, this is pretty much over as that'd be crushing for Putin. https://www.dw.com/en/us-nord-stream-2-will-not-move-forward-if-russia-invades-ukraine/a-60568732 Confirmed. I don't know how crushing it would be though, there's the Belarus pipeline and of course if Russia were to conquer Ukraine then of course there's those pipelines too. This is probably just a low cost indication of support from Germany to appease America.
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# ¿ Jan 29, 2022 00:20 |
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I've seen no real evidence they intend to invade. Do you think America is planning to invade Russia because they have 74,000 troops in Europe?
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# ¿ Jan 29, 2022 00:33 |
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Betty Wight posted:The scare stories are so that people support us going into Ukraine. Russia is already the belligerent. These articles are entirely for the US home audience so that if we do need to play world police there is popular support for the action. Good as in effective, sure. Good as in moral, well... Play posted:I like how the one party not mentioned by this brain genius is the country full of people about to get invaded and murdered The war in Georgia was to support the breakaway republics of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, who don't want to be part of Georgia and have claimed independence since the breakup of the USSR. The majority of people in Crimea have voted repeatedly in support of independence from Ukraine. The Donbass however is another story, where most people seem to want to be part of Ukraine. Obviously Putin didn't enter these conflicts out of the goodness of his heart, but it's harder to criticize military actions in support of self determination.
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# ¿ Jan 29, 2022 06:08 |
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Sekenr posted:Lol how did Crimea vote "repeatedly" to be part of Russia when there was exactly 1 quik n dirty referendum 2 weeks after military occupation You're right, I was confusing polling with voting. They have been repeatedly polled with similar results though. Here's one, more are at the link. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_status_referendum "The United Nations Development Programme conducted a series of polls in Crimea between 2009 and 2011 about the question of leaving Ukraine and joining Russia with a sample size of 1,200:" code:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2015/03/20/one-year-after-russia-annexed-crimea-locals-prefer-moscow-to-kiev/?sh=5fe72e29510d E: spelling Weka fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Jan 29, 2022 |
# ¿ Jan 29, 2022 22:35 |
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Earwicker posted:in the late 1930's most citizens of the Free City of Danzig, who were mostly German speaking, wanted to leave Poland and be annexed by Germany. does this mean one shouldn't criticize the German invasion of Poland? If Germany merely annexed Danzig it would be harder to criticize. Note I didn't say you shouldn't criticize anything. steinrokkan posted:Lmao, the Ossetians did a brutal ethnic cleansing of all the Georgians, and the crimeans did the same to the indigenous Tartars. I guess genocide is self determination. You know the difference between ethnic cleansing and genocide bud so if you want to criticize me please do it without the bullshit.
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# ¿ Jan 30, 2022 00:20 |
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You know in the 90s Georgian militias burned down like 80% of Tskhinvali, where most people in South Ossetia live, right? I'm not saying the subsequent expulsion of Georgians was good but it's pretty understandable. How do you feel about the expulsion of Germans from eastern Europe following WW2?
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# ¿ Jan 30, 2022 20:52 |
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Looks like Ded Moroz has had a haircut.
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# ¿ Jan 30, 2022 22:01 |
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Uncle Enzo posted:I completely agree with the point you're trying to make: if the people in a country have done bad things, they deserve to get invaded by Russia, who will surely be more humane. Unironically they almost certainly were more humane. South Ossetia and Abkhazia should be allowed to be independent nations without military intervention in an ideal world but we don't live there. Probably less than a thousand people died as a result of this war. Maybe it was bad, although I'm sceptical, but I think it's fairly clear Russian military intervention is more humane than a bunch of Caucasians ethnic cleansing each other, and an order of magnitude atleast more humane than any American military action atleast since ww2.
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# ¿ Jan 31, 2022 02:23 |
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eSports Chaebol posted:the Russians saw NATO wanted Free Kosovo and they thought the fine print said “free Kosovo with another breakaway republic of equal or lesser value” but the deal is void where prohibited! LOL. Flavahbeast posted:are you talking about the war with Georgia or the war with Ukraine? Georgia was was under 1000 by most estimates Ive seen but the Ukraine war is at like 15000 and counting Yeah that whole exchange was about Georgia. Crimea was what, half a dozen deaths? As I've said, the Donbass stuff is pretty hard to justify.
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# ¿ Jan 31, 2022 06:16 |
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Dang, have you fellows heard about this Defender Europe jazz? An operation run in 2020 and 2021. Here's some highlights from wiki for 2020. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATO_exercises "On September 4, the American B-52s entered the airspace of Ukraine for the first time in history, where they made a long flight along the borders of the Crimean peninsula.[10] On Sep. 25, two U.S. bombers staged a mock attack run on Russia’s territory in Eastern Europe. The flight path allowed the bombers effectively to fly a circle around Kaliningrad, a Russian exclave on the Baltic between Poland and Lithuania. The simulated raid on the Kaliningrad region was a test case of destroying Russian air defense systems located in the region.[11] Altogether, in August-September 2020, American nuclear weapons carriers flew at least 18 times to Russia's northern, western and southern borders during the operation, which is an unprecedented event since the end of the Cold War.[12]"
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# ¿ Jan 31, 2022 06:29 |
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# ¿ Apr 18, 2024 05:28 |
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I mean, obviously, when killing 15,000 people pales in comparison to your yearly atrocity rate, this might not seem like a big deal, but most countries (all except one) are not in the habit of nuclear brinkmanship style "training exercises". Nobody needs another Able Archer 83. Like how do you not see 18 sorties by nuke bombers right up to the edge of Russian airspace as an aggressive act? How can you expect Russia not to see it that way? That's a genuine question I'd love you to answer.
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# ¿ Jan 31, 2022 09:27 |