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Dameius
Apr 3, 2006
Honestly for me the worst part of Keylith's arc was not even her fault per se. It was the run there where Vax had frequent 1-on-1 scenes with her where he let loose his inner emo. No one scene was bad but the frequency in a short run got to be a bit of a slog.

e: lol what a snipe.

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Paracaidas
Sep 24, 2016
Consistently Tedious!

Doltos posted:

As someone who never watched CR and loved the show, Scanlan is the worst character since Jar Jar Binks. I think that appears in every negative review I've been seeing. I can easily see people who are unfamiliar with CR being turned off and never watching the show after episode 1 solely because of Scanlan.
....
The finale shows him in a way better light but man does he suck the air out of the show if you're not used to him.

Doltos posted:

It's the same problem as Keyleth ruining every fight by being super timid/cowardly before blasting off a deux ex machina spell. Their characters are drags, why should I cheer for them?
These are good takes and get towards some of why I'm as disappointed with the Scanlan they chose to include fot this series. Your comparison with Keyleth is particularly insightful, I think, so I'm going to use it as a jumping off point to tie in with this:

Froghammer posted:

Scanlon gets better. All of Season 1 is him pre character development.
Did we need this version of him in Season 1? Was all of this integral to his arc? I'm becoming more convinced that it wasn't--at least, not in the way that the dynamic Doltos described is for Keyleth's arc. I had more words here but I'd say Keyleth may have been the most tightly plotted member of the ensemble (other than Percy, obviously) this season... her most memorable moments for me-positive and negative, right from the opening tavern- tell where she is, where she's going, and why she hasn't gotten there yet. And I struggle to recall much that doesn't serve that purpose. Something for the rewatch. With that said, I mentioned up thread that Keyleth's arc is one of the toughest for me to put myself in a new viewer's shoes on, so don't take this as telling you you're wrong for finding her a drag or that you're missing something you should see. I just think the parts you identify as irritating are intentional and in service of the broader plot... which doesn't make her less of a drag now. Hell they had Vex voice most of your irritation (which came before the coupling and showed a nonVax reason for her to dislike Keyleth)!

Scanlan, on the other hand, I have a tougher time seeing that way and justifying. Yes, his character improves (somewhat) on stream, but I don't know that the extended beads musical or the atonal jokes during the whitestone fights add anything to that eventual growth? You have his lack of impulse control leaving the team shorthanded (tavern fight, briarwoods round 1, desire to hit brothel rather than stalk Tony Hale), his inability to read a room (the rap, reginald, unsubtle beads joke at the soverign's table), that the team has tired of his bit (campfire), and that they think he's a joke (scanbo prelude). These are all the elements you need for a great character growth and redemption arc that can play out over 1 or 2 seasons and show incremental progress along the way. So gently caress it, later tonight or tomorrow I'll post the Paracaidas guide to fantasybooking making Scanlan less of an issue.

Dawgstar hits the underlying issue well upthread. Scanlan plays better on stream because you can see Sam's tongue in cheek attitude about it and that it's cracking up the cast. Genuinely I get the sense that because the cast knows Sam is thoroughly not that guy they miss how Scanlan comes across, especially to those who've had negative interactions with people who cannot keep an appropriate table and use roleplaying and general nerd culture to creep. It's not like they don't get that dynamic, given Orion's halfchub idiocy (or the various "what works at our table and in our group may not for your's" comments around party members dating), they just don't seem to apply it with Sam and to Scanlan.

Dameius posted:

e: lol what a snipe.
... would we call that "inner"? ;)

Raged
Jul 21, 2003

A revolution of beats
That is a lot of words about a cartoon.

Also, Scanlon owns

FlavoFibe
Nov 9, 2015
Yeah I think Scanlon's great, though that might be because I've watched all of campaign 1. Honestly compared to early stream Scanlon he's pretty toned down in the cartoon. The Briarwood arc is so dark that the occasional joke feels like a nice way to break up the misery.

Wyld Karde
Mar 18, 2013

She's so ~dreamy~
Oh. My. Gods.

If you can, tune into the Twitch watch party right freakin' now. They have Grog and Scanlan live in the studio. Not Travis and Sam, Grog and Scanlan. They've gone vtuber on us.

Paracaidas
Sep 24, 2016
Consistently Tedious!
Jesus christ Grey, just add water.

Push El Burrito
May 9, 2006

Soiled Meat

Paracaidas posted:

Jesus christ Grey, just add water.

Mica: "It smells like cum and protein powder in here."
Matt: "Mmm, familiar..."

Paracaidas
Sep 24, 2016
Consistently Tedious!
Every time Tal drops something like "I've been kicked by a mountain goat, it's not fun", I just want to hear more.

Raged
Jul 21, 2003

A revolution of beats

Paracaidas posted:

Every time Tal drops something like "I've been kicked by a mountain goat, it's not fun", I just want to hear more.

When you are a immortal being you gets tons of life experience.

Double Agent
Mar 28, 2005

Maybe we're not just a bunch of frak-ups after all.
Everyone loves the guy who brings a guitar to the party.
He'll gently caress your girlfriend.

Paracaidas
Sep 24, 2016
Consistently Tedious!
Interesting that Grey wasn't the first choice for Delilah! Would love to know who it was. e: I may have misunderstood "Scratch" in an animation casting context?

Raged posted:

When you are a immortal being you gets tons of life experience.
He could, and has, hosed up a dodo bird.

Paracaidas fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Feb 23, 2022

Dameius
Apr 3, 2006
You wouldn't think pyramids could get around so easy.

Gaz-L
Jan 28, 2009

Paracaidas posted:

Interesting that Grey wasn't the first choice for Delilah! Would love to know who it was. e: I may have misunderstood "Scratch" in an animation casting context?

He could, and has, hosed up a dodo bird.

Scratch is a temporary track usually used to let other actors have something to react to or to help animators time out the scene.

Teddybear
May 16, 2009

Look! A teddybear doll!
It's soooo cute!


Gaz-L posted:

Scratch is a temporary track usually used to let other actors have something to react to or to help animators time out the scene.

Yeah-- I think they said in a prior episode that they had Ashley read Delilah in the scratches and animatics. Since the main cast are all producers and integrally involved in the process as opposed to the guest cast who had much more limited roles, it makes sense that they would do the scratch lines for animatics themselves.

Dameius
Apr 3, 2006
Matt and Ashley did all of the scratch tracks for all dialogue in all episodes. They mentioned it somewhere at some point. Probably one of the promotionals or backer updates I saw.

Wyld Karde
Mar 18, 2013

She's so ~dreamy~
"His dick's bigger, but it doesn't work." Offically canon.

Abroham Lincoln
Sep 19, 2011

Note to self: This one's the good one



Dick broken :smith:

ApeHawk
Jun 6, 2010

All the NPCs will look up and shout, "Do this quest!"
and I'll whisper, "Sure, why not."
Can't cast Raise Undead on dick.

Push El Burrito
May 9, 2006

Soiled Meat
Matt getting all emotional seeing his works being put on screen is good. I'm happy for him.

Abroham Lincoln
Sep 19, 2011

Note to self: This one's the good one



Grey is a chaotic energy I was not expecting. :allears:

Wyld Karde
Mar 18, 2013

She's so ~dreamy~

Abroham Lincoln posted:

Grey is a chaotic energy I was not expecting. :allears:

Even Sam is just sitting back and letting her do her thing.

DogsInSpace!
Sep 11, 2001


Fun Shoe

Dawgstar posted:

I figured this one is worth showing, because it's an extremely Gamer moment. https://youtu.be/2mB-aM2bIBk?t=8687 Travis' headshake when Orion asks is pretty great.

(As a warning this is Orion's last episode and things get really awkward down the line. It's got the bit where he tries to leverage his background by calling in troops he would not have access to.)

Oh wow that was awkward and hilarious. I have only done Pathfinder/DnD for a brief period but managed to have two different guys pop in like that. One turned out to be an actual nazi that was super obvious to me at least. Luckily neither lasted long but jesus the grognarditude was soooooo bad. They also spent hours trying to powergame and generally hijack any session. Love my boy Grog’s reaction.

Always drawn to flawed characters or diamonds in the rough who become actual heroes than guys who start out fine. Key being unsure and scared at first was cool to me as they were a party of damaged gently caress ups. If she’s that way forever that would suck but it’s fairly obvious she won’t stay that way. I figure the show was good enough to give it that chance. Hoping all the characters grow from their starting points.

Chemtrailologist
Jul 8, 2007
So does the bear ever do anything useful in any of these stories?

Push El Burrito
May 9, 2006

Soiled Meat

Chemtrailologist posted:

So does the bear ever do anything useful in any of these stories?

He is very cute.

Detective Eyestorm
Jan 6, 2012

Chemtrailologist posted:

So does the bear ever do anything useful in any of these stories?

Just wait until they animate the Honey Heist specials, which are extremely canon and definitely vital to the Critical Role mythos.

Real answer:

Push El Burrito posted:

He is very cute.

Dameius
Apr 3, 2006
Eventually he gets a pokeball necklace to live in.

CuwiKhons
Sep 24, 2009

Seven idiots and a bear walk into a dragon's lair.

Chemtrailologist posted:

So does the bear ever do anything useful in any of these stories?

Ranger as a class, and Beast Master as a subclass especially, were absolutely jank for quite awhile in 5e (Beast Master, as written, seems to have originally intended for rangers to treat their companion animals as expendable and replace them frequently as they died. This is.... not the ideal fantasy anyone has if they want to play a ranger with an animal companion). They've since seen some updates and Matt went out of his way to buff Trinket even before that so he'd be both more useful and also more likely to survive fights. That said, he's 100% more of a mascot than contributing member of the party.

Although ironically, he was originally involved in the Whitestone arc (Vex didnt leave him behind) and Trinket actually got a killshot on a notable baddie, Tylieri, who wasnt in the show. Trinket put the guy's entire head in his mouth and bit it clean off. Sadly, he hasnt done much else of note combat-wise.

CuwiKhons fucked around with this message at 10:05 on Feb 23, 2022

Alan Smithee
Jan 4, 2005


A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

Push El Burrito posted:

He is very cute.

so he's the equivalent of a powerful elixir/weapon that never gets used "in case" you need it later

Alan Smithee
Jan 4, 2005


A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...
so Orion lost 500 gold on that failed spell fusion. How much did they have? Everything costs hundreds of gold per transaction

Dameius
Apr 3, 2006
Gold totals have always been kind of meaningless past 1e when it was used as XP. Whitestone arc they basically had the gold to get one or two big ticket items and most of the consumables they'd want. By the end of the next arc they basically had no more real financial constraints on them and at most they just need to shuffle things around in the moment to make whatever purchase they wanted. They even had recurring payroll for their keep eventually.

Gaz-L
Jan 28, 2009

Alan Smithee posted:

so he's the equivalent of a powerful elixir/weapon that never gets used "in case" you need it later

As Cuwi mentioned, there's a bunch of mechanical jank that makes him not that useful in combat, plus Laura Bailey, who plays Vex, really didn't like the idea of him getting hurt so would avoid using him in fights. Plus the animators apparently don't like having to animate a realistic bear, so all 3 things combined lead to a mascot that doesn't really do much.

seaborgium
Aug 1, 2002

"Nothing a shitload of bleach won't fix"




Push El Burrito posted:

He is very cute.

Big role in Grog's one shot as well. Hopefully they animate that, they already had Scanlan bust in on people playing a D&D like game.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017

Dameius posted:

Gold totals have always been kind of meaningless past 1e when it was used as XP. Whitestone arc they basically had the gold to get one or two big ticket items and most of the consumables they'd want. By the end of the next arc they basically had no more real financial constraints on them and at most they just need to shuffle things around in the moment to make whatever purchase they wanted. They even had recurring payroll for their keep eventually.

It was always funny that Vex was never really straight when they asked how much money they had as a group, although Matt didn't bother with copper counting anyway.

Dameius
Apr 3, 2006
Laura suffering psychic damage watching Travis have Grog "negotiate" with a merchant truly was a fun time had by all.

e: Also I absolutely cannot wait for this scene next season, maybe season 3 if there is one depending on pacing? Link to video, putting it behind spoilers in case anyone has some kind of auto preview for YouTube URLs. Click link for spoilers.

Dameius fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Feb 23, 2022

CuwiKhons
Sep 24, 2009

Seven idiots and a bear walk into a dragon's lair.

Laura was always in charge of bookkeeping buuuuuuuuut, Travis is the one who holds onto the bag of holding, which means he's in charge of what goes in there. There was a really hilarious moment at some point in Campaign 1, I forget when, where Laura and Travis were out of town and were Skyping in to play and at some point their connection froze. When they reconnected, Travis looked very sheepish and Laura had disappeared. He admitted Laura had just found out that at some point, the party had shoved something like 500 platinum pieces into the bag of holding and because Travis was the one in charge of that, he'd ended up forgetting about it (he had it written down, he just didn't remember it). That's the equivalent of 5,000 gold and Laura was outraged that somehow nobody had ever told her they had a huge pile of platinum in the bag.

Alan Smithee
Jan 4, 2005


A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRvkjLdvXMk
vtubing is the future

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound
getting deeper into watching campaign 2

how many of these intricate detailed battle maps does matt mercer make and then just never use because the party doesn't go into that particular swamp or whatever

also was that echo knight guy supposed to be a major long term NPC he invented a whole class for and then the dude just dies in like one episode?

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

how many of these intricate detailed battle maps does matt mercer make and then just never use because the party doesn't go into that particular swamp or whatever

If he's like any other GM, the answer is "a lot."

Abroham Lincoln
Sep 19, 2011

Note to self: This one's the good one



Hieronymous Alloy posted:

also was that echo knight guy supposed to be a major long term NPC he invented a whole class for and then the dude just dies in like one episode?

Usually it's the players who wind up using Matt's homebrew stuff that gets released eventually, but iirc this was more just to flesh out the world more. iirc it comes up again later and it's an official fighter subclass in the Wildemount book.

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CuwiKhons
Sep 24, 2009

Seven idiots and a bear walk into a dragon's lair.

I distinctly remember a point in Campaign 1 where the party had just mopped up a plot thread and had four different plot threads in wildly different directions they could go in and they couldn't agree on where they wanted to go before the session ended but they were firm that one in particular was one they wanted to put off until later. Matt, unsure of where they were going next since they hadn't decided, had to do triple the prep he normally did for the next session because he had no way of predicting which of the other three options they were going to take.

For the record, they ended up going to the exact location they had decided they weren't going to go. Matt's despair was palpable. D&D baby.

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