Peer Review: Feedback on the new D&D.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Peer Review: Feedback on the new D&D.

some plague rats: Jun 5, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

Here's a question about mod policy. I got probed a coupe days ago- it was a sixer so who cares but it raises some questions

Uglycat posted:

I have a radicalized leftist activist friend that I met while traveling on hippie busses through the Trump administration, and I warned him many times about qanon, and he still got catfished by an insane qanon lady and they went together to the Jan 6 riot and I'm pretty sure he was deliberately targeted and brought there to be someone they could scapegoat in an effort to shift the Overton window at exactly the moment you describe.

He and I don't talk anymore, and I kinda did everything I could to tear him down and raise alarms, after rel posted about killing, cooking and eating a cat as bookofedith was working toward forcing a standoff between that community and the feds.

Anyhow, I've suspected exactly this - the hypothesis you posit, that the Trump people had a contingency in place in advance of Jan 6th to blame antifa under a certain set of circumstances- for over a year now. And I know an 'antifa' person (more of a sea shepherd type) that got catfished into attending. I don't think the feds ever picked them up.

some plague rats posted:

What on earth are you talking about here?

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

The probe reason was "do not do these kind of posts" so I'm wondering what exactly is the Koos-era policy on asking people what the hell they're talking about? Do we need to provide a breakdown of what exactly didn't make sense? Are we supposed to ignore posts that read as absolute gibberish?
Could use some pointers on a mod approved way to ask for clarification. Cheers

# ¿ Jan 29, 2022 03:31

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# ¿ Apr 25, 2024 14:05

some plague rats: Jun 5, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

Yeah following on from that post I just want to highlight this exchange

Lib and let die posted:

No, I don't. You're making up the argument that we'd have socialized healthcare if it weren't for military spending.

But you've also got the star and buttons so

CommieGIR posted:

Have I probed or threaten to probe you a single point in this discussion? gently caress off with this poo poo.

Lib and let die posted:

Nope. but I know better than to push an issue when you specifically are arguing from moderation - you've told me I need to respond to an argument you've made up in your head and I am declining to do so, because that way leads frustration, lashing out, and probations. I'm good - I've gotten all I think I'm reasonably going to out of this discussion and am happy to drop it.

CommieGIR posted:

You invented the 'or else'. Asking for proof is pretty normal in D&D. Done discussing this with you.

feel like LALD raises a reasonable concern, and commie proceeds to escalate things in a way that would have got literally anyone else in d&d hit with a stiff probe- imagine if one of us had told him to "gently caress off with that poo poo"- and throw his weight around. It's lovely moderation from someone who seems consistently unwilling to post by the rules he enforces on everyone else, especially when the other mods now seem to be sticking so strenuously to the Koos Model.

# ¿ Jan 29, 2022 03:44

some plague rats: Jun 5, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

Koos Group posted:

That one was a personal mistake on my part, as indicated in my followup.

Because the post was reported, I thought you were being willfully ignorant. That's what I would want to avoid with asking someone "what are you talking about," because usually you could ask for clarification on specific points instead. But as you showed, there are some cases where something is so wholly incomprehensible you honestly have no choice but to ask them to explain the whole thing again.

Yeah, that makes sense. It wasn't you who probated me though, so is this your personal take, or something that is agreed on by all the mods here?

# ¿ Jan 29, 2022 04:41

some plague rats: Jun 5, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

CommieGIR posted:

I mean...if you feel its probe worth: Report it. Mods are fair game, and I've been hit before as a mod. But in no way did I use probes as a way to shut down arguments I was involved with in that example. So I guess: What's the problem? I have no doubt Koos will freely probate me or call me out if I'm doing something wrong and I also specifically asked for mod peer review of that argument in general.

Koos addressed it a couple pages later, agreeing that there was a tone issue there and that you hadn't taken the mod star into account when posting, so he clearly didn't think it was probe-worthy. Which doesn't foster much faith in the mod peer review system, considering anyone else posting like you did would have got hit for it, and you're the one who is supposed to be keeping us in line. It's all a bit one law for us, one for them. I mean, here was your followup, where you're still flipping your poo poo about it:

CommieGIR posted:

If I was going to probe anybody for debating and discussing with me, I would've already done it.

Here, I'll help you:
If you believe I am threatening to use my buttons or my position as a mod to force you to do something when debating and discussing the topic at hand, contact Koos Group and provide evidence. Now shut the gently caress up about it

Bolding not mine. the tone of everything you post, moderation-wise, is just wildly out of step with every other mod here and also with the type of forum Koos keeps saying he wants to foster

# ¿ Jan 29, 2022 05:32

some plague rats: Jun 5, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

nomad2020 posted:

My only real interaction with D&D is the COVID thread, it's a dumpster fire, don't know if that's new for you guys or no.

It's impossible to have a good covid thread for self-selecting reasons, because anyone who wants to spend their free time discussing covid is insane

# ¿ Jan 30, 2022 00:26

some plague rats: Jun 5, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

Freakazoid_ posted:

I'd say D&D is going in the right direction now, but there's still some ways to go. Ramped probations seemed to have mostly stopped, I'm guessing because the new rules kind of act as an excuse to turn over a new leaf. I'm hoping that more of the old rules come back just as a natural turn toward enforcing debate.

Ramped probations were a terrible idea and it's great to see them gone. My feedback is to never start doing them again.

# ¿ Jan 30, 2022 02:04

some plague rats: Jun 5, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

Spoke Lee posted:

Perfect example here. It's implying discussing an ongoing crime against humanity isn't worth discussing. They are openly demonstrating the intent is to inhibit debate by minimizing mistreatment of a vulnerable population.

How does this follow at all? Where did BF do any of this?

# ¿ Jan 30, 2022 07:12

some plague rats: Jun 5, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

Koos Group posted:

Perhaps. While there's a feedback thread I'd prefer feedback to go here, but on the other hand Fritz's post was quite ridiculous and it would feel strange if no one was allowed to point that out. The boy is very enthusiastic about modding correctly, sometimes so much so that it makes one want to say "bless his heart."

It's a baffling probe because it was clearly not intended to be feedback. Fritz is god's perfect special boy and should not change for anything, and since that's the second time in like a week that he's given me a weird, inexplicable probe my feedback is that he should step off my back

# ¿ Jan 31, 2022 01:34

some plague rats: Jun 5, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

Fritz the Horse posted:

What constitutes a white-noise or low-content post? When should mods act? Instant 6er on sight? Issue a reminder/warning and then probes if it continues? Let occasional low-content posts slide but if it becomes a pattern for a user, take action? I'm genuinely curious to gauge peoples' thoughts on it.

This is the best of the options you gave but preferable would be "do nothing unless it actively derails a thread and makes it worse." If someone posts white noise or one liners and everyone just moves straight past it and the conversation carries on, it's not a moderation issue at all. No one is served well by robocop moderation in the rolling counter, "citizen you are guilty of posting [7] white noise posts, the legal limit is [5] white noise posts" style

some plague rats fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Jan 31, 2022

# ¿ Jan 31, 2022 01:36

some plague rats: Jun 5, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

MikeC posted:

You get to redefine what the word abuse means now?

edit: I mean it makes sense right? Any time your position is attacked. Just redefine the word to something so ambigious and implies it means something else so you don't have to deal with it. Just like how Authoritarianism derail happened

This is just unbelievably hosed up and lovely and if you don't get hit for thinking like this and then posting it where people can read it then it's time to clear out all the mods and get some news ones

# ¿ Jan 31, 2022 03:50

some plague rats: Jun 5, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

Koos Group posted:

Since it's a dictionary definition Vox is allowed to use the term that way, and since he's so, erm, particular about things I don't even think he's intentionally using it to evoke what it does. But I do wish he would stop lol.

Koos this is a pretty bad response. "Well he's technically correct so I can't actually stop him from doing something heinous!" is the kind of d&d moderation you'd make up as a cruel parody. It's desperately unhelpful and the kind of decision that is going to encourage awful shitheads to come in, gently caress up discussions and say things that are obviously going to rile other posters while maintaining a figleaf of "well, the dictionary says..." It's the kind of robotic, explain-to-the-trolls-why-they're-wrong moderating that made this place unbearable to post in the first place

# ¿ Jan 31, 2022 04:25

some plague rats: Jun 5, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

Panzeh posted:

Yeah, this is why the 'pointing out hypocrisy' is worthless- people posting in a forum thread aren't responsible for what the US does anyway, so pointing it out is basically just a massive dodge and attempt to scrub the thread of anything negative about China. "You don't have moral standing" is a bizarre way to argue on an internet forum, IMO. It's the bizarre oscillation between moral grandstanding and harsh realpolitik that gets on my nerves about a lot of the c-spam contingent's posting.

Why would people be doing this. What do you imagine is in it for them. Because it seems like you're saying "people posting things I disagree with don't actually believe them, they just have a sinister pro-prc agenda to push" which would not really be in the spirit of d&d, would it

# ¿ Jan 31, 2022 11:22

some plague rats: Jun 5, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

Solkanar512 posted:

This is some pretty amazing burden shifting. Sure, folks could drag up posts from elsewhere screaming about “libs” or “posting is praxis” but expecting the rest of us to read your mind before pointing out bad posting is really something else.

Asking someone to explain their opinion is "burden shifting"?

# ¿ Jan 31, 2022 19:26

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# ¿ Apr 25, 2024 14:05

some plague rats: Jun 5, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

Koos Group posted:

It's now an official rule that mods can't probate someone they're in an argument with, so combined with CGR's recognition that they should be careful with their tone, I'm optimistic this will be less of an issue.

This is a good start, but it doesn't prevent other mods from coming in and handing out probes to anyone being rude to their buddies. When mods involved in an argument say something like "I'll get some other mods to look over this" it comes across as "I want to probe you but that would violate the rules so I'll have someone else take a look because there's a good chance they'll think like me"

Koos are you the official mod spokeman? Because it's odd to have a feedback thread where half of the mods don't even post anything, even when their specific decisions are being called into question. Commie came by, god bless him, and Fritz and I think GJB but goutpatrol specifically hasn't said anything despite being one of the more active mods in terms of handing out probes?

# ¿ Jan 31, 2022 23:16

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