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symbolic
Nov 2, 2014

HolePisser1982 posted:

We don't want to fixate too much on these individuals because there's no way to say what level of representation is "enough" when the concerns go far beyond the team's makeup, but it is inaccurate to say that no Chinese people worked on the project.

These facts don't erase the concerns that people have surrounding the game's content or marketing, the valuable conversation to be had about authenticity and, as one reviewer put it, "cultural tourism," and most importantly, the safety of our peers in the industry who are facing harassment for their valid critiques.

really awesome reviews happening over at resetera

HolePisser1982 posted:

I first heard of this issue from a Chinese writer on twitter, but oh no the person apparently hates white people (as a white person, I don't blame him!), so CLEARLY that invalidates any critique over this, clearly!

Like I said, this is gross. I don't care if you wanted to make a Chinese game, you would've been smarter to recruit actual Chinese people to design and direct the game. You can oversee it as the "creator", but this just screams "Chinese by white people" if that makes sense.

lol christ

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ol yeller
Feb 20, 2015
hello there, Mr Woks? yes hi i want to place an order for take out. no, i don't want to hear your specials, but if you could bring me your nastiest freakiest food i would be forever in your debt

symbolic
Nov 2, 2014

Seriously. The entire time Sifu has been getting marketed I've been watching it going "ummmmmm...."

This has been my worry with all of these games and movies and pieces of media that borrow aesthetics from Asian cultures without actually understanding the intricacies or the perspectives of those cultures themselves.

American media needs to do better than going "we have an Asian person consulting on our majority-white project that mines Asian culture for profit" and assuming that's enough to sidestep criticism. We need lead designers and directors of Asian descent. We need Asian writers and artists and composers. It doesn't matter if it's a Disney movie like Raya and the Last Dragon, or a Sony game like Ghost of Tsushima, or an indie game like Sifu - this poo poo keeps happening and it feels like the creative field isn't learning the necessary lessons despite the frequent recurrence of these problems.

We need to do better.

mysterious loyall X
Jul 8, 2003

goferchan posted:

This review made me buy Sifu and its loving awesome. Basically a beat em up with a really precise idealized version of the Yakuza combat system

edit: First level basically has the Oldboy hallway scene in it lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-bnptgGPP4

Sifu looks chill and i like the shaw brothers knock off into. However its on the cringe pedophule run digital distrobutoon network instead of the noncringe/based pedophile run digital.distribution.network

That Little Demon
Dec 3, 2020
The problem, however, with only distilling Sifu purely down to its mechanics and systems, is that criticism from the cultural or socioeconomic perspective has long been overlooked, as if these are less important aspects of the game that don't deserve as much attention. It somehow implies that mechanics and gameplay are sacrosanct to games, as if that's all the medium is capable of—a point that we obviously know is not true.

That Little Demon
Dec 3, 2020
It's 2022 now, and many games have absolutely gone beyond mechanics

symbolic
Nov 2, 2014

utterly baffled 35 year old indie dev squeezing the hell out of a stressball while trying to figure out why gameplay is regarded as vital to a video game

That Little Demon
Dec 3, 2020
In between bouts of Sifu's ferocious brawling, there's a scene I can't help but keep thinking about: a particular graffiti that was hastily drawn on a wall, presumably by a local drug dealer. It's a Chinese phrase that says "一手交钱, 一手交货" which, although there is no direct translation, means something like "Die Properly".

Kongming
Aug 30, 2005

The last straw for me was when the director of Sifu, upon being confronted with these accusations of cultural appropriation, pulled his eyelids back and responded "Me so sorry you no rikey me game!"

We absolutely have to do better.

Pablo Nergigante
Apr 16, 2002

Quite frankly I think it's lowkey toxic to make a game based on Chinese culture during their ongoing persecution of the Uighurs. *Sips tea*

Sub-Actuality
Apr 17, 2007

Whilst playing through my review copy, I found myself distracted by a question that threatened to consume my conscience like Alf consuming the Tanners' pet cat: What exactly is Milon's Secret Castle trying to say? It's been nearly two years since the Space Shuttle Challenger disaster, and try as I might, I could find no direct mention or even oblique reference to what has to be the most devastating and defining tragedy of our generation. Are we to assume that Hudson Soft wants us to forget about the socio-political impact of last year's events? Or, more nauseating still, do they simply have nothing to say about it?

It's 1987 — we can do better. We must do better.

Fungah!
Apr 30, 2011

Sub-Actuality posted:

Whilst playing through my review copy, I found myself distracted by a question that threatened to consume my conscience like Alf consuming the Tanners' pet cat: What exactly is Milon's Secret Castle trying to say? It's been nearly two years since the Space Shuttle Challenger disaster, and try as I might, I could find no direct mention or even oblique reference to what has to be the most devastating and defining tragedy of our generation. Are we to assume that Hudson Soft wants us to forget about the socio-political impact of last year's events? Or, more nauseating still, do they simply have nothing to say about it?

It's 1987 — we can do better. We must do better.

lmfao

I got the tude now
Jul 22, 2007

HolePisser1982 posted:

As a white ((sic) left intentionally lowercase out of disdain) person I recognize that my voice is fundamentally stifling in its power, and will be withholding my thoughts, which I assure you would have been furious. Please take this time to google Chinese people, and consider hiring one yourself.

*tactfully yet visibly taking the chopsticks from my take-out and setting them in the counter with a knowing nod to the cashier*

HolePisser1982
Nov 3, 2002

Sub-Actuality posted:

Whilst playing through my review copy, I found myself distracted by a question that threatened to consume my conscience like Alf consuming the Tanners' pet cat: What exactly is Milon's Secret Castle trying to say? It's been nearly two years since the Space Shuttle Challenger disaster, and try as I might, I could find no direct mention or even oblique reference to what has to be the most devastating and defining tragedy of our generation. Are we to assume that Hudson Soft wants us to forget about the socio-political impact of last year's events? Or, more nauseating still, do they simply have nothing to say about it?

It's 1987 — we can do better. We must do better.

lmao

symbolic
Nov 2, 2014

Sub-Actuality posted:

Whilst playing through my review copy, I found myself distracted by a question that threatened to consume my conscience like Alf consuming the Tanners' pet cat: What exactly is Milon's Secret Castle trying to say? It's been nearly two years since the Space Shuttle Challenger disaster, and try as I might, I could find no direct mention or even oblique reference to what has to be the most devastating and defining tragedy of our generation. Are we to assume that Hudson Soft wants us to forget about the socio-political impact of last year's events? Or, more nauseating still, do they simply have nothing to say about it?

It's 1987 — we can do better. We must do better.

lmao

Fungah!
Apr 30, 2011

I got the tude now posted:

*tactfully yet visibly taking the chopsticks from my take-out and setting them in the counter with a knowing nod to the cashier*

That Little Demon
Dec 3, 2020

Sub-Actuality posted:

Whilst playing through my review copy, I found myself distracted by a question that threatened to consume my conscience like Alf consuming the Tanners' pet cat: What exactly is Milon's Secret Castle trying to say? It's been nearly two years since the Space Shuttle Challenger disaster, and try as I might, I could find no direct mention or even oblique reference to what has to be the most devastating and defining tragedy of our generation. Are we to assume that Hudson Soft wants us to forget about the socio-political impact of last year's events? Or, more nauseating still, do they simply have nothing to say about it?

It's 1987 — we can do better. We must do better.

symbolic
Nov 2, 2014

BRING IT IN, GUYS!! *every Asian-American director, writer, composer, artist etc. come in with everything for a HUGE game development*

Pablo Nergigante
Apr 16, 2002

Sub-Actuality posted:

Whilst playing through my review copy, I found myself distracted by a question that threatened to consume my conscience like Alf consuming the Tanners' pet cat: What exactly is Milon's Secret Castle trying to say? It's been nearly two years since the Space Shuttle Challenger disaster, and try as I might, I could find no direct mention or even oblique reference to what has to be the most devastating and defining tragedy of our generation. Are we to assume that Hudson Soft wants us to forget about the socio-political impact of last year's events? Or, more nauseating still, do they simply have nothing to say about it?

It's 1987 — we can do better. We must do better.


symbolic posted:

BRING IT IN, GUYS!! *every Asian-American director, writer, composer, artist etc. come in with everything for a HUGE game development*

Lol

EmmyOk
Aug 11, 2013

I asked the lead developer of Sifu about the colonisation of Asian spaces over a dinner recently. He asked me if I liked Sifu and when I responded yes he proceeded to open his still full mouth and quite racistly say “see food”

Punished Chuck
Dec 27, 2010

EmmyOk posted:

I asked the lead developer of Sifu about the colonisation of Asian spaces over a dinner recently. He asked me if I liked Sifu and when I responded yes he proceeded to open his still full mouth and quite racistly say “see food”

lmfao

Fungah!
Apr 30, 2011

EmmyOk posted:

I asked the lead developer of Sifu about the colonisation of Asian spaces over a dinner recently. He asked me if I liked Sifu and when I responded yes he proceeded to open his still full mouth and quite racistly say “see food”

lmfao

HolePisser1982
Nov 3, 2002

EmmyOk posted:

I asked the lead developer of Sifu about the colonisation of Asian spaces over a dinner recently. He asked me if I liked Sifu and when I responded yes he proceeded to open his still full mouth and quite racistly say “see food”

lol

Pablo Nergigante
Apr 16, 2002

EmmyOk posted:

I asked the lead developer of Sifu about the colonisation of Asian spaces over a dinner recently. He asked me if I liked Sifu and when I responded yes he proceeded to open his still full mouth and quite racistly say “see food”

That Little Demon
Dec 3, 2020
Here let me help the trolling brainlets of the imp zone understand something

Game about asians and kung fu made by white people: BAD


Game made by chinese people about white people and (???) GOOD

symbolic
Nov 2, 2014

EmmyOk posted:

I asked the lead developer of Sifu about the colonisation of Asian spaces over a dinner recently. He asked me if I liked Sifu and when I responded yes he proceeded to open his still full mouth and quite racistly say “see food”

Wormskull
Aug 23, 2009

HolePisser1982 posted:

We don't want to fixate too much on these individuals because there's no way to say what level of representation is "enough" when the concerns go far beyond the team's makeup, but it is inaccurate to say that no Chinese people worked on the project.

These facts don't erase the concerns that people have surrounding the game's content or marketing, the valuable conversation to be had about authenticity and, as one reviewer put it, "cultural tourism," and most importantly, the safety of our peers in the industry who are facing harassment for their valid critiques.

really awesome reviews happening over at resetera

Total losers lmfao.

EmmyOk
Aug 11, 2013

That Little Demon posted:

Here let me help the trolling brainlets of the imp zone understand something

Game about asians and kung fu made by white people: BAD


Game made by chinese people about white people and (???) GOOD



Lol but also yes 100%

I got the tude now
Jul 22, 2007

EmmyOk posted:

I asked the lead developer of Sifu about the colonisation of Asian spaces over a dinner recently. He asked me if I liked Sifu and when I responded yes he proceeded to open his still full mouth and quite racistly say “see food”

lmfao

HolePisser1982
Nov 3, 2002

Wormskull posted:

Total losers lmfao.

lmao

Fucker
Jan 4, 2013

HolePisser1982 posted:

We don't want to fixate too much on these individuals because there's no way to say what level of representation is "enough" when the concerns go far beyond the team's makeup, but it is inaccurate to say that no Chinese people worked on the project.

These facts don't erase the concerns that people have surrounding the game's content or marketing, the valuable conversation to be had about authenticity and, as one reviewer put it, "cultural tourism," and most importantly, the safety of our peers in the industry who are facing harassment for their valid critiques.

really awesome reviews happening over at resetera

lol jfc

Fucker
Jan 4, 2013

HolePisser1982 posted:

The massive flavor-bomb of git gud toxicity is on full display here, joined by lingering notes of chud, male tears, buttsalt, and goalposts for days.

Pablo Nergigante posted:

PHIL: They hired a Chinese guy named I Ching? That's the most racist thing I ever heard

ol yeller posted:

playing Yakuza with a look of twisted disgust on my face "YES karaoke is fun YES mahjong is great YES i like pachinko. but theres no gruesome depictions of massive devastation from nuclear war.,

Pablo Nergigante
Apr 16, 2002

Local game critic found ratioed to death

Wormskull
Aug 23, 2009

Lumpy the Cook
Feb 4, 2011

Drippy-goo-yay, mother-gunker!

Bicyclops posted:

divorced_gamer_dad, reading the comments on his stream: They're... playing? they're playing without map markers! they're playing without loot! they're playing without easy mode and romanceible groot!

Lmao

I got the tude now
Jul 22, 2007
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3JUrhh9VC8&t=71s

HolePisser1982
Nov 3, 2002

lmao

Fungah!
Apr 30, 2011


lmfao

Sub-Actuality
Apr 17, 2007


lmao

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sourdough
Apr 30, 2012

lol

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