|
Charlz Guybon posted:Wow. Poor Oryx 🤣 Counting that seems like a good way to double-triple count stuff that was photographed before it was recovered back to a depot. And it just seems tedious, so that would be a good excuse to not count them.
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2022 17:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 15:18 |
|
|
mlmp08 posted:Counting that seems like a good way to double-triple count stuff that was photographed before it was recovered back to a depot. And it just seems tedious, so that would be a good excuse to not count them. Counting would be the least tedious part of that. Getting vehicle IDs and cross-referencing vs known losses, on the other hand… 
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2022 17:15
|
|
|
mlmp08 posted:Counting that seems like a good way to double-triple count stuff that was photographed before it was recovered back to a depot. And it just seems tedious, so that would be a good excuse to not count them. Yeah, he already said that they don't count the vehicles in boneyards/repair yards to prevent double counting.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2022 18:10
|
|
|
https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/300749447/russian-mercenaries-plan-to-send-bloodied-sledgehammer-to-euquote:Russia’s Wagner Group mercenaries plan to send a “bloodied” sledgehammer in a violin case to the European Parliament after members started proceedings to label them as terrorists. loving christ.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2022 08:27
|
|
|
Comrade Blyatlov posted:https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/300749447/russian-mercenaries-plan-to-send-bloodied-sledgehammer-to-eu At least they are being cooperative and sending evidence.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2022 08:33
|
|
|
"Vasily, they are calling us terrorists! What should we do?" "Send bloody sledgehammer in violin case. Remind them we are corrupt, violent criminals - not terrorists." "Brilliant, Vasily!"
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2022 08:34
|
|
|
I can see a few ways that that move might backfire
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2022 08:54
|
|
|
Whose blood?
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2022 08:59
|
|
|
Is it similar to the US classification, which basically gives the military and the CIA carte blanche to hunt them down?
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2022 10:59
|
|
|
psydude posted:Is it similar to the US classification, which basically gives the military and the CIA carte blanche to hunt them down? Yes except replace 'hunt them down' with 'send strongly worded letters that they will only be eligible for grant funding if they make a statement saying they are considering changing their behaviour'.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2022 11:59
|
|
|
psydude posted:Is it similar to the US classification, which basically gives the military and the CIA carte blanche to hunt them down? No, since EU is not the current hegemon it at least pretends to care about international law and human rights.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2022 13:09
|
|
|
Herman Merman posted:No, since EU is not the current hegemon it at least pretends to care about international law and human rights. *when it's convenient for them.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2022 13:49
|
|
|
In that case, mercenaries are already illegal under international law, so unless they're planning on really cracking down on financing of Wagner group via their own domestic law enforcement (the last thing any EU country has interest in doing is holding its own companies accountable) it seems like a performative step.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2022 13:55
|
|
|
Russians spend a lit of money in europe and travel there pretty regularly. I would expect that this could have some long term consequences there
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2022 17:21
|
|
|
psydude posted:In that case, mercenaries are already illegal under international law, so unless they're planning on really cracking down on financing of Wagner group via their own domestic law enforcement (the last thing any EU country has interest in doing is holding its own companies accountable) it seems like a performative step. wagner's soldiers who are russian citizens aren't legally mercenaries
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2022 18:35
|
|
|
ChubbyChecker posted:wagner's soldiers who are russian citizens aren't legally mercenaries Is Wagner legally an arm of the Russian Federation or is everyone still maintaining the fiction that they are independent?
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2022 19:44
|
|
|
You guys are over complicating this Wagner is Russian Blackwater.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2022 19:57
|
|
|
Blackwater didn't recruit from prisons. Though the Ukraine war has been an awful lot like an Olympics for criminals.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2022 20:19
|
|
|
ChubbyChecker posted:wagner's soldiers who are russian citizens aren't legally mercenaries In the ukraine war that tracks, but all over africa though? Geneva Convention posted:Art 47. Mercenaries I guess it depends on whether russia is officially a party to whatever civil war wagner gets hired into.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2022 20:27
|
|
|
A.o.D. posted:Is Wagner legally an arm of the Russian Federation or is everyone still maintaining the fiction that they are independent? That fiction is pretty much over, at least internally. Wagner operates as essentially another arm of Russian MoD and despite existing in ostensibly a legal grey area, it now operates openly and has a big showy headquarters. Physically back in Russia they base and train out of installations actually connected to regular Russian military bases. A few years ago they were much more credibly distant from Russian MoD but at this point the separation is mostly aesthetic. There's a reason why Wagner is operating T90Ms and it's because they're an arm of the Russian military. Worth noting, too, that the russian prisoner fight-for-freedom deal is run under Putin's specific authority as the legal mechanism permitting it is a presidential pardon from Putin. bulletsponge13 posted:You guys are over complicating this Wagner is Russian Blackwater. That was pretty much the case a year or two ago, at this point it's more like if blackwater was formally rolled into DoD and Prince was a head of his own branch Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Nov 25, 2022 |
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2022 20:39
|
|
|
CRUSTY MINGE posted:Blackwater didn't recruit from prisons. They would have if allowed by the administration in charge. They deployed actual felons, as did numerous other PMCs. They pulled strings to get discharges changed, and get charges dropped. They deployed actual war criminals, and did the same kinda poo poo Wagner does, just at a thankfully lesser scale. The comparison is pretty apt.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2022 20:42
|
|
|
bulletsponge13 posted:They would have if allowed by the administration in charge. wagner also started off at about the point that blackwater (under that name) ended
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2022 20:46
|
|
|
Herstory Begins Now posted:That fiction is pretty much over, at least internally. Wagner operates as essentially another arm of Russian MoD and despite existing in ostensibly a legal grey area, it now operates openly and has a big showy headquarters. Physically back in Russia they base and train out of installations actually connected to regular Russian military bases. I do not believe that a single pardon will be issued. edit: Let me walk that back. I believe that a few token pardons will be issued, but I believe that the expectation is for those fighting under the promise of pardons to die in combat, and most of whomever survives will be denied pardons on some trumped up technicality. The Russian military won't even pay the volunteers the bonuses they were promised, I don't expect them to come through for those even lower in social status.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2022 21:50
|
|
|
A.o.D. posted:I do not believe that a single pardon will be issued. it's not even so much about the pardons so much as that they're being released from prison due to apparently the legal intervention from Putin's office, which is another piece of evidence for their significant integration into the Russian government. Long term prospects for anyone released to go join a Wagner convict brigade in Ukraine are beyond bleak, to put it lightly and yeah I share the skepticism about what any promises of pardons are worth, particularly as the entire scheme is apparently considered, at best, legally dubious. By the way Meduza has done a ton of good reporting on Wagner and I recommend reading everything that they've put out on the subject. Meduza has good defense sources and was reporting on the pmc buildup for the war in Ukraine before the February invasion all the way back in mid-late 2021. Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Nov 25, 2022 |
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2022 22:21
|
|
|
At least some of the pardoned Wagner guys have surrendered at the first opportunity, gaming the system.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2022 22:41
|
|
|
bulletsponge13 posted:At least some of the pardoned Wagner guys have surrendered at the first opportunity, gaming the system. I applaud their foresight and initiative.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2022 22:49
|
|
|
Herstory Begins Now posted:it's not even so much about the pardons so much as that they're being released from prison due to apparently the legal intervention from Putin's office, which is another piece of evidence for their significant integration into the Russian government. ISW had a blub a few days ago that Russia's prison population had declined by a noticeable amount this year (forgetting if it was 3% or 9%). Grip it and rip it posted:Russians spend a lit of money in europe and travel there pretty regularly. I would expect that this could have some long term consequences there Switzerland is part of the Schengen area, but isn't part of the EU. It has been, and will continue to be, a backdoor for Russians to bypass whatever barriers to entry the EU wants to put into place. psydude fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Nov 25, 2022 |
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2022 22:50
|
|
|
If Blackwater had been doing frontal assaults against an entrenched peer enemy with artillery and poo poo they absolutely would have started recruiting from prisons p quickly.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2022 23:01
|
|
|
A.o.D. posted:I applaud their foresight and initiative. I believe the blood on the hammer belongs to one of them. As far as I can make out he surrendered immediately and denounced Russia. Somehow he ended up back in Russia, speculation is Ukraine may sent him back in a prisoner exchange. Then Wagner taped his head to a wall and beat him to death with the hammer on video. And sent the video to his family. Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Nov 25, 2022 |
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2022 23:33
|
|
|
aphid_licker posted:If Blackwater had been doing frontal assaults against an entrenched peer enemy with artillery and poo poo they absolutely would have started recruiting from prisons p quickly. During the Surge, the PMCs weren't far off. Neither was the Army.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2022 00:02
|
|
|
aphid_licker posted:If Blackwater had been doing frontal assaults against an entrenched peer enemy with artillery and poo poo they absolutely would have started recruiting from prisons p quickly. With what government authority? That's the difference between Wagner and Blackwater. Wagner has the official government power to get prisoners sprung to be recruited.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2022 00:22
|
|
|
A.o.D. posted:Is Wagner legally an arm of the Russian Federation or is everyone still maintaining the fiction that they are independent? Don't over think an oligarchy or whatever Russia is. Wagner is a useful tool for Putin so they just twist a narrative a bit.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2022 00:44
|
|
|
lightpole posted:Don't over think an oligarchy or whatever Russia is. Wagner is a useful tool for Putin so they just twist a narrative a bit. It's an autocracy with oligarchical characteristics. Which makes me think I'm describing a feudal state with fewer granted titles.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2022 00:46
|
|
|
A.o.D. posted:Which makes me think I'm describing a feudal state with fewer granted titles. I remember reading an interview a while back where the interviewee said it was easier to think of Putin's Russia as a feudal state than any modern autocratic construct.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2022 00:59
|
|
|
psydude posted:I remember reading an interview a while back where the interviewee said it was easier to think of Putin's Russia as a feudal state than any modern autocratic construct. That makes more sense. The technicalities that apply elsewhere are irrelevant since he can just make up post hoc justifications for anything. There is no ground truth except that which Putin allows there to be.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2022 01:13
|
|
|
I remember a human rights lawyer in a doc about PMCs relaying a stale industry joke: "If a person is convicted for being a mercenary under the Geneva definition, they should be executed, and their lawyer should be executed along with them." Allegedly the "is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain" part is neigh unprovable because mercenaries can claim "no, really, I have a deep ideological alignment to the Nestle Corporation ethos of enslaving children", and it's hard to prove otherwise.
DearSirXNORMadam fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Nov 26, 2022 |
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2022 07:08
|
|
|
Mirconium posted:I remember a human rights lawyer in a doc about PMCs relaying a stale industry joke: "If a person is convicted for being a mercenary under the Geneva definition, they should be executed, and their lawyer should be executed along with them." Allegedly the "is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain" part is neigh unprovable because mercenaries can claim "no, really, I have a deep ideological alignment to the Nestle Corporation ethos of enslaving children", and it's hard to prove otherwise. yeah
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2022 10:56
|
|
|
So the Russians have removed nuclear warheads from missiles and then shot the missiles at Ukraine as just kinetic/fuel weapons. How long before they accidentally shoot a missile with an unarmed nuclear warhead into Ukraine ? A year ago we'd say 'fantasy never happen'. Now I'd say a non-zero chance by Christmas.. Just need the right combination of drunk/corrupt/inept/tired.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2022 12:23
|
|
|
Grip it and rip it posted:Russians spend a lit of money in europe and travel there pretty regularly. I would expect that this could have some long term consequences there Anedoctal/subjective experience: places like San Marino and seaside Italy(which live and breathe from Russian tourism) have experienced the issue but reallocated their quotas to upper middle class Eastern European tourists from Poland or Bulgaria to mitigate.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2022 15:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 15:18 |
|
|
Good loving riddance. Russian tourists are the WORST. English tourists are not even in the same league.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2022 22:13
|
|
