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PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!

Blistex posted:

India's defense procurement is the only contender in the world that are clown-shoes enough to make Canada's look like sensible loafers.

I know it's a bit outside the topic of the thread, but is it just like, generic corruption and incompetence or are there any sort of big fuckup stories related to it to share?

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Murgos
Oct 21, 2010

Blistex posted:

India's defense procurement is the only contender in the world that are clown-shoes enough to make Canada's look like sensible loafers.

And yet the only Russian projects that are near modern and make any real progress are the joint Russia/India efforts.

Until India drops them to finish it on their own.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

Cythereal posted:

My understanding is that India's domestic military industries are in constant crisis due to internal corruption and political fuckery so they keep looking to buy foreign in the hopes of actually ending up with any weapons.

I did say strategic aim.

Pretty much every policy issue India has is an unfortunate mix of 'they should be a world superpower but oh dear corruption'. They need a big army because they have a continental sized border dispute with everyone to their north. That army has to be cheaply equipped for mass which means that a lot of Western stuff isn't really viable. Russia doesn't deliver, and you can't buy from China because that's one of the countries you might be fighting one day. They're going to continue to rely on Russia for sustainment at the moment but they know they need to move off that reliance asap.

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.

Alchenar posted:

I did say strategic aim.

Pretty much every policy issue India has is an unfortunate mix of 'they should be a world superpower but oh dear corruption'. They need a big army because they have a continental sized border dispute with everyone to their north. That army has to be cheaply equipped for mass which means that a lot of Western stuff isn't really viable. Russia doesn't deliver, and you can't buy from China because that's one of the countries you might be fighting one day. They're going to continue to rely on Russia for sustainment at the moment but they know they need to move off that reliance asap.

World war III fought with sticks and stones

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

Alchenar posted:

I did say strategic aim.

Pretty much every policy issue India has is an unfortunate mix of 'they should be a world superpower but oh dear corruption'. They need a big army because they have a continental sized border dispute with everyone to their north. That army has to be cheaply equipped for mass which means that a lot of Western stuff isn't really viable. Russia doesn't deliver, and you can't buy from China because that's one of the countries you might be fighting one day. They're going to continue to rely on Russia for sustainment at the moment but they know they need to move off that reliance asap.

They're basically kind of almost already fighting China right now, and the "Friendship without limits" thing has to be making India really nervous about their military procurement. If Russia's junior relationship with China is fully realized, India will end up cut off from fuel and armaments if China decides to go hot in the Himalayas or at the Siliguri (sp?) Corridor.

Just spelling that out in a bit greater detail.

Edit: I suppose it's not outside the realm of possibility that India could decide to go hot. Ethnonationalists tend to make poor decisions.

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!
https://x.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1796991124487242237

quote:

Holly poo poo… Anti drone cages on Russian motorcycles. Zaporizhzhia front, Robotyne direction.

Can't really screenshot the photos, but lmao, you really gotta click through and see those goofy things.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006
Even if the cage did its job perfectly, the people in the motorcycles would still get fragged, right?

Murgos
Oct 21, 2010

PurpleXVI posted:

https://x.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1796991124487242237

Can't really screenshot the photos, but lmao, you really gotta click through and see those goofy things.

It’s probably not knowable but I wonder how many Russians have been killed by their cope cage?

Some real, “the soviets used a pencil” vibe. Yeah, sure, it’s a simple answer but not a safe or even good answer.

not caring here
Feb 22, 2012

blazemastah 2 dry 4 u

A.o.D. posted:

Even if the cage did its job perfectly, the people in the motorcycles would still get fragged, right?

Without a doubt.

Lord Awkward
Feb 16, 2012

Murgos posted:

It’s probably not knowable but I wonder how many Russians have been killed by their cope cage?

Some real, “the soviets used a pencil” vibe. Yeah, sure, it’s a simple answer but not a safe or even good answer.

The first version had a door so that the cage completely enclosed the bike, providing increased protection against drones.
Unfortunately, during testing the door was left open overnight and a polecat made its way into the sidecar, undiscovered until after the door was shut and the bike started.
Before anyone could open the cage, the driver crashed and was torn to shreds by the panicked mustelid.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006
Weasels ripped his flesh?!?

Lord Awkward
Feb 16, 2012

A.o.D. posted:

Weasels ripped his flesh?!?

рзззззз!

Aces High
Mar 26, 2010

Nah! A little chocolate will do




PurpleXVI posted:

I know it's a bit outside the topic of the thread, but is it just like, generic corruption and incompetence or are there any sort of big fuckup stories related to it to share?

Oh boy, there's the time we bought leaky submarines from the UK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upholder/Victoria-class_submarine#Sale_to_Canada

We decided that all new naval ships will be built within Canada, and that means that Canadian oligarch Irving gets to build them. The contracts for construction was commenced almost a decade ago (I know because I had a relative that took a cushy contract to work in Halifax, but he ended up leaving when it came up for renewal because he was tired of his time being wasted) and even now the FIRST ship isn't supposed to be finished construction until the 2030s!

Then there's replacing the Sea King helicopter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Sea_King_replacement. That article is just the tip of the iceberg, it took over 30 years to replace those things, and even then the replacements still had issues.


When it comes to Canada and procurement, it's not just clown shoes, it's stepping on rakes too

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!

Aces High posted:

Oh boy, there's the time we bought leaky submarines from the UK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upholder/Victoria-class_submarine#Sale_to_Canada

We decided that all new naval ships will be built within Canada, and that means that Canadian oligarch Irving gets to build them. The contracts for construction was commenced almost a decade ago (I know because I had a relative that took a cushy contract to work in Halifax, but he ended up leaving when it came up for renewal because he was tired of his time being wasted) and even now the FIRST ship isn't supposed to be finished construction until the 2030s!

Then there's replacing the Sea King helicopter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Sea_King_replacement. That article is just the tip of the iceberg, it took over 30 years to replace those things, and even then the replacements still had issues.


When it comes to Canada and procurement, it's not just clown shoes, it's stepping on rakes too

Oh I meant the Indian side of things, but this is interesting, too! Thanks for sharing!

Tiny Timbs
Sep 6, 2008

Ronwayne posted:

World war III fought with sticks and stones

They always cut off the part of the quote where Einstein explains this is because many of the belligerents will have suffered from complex supply chain issues for extremely mundane reasons.

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


Blistex posted:

India's defense procurement is the only contender in the world that are clown-shoes enough to make Canada's look like sensible loafers.
Ah but have you met the Bundeswehr?

PurpleXVI posted:

I know it's a bit outside the topic of the thread, but is it just like, generic corruption and incompetence or are there any sort of big fuckup stories related to it to share?
It's partly corruption, but a big part is that India is a huge bureaucratic mess that is trying to leapfrog technologically without really having done the groundwork to do so. India really, really likes to manufacture things domestically, but still doesn't have the capability/quality to do that for alot of high-end military equipment. They spec that a jet engine for their fancy new fighter must be made domestically, so they design a fighter around this theoretical engine, the engine never quite works right after hundreds of millions are spent on development (and 'the engine doesn't work good' obviously slows down every part of developing a fighter') and eventually they just buy GE engines. Similar story with the radar and fly by wire systems (they even developed an entirely new CAD system!), except they eventually figured those out I think. So a proposal to develop a new fighter jet is actually a proposal to design and manufacture domestically an entirely new engine, radar, and control system, all on top of the normal difficulties with with developing a new aircraft that even the most advanced manufacturing economies in the world struggle with.

e: Perun touched on this in either a video he did about the Indian military or on military procurement or possibly both.

Computer viking
May 30, 2011
Now with less breakage.

Aces High posted:

Then there's replacing the Sea King helicopter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Sea_King_replacement. That article is just the tip of the iceberg, it took over 30 years to replace those things, and even then the replacements still had issues.

Oh, that sounds vaguely familiar. Norway ordered new helicopters in 2001, to equip our then-new frigates and to replace the old Westland Lynx ones the coastguard uses. We landed on the NH90, built by AugustaWestland Leonardo NHIndustries.

Let me just quote a 2022 press release from the government.


quote:

– Regrettably we have reached the conclusion that no matter how many hours our technicians work, and how many parts we order, it will never make the NH90 capable of to meeting the requirements of the Norwegian Armed Forces. Based on a joint recommendation by the Armed Forces and associated departments and agencies, the Norwegian Government has therefore decided to end the introduction of the NH90 and has authorized the Norwegian Defence Material Agency to terminate the contract, said Norwegian Minister of Defence, Mr. Bjørn Arild Gram.


– We have made repeated attempts at resolving the problems related to the NH90 in cooperation with NHI, but more than 20 years after the contract was signed, we still don’t have helicopters capable of performing the missions for which they were bought, and without NHI being able to present us with any realistic solutions, said Gro Jære, Director General of the Norwegian Defence Materiel Agency.

Norway’s acquisition of the NH90 began in 2001, with 14 helicopters for Coast Guard and Anti-Submarine Warfare duties originally slated for delivery by the end of 2008. As of today, only eight have been delivered in a fully operational configuration. The fleet is currently required to provide 3.900 flight hours annually but in recent years it has averaged only about 700 hours.

The current status is that we have handed back the helicopters. The deadline for negotiating an economical agreement passed about two weeks ago, so Norway is right now suing NHIndustries for the roughly $500 million we've paid them.

Computer viking fucked around with this message at 09:50 on Jun 7, 2024

Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011

Our replacement of the Halifax-class frigates and Iroquois-class destroyers (which are all scrap now) with a derivative of the British Type 26s is also shaping up to be a wonderful boondoggle. The deal was signed five years ago for Lockmart to iterate on the Type 26 design to meet the RCN's requirements, despite the RCN's requirements being... pretty drat close to the original spec. Nothing has been announced for years now. The original plan is to have these things entering service before the end of the 2020s, because the destroyers they're replacing would have been closing in on being sixty years old at that point.

We literally have no VLS capability until those new ships come into existence, and I would put money down that the Irving oligarchy is going to mean they won't be in service until 2035.

Antigravitas
Dec 8, 2019

Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:
According to the German Wikipedia article Canadian Sea King pilots have a song that is sung to the tune of Seasons of the Sun:

quote:

„Goodbye papa, please pray for me
My helicopter’s crashing in the sea.
Refrain:
We had joy, we had fun, we had Sea Kings in the sun
But the engines are on fire and the Sea Kings must retire“

Powerful stuff.

boofhead
Feb 18, 2021

Antigravitas posted:

According to the German Wikipedia article Canadian Sea King pilots have a song that is sung to the tune of Seasons of the Sun:

Powerful stuff.

Oh? Vat are you Sea-N King about?

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

Antigravitas posted:

According to the German Wikipedia article Canadian Sea King pilots have a song that is sung to the tune of Seasons of the Sun:

Powerful stuff.

I read that as “Shadow on the Sun” & thought of a different helicopter experience:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBWnGUimRBw

Fearless
Sep 3, 2003

DRINK MORE MOXIE


Antigravitas posted:

According to the German Wikipedia article Canadian Sea King pilots have a song that is sung to the tune of Seasons of the Sun:

Powerful stuff.

The wardroom in 12 Wing, in Shearwater, had beer mugs boldly emblazoned with "Flying yesterday's helicopters, tomorrow" and included a checklist of all the decades the Sea King was operational.

That Works
Jul 22, 2006

Every revolution evaporates and leaves behind only the slime of a new bureaucracy


Fearless posted:

The wardrobe in 12 Wing, in Shearwater, had beer mugs boldly emblazoned with "Flying yesterday's helicopters, tomorrow" and included a checklist of all the decades the Sea King was operational.

That's awesome lol

Nick Soapdish
Apr 27, 2008


https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn00e422yr2o

Okay Comrade Putin, you're totally correct and not at all delusional, sir

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

Nick Soapdish posted:

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn00e422yr2o

Okay Comrade Putin, you're totally correct and not at all delusional, sir

"It's always a bluff until it is not" is the opposite of what you want your opponents to think.

The Door Frame
Dec 5, 2011

I don't know man everytime I go to the gym here there are like two huge dudes with raging high and tights snorting Nitro-tech off of each other's rock hard abs.

quote:

Earlier this week, at a meeting with international news agency chiefs in St Petersburg, President Putin suggested that Russia might supply advanced conventional long-range weapons to others to strike Western targets.

This was his response to Nato allies allowing Ukraine to strike Russian territory with Western-supplied weapons.

He repeated the idea again today.
“We are not supplying those weapons yet, but we reserve the right to do so to those states or legal entities which are under certain pressure, including military pressure, from the countries that supply weapons to Ukraine and encourage their use on Russian territory.”

There were no details. No names.

So, to which parts of the world might Russia deploy its missiles?
“Wherever we think it is necessary, we’re definitely going to put them. As President Putin made clear, we’ll investigate this question,” Vladimir Solovyov, one of Russian state TV’s most prominent hosts, tells me.

I'm totally sure that Russia has enough equipment to send to a country, that they also have enough diplomatic leverage over, that definitely wants to initiate a first strike against the US or Europe

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

Nick Soapdish posted:

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn00e422yr2o

Okay Comrade Putin, you're totally correct and not at all delusional, sir

Its amazing how a defenceless Europe appears to be able to handle giving tons of equipment and training that has stalled Putin's 3 day special operation for....what, two years now?

The Door Frame posted:

I'm totally sure that Russia has enough equipment to send to a country, that they also have enough diplomatic leverage over, that definitely wants to initiate a first strike against the US or Europe

Again, Brock Samson has an answer for all of us to Putin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kmFQmzBwtU

canyoneer
Sep 13, 2005


I only have canyoneyes for you
At least some of the domestic Indian arms projects get cool Sanskrit names

poor waif
Apr 8, 2007
Kaboom

CommieGIR posted:

Its amazing how a defenceless Europe appears to be able to handle giving tons of equipment and training that has stalled Putin's 3 day special operation for....what, two years now?

The quote is:

quote:

“Europe does not have a developed [early warning system],” he added. “In this sense they are more or less defenceless.”

It's almost as if an early warning system is pointless considering Europe directly borders Russia, and nuclear submarines can strike back regardless of Russia's early warning systems. It's just more cope.

RBA-Wintrow
Nov 4, 2009


Clapping Larry

PurpleXVI posted:

How many of them will sink or get attacked by bears on the way.

They may be attacked near Denmark by *checks notes* Japanese torpedo boats?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzGqp3R4Mx4&t=160s

RandomPauI
Nov 24, 2006


Grimey Drawer
Drachonofel's video on the 2nd Pacific Squadrons voyage is also worth a watch

https://youtu.be/9Mdi_Fh9_Ag?si=JWNDqxZLfkLkSV6c

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006

Enjoy every sandwich.

Smellrose

RBA-Wintrow posted:

They may be attacked near Denmark by *checks notes* Japanese torpedo boats?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzGqp3R4Mx4&t=160s

The Russians being trigger happy in the North Sea is actually one of the least weird things that happened during that voyage. Britain had a defensive alliance with Japan and were the major source of warships for powers who didn't have a native shipbuilding industry. It made a strange sort of sense for stressed Russian gunners to mistake random fishing boats for a Japanese ambush. It was still a moronic turn of events but there's a recognizable chain of logic to it.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

The Russians being trigger happy in the North Sea is actually one of the least weird things that happened during that voyage. Britain had a defensive alliance with Japan and were the major source of warships for powers who didn't have a native shipbuilding industry. It made a strange sort of sense for stressed Russian gunners to mistake random fishing boats for a Japanese ambush. It was still a moronic turn of events but there's a recognizable chain of logic to it.

Don't make me throw these binoculars at you.

Just Another Lurker
May 1, 2009

RandomPauI posted:

Drachonofel's video on the 2nd Pacific Squadrons voyage is also worth a watch

https://youtu.be/9Mdi_Fh9_Ag?si=JWNDqxZLfkLkSV6c

Don't forget the sequel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXpj6nK5ylo Drachinifel is the man. :thumbsup:

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

poor waif posted:

The quote is:

It's almost as if an early warning system is pointless considering Europe directly borders Russia, and nuclear submarines can strike back regardless of Russia's early warning systems. It's just more cope.

ITs still dumb because the US does provide a lot of Early Warning coverage for Europe via both planes and systems.

Besides its not like Russia's radars are really holding their own right now...

Just Another Lurker posted:

Don't forget the sequel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXpj6nK5ylo Drachinifel is the man. :thumbsup:

Yup, Drachinifel is my favorite Navy video guy.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

Ronwayne posted:

World war III fought with sticks and stones

BRICS refers to the weapons they use to fight each other

https://x.com/clashreport/status/1799370152410223012

B33rChiller
Aug 18, 2011




RandomPauI posted:

Drachonofel's video on the 2nd Pacific Squadrons voyage is also worth a watch

https://youtu.be/9Mdi_Fh9_Ag?si=JWNDqxZLfkLkSV6c
Lions led by Donkeys too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY0ymaD6ZtQ

Makes me wonder if they're able to actually reach the Caribbean. Watch Barbados take em out on the way by.

B33rChiller fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Jun 8, 2024

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!
https://x.com/NOELreports/status/1799708851048247707

quote:

Russian channel Fighterbomber confirms damage to the Su-57 due to shrapnel.

“It is determined if it can be restored,” he adds

Content: Untranslated post from Fighterbomber, in case anyone wants to see the original text.

https://x.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1799702329496863174

quote:

Russia’s newest Sukhoi Su-57 multirole fighter jet reportedly hit in a Ukrainian attack - an airfield almost 600 km away from the Ukrainian border.

Another item in the collection

Content: Images of the attack, doesn't look very spectacular but confirms a hit.

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

so…he’s not going to say if it can be restored, just that they’ve figured it out? takes some of the fun out of it

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Jimmy Smuts
Aug 8, 2000

Just lol if the SU-57's first death really does end up being from being parked and getting whacked by a drone.

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