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Ok well the car hasn't arrived yet, but the title arrived in the mail today, so that's a start  The car is a 1955 Citroen CV11 aka "Traction Avant". It's main claim to fame is that it was the most popular car produced in France ~1934-1957 (later introduced, in 1949 was the smaller 2CV, aka "Umbrella on Wheels" you might be familiar with). It's worth noting that the car was designed in 1933, where cars of that era were body on frame, with solid front and rear axles, front engine, rear wheel drive. The Traction Avant (TA) was:
  (example photos, not my car) None of these are totally unique mechanical features, DKW of Auto Union (later Audi) produced some front wheel drive models for a number of years for example, but to have all these features in one car, then build 760,000 of them, makes this not a completely terrible car to drive today. This car sold so well that in addition to the Paris factory, a factory in Belgium (somewhere?) as well as a large number of right hand drive models built in Slough, England. Most of the english cars have a) lucas electronics and b) leaky sunroofs so fewer have survived. Another quirk of the car is that since it was designed in ~1933, and was in continious production (they only made one for MY1942, thanks WWII) for twenty years, you can buy a 1957 car with a moderately modern engine, but with 1930s styling. Also because they made so drat many of them, and they're pretty reliable (for a car of that period) they're reasonably cheap as far as classic/antique cars go, about $12-30k for a road worthy 4 cylinder "Ligere" (Light) model and 28-40k for a 2.9 liter inline 6 "normale" (large) model. Also most of the parts were borrowed to build the 2CV (interior parts and switches, electics), the DS (engine, rear suspension, transmission), the ID (engine, transmission) and the H Van (literally just used the TA drive train, flipped around), which sold in huge numbers; the 2CV and H Van being produced into the early 90s and late 70s, respectively. You can order any part for these cars out of a catalog, or online. ~The Story~ This car has a history. All cars come with stories, this one actually had a book written about it. It was reviewed in an Anthropology journal: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/322372898_Crossing_the_Loange_Congo_Pax_Service_and_the_Journey_Home_-_A_Book_Review. There's a free copy of the book online somewhere but I can't find it right now. The physical book is ~250 pages with ~100+ color photos and hundreds of his letters written home, kept by his mom. Anyways, the story of the car starts with two men who have been drafted, for what I belive was the Korean War(? ended 1953). However, they were mennonites, sort of like the Amish, they ride around on horse and buggies, big beards, no electricity etc, and concientious objectors. So after talking with the local Mennonite leaders and draft board in Oregon, they all decide that they should end up at a Mennonite mission in the Belgian Congo (dead-center Africa) at a mission there doing work, furniture building, repair, other work for local schools, setting up a small time furniture factory etc. This ends up being a very low cost area to live, and they save their pennies. At the end of their work, rather than fly home immediately, they buy a local Citroen Traction Avant in the Congo and drive it to London. The Belgian Congo being run by the Belgians, they had a lot of French cars rolling around down there, presumably. Very few if any cars were manufactured locally. So they buy the car in the Congo, then drive it overland to Tanzania (immediate east-bordering country), load it onto a cargo ship and float 4th class, "animal class" up the coast of Africa, through the red sea and disembark in Cairo, Egypt, where they drive to see the Pyramids, the Sphynx, etc. From there they drive overland, in 1957, through Israel, Lebanon, Syria, Turkey (via Ankara), Greece, up through Yugoslavia, down to Rome, Marseile France, Berlin, Denmark, AMsterdam, Paris, then finally London where the car is loaded on the Queen Mary and ships back to New York. From there they drive it back to Oregon where he and the car have lived since ~1959.               Other things: The car is a 1955 model, which means it has the 11D engine, which is a 2 liter 4 cylinder that made new 59hp and about 90 ft lbs of torque, was the only TA engine to come with an oil filter, allowing you the luxury of going up to 3,000 miles between oil changes, rather than 1,000 miles. The other advantage is that the main bearings are actual bearings, rather than "white metal". The original car in 1934 had ~29hp, later models had ~35 then ~42, but the 11D, as far as the 4 cylinder models went, was the best model. The 2.9L I6 had ~79hp but weighed a lot more and required a longer engine bay resulting in heavier steering (the TA is technically a mid engine car) In 1956 or 1957 they introduced hydraulic rear suspension which later made it's way into the DS, and has since been licensed by either Rolls Royce or Bentley. Also french cars up until XYZ time were required to have at least one windshield wiper that could be manually actuated by a knob in the cabin, in addition to the power wipers. Also until 1991 all french cars had yellow headlights to help spot Ze Germanz (who had white bulbs) on the road at night during/after world war 2. I'd been looking on and off for Traction Avants in the US since at least September, but it's a pretty limited market as most were first imported from Canada, or were a family car imported by a loving owner when they came over from Europe. There's probably a couple hundred to a thousand in the US but they don't change hands that often. I found mine, mislabeled on a Portland craigslist ad, with a bad first photo. I ended up talking to my cousin's boss' auto friend, who suggested I talk to a french guy, Serge, who exports Ford Mustangs to France as his full time job. Serge has a thick french accent and he went to go look at it. He gave it a thumbs up, but there's an issue with the the blinker, the horn, and the shifting linkage, which is just a rod-end adjustment that needs to be done since the engine came out and went back in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCIIUI2Z8U8 Jay Leno has a good overview of the car, his of course is a 1949 six cylinder "Normale" (large) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jld1E50Xw8k Some downsides of the car: The "heating system" is literally a tube that runs from just behind the radiator, into the cabin. Many, many people have done a heater core retrofit, and that will be on my list of to dos when Fall arrives. The three speed transmission is really a two speed with a granny gear. The granny gear/first gear does not have a synchro, so you have to come to a complete stop to shift down from 2nd to 1st. Top speed in the 4 cylinder is ~65mph so it's best suited for in-city trips, but is happy to wind up to 45-55mph on major roads so long as you're not planning to drag race it. It's old and stuff will break. It's 67 years old. It has about 66,000 miles on the original engine and transmission Plus sides: The guy I bought it from took the engine and transaxle out of the car, took the valve cover off, cleaned everything, freshly oiled/greased everything, steering and drive boots are new, replaced all the hydraulic cables for the brake system, adjusted the drum brakes, other stuff like reupholster the interior, new headliner. The car has been repainted ~30 years ago and when he gave it to the restorer, it was nice and greasy on the bottom which implies the owner kept up with the grease points. Also the engine uses press fit cylinder sleeves, which makes rebuilding the car pretty straight forward, new piston rings and cylinder sleeves can be bought and replaced without any fancy tools. There's a small chance this has been done at least once but who knows. There doesn't seem to be any particular weaknesses to the car/engine, it's a low revving (3600rpm red line) long piston travel engine you might see out of a toyota hilux so it's not especially stressed, suspension was designed to deal with rural/agricultural france and in fact the commerciale variants were just limo variants with no rear windows and a hatch back door. By 1945 they had worked out all the crippling design flaws and proceeded to make them for another decade (pre-1940 models are pretty rare to find, a lot of them got eaten in WW2 by the french resistance (FFI) So what's this about nipples? Well being a 1930s design, all the moving parts, in particular the suspension is all manually greased using a grease gun, which connects to a "grease nipple" which is sort of like a ball hitch with a spring loaded ball bearing that is a one way valve you can squirt grease into, and then you keep squirting until all the old grimy grease comes out and you see new clean grease. You have to do this every 1000 miles. Where is it now? It's near Salem, Oregon. I've contracted an enclosed carrier to pick it up and haul it to Washington DC, where I'll either transport it (somehow) by enclosed carrier to North Carolina (~300 miles away) or just drive it (~8-10 hours on country roads, avoiding I-95). I haven't really figured that part out yet. It's supposed to arrive "before the middle of april" as there's only one guy who does Pac NW -> NE route, and he's taking a load of cars west this week (probably) More other stuff: they made 2 door versions, convertables, limos, a three row seating "familiae", a three row seating with a farm animal urine draine "comerciale" and all the other repurposed stuff you can imagine. A lot of Normale were pressed into Taxi service in france as well. Repowering the car is a bit of a trick, as the front subframe is only ~11" wide and the transaxle is quite narrow. A VW transaxle (the most obvious donor transaxle) won't fit the stock subframe, although supposedly a hilux front transfer case/differential is said to probably fit but I've not seen one in the wild. There's at least two electric repower projects I've seen but no info on them.       Grease nipples galore:     
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Mar 23, 2022 03:13
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Hadlock posted:This car has a history. What the???? How did you even find something like this? That is completely awesome.
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Mar 23, 2022 03:28
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Grease-gun grease & engine oil dripped through tiny caps? Ayuh, that 1930s tech for you. If you don't already have one, invest in a pump-style oil can. A lot less messy & better control when topping up your cups. It looks to be in great shape! I vote drive it home from DC. PainterofCrap fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Mar 23, 2022 |
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Mar 23, 2022 03:31
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PainterofCrap posted:If you don't already have one, invest in a pump-style oil can. A lot less messy & better control when topping up your cups. 100%. I have four of these for the different lubricants my 1950s soutbend lathe needs it's various cups filled with.
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Mar 23, 2022 03:45
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Absolutely incredible. You could never reply to the thread again and I'd be satisfied, great story and info.
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Mar 23, 2022 04:08
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Holy balls. Amazing car, more amazing story. Wow.
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Mar 23, 2022 04:22
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This rules. Consider driving it to the mississippi, floating down until you hit roughly NC and then driving across. Yes, it will be a lot more work and does not make sense but I don't know how else you can live up to the initial journey. Also, this is pretty good: two definitely 100% mennonites posted:two men who have been drafted... they ride around on horse and buggies, big beards, no electricity etc, and concientious objectors. So... they buy a local Citroen Traction Avant in the Congo and drive it to London. ok, I looked it up before posting and some mennonites drive cars.
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Mar 23, 2022 04:37
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Holy poo poo, I saw your posts in BFC a while ago but had no idea the car had this kind of background. What an amzing find! How do you not just drive it from Oregon yourself after all this though?
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Mar 23, 2022 11:23
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builds character posted:This rules. Can confirm I did not ride around the front range of CO in a horse and buggy, and my lack of a beard is not an affront to my religious upbringing.
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Mar 23, 2022 16:20
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that's a lot of nipples
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Mar 24, 2022 16:19
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This is great. Especially with the history behind it.
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Mar 24, 2022 18:58
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Car has loaded in Oregon, ETA April 7 to the East Coast  
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Mar 28, 2022 23:08
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Wistful of Dollars posted:that's a lot of nipples Not really. If you work on industrial equipment or old cars or tractors, every joint has a grease fitting. It's the modern "seal everything for life (which is actually bullshit and a way to drive service calls and make maintenance faster)" mentality that's novel and IMHO, lovely. Hadlock, amazing car!
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Mar 31, 2022 12:37
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Car delivery guy called. He will be ready for drop off in DC 9am Sunday, approximately 8 days early 1) it's about an 8 hour drive home from DC to my house at Citroen speeds, assuming absolutely 0 issues on an unproven, 70 year old car 2) wife scheduled her international business trip to leave our home town about noon on Sunday, around the delivery of car happening next weekend or later 3) I'm responsible for our toddler who requires a car seat while she's out of town 4) even if I were to hop on a plane with the toddler and car seat, I don't have the aftermarket seat belt to install 5) driver requires cash on delivery Going to see if I can fly to DC with the toddler, park it in my buddy's garage for a week, then fly back same day, then fly back the following Saturday and drive it home? Maybe?
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Apr 1, 2022 22:49
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Tell the guy that your deal was for the following week, and you can't make it to Washington that day. He can keep the car in the trailer for a bit.
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Apr 1, 2022 23:02
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Hadlock posted:Car delivery guy called. He will be ready for drop off in DC 9am Sunday, approximately 8 days early Can't you get another entity to bring it to you in gently caress Nowhere Eastern North Carolina? I would think it's a lot easier to get the car moved from DC to gently caress Nowhere Eastern North Carolina than West Coast to gently caress Nowhere Eastern North Carolina. KYOON GRIFFEY JR fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Apr 2, 2022 |
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Apr 2, 2022 00:58
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Hadlock posted:Car delivery guy called. He will be ready for drop off in DC 9am Sunday, approximately 8 days early First thing you should do is get back to the shipper and explain that you can't be there until (at least) your wife gets back from her business trip to watch your kid. U-haul pickup + U-hail car trailer? Try to keep the kid entertained for sixteen hours?...uh...how about a babysitter...? Where was he going to drop it in DC? Usually, it's some type of enclosed (fenced) shipping facility. I doubt he can just keep it on the truck, these guys make no money just sitting. Do you have to be there to pay? Usually they want you to inspect & then sign off on it. If it doesn't have to be you...could your DC friend pick it up & sign off on it, then put it in his garage? That way you just need to send him the $$...assuming he can drive a manual PainterofCrap fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Apr 3, 2022 |
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Apr 3, 2022 17:44
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My wife's work trip left at noon on Sunday, so loaded up the kiddo Saturday night and drove 6 hours north to Alexandria VA, slept for like 3 hours in a hotel, then met the guy at some riverfront park near my friends house Promptly stalled out the engine going up a hill with the choke fully out. Finally got it moving and visited my friend a couple blocks away. Drove it to the airport parking garage and called it a day. Car runs and drives pretty good, starts right up if you know what you're doing. Having a manual choke and adjustable ignition timing is pretty interesting, still figuring that out, it's been probably 25 years since I drove a carbureted car Also did a great job of running down the battery running and running the starter. I now know why it's called an ignition switch. Flipped the ignition switch to "on" fired right up     In the last photo you can see it next to a model 3 which gives you an idea of how big it is. The top view shows off just how drat shiny it is I guess next weekend I'm flying up to DC and then towing it back on a U-Haul, probably over two days, taking side roads because gently caress everything about I-95 But uh yeah, runs and drives remarkably well for a car that's largely all original and 70 years old, had no issues keeping up in Sunday morning traffic at 35-40 which is all I'm ever going to ask of this Transmission shifted great, not sure if Serge was really rushing the shifts or what but I drove across Alexandria and Arlington VA and through a parking garage only lightly grinding the gears once or twice, I think the restorer guy got in there and fixed it properly before it shipped out Got the car parked at the airport and then took a nap and drove 6 more hours south on i-95, gently caress that highway Hadlock fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Apr 4, 2022 |
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Apr 4, 2022 16:17
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That is insanely shiny. Looks great.
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Apr 4, 2022 16:43
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That thing is loving gorgeous, I would stop and stare if I saw that in an airport parking lot.
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Apr 4, 2022 19:13
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That is a beautiful little car.
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Apr 4, 2022 20:40
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Very awesome and thanks for sharing it's backstory as well. Really interesting stuff and a great read.
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Apr 4, 2022 20:44
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The top AAA tier includes 200 miles of towing. I would seriously consider signing up for that and driving it - as long as you make it within 200 miles of home you’ll have a story to tell!
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Apr 4, 2022 21:25
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Ja platinum AAA is the poo poo. drat that TA looks extremely solid and very clean. Congratulations on a pro score!
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Apr 5, 2022 02:25
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Advent Horizon posted:The top AAA tier includes 200 miles of towing. I would seriously consider signing up for that and driving it - as long as you make it within 200 miles of home you’ll have a story to tell! I'm reasonably confident I can drive the car for 150 miles so that AAA is looking pretty interesting as the platinum tier is a) probably cheaper than the cost to tow it the full distance and b) almost certainly gonna take advantage of the 4x tows per year, that sounds like a slam dunk for my situation Also I ran across this video and watched it to the very end, which was a tremendous mistake: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW-WtwdC1uY Basically every problem he has, besides the rings finally giving out, was a seal problem, and all the seals, carb, distributor, fuel pump have been replaced/rebuilt in the last six months, so I now have all sorts of false confidence that my car can do this trip. Also my car is roughly thirty years newer, not that age counts for anything after 50 years
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Apr 8, 2022 01:29
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Very cool Citroen. I remember seeing one a couple of years ago when I was buying some outdoor furniture from an old bloke who had one in pieces in his garage.
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Apr 8, 2022 01:50
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Hadlock posted:I'm reasonably confident I can drive the car for 150 miles so that AAA is looking pretty interesting as the platinum tier is a) probably cheaper than the cost to tow it the full distance and b) almost certainly gonna take advantage of the 4x tows per year, that sounds like a slam dunk for my situation Bought a plane ticket to DC gonna attempt to drive it back tomorrow    Supposed to be in the high 70s low 80s and sunny If you're 5 miles east of I-95 tomorrow keep an eye out for me cruising along at ~40mph
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Apr 24, 2022 00:58
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Go go go, baby! And take lots of photos/video!
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Apr 24, 2022 01:31
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Good luck!
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Apr 24, 2022 02:03
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Goon speed!
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Apr 24, 2022 05:01
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Pumped the fuel pump three times manually, pulled the choke all the way out, cranked right up on the second try after sitting for three weeks It can only go downhill from here
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Apr 24, 2022 15:07
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That Citroen is just such a good car. I love that you're doing all of this.
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Apr 24, 2022 15:51
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bonne chance, monsieur! 
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Apr 24, 2022 16:22
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Amazing find!
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Apr 24, 2022 16:41
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Me  : well it's running, I'm just gonna leave it running at the gas pump so I don't need to worry about starting it againAlso me  : what is vapor lock and why don't I have enough power to pull back into trafficCurrently about a mile south of Potomac river into Virgina on 301, gonna give it ~35 min to cool down with the hood up. Did a couple of laps around Arby's earlier but I think it was still too hot. Climbing out of these drat river valleys is hard on the engine makes it really heat up No issues with the cooling system, seems to just be fuel from idling I'm the sun too long? I hope? As with a lot of things with old cars just let them chill out and they'll start working again 
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Apr 24, 2022 18:42
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Moving!
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Apr 24, 2022 18:54
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How are we doing? 
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Apr 24, 2022 20:07
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Forgot to take my steroids for this persistent cough thing, was feeling really rough, also hadn't eaten and was dehydrated. Ate and drank just north of Newport News va The car on the other hand, besides a persistent vapor lock issue, has been cruising along at 45-50mph in third without an issue. Might have an exAuSt leak, get light headed when the wind comes from the right direction Somewhere on 32 South in 
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Apr 24, 2022 23:58
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Apr 25, 2022 01:06
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Sunset
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Apr 25, 2022 01:19
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