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indigi
Jul 20, 2004

how can we not talk about family
when family's all that we got?
that wasn't an uncalled foul gtfo

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In Training
Jun 28, 2008

I had no idea you could take into account uncalled fouls on reviews like this. Wild lol

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

how can we not talk about family
when family's all that we got?
if you wanna say it grazed her fingertips fine but that contact can't be a foul

Rick
Feb 23, 2004
When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.
I do notice that the WNBA announcers stress a lot more that the refs have different angles than we do.

In Training
Jun 28, 2008

Let's loving goooooooool

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

how can we not talk about family
when family's all that we got?
phew

DeimosRising
Oct 17, 2005

¡Hola SEA!


Played it right down the stretch but still a lot of tension

DC Murderverse
Nov 10, 2016

"Tell that to Zod's snapped neck!"

Nice of the Sun and Lynx to show us what deeply unexciting basketball looks like after all that exciting basketball

marioinblack
Sep 21, 2007

Number 1 Bullshit
I have no voice, amazing win

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

how can we not talk about family
when family's all that we got?
cmon The Sun

snyprmag
Oct 9, 2005

That buzzer beater was sweet

R.D. Mangles
Jan 10, 2004


give the ball to veronica burton

R.D. Mangles
Jan 10, 2004


https://x.com/MagicJohnson/status/1841536851087393279

snyprmag
Oct 9, 2005

Even making the playoffs isn't enough to save a coaching job
https://x.com/trendyhoopstars/status/1841580862875566501?s=46&t=0x_opuk5bo0lymk_1YRzgQ

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



Hey I've got a sincere question that I hope doesn't come across as weird. To set the tone, I'm someone who hasn't followed the WNBA but I've read a bit of the dialogue around Caitlin Clark in the WNBA and controversial media attention. I'm mostly an NBA watcher, I've watched a bit of the WNBA this year (not Clark related), and have enjoyed it, might watch the Liberty's playoff run, I don't really watch college basketball on either side so I'm ignorant on all of that.

What is it about Caitlin Clark that people who don't follow the WNBA care about?

What I mean by that is that I've read a lot of sentiments of people who seem to like Caitlin Clark and have it out for the WNBA, and there's this whole "hazing" thing that's getting a lot of media attention. I don't quite get why people who don't follow women's basketball (or maybe they're fans of women's college basketball but not the WNBA? that also seems very strange to me) but suddenly care very much about one rookie.

I presume she's very good? I know she had a big contract for the WNBA and sponsorship deals and all that, but beyond that I have no idea how good she is relative to the rest of the league? Why have people seemed to start caring about this sport but only in regard to one player?

more falafel please
Feb 26, 2005

forums poster

piratepilates posted:

Hey I've got a sincere question that I hope doesn't come across as weird. To set the tone, I'm someone who hasn't followed the WNBA but I've read a bit of the dialogue around Caitlin Clark in the WNBA and controversial media attention. I'm mostly an NBA watcher, I've watched a bit of the WNBA this year (not Clark related), and have enjoyed it, might watch the Liberty's playoff run, I don't really watch college basketball on either side so I'm ignorant on all of that.

What is it about Caitlin Clark that people who don't follow the WNBA care about?

What I mean by that is that I've read a lot of sentiments of people who seem to like Caitlin Clark and have it out for the WNBA, and there's this whole "hazing" thing that's getting a lot of media attention. I don't quite get why people who don't follow women's basketball (or maybe they're fans of women's college basketball but not the WNBA? that also seems very strange to me) but suddenly care very much about one rookie.

I presume she's very good? I know she had a big contract for the WNBA and sponsorship deals and all that, but beyond that I have no idea how good she is relative to the rest of the league? Why have people seemed to start caring about this sport but only in regard to one player?

She was a phenom in college, so a lot of people started watching women's college ball because of her. Then Angel Reese talked trash to her, which Caitlin said was normal and no worse than what she does herself, because they both play basketball. A lot of people who had never seen any women's basketball decided that they needed to defend one of those two stars against the other and You'll Never Guess Why

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

how can we not talk about family
when family's all that we got?
she's already very good, will probably go on to become great. the reason she's getting a lot of fan interest is because she was a phenomenal college player and spent four years consistently building a legacy of greatness that people got interested in, and she was playing against great competition, and the games were really good, and now her and her amazing class made it to the pros and they're all fun to watch and the games are good. the reason she gets even more media attention than you'd expect, even with all that buildup, is because she unfortunately became a proxy for the culture war

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



more falafel please posted:

She was a phenom in college, so a lot of people started watching women's college ball because of her. Then Angel Reese talked trash to her, which Caitlin said was normal and no worse than what she does herself, because they both play basketball. A lot of people who had never seen any women's basketball decided that they needed to defend one of those two stars against the other and You'll Never Guess Why

to spoil it a bit I have read a bit of this thread before, so I can guess the why 👀

indigi posted:

she's already very good, will probably go on to become great. the reason she's getting a lot of fan interest is because she was a phenomenal college player and spent four years consistently building a legacy of greatness that people got interested in, and she was playing against great competition, and the games were really good, and now her and her amazing class made it to the pros and they're all fun to watch and the games are good. the reason she gets even more media attention than you'd expect, even with all that buildup, is because she unfortunately became a proxy for the culture war

about what I figured then alright. thanks for the responses, they were very helpful.

I've started watching a bit more wnba this year, I think as a side effect of clark-mania, but the games I've watched haven't really involved her (the TV mostly has on Liberty games I guess, since I live in NYC), so I've had this weird parallel discovery thing on the other end of it where I'm watching the league more because of her but not really seeing her. so I had a weird moment of frustration reading the comments on yet another caitlin clark article, but it never seems to be about the sport itself? I don't know it's just annoying being exposed to so much talk about a sport but it's not really about the sport, like what's the damned point, if "you" have such a strong opinion of the league why don't you care about actually watching any of it.

piratepilates fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Oct 2, 2024

Kibner
Oct 21, 2008

Acguy Supremacy

piratepilates posted:

*snip*

so I had a weird moment of frustration reading the comments on yet another caitlin clark article, but it never seems to be about the sport itself? I don't know it's just annoying being exposed to so much talk about a sport but it's not really about the sport, like what's the damned point, if "you" have such a strong opinion of the league why don't you care about actually watching any of it.

this is a common thought among many, many, many people who followed the WNBA before this season.

In Training
Jun 28, 2008

It got so bad this playoffs the league had to put out a statement condemning the actions of Fever fans lol. I hope it just blows over with another season or two when Clark is just a star in the league like many others.

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

how can we not talk about family
when family's all that we got?
yeah she seems very likable (even if I've posted about wanting her to be a teensy more vocal against her racist cheerleaders) so it'll be nice when poo poo calms down and she can just ball and be goofy in press conferences

kathmandu
Jul 11, 2004

I think the chuds projected a lot of “all-American girl / america’s sweetheart” onto her as well, when the reality is that she’s got a volatile temper and cusses like a sailor

DC Murderverse
Nov 10, 2016

"Tell that to Zod's snapped neck!"

I know it is not actually his fault in any real way but I think we should blame Dave Portnoy for being a brand new WNBA fan and bringing his obnoxious and vaguely hateful brand of sports fandom with him

marioinblack
Sep 21, 2007

Number 1 Bullshit
I just hope that people end up finding out that like 90% of the players in this league are hilarious characters in their own right. Plus you get stuff like the Mabrey/Carrington beef ending with them being teammates and besties.

DC Murderverse
Nov 10, 2016

"Tell that to Zod's snapped neck!"

More expansion draft speculation, this time for the Sun and the two other teams that are currently coach-less. (edit 10/4: added Maria Vadeeva to the Sparks reserve and changed the Sun to reflect Jones/Bonner's Core Immune status)

Connecticut Sun:

Roster:

Alyssa Thomas (2024)
Brionna Jones (2024) *Core Immune*
DeWanna Bonner (2024) *Core Immune*
Tiffany Mitchell (2024)
Astou Ndour (2024)
DiJonai Carrington (2024 RFA)
Veronica Burton (2024 ERFA)
Caitlin Bickle (2024 ERFA)
Celeste Taylor (2024 ERFA)
Marina Mabrey (2025)
Tyasha Harris (2025)
Olivia Nelson-Ododa (2025)

Draft Rights:
Laila Lacan
Abbey Hsu

6 Players:
DiJonai Carrington
Alyssa Thomas
Marina Mabrey
Tyasha Harris
Olivia Nelson-Ododa
Laila Lacan

Likely Picks:
Veronica Burton

Atlanta Dream:

Roster:
Cheyenne Parker (2024)
Aerial Powers (2024)
Tina Charles (2024)
Lorela Cubaj (2024 ERFA)
Maya Caldwell (2024 ERFA)
Ezinne Kalu (2024)
Jordin Canada (2025)
Allisha Gray (2025)
Nia Coffey (2025)
Rhyne Howard (2025 RFA)
Naz Hillmon (2025 RFA)
Haley Jones (2026)
Laeticia Amihere (2026)

Draft Rights:

Nyadiew Punch
Matilde Villa
Isobel Borlase

6 Players:
Rhyne Howard
Allisha Gray
Jordin Canada
Naz Hillmon
Nia Coffey
Nyadiew Puoch

Likely Picks:
Tina Charles
Haley Jones

Los Angeles Sparks:

Roster:
Crystal Dangerfield (2024 ERFA)
Odyssey Sims (2024 ERFA)
Aari McDonald (2024 RFA)
Kia Nurse (2024)
Li Yueru (2025 RFA)
Rae Burrell (2025 RFA)
Layshia Clarendon (2025)
Stephanie Talbot (2025)
Dearica Hamby (2025)
Azura Stevens (2025)
Rickea Jackson (2026 RFA)
Cameron Brink (2026 RFA)
Zia Cooke (2026 RFA)
Lexie Brown (2026)

Reserve/Suspended:
Julie Allemand
Maria Vadeeva

Draft Rights:
Shaneice Swain

6 Players:
Cameron Brink
Rickea Jackson
Dearica Hamby
Azurá Stevens
Stephanie Talbot
Lexie Brown

Likely Picks:
Aari McDonald
Layshia Clarendon

DC Murderverse fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Oct 5, 2024

R.D. Mangles
Jan 10, 2004


there's nothing wrong with being a fan who is into the WNBA for the first time because of Clark or Reese or whoever (hell i only jumped on the bandwagon when the idiot Sky somehow convinced Candace loving Parker to come home) but a lot of the Caitlin Crybabies fall into two horrible categories: people who have never watched basketball, don't understand basketball, and are just using it as front for dumb culture war bullshit, and fans of the Iowa Hawkeyes.

DeimosRising
Oct 17, 2005

¡Hola SEA!


A ton of it is literally just college basketball fans, a category that already includes some of the dumbest mouth breathing racist blowhards in a country where being a dumbass mouth breathing racist blowhard is the national pastime

snyprmag
Oct 9, 2005

DC Murderverse posted:

I know it is not actually his fault in any real way but I think we should blame Dave Portnoy for being a brand new WNBA fan and bringing his obnoxious and vaguely hateful brand of sports fandom with him

He was poo poo talking Angel on twitter during the college tournaments, so rest assured, he is at fault in a real way.

In Training
Jun 28, 2008

R.D. Mangles posted:

there's nothing wrong with being a fan who is into the WNBA for the first time because of Clark or Reese or whoever (hell i only jumped on the bandwagon when the idiot Sky somehow convinced Candace loving Parker to come home) but a lot of the Caitlin Crybabies fall into two horrible categories: people who have never watched basketball, don't understand basketball, and are just using it as front for dumb culture war bullshit, and fans of the Iowa Hawkeyes.

I only started watching last year bc the nets just became impossible to give a poo poo about, and it turns out there's an unbelievably talented squad playing top tier basketball in the same arena lol

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.
https://x.com/thefrankiedlc/status/1841073045445783749

https://x.com/thefrankiedlc/status/1841467827607228821

A good article about the recent dust up

rujasu
Dec 18, 2013

I read Strauss's article and it's gross, absolutely bends over backwards to defend Brennan's behavior and talk about how great and important she is as a journalist. Like I don't think he *directly* took a side but that was the framing

R.D. Mangles
Jan 10, 2004


this was very good on the Brennan situation and the larger WNBA vs. doofus culture war

https://defector.com/the-wnbas-season-of-clash-is-big-business-for-the-permanently-aggrieved?giftLink=020dcebb639a51201027ea16f18dbfc8
(gift link that should bypass the paywall)


quote:

“Either the WNBA wants to be treated and covered like other major leagues or not,” one reporter wrote.

What if they don't? It's a compelling possibility, one I've contemplated every time someone tells me it's actually good that Stephen A. Smith has just wrapped up his latest excruciating First Take segment on the WNBA. Maybe the league is ill-served by a press corps that takes women seriously only when they emulate men. Maybe a group of athletes uniquely attuned to the trick of visibility—all its promise, all its threat—would like to set different terms for themselves. The modern woman athlete must be totally accessible to her fans and brand partners, because she makes more for her image than for her work. She must shrug off slights and slurs, because she is a professional athlete, not allowed to be sensitive. She must be totally gracious to everyone who deigns to cover her, because she is a woman and desperate for attention. Right now, those are the rules. But they don’t have to be.

Kibner
Oct 21, 2008

Acguy Supremacy

R.D. Mangles posted:

this was very good on the Brennan situation and the larger WNBA vs. doofus culture war

https://defector.com/the-wnbas-season-of-clash-is-big-business-for-the-permanently-aggrieved?giftLink=020dcebb639a51201027ea16f18dbfc8
(gift link that should bypass the paywall)

This was a fantastic article.

more falafel please
Feb 26, 2005

forums poster

R.D. Mangles posted:

there's nothing wrong with being a fan who is into the WNBA for the first time because of Clark or Reese or whoever (hell i only jumped on the bandwagon when the idiot Sky somehow convinced Candace loving Parker to come home) but a lot of the Caitlin Crybabies fall into two horrible categories: people who have never watched basketball, don't understand basketball, and are just using it as front for dumb culture war bullshit, and fans of the Iowa Hawkeyes.

Yeah, this is me too. I had been to a few games at Rosemont Horizon and a few at Wintrust, but didn't start really following until Candace came home

edit: man when I think about it's pretty wild that Candace Parker and I were probably in my high school at the same time on multiple occasions. I'm older than her but only by a year or so, and we were in the same IHSA conference

Rick
Feb 23, 2004
When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

R.D. Mangles posted:

this was very good on the Brennan situation and the larger WNBA vs. doofus culture war

https://defector.com/the-wnbas-season-of-clash-is-big-business-for-the-permanently-aggrieved?giftLink=020dcebb639a51201027ea16f18dbfc8
(gift link that should bypass the paywall)

Great article.

wraith_5_
Aug 25, 2003
66/67 votes for Clark for ROTY. This is going to be entertaining.

rujasu
Dec 18, 2013

Oh geez, whoever had that 67th vote should think about going into hiding.

DeimosRising
Oct 17, 2005

¡Hola SEA!


rujasu posted:

Oh geez, whoever had that 67th vote should think about going into hiding.

it was for angel too, and i guess it's her or cardoso for second but I really can't see that as anything but a protest vote, they were great but Clark was head and shoulders the best rookie

DC Murderverse
Nov 10, 2016

"Tell that to Zod's snapped neck!"

another edition of Expansion Draft Speculation, with a note as precursor: I read a really excellent article about the expansion draft and it mentioned that players that have already been given core contracts by their signed teams twice cannot have a core contract again. Because the way Golden State will be signing Unrestricted Free Agents involves coring them, players who have that status are basically useless to pick and thus won't need to be protected. The six players who fit that are Tina Charles, Dewanna Bonner, Brionna Jones (these three I've already talked about and I'm going back to my Atlanta/Connecticut sections to adjust), Brittney Griner, Nneka Ogwumike, and Natasha Howard.

Also, if you're interested in WNBA contract stuff, the Substack I linked above is an amazing resource, the writer goes through the CBA and explains things really clearly and knows what they're talking about. A good resource.

Phoenix Mercury:

Roster:
Diana Taurasi (2024)
Brittney Griner (2024) *Core Immune*
Monique Billings (2024)
Mikiah Herbert Harrigan (2024 ERFA)
Natasha Mack (2024 ERFA)
Charisma Osborne (2024 ERFA)
Amy Atwell (2024 ERFA)
Kahleah Copper (2025)
Natasha Cloud (2025)
Rebecca Allen (2025)
Sophie Cunningham (2025)

Reserved/Suspended:
Klara Lundquist

6 Players:
Natasha Cloud
Kahleah Copper
Rebecca Allen
Sophie Cunningham
Natasha Mack
Mikiah Herbert Harrigan

Likely Picks:
Charisma Osborne

Seattle Storm:

Roster:
Nneka Ogwumike (2024) *Core Immune*
Mercedes Russell (2024)
Sami Whitcomb (2024)
Victoria Vivians (2024)
Gabby Williams (2024)
Joyner Holmes (2024 ERFA)
Jewell Loyd (2025)
Skylar Diggins-Smith (2025)
Ezi Magbegor (2025)
Jordan Horston (2026 RFA)
Nika Mühl (2027 RFA)

Draft Rights:
Makenzie Holmes

6 Players:
Jewell Loyd
Skylar Diggins-Smith
Ezi Magbegor
Gabby Williams
Jordan Horston
Nika Mühl

Likely Picks:
Makenzie Holmes

Minnesota Lynx:

Roster:
Myisha Hines-Allen (2024)
Natasha Hiedeman (2024)
Cecilia Zandalasini (2024 ERFA)
Olivia Epoupa (2024 ERFA)
Napheesa Collier (2025)
Kayla McBride (2025)
Courtney Williams (2025)
Alanna Smith (2025)
Bridget Carleton (2025)
Diamond Miller (2026 RFA)
Dorka Juhasz (2026 RFA)
Alissa Pili (2027 RFA)

Reserve/Suspended:
Jessica Shepard

6 Players:
Napheesa Collier
Kayla McBride
Courtney Williams
Bridget Carleton
Alanna Smith
Dorka Juhasz

Likely Picks:
Jessica Shepard
Diamond Miller
Alissa Pili

DC Murderverse fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Oct 5, 2024

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DC Murderverse
Nov 10, 2016

"Tell that to Zod's snapped neck!"

And here's the last couple. Maybe this weekend I'll go through and sort of sort through and see what sort of base this would make. Golden State also has the ability to go get free agents like a regular team once the expansion draft is over, and they'll have draft picks for next year as well, although they haven't announced where those will go.

My instant hot take on this draft is that while I don't think we're going to see a situation like the NHL saw with the Golden Knights where the expansion team is instantly competing for a championship, the Valkyrie are definitely going to have a leg up on the expansion teams coming up, especially the ones starting after the 2025 season for three big reasons:

1. I think the Mystics are going to cut bait on Delle Donne, which will allow the Valkyrie to sign her if she's still interested in playing at all. She was under a core contract last year but didn't play. It was her first core, meaning the Mystics still have the right to do it again (and likely will if they retain her signing rights in order to get something of value for her). I think the mystics will ask for something back (probably a later draft pick this year) but they have enough players under contract through next year or beyond that saving one valuable space for a player who doesn't want to play for you is incredibly inefficient. Having her to build off will be an incredible boon, even if the rest of the players they get through the expansion draft are underwhelming, and it might even allow them to attract a higher class of free agent talent.

2. Unless they spread out the expansion to one a year, there will probably be two teams competing for the same talent. Spreading it out seems like the sensible option but if I were the new ownership in Toronto/Portland I definitely wouldn't want to be the one going first because...

3. The new broadcast deal and CBA are set to start in 2026, meaning the free agency market for 2025 is going to be insane because everyone will be signing deals that expire before the new CBA. New broadcast deal and new CBA mean new salary cap and likely a massive bump in salary as a result of the huge growth the league has seen over the last few years. Every establish player is going to want to get their money, which means that no one wants to be signed to a contract that will be massively devalued after a year. There are already an incredibly small number of players signed beyond next season. All this means that at this time next year when the WNBA is getting ready to welcome the new-new teams to the league doing another expansion draft, basically no one aside from people on rookie deals drafted in 2023-2025 is going to be available to be picked. I don't know how you fix that, but anything that forces free agents onto new teams or forces players to sign deals before the new caps and maxes are established are going to be no-gos.

Washington Mystics:

Roster:
Shatori Walker-Kimbrough (2024)
Emily Engstler (2024 ERFA)
Sug Sutton (2024 ERFA)
Julie Vanloo (2024 ERFA)
Ariel Atkins (2025)
Brittney Sykes (2025)
Stefanie Dolson (2025)
Karlie Samuelson (2025)
Shakira Austin (2025 RFA)
Sika Kone (2026 RFA)
Jade Melbourne (2026 RFA)
Aaliyah Edwards (2027 RFA)

Reserve/Suspended/Weird rear end Contract Situation:
Elana Delle Donne

Draft Rights:
Nastja Claessens
Txell Alarcon

6 Players:
Ariel Atkins
Stefanie Dolson
Brittney Sykes
Aaliyah Edwards
Karlie Samuelson
Shakira Austin

Likely Picks:
Elana Delle Donne
Jade Melbourne

Dallas Wings:

Roster:
Natasha Howard (2024) *Core Immune*
Satou Sabally (2024)
Jaelyn Brown (2024 ERFA)
Sevgi Uzun (2024 ERFA)
Arike Ogunbowale (2025)
Teaira McCowan (2025)
Kalani Brown (2026)
Maddy Siegrist (2026 RFA)
Lou Lopez-Senechal (2026 RFA)
Stephanie Soares (2027 RFA)
Jacy Sheldon (2027 RFA)

Reserve/Suspended:
Awak Kuier

Rights to:
Carla Leite (9th, 2024)
Paige Robinson (31st, 2023)

6 Players:
Arike Ogunbowale
Teaira McCowan
Jacy Sheldon
Maddy Siegrist
Carla Leite
Satou Sabally

Likely Picks:
Kalani Brown
Sevgi Uzun

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