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MrMojok posted:So an "unsustained" complaint then, is one that was never proven, by people who have no means to ever prove them in the first place, under the vast majority of circumstances. Holy poo poo. Look at when Jenkins is having the "clear the corners" strategy explained to him. They knowingly detain people who have done nothing wrong, knowing that the majority of them will just sign the form the next morning to say there will be no charges if they agree to not make a complaint since it means they get to go home.... and if they don't, they have to go back into a cell to wait until they can actually have their complaint heard/go through a system that has already proven to be completely stacked against them. The result is empty streets and therefore the perception that the police have effectively chased off criminals, when for the most part they've just grabbed anybody (black) who was there and dumped them in a cell overnight for literally no reason. And they get away with it. Then bitch and moan that they can't understand why people don't appreciate and respect "all we're doing!" for Baltimore.
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May 11, 2022 05:11
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Shageletic posted:Apparently she's a composite. Which makes sense. But just glad to have a non-cop protagonist in here. I get the impression David Simon still believes there are some good cops and the system can be reformed and the fundamental underlying problem is not capitalism.
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May 11, 2022 08:35
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The apartment complex in episode 1 is the same one that the murdered nun from The Keepers lived at in real life. Kinda weirded out that I recognized it immediately, it’s been like three years since I watched that.
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May 11, 2022 11:33
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Orange Devil posted:I get the impression David Simon still believes there are some good cops and the system can be reformed and the fundamental underlying problem is not capitalism. Can you point to something specific that makes you think Simon believes the system can be reformed? Looking at most of what he has produced, the thesis tends to boil down to "the system is fundamentally broken and any attempt to reform it will be ground into dust."
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May 11, 2022 16:00
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https://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/sep/28/wire-david-simon-interview-american-politics-show-me-a-hero For example. I think Simon's biggest limitation is that he only sees the world (can only see the world?) through American eyes. There is a material reason why the US middle class was built post WW2 and then demolished. It has to do with US empire and hegemony and the tendency of the rate of profit to fall and other material reasons. But you can't see that if you look at just the US. You see a time when things were getting better for working class people and minorities and then you see a time when things start getting worse and worse. And it is understandable to want to go "back" to that time when things were getting better, and that time having existed proves that this must be entirely possible right? And it must be some actors in the system somewhere or some attitudes that are widely shared that have led to this change which just needs to be undone. But that's not the game. It's wanting things to be one way, but it's the other way. Like the main undercurrent of reading Simon's views in the piece I linked is his appeal to society in America. How in the end you are all Americans. That is a lie suckers are told to accept bullshit, and Simons believes that lie. The world is not divided along national lines. If it was, American elites would care some bit about American poor or American minorities etc. They don't. The world is divided along class lines. Looking at it that way holds infinitely more explanatory power. Orange Devil fucked around with this message at 16:47 on May 11, 2022 |
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May 11, 2022 16:42
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David Simon posted:“The Wire depicts a world in which capital has triumphed completely, labour has been marginalised and moneyed interests have purchased enough political infrastructure to prevent reform. It is a world in which the rules and values of the free market and maximised profit have been mistaken for a social framework, a world where institutions themselves are paramount and everyday human beings matter less... It has to change. When capital also is entitled to buy the government, that same government that might in some way create the basic standards of behaviour, everything from child labour to environmental protection, to workplace safety, to minimum wages that are consistent with the cost of living… Well eventually it’s going to get to the point where it’s so fuckin’ bad that people are going to throw a brick.” It doesn't sound like he disagrees with you that much. He identifies as a social democrat so clearly he's not interested in a complete overthrow of our capitalist overlords, but I don't think he thinks the current system is reformable in a way that we would recognize it. I don't think he's suggesting that the post-WWII boom is a state we should return to in its entirety. edit: Also that interview is now 8 years old. I don't know how his outlook has changed post-2016 but I doubt he's feeling more sanguine. Jewmanji fucked around with this message at 17:40 on May 11, 2022 |
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May 11, 2022 17:36
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Max posted:Can you point to something specific that makes you think Simon believes the system can be reformed? Looking at most of what he has produced, the thesis tends to boil down to "the system is fundamentally broken and any attempt to reform it will be ground into dust." Follow him on Twitter, he's a very outspoken liberal but typically ignores most leftist ideals about core issues. He likes telling Trump and Republicans to gently caress off but you don't see much when it comes to capitalistic issues and such. I think he thinks the core problem is corruption without attacking why that corruption takes place.
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May 11, 2022 17:50
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Kevyn posted:The apartment complex in episode 1 is the same one that the murdered nun from The Keepers lived at in real life. Is it worth watching. Did a quick google and it seems to be exceptionally heavy
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May 11, 2022 17:57
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Edit: This is in reply to Orange Devil I would disagree with you in general here, looking at what happens in Show Me A Hero, specifically the main council-member that ultimately pushes the vote to allow the low income housing in Yonkers. People that try to fix the system or do something good in most of Simon's work are almost always sidelined or immediately punished by state actors within the system they are trying to change. This is even seen on WOTC with the officer that calls up Steele and tells her that after attempting to say something about what they thought about policing in the city, he got sent out to pasture. Hell, season 4 of of The Wire is basically one giant yell into the void about how people that are born into the system have no way of escaping it because of how hosed up the school system is, and the only people that try to actively address it are quickly shut down for daring to question how things are done. Looking at his twitter account, which is intensely active, you see him agreeing with people that even The Wire may have been too optimistic: https://twitter.com/AoDespair/status/1519090408835403776?s=20&t=kbx0ylWZOhvwEQbEseeC8A Here he lays out exactly what he is going after for this show: https://twitter.com/AoDespair/status/1520423163120730114?s=20&t=kbx0ylWZOhvwEQbEseeC8A (That's a thread that is worth reading.) I do agree that he generally has a softer hand for the homicide department in Baltimore. That's not surprising since he did spend a lot of time with them in the past and tends to frame their work as real police work, versus the day to day busts that do nothing but ruin people's lives. Even then, I find his view fairly pessimistic. Edit: Darko posted:Follow him on Twitter, he's a very outspoken liberal but typically ignores most leftist ideals about core issues. He likes telling Trump and Republicans to gently caress off but you don't see much when it comes to capitalistic issues and such. I think he thinks the core problem is corruption without attacking why that corruption takes place. Oh yeah I do follow him. I was mostly asking because I didn't really agree with that argument but wanted to see if anything specific within his work stood out that supported it.
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May 11, 2022 18:11
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I’m watching the first episode now, and there sure are a lot of “hey, you’re that actor (gender-neutral) from the wire!“
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May 11, 2022 20:26
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Shageletic posted:Is it worth watching. Did a quick google and it seems to be exceptionally heavy Yeah it was pretty good. Definitely goes to some dark hosed up places, even for a murder documentary.
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May 11, 2022 21:29
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ulvir posted:I’m watching the first episode now, and there sure are a lot of “hey, you’re that actor (gender-neutral) from the wire!“ Dookie kicked heroin and became a cop! Seriously, though, Simon does this a lot. Most all his poo poo (The Wire, The Corner, WOTC, Treme) use a lot of the same actors. Kinda like Scorsese, Paul Thomas Anderson and Spike Lee tend to do. I dig it on a couple of levels though. First of all, they're all GOOD. Second, it's really cool to notice faces (like you said) and, IMO, even better seeing them cast in widely different roles that lets them show off their range. loving Marlo is now real police homicide detective and it's loving wild. I cheated and watched episode 3 even though my intent was to wait and binge it out because, man, this show is great and I can't watch Better Call Saul without ponying up so I need something. Sucks it's only gonna be 6 episodes though because half way through I can already see the potential for a full couple of seasons here and it uses that same slow burn style that Simon is famous for so spreading it out a little would really work for me. The accents crack me up and really land for me since I'm from around that way sorta. "I bought some doap tied to a roap that turned out to be sope so I said "noap" and I ran out of hoap, couldn't coap and then I went to gowe moap."
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May 11, 2022 21:47
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"Aaron earned an iron urn."
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May 11, 2022 22:25
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My wife's from Baltimore and I didn't think she had an accent until I heard "let's go downie ossian hun" (meaning, "let's go to the beach") and then, lol
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May 11, 2022 22:50
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Eason the Fifth posted:My wife's from Baltimore and I didn't think she had an accent until I heard "let's go downie ossian hun" (meaning, "let's go to the beach") and then, lol Bring some wooder.
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May 12, 2022 00:25
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Nah dummy!
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May 12, 2022 00:57
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BiggerBoat posted:loving Marlo is now real police homicide detective and it's loving wild. My wife hasn't finished The Wire so she doesn't know who Marlo is, but when I saw him show up on this, and he's a good cop, doing real homicide work, I literally had to pause it and explain to her how amazingly ruthless he was in The Wire, and the level of fear that surrounded him and his crew. He's such a great actor. It's amazing. Awesome to see that he can equally play a "good guy" just as well as he did a "bad guy". Really enjoying everyone on this show. JB is amazing as Jenkins too. Just the level of arrogance he has as Jenkins is amazing. I watched an interview with him on Desus and Mero a few weeks ago, and comparing that to this, you can really see how different he is compared to Jenkins. It makes his acting in this stand out so much more. (There are just so many scenes where I can say "man, I've run into a cop JUST like that. He really nails it imo). metavisual fucked around with this message at 13:53 on May 13, 2022 |
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May 13, 2022 13:47
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I liked how Jaime played Edgar in Bosch too.
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May 13, 2022 14:11
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metavisual posted:My wife hasn't finished The Wire so she doesn't know who Marlo is, but when I saw him show up on this, and he's a good cop, doing real homicide work, I literally had to pause it and explain to her how amazingly ruthless he was in The Wire, and the level of fear that surrounded him and his crew. He was so still in the Wire, like a cat about to pounce Here he's straight shouldered and prim, its such a great change
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May 13, 2022 14:23
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Jamie Hector already played basically the same role on Bosch but yes he's very good
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May 13, 2022 14:57
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mistermojo posted:Jamie Hector Everyone involved with The Wire goes on and on about how good he is since, apparently, he's like the exact opposite of Marlo in real life and is just able to flip a switch and get right into the role. Same with the dude who played Chris, who's like this terrifying sociopathic hit man on the show, but the guy that plays him is a Shakespearean trained stage actor or some poo poo and both dudes are described as the nicest loving people you'd ever want to meet. When you watch Hector in both shows, he still brings this same, cool, collected, methodical element to both characters - even though they're night and day character wise - and pulls off most of what he evokes with his face, tone, eyes and body language. I wish his role was larger here and maybe it will be moving forward. He does more with less and says a lot without needing a ton of lines to do it. metavisual posted:
Agree with this too. SImon always gets great loving performances from his cast, even though I don't think the writing on WOtC is quite as tight as his previous work. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 18:25 on May 13, 2022 |
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May 13, 2022 18:22
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Shageletic posted:He was so still in the Wire, like a cat about to pounce "I'm gonna need you to go over there and pack up your people" *lines up an approach shot with an 8 iron* "I'm bein' a gentleman about for the moment"
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May 13, 2022 18:27
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Even his sex looked joyless and emotionless
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May 13, 2022 18:36
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I forget that was even a subplot because Marlo was otherwise* an inhuman avatar of amoral capitalism. *except for the "my name is my name" bit
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May 13, 2022 18:40
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I really like that even when we see Suiter lose his temper (or pretend to at least) and grab that lady to declare he's had enough and he's going to arrest her if she doesn't start cooperating, his anger is in a completely different vein to the rage we see from Marlo. Marlo's rage is terrifying and dangerous, Suiter's rage is "Yeah okay I've had enough of this, time to force the issue".
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May 13, 2022 22:32
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mistermojo posted:Jamie Hector already played basically the same role on Bosch but yes he's very good Bosch Legacy may or may not feature some cameos...
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May 13, 2022 22:48
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I think I saw an interview way back from Jaime where he talked about how he tried to carry himself like royalty when playing Marlo. Basically keeping every movement as minimal as possible, since the character felt he had so much power he only had to do the bare minimum to make things happened. Its an interesting insight into the character, and you can really see it in all the little things he does on The Wire. Edit: eyyy found it here quote:He moves the way a king might move or the way any leader of men might move. Marlo wastes nothing: He’s very economical. He’s a man of few words. He wastes no actions. It requires a lot of discipline Max fucked around with this message at 23:50 on May 13, 2022 |
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May 13, 2022 23:46
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Narcissus1916 posted:Bosch Legacy may or may not feature some cameos... *sighs and starts watching Bosch Legacy*
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May 13, 2022 23:53
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LesterGroans posted:*sighs and starts watching Bosch Legacy* Its good! I mean its literally just Bosch season 8. And I'd say thats off topic but Bosch and The David Simonverse (shut up, its a thing) share a good chunk of creative teams.
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May 14, 2022 01:49
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Narcissus1916 posted:Its good! I mean its literally just Bosch season 8. And I'd say thats off topic but Bosch and The David Simonverse (shut up, its a thing) share a good chunk of creative teams. Yeah, Bosch is solid Dad TV, but it getting a spinoff (is it really a spinoff if it has the same main character?) gave me an excuse to stop watching. Knowing Jamie Hector will pop up just guaranteed I'll check it out though.
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May 14, 2022 01:56
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I am really enjoying this. I don't mind the exposition so much given the compressed timeframe and the fact much of it is factual, real-life information. Obviously the show isn't a documentary, but I'm willing to make more allowances than I would be for something that was purely fictional. Jon Bernthal's corrupt cop is an interesting character - he has a passing resemblence to an IRL friend of mine (who also has a bit of the same swaggery attitude, albeit much more of an actual nice person). I'm also having fun imaginging him as Mirror Universe Jake Piralta from Brooklyn 99  Kevyn posted:The apartment complex in episode 1 is the same one that the murdered nun from The Keepers lived at in real life. Oh man, when I saw it I instantly remembered The Keepers too, but wasn't 100% because it's been a few years too.
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May 14, 2022 04:46
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I just wish this show was as funny as the wire was
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May 14, 2022 07:23
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I started reading the book and just lmao at the huge spoilers on page 3, i didn't see that coming. I'll probably hold off on the show until i finish it. I'm 25% in and only two or three scenes have made it into the show so far, it's much more chronological.
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May 16, 2022 14:48
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Lol yeah. The book is definitely written as a researched indictment and not so much as a narrative (like, say, Empire of Pain is). I think that if you want the series to really hit home, you'll want to hold off on reading the book until the whole show airs. That said, it's still very good so far, and adds a lot of detail and additional information to the scenes in the show, and I highly recommend it.
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May 16, 2022 15:58
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I'm so sad there's only two episodes left.
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May 17, 2022 02:15
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amboolanz
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May 17, 2022 02:18
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Here's another connection to the Wire from this weeks episode... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTDXp5mRnWE
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May 17, 2022 02:38
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Boy this was an (intentionally) infuriating episode.
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May 17, 2022 04:21
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Ah, so this is what the author of the book was talking about in that tweet. You robbed a midget stripper? As an aside, this is a relatively small thing compared to what this assholes got up to, and compared to what cops do all the time, up to and including murder. But one of the really infuriating things in shows like this is the cops driving around drunk, and getting away with it, because you know this happens all the time IRL.
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May 17, 2022 05:13
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Also, what was Jenkins drinking in the "Happy Wayne Jenkins Day" scene, where the Lieutenant ribbed him asking if he'd confiscated it from a teenage girl?
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May 17, 2022 05:24
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