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twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

Its my party
and I'll die if
I want to

pastor of muppets posted:

It goes even beyond that! The Targs and the Baratheons cross over several times. Rhaenys is the most obvious example, but one of Aegon V’s daughters, Rhaelle, marries a Baratheon, too. She’s literally Robert’s grandmother.

Yea which is why they're all "eh, he's Targ enough" when he took the throne, but i don't think it was mentioned that they came with Aegon.

Man I'd love to see a Robert's Rebellion series, and show a more turthful verison of the story, about how Rhaegar and Lyanna Stark were totally into each other and that generally the entire thing was built on a lie that Robert told himself, and Ned's honour forced himself and the rest into the war over that lie.

That brief moment in one of Jaime's chapters were he remembers the last time he saw Rhaegar and he remembers being told "when i put down this rebellion, things will change" which is heavily implied that Rhaegar was going to come back and take out his dad and end the madness.

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Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009
BUTTS





twistedmentat posted:

Yea which is why they're all "eh, he's Targ enough" when he took the throne, but i don't think it was mentioned that they came with Aegon.

Man I'd love to see a Robert's Rebellion series, and show a more turthful verison of the story, about how Rhaegar and Lyanna Stark were totally into each other and that generally the entire thing was built on a lie that Robert told himself, and Ned's honour forced himself and the rest into the war over that lie.

That brief moment in one of Jaime's chapters were he remembers the last time he saw Rhaegar and he remembers being told "when i put down this rebellion, things will change" which is heavily implied that Rhaegar was going to come back and take out his dad and end the madness.

Okay, but only if he's still played by Mark Addy.

That DICK!
Sep 28, 2010



Gods I am strong now

BiggestBatman
Aug 23, 2018


To the question of rhaenyra being the more sympathetic one, next season she'll be the main character for sure but if they're smart they'll write her as increasingly paranoid and self centered once she retakes KL and by the end of the season three there won't be too many sympathetic characters beyond Addam of Hull

boo boo bear
Oct 1, 2009

I'm COMPLETELY OBSESSED with SEXY EGGS

twistedmentat posted:

Also its made me wonder, if the Targs and a few others were Valyarians, who were all the soldiers Aegon brought with him?

I think the targs had been living on dragonstone for over a century before the conquest kicked off, so they were probably locals that got press-ganged.

Anonymous Zebra
Oct 21, 2005
Blending in like it ain't no thang

twistedmentat posted:

That brief moment in one of Jaime's chapters were he remembers the last time he saw Rhaegar and he remembers being told "when i put down this rebellion, things will change" which is heavily implied that Rhaegar was going to come back and take out his dad and end the madness.

I recall a theory that Rhaegar had basically been planning a bloodless coup for awhile against his father, and that the tourney at Harrenhal was where he met with all the assorted Wardens of the Kingdom to plan it out. The basic idea was that he would depose his father and at the same time all the Wardens would declare for him leaving no room for any rebellion among their vassals. This was also the same time where suddenly the Wardens all married their children off to each other criss-crossing Tully's to Starks, Baratheons to Starks, Lannisters to...I can't recall anymore. But the idea was that the marriages were kind of a poison pill preventing any of the houses from pressing the "betray" button when the time came.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

as a person who never leaves my house I have felt covid is the best thing that ever happened to me. But instead of enjoying this, I now spend up to 16 hours a day posting weird fake vaccine news and medical advice on some weird idea I can extend covid and keep pretending I'm a shut in on propose.

I mean maybe.

But I think that the main reason that all the paramount houses married to each other is because G.R.R.M. hadn’t written the backstory on the lesser houses and characters yet.

Anonymous Zebra
Oct 21, 2005
Blending in like it ain't no thang

Platystemon posted:

I mean maybe.

But I think that the main reason that all the paramount houses married to each other is because G.R.R.M. hadn’t written the backstory on the lesser houses and characters yet.

Yeah, most of the time the theory iceberg is just stuff that could work. But things involving Rhaegar sometimes could be more likely than most. While GRRM didn't have all the tiny stuff hammered out when writing A Game of Thrones, we know for a fact that the Jon Snow parentage was definitely in there and that his "unreliable narrator" descriptions of the brute Rhaegar were meant to be misleading. I really do feel that there was supposed to be this tragic story of what could of been involving Rhaegar and it's one of the actual real subplots that GRRM was hiding throughout all the books (vs most of the other theories which are cute but have no real affect on the story).

pastor of muppets
Aug 21, 2007

We were somewhere around the Living Hive, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold...

BiggestBatman posted:

To the question of rhaenyra being the more sympathetic one, next season she'll be the main character for sure but if they're smart they'll write her as increasingly paranoid and self centered once she retakes KL and by the end of the season three there won't be too many sympathetic characters beyond Addam of Hull

LOYAL

:smith:

Vichan
Oct 1, 2014

I'LL PUNISH YOU ACCORDING TO YOUR CRIME

Typo posted:

also looking forward to

Aemond: "you have lived too long uncle"

Daemon: "on that much we agree"

If they don't use nuncle I'm going to throw a fit.

bobjr
Oct 16, 2012

Roose is loose.
🐓🐓🐓✊🪧



Grunkle Daemon

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

bobjr posted:

Grunkle Daemon

"i am not going back to dornish prison"

"yes burn the child"

General Dog
Apr 26, 2008

Everybody's working for the weekend

This show goes down easy enough, but I don’t feel like I get a substantially richer experience out of watching than I’d get from reading a Wikipedia article summarizing the events of the season.

The show doesn’t seem to really have any sort of interest in getting at what makes these characters tick, beyond the broadest strokes of fear and ambition.

General Dog
Apr 26, 2008

Everybody's working for the weekend

I mean, what’s the point of this show, beyond keeping HBO’s flagship IP afloat? Are we all just supposed to pick Team Red or Team Green and tune in to see how they do every week?

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

Its my party
and I'll die if
I want to

Anonymous Zebra posted:

I recall a theory that Rhaegar had basically been planning a bloodless coup for awhile against his father, and that the tourney at Harrenhal was where he met with all the assorted Wardens of the Kingdom to plan it out. The basic idea was that he would depose his father and at the same time all the Wardens would declare for him leaving no room for any rebellion among their vassals. This was also the same time where suddenly the Wardens all married their children off to each other criss-crossing Tully's to Starks, Baratheons to Starks, Lannisters to...I can't recall anymore. But the idea was that the marriages were kind of a poison pill preventing any of the houses from pressing the "betray" button when the time came.

I thought this was the Northren Conspiracy but that's actually about dealing with the Boltons rather than the Targs pre Robert.

I don't think Cerasi was ever promised to anyone before Robert? She wanted Rhaegar but he married what's her name from Dorne.

It is painted as a tragedy that Rhaegar died before he could become king, but he was pretty much the architect of his own demise.

I forgot that Cole tries to one on one a Black but they go yea right and mag dump arrows into him. That will be satisfying to see. I figure tonight we'll see Daemon and Rhae get hitched, and then next week Visarys will die and the end of the season will be Rhae being crowned on Dragonstone. And then Mushroom pops up and goes "as so the Dance of Dragons begins!" As his whips out his dick.

That DICK!
Sep 28, 2010



southron ambitions

Pattonesque
Jul 14, 2004
johnny jesus and the infield fly rule

twistedmentat posted:



I forgot that Cole tries to one on one a Black but they go yea right and mag dump arrows into him. That will be satisfying to see.

It's a hilarious capstone to his arc. He thought he did everything right and was so disappointed when Rhaenyra didn't live up to what he imagined she should be. Then he decides he's going to win a battle using his own personal bravery and skill, just like in the stories! And then Pate is like "nah" and he gets pincushioned

Typo
Aug 19, 2009

Chernigov Military Aviation Lyceum
The Fighting Slowpokes


twistedmentat posted:

I thought this was the Northren Conspiracy but that's actually about dealing with the Boltons rather than the Targs pre Robert.

I don't think Cerasi was ever promised to anyone before Robert? She wanted Rhaegar but he married what's her name from Dorne.

It is painted as a tragedy that Rhaegar died before he could become king, but he was pretty much the architect of his own demise.

I forgot that Cole tries to one on one a Black but they go yea right and mag dump arrows into him. That will be satisfying to see. I figure tonight we'll see Daemon and Rhae get hitched, and then next week Visarys will die and the end of the season will be Rhae being crowned on Dragonstone. And then Mushroom pops up and goes "as so the Dance of Dragons begins!" As his whips out his dick.

I wonder if they'll make it explicit that Daemon got Qarl to kill Laenor

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009
BUTTS





Typo posted:

I wonder if they'll make it explicit that Daemon got Qarl to kill Laenor

We all laugh when someone says his name and it just sounds like he's some rando named "Carl", right?

banned from Starbucks
Jul 18, 2004






Carl Drogo kills him

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011



Grimey Drawer

I heard it was a fookin' legend who killed him

Pattonesque
Jul 14, 2004
johnny jesus and the infield fly rule

PostNouveau posted:

I heard it was a fookin' legend who killed him

Qqrl Tqnner

bobjr
Oct 16, 2012

Roose is loose.
🐓🐓🐓✊🪧



If I remember right Cersei was originally planned to be married to Rhaegar, but then Aerys decided to spite Tywin and marry him to Eliara from Dorne. Aerys then complained his kids "Smelled too Dornish" and other racist stuff.

The same plan was to have Jaime marry Lysa Tully as well I think.

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004



Hmmm, that ending makes me wonder if Laenor’s going to pop back up later in the series renamed Alyn of Hull.

DJ_Mindboggler
Nov 21, 2013


General Dog posted:

I mean, what’s the point of this show, beyond keeping HBO’s flagship IP afloat? Are we all just supposed to pick Team Red or Team Green and tune in to see how they do every week?

I love the idea of a fantasy civil war without a clear "team" to root for, just watching well-acted characters execute plots and strategies with varying degrees of competence. But I also read/listen to books about the 30 Years War and various Chinese civil wars for fun, and have thousands of hours in Paradox games. So this is all my (very niche) jam.

bobjr
Oct 16, 2012

Roose is loose.
🐓🐓🐓✊🪧



I wonder if they're going to go the path of Alicent killing Viserys. Granted it's not like he's ever been in great shape.

Barry Shitpeas
Dec 17, 2003

there is no need
to be upset

Winner POTM July 2013


Next episode preview didn't spoil how decrepit Viserys looks after another 10 years. I like the idea that after he's been dying for 20 years they just end up poisoning him

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009
BUTTS





Barry Shitpeas posted:

Next episode preview didn't spoil how decrepit Viserys looks after another 10 years. I like the idea that after he's been dying for 20 years they just end up poisoning him

Cask of Amontillado him with his PlayMobil set.

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

Its my party
and I'll die if
I want to

Visarys needs to hold onto for at least 7 more years, as Daemon and Rhae's eldest kid was 10, and Aegon II was king for 3 years I think. I wonder if they'll do the puffy face thing that the art of him always has.

There's a good thing I noticed in the very obvious scene in the Throne Room on Driftmark. The lines are drawn between the Blacks and Greens, Otto stands behind the Greens, but apart, showing that while he is on their side, he is not committed fully to the kind of madness that Alicent and Cole are going to be involved in. Which is why he does not have a good time during the Dance.

Also if they're going to have Laener run off and be happy with his boyfriend in Braavos or something, I wonder if they'll later on show Daemon surviving leaping from his dragon to stab Aemond in the face.

Mr. Nemo
Feb 4, 2016

A roc and a hard place



Got the boo today and read part of Viserys chapter in preparation for the episode. I was not disappointed.

Just read Aegon’s the second.

HOLY poo poo

Everything so far has been NOTHING. I hope to god they dont poo poo the bed. The levels of hype were probably low due to season 8, but I guess they’ve recovered.

Feels good to be back on the spoiler thread since…what? I guess season 5 was the last that required one

Darko
Dec 23, 2004



Typo posted:

I wonder if they'll make it explicit that Daemon got Qarl to kill Laenor

I love how these unreliable narrators don't quite get the details right according to the show.

Typo
Aug 19, 2009

Chernigov Military Aviation Lyceum
The Fighting Slowpokes


I wonder what htey are gonna do with Laenor, maybe he comes back as one of the dragonseeds?

Metis of the Hallway
Aug 1, 2014




Typo posted:

I wonder what htey are gonna do with Laenor, maybe he comes back as one of the dragonseeds?

Nah I think he's gone. He's dead, he's off making a new life, he's not coming back. Nice end to his story.

Anonymous Zebra
Oct 21, 2005
Blending in like it ain't no thang

Re-watch all the conversations after that final shot. He basically tells Rhaenyra that he is ready to give up happiness to be the kind of husband she needs, and later her and Daemon are discussing "setting him free". All of us assumed they were planning to kill him, but it was actually Daemon and Rhaenyra mutually agreeing to let him be happy and be the kind of man he wants to be while Daemon steps in to be the kind of husband she needs. Daemon loved Laena, and felt sympathy for his brother-in-law. It's a far cry from the ruthless shithead the book makes him out to be, but it's the real him.

He's not coming back. He's been freed.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009
BUTTS





Metis of the Hallway posted:

Nah I think he's gone. He's dead, he's off making a new life, he's not coming back. Nice end to his story.

I hope for the rest of the series, when relatives are fighting each other to the death and slowly drowning in their own blood, they just smash cut to Laenor and Qarl brunching on a beach and holding hands.

Then back to absolutely awful, grim deprivations.

Perfect Potato
Mar 4, 2009


Unless the show goes full "Seasmoke....kind of forgot" I guess we're about to test how that life long bond dragon poo poo actually works

Caros
May 14, 2008



twistedmentat posted:

Yea which is why they're all "eh, he's Targ enough" when he took the throne, but i don't think it was mentioned that they came with Aegon.

Man I'd love to see a Robert's Rebellion series, and show a more turthful verison of the story, about how Rhaegar and Lyanna Stark were totally into each other and that generally the entire thing was built on a lie that Robert told himself, and Ned's honour forced himself and the rest into the war over that lie.

That brief moment in one of Jaime's chapters were he remembers the last time he saw Rhaegar and he remembers being told "when i put down this rebellion, things will change" which is heavily implied that Rhaegar was going to come back and take out his dad and end the madness.

I mean... not for nothing, but Ned only became a factor in the rebellion after king Aerys set his father on fire, strangled his brother to death in a saw trap, then demanded both he and Robert be sent to King's Landing. Or, well, their heads. Despite it being known as Robert's Rebellion, it was Bandon Stark who rode to Kings landing and started poo poo by telling Rhaegar to come out and die.

The war was honestly less about Lyanna at all, so much as the whole murderous insane king.

Bloody Pom
Jun 5, 2011


A Buttery Pastry posted:

I just realized the difference between Aemond and Daemon is just that the latter puts the D in front. Clearly this means Aemond is an upgrade on the latter, a younger brother able to keep his eye on the ball rather than be ruled by impulses.

:allears:

Oh he'll end up keeping his eye on something alright...

Toplowtech
Aug 31, 2004



Bloody Pom posted:

:allears:

Oh he'll end up keeping his eye on something alright...
I sooooooo wanted to answer "Who do you think would win in Daemon versus Aemond dragons fight and do you think Aemond's reduced line of sight will play a role in the outcome?" but that was too much on the nose.

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Metis of the Hallway
Aug 1, 2014




Anonymous Zebra posted:

Re-watch all the conversations after that final shot. He basically tells Rhaenyra that he is ready to give up happiness to be the kind of husband she needs, and later her and Daemon are discussing "setting him free". All of us assumed they were planning to kill him, but it was actually Daemon and Rhaenyra mutually agreeing to let him be happy and be the kind of man he wants to be while Daemon steps in to be the kind of husband she needs. Daemon loved Laena, and felt sympathy for his brother-in-law. It's a far cry from the ruthless shithead the book makes him out to be, but it's the real him.

He's not coming back. He's been freed.

It's great! Rhaenyra smiles at the end and I at first took that as a smirk at a successful murderous scheme, which seemed a bit callous, but in retrospect it's happiness at the chance to genuinely free a man she loves, and be able to have the relationship she wants and needs.

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