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Scallop Eyes posted:If they turned this show into an anthology after the Dance is finished, I wish they show the Blackfyre rebellions.They can even sprinkle a little of Dunk and Egg in there at the end. Blackfyre stuff is directly connected to GoT as well. But yea, besides Blackfyre rebellions, Aegons Conquest could easily be a multi season arc with the conquest being one season, the stuff with Aegon building the kingdom and the continued conflicts with Dorne being the next, and then the 3rd can be Maegor's rule.
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Sep 29, 2022 04:07
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I was watching this and my memory was only about Rhaenyras end, but then as soon as they introduced the kids, the memory of what I read in Worlds of Ice and Fire came back. In that, its very clearly the Greens that are the ones who star the war, they're the ones who push everyone into going against Rhaenyras as soon as Visary's kicks the bucket. I think its Cole that straight up goes "The King is dead, and the Princess Rhaenyras lacks the penis needed to rule, so all hail Aegon II!". Not to mention Aegon is straight up the first one to draw blood by killing Luke and his dragon at storms end. With her being the more sympathetic of the two, and the one who is legit trying to seal the breach and prevent a war, its going to be hard to get to a position where the audience isn't horrified at what happens to her. Also Alicient does kind of go into late GoT Cersei territory, killing off basically everyone around her as the war drags on.
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Sep 29, 2022 19:24
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Anonymous Zebra posted:Aemond is actually the one who makes the war go hot. Aegon is said to have initially rejected the crown saying that he had no desire to steal from his sister. The Greens basically forced it onto him at first. But even then (Lord Beesbury non-withstanding), most of the moves being made were political. I think everyone was pretty horrified when Aemond killed Luc, because it was kinslaying and also put all the other heirs on the board as legitimate targets. Oh thats right, Aemond is the one that kills Luc when they run each other in trying to get the Baratheon's on their side. I am reading Fire and Blood right now, and I'm only at the Jaehaerys part, but its basically just more detailed than the WoIaF history segments. Though the biggest revelation is the Baratheons being basically a client family of the Targs, with their founder being half Targ himself. Kind of puts Robert's hatred of them in a new light. Also the show is already laying in that Aegon II would be a lovely king, though probably not purely his fault, clearly his mother and Cole are turning into a raging rear end in a top hat, and not just a horny fuckboi which he would probably of been happier being. Also its made me wonder, if the Targs and a few others were Valyarians, who were all the soldiers Aegon brought with him? I figured that the actual soldiers that the Valyarians used were from conquered people, so they would be Andals, Rhoynar and other people that had been part of the migrations over the eons into Westeros. This is why no one really talks about them because they just assimilated into the Westerosi culture that was already basically their own.
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Sep 29, 2022 22:26
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pastor of muppets posted:It goes even beyond that! The Targs and the Baratheons cross over several times. Rhaenys is the most obvious example, but one of Aegon V’s daughters, Rhaelle, marries a Baratheon, too. She’s literally Robert’s grandmother. Yea which is why they're all "eh, he's Targ enough" when he took the throne, but i don't think it was mentioned that they came with Aegon. Man I'd love to see a Robert's Rebellion series, and show a more turthful verison of the story, about how Rhaegar and Lyanna Stark were totally into each other and that generally the entire thing was built on a lie that Robert told himself, and Ned's honour forced himself and the rest into the war over that lie. That brief moment in one of Jaime's chapters were he remembers the last time he saw Rhaegar and he remembers being told "when i put down this rebellion, things will change" which is heavily implied that Rhaegar was going to come back and take out his dad and end the madness.
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Sep 30, 2022 04:59
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Anonymous Zebra posted:I recall a theory that Rhaegar had basically been planning a bloodless coup for awhile against his father, and that the tourney at Harrenhal was where he met with all the assorted Wardens of the Kingdom to plan it out. The basic idea was that he would depose his father and at the same time all the Wardens would declare for him leaving no room for any rebellion among their vassals. This was also the same time where suddenly the Wardens all married their children off to each other criss-crossing Tully's to Starks, Baratheons to Starks, Lannisters to...I can't recall anymore. But the idea was that the marriages were kind of a poison pill preventing any of the houses from pressing the "betray" button when the time came. I thought this was the Northren Conspiracy but that's actually about dealing with the Boltons rather than the Targs pre Robert. I don't think Cerasi was ever promised to anyone before Robert? She wanted Rhaegar but he married what's her name from Dorne. It is painted as a tragedy that Rhaegar died before he could become king, but he was pretty much the architect of his own demise. I forgot that Cole tries to one on one a Black but they go yea right and mag dump arrows into him. That will be satisfying to see. I figure tonight we'll see Daemon and Rhae get hitched, and then next week Visarys will die and the end of the season will be Rhae being crowned on Dragonstone. And then Mushroom pops up and goes "as so the Dance of Dragons begins!" As his whips out his dick.
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Oct 2, 2022 14:28
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Visarys needs to hold onto for at least 7 more years, as Daemon and Rhae's eldest kid was 10, and Aegon II was king for 3 years I think. I wonder if they'll do the puffy face thing that the art of him always has. There's a good thing I noticed in the very obvious scene in the Throne Room on Driftmark. The lines are drawn between the Blacks and Greens, Otto stands behind the Greens, but apart, showing that while he is on their side, he is not committed fully to the kind of madness that Alicent and Cole are going to be involved in. Which is why he does not have a good time during the Dance. Also if they're going to have Laener run off and be happy with his boyfriend in Braavos or something, I wonder if they'll later on show Daemon surviving leaping from his dragon to stab Aemond in the face.
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Oct 3, 2022 04:30
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It shows that the Black's were clearly the more popular than the Greens after Aegon II fed his aunt to his Dragon the Black's kept fighting. Though again, they were clearly winning so that isn't worth stopping for. It also doesn't help that Aegon II was a really bad king. The only green i feel bad for is Heleana, she just wants to look at bugs and not hurt anyone.
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Oct 4, 2022 20:18
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Bloody Pom posted:Dragons raised in the Dragonpit are all stunted compared to those allowed to grow out in the wild, presumably due to the cramped conditions and controlled diet. Towards the end of the Dance the pit also gets stormed by a horde of peasants that overwhelmed the dragons contained within through sheer numbers, and then the whole drat thing gets collapsed by a wounded dragon crashing into the ceiling. I am pretty sure Rhae was just eaten, not set on fire, which is way worse because it seems like dragonfire basically instantly incinerates you so there's little pain, and Aegon II being super lovely and cruel, would want it to hurt. How dare his aunt, his grandfathers chosen heir, usurp the throne that his kinda crazy mom said is his. Typo posted:it's implied by this one character in the books that the maesters did it Yea, when Sam meets Malon the Mage (I think thats his name), there's a big infodump on magic as it once existed. Thing is the Maesters do have a huge amount of power; every lord great and small has one, they do all the communications between people through their ravens, and they have the knowlage of healing, so they can basically choose who lives and dies.
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Oct 6, 2022 02:03
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Xiahou Dun posted:Marwyn the Mage, the one who hosed off to meet Dany. Also I think you meant "father" instead of "grandfather" but like whatever : it's the Targs so I don't know if they're 100%. (Also, I had to stare at the sentence for a really long time and imagine a family tree to be sure.) Yea I can see how I'd get confused there. That DICK! posted:they'd merced like a baker's dozen of each other kids by that point, i'd say the beef had pretty good grounds to feel personal both ways by then I think by that point is was just Jace, Luke and Joff that were dead, Aemond isn't killed under after I think? And Helaena is purely Aegons fault. Wait, does the Bread and Cheese Assassins kill Aegon's kids before or after that? I wish Had my Worlds of Ice and Fire to referance, but its somewhere in a box in storage.
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Oct 6, 2022 03:27
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ruddiger posted:Blood & Cheese kill Aegon’s son Jaehaerys as payback for Aemon killing Lucerys, which is the first two big kills of the dance. Jace dies like a goofball right in the middle of the war getting shot down during some naval battle, and Joffrey doesn’t get it til way later. I thought it was Joff that died in the navel battle, his ship went down and was shot full of arrows while clinging to wreckage? Also its funny with Corlys going on about his legacy and such when his house is all but forgotten by the time of Game of Thrones. They are sworn to Stannis but its not really implied they're particularly important if I remember. That and stealing Cersei's fleet. I realized that Woiaf is like the rpg sourcebook, but Fire and Blood is like when someone writes a novel based on that RPG setting so there's more detail of the characters.
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Oct 6, 2022 17:55
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So I wonder if we're going to find out the Alicent didn't get Cole to announce Aegon the Hunter Biden on her behalf, but it was an idea that was either Otto or Cole on his own. It seemed at the end Alicent was kind of tired of the fued within the house, and she had seen how destructive it was. The look Otto gives when she goes to Rhae and looks like she is honestly trying to make amends is one of "what what the gently caress is she doing?". Until Aemond gets pissy everything was going really well, and maybe that changed Alicent's mind there, that maybe they don't have to kill each other. Jace and Heleana dancing is adorable, they both seem so happy together and marrying the two of them would have probably lead to another generation of peace and prosperity. Its sad knowing so many of these characters are doomed and to be honestly, its due to Otto's ambition. Being Hand wasn't enough, he had to have a king that was his direct blood. And he got Aegon II, the poo poo teen that is probably exactly what he wanted, a king ruled by his desires that he can control. Though that doesn't work out to well for him. Except Aemond, that guy is a fucker, can't wait to see Dark Sister shoved through his one eye. Also I'm curious how long the show will go on without Rhaenrys, as after her being turned into dragon snacks the Blacks still keep fighting, and that means the show will keep going after who its main character is dead.
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Oct 10, 2022 03:52
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Anonymous Zebra posted:There's no way in hell they kill Lucerys this season. They'll save that for season 2 since it dominoes into a series of other important poo poo (Blood and Cheese!). They still need to time-skip Aegon 3 and Visy 2 up to a point where it's believable that Aegon flies a dragon across the ocean and has the ability to tell his mom what happened. They need to establish Aegon's kids so we actually give a poo poo about them when Blood and Cheese show up. Yea that was the thing that stuck out, Aegon III becomes king when he's 10 I think, but then Aegon II rules for 3 years, and that kid did not look 7. Also they still have not bothered to make any of the Greens likable outside of Heleana, I listened to Alt Shift X's post game show and he runs a poll on who's side everyone is on and like 87% people said side Black. Rhae's kids are all shown to be legitimately good people, and so are Daemon and Laena's kids, its Alicent's two boys which are completely poo poo. Aegon is a drunk rapist, Aemond is just itching to start murdering. I guess Daeron the price who has not appeared or mentioned might not be a poo poo, but he's being fostered in Oldtown so who knows?
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Oct 10, 2022 18:08
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OctaMurk posted:Grrm is terrible with ages. Asoiaf is hosed up because all the character are actually way younger than you see in the tv series That was due to GRUM intending to have a time skip, but then decided against that so you end up with Arya being 8 and Sansa being 12. And yea, I think this could be a 4 season story, Rhae dying in the start of the 4th season, and the rest of the season being the final victory. I think you want to see Alicent going bonkers and having her dad and others executed. Blackfyres are my favorite Targ family drama, its got a cool cast of characters, and I mentioned earlier, ties directly into GoT with Bloodraven.
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Oct 11, 2022 00:43
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Yea once Vis dies the Greens crown Aegon thr snortfuck as king right away and Rhaenyras is crowned as a response once the news reaches her. If I remember there's a bit of a cold war for a while during which both sides shore up their support. But I'm surprised Luke dying is in the finale episode, that seems like something you'd do in the first or second episode of the season to indicate "shots getting real". But they're probably going to hold off on casting a whole bunch of new Lords until next season. We've seen a Baratheon lord already but we don't know is that will be the same one that joins with the Greens. My parents are behind and I saw the fight with the kids when I got home from work last night, and Aemond was literally going to murder Luke and Jace and Daemons daughters. Like he picks up thar stone and is clearly planning on bashing their heads in. It's amazing how lovely Aegon and Aemond are, especially compared to Luke and Jace. Alicents kids are drunk rapists and psychopaths, while Rhaenyras kids are dutiful and respectful. Though sadly in a system like Westeros has, the psychos are always going to win out . Daemon is completely psycho too but he at least can reign it unlike Aemond. It's going to be great watching those two hate each other until their battle over the God's Eye.
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Oct 12, 2022 13:40
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Anonymous Zebra posted:The Jaehaerys stuff is really interesting because it's one of the earliest hints that the Maester writing the book has an unconscious (or maybe very conscious) bias against women. Jaehaerys is a talented infrastructure/civil engineer/city planning guy, but he is an absolutely terrible father to his daughters (of which he has many). Almost every single progressive law that is passed during his reign is a result of his wife, the queen. Nevertheless, Jaehaerys is portrayed in the book in this really positive light even though his successor Viserys kept the peace as well while still being a good dad. The Jaehaerys stuff is really cool though, and a soild chunk of the book so I would not skip it. One thing from those chapters that I've not seen mentioned in anything is the story of the princess who stole the Black Dread, vanished and came back all infected with demonic parasites. The whole family tragity of Jaehaerys is heartbreaking. He and his wife had all these kids, two sons who would have been great rulers, their daughters were all strong willed and sadly that couldn't save them, but fortune wasn't in their favor and they all died before their times.
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Oct 13, 2022 19:06
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Toplowtech posted:Also gently caress; that's not how you deal with a rebellious teen (Saera). You killed her lover in front of her, forcing her to watch then you jailed her in the red keep and she nearly ran away with a dragon. Why do you think the silent sisters will do any better? Yea that was a rough story. The Della story was the saddest, even though she was happy in the Vale, I could see as soon as she got pregnant she was doomed. Poor Aemma, her life must have been nothing but sadness outside of Visarys and Rhaenyras.
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Oct 13, 2022 23:02
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I would not be surprised if the prophecy dies with Rhaenyras and that's why the Targs go massively downhill following the Dance of Dragons. There's what? 2 good kinds before Roberts Rebellion, Maekor and Dareon II? I mean they're not a string of disasters but its clear the dynasty had lost something, both material with the loss of dragons, but there was something in how they seem to act and rule that lost. Maybe the dance utterly destroyed the magic that they had in the realms, that they were just another Westerosi house that was super into sister loving.
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Oct 16, 2022 04:33
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bobjr posted:Aegon V "Egg" seemed to be a good king who was doing something likely prophecy related that got him killed. Yea I was going to say 3 good kings but Eggs rule was too short to do any really good for the realm. It also highlights one of the biggest problems with Westeros and why its so insanely dysfunctional, that there is no law but decree and tradition, and of course violence. So each kings rule is completely different and the only thing thats holding them back from doing anything. Most Medieval kingdoms and such had some outline of how their government was run set down, especially how succession was handled.
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Oct 16, 2022 06:01
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PostNouveau posted:Beesbury went out like a champ, but lol that he never realized everyone else in the room was in on a big conspiracy to have coup I think it was pretty clear the others on the Small council besides Cole and Otto didn't know what was going on, just were able to read the room better than Beesbury and weren't going to call out a coup right then and there. Once Cole just murders him, the rest are "welp, i don't want to end up dead" and fell in line. Also, like, murdering a bunch of lords and ladies that were at court is a really bad idea. But it seems like Otto and Cole are super ready to murder anyone, but forgetting that the nobles they kill have families who won't like it one bit, and there's no leverage over them. What was the building that was burning near the end? Was that the brothel that they went to find Aegon at? Also I am pretty sure the White Worm vs Larys is why she ends up murdering Heleana's kids.
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Oct 17, 2022 04:30
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I saw a lot of people going "But where did Westerling goooooooooo?" "How did he just vanish?". Okay, liike he's lord commander of the Kingsguard, that's how people in the Red Keep see him. No one is going to question if he just walks out the front door. The people who are inside the keep don't know that the King is dead, and the small council is explicitly hiding the fact. There's no way they could issue an order to arrest the Lord Commander without explaining why. Why is the Hand ordering this? Where's the King? Not to mention I don't think anyone would want to gently caress with Westerling, Also, this is a story about Alicent, Otto, Cole and those in their orbit, Westerling is not part of that. We know from the preview someone gives Rhaenyras Visarys crown so there's a good chance its Westerling. Though its weird, Westerling has been dead for like a decade at this point in Fire and Blood, but like whatever. GRUM has said he prefers the show version of Visarys, this good man who was unsuited to be king but still did his best, rather than someone who was a party dude. That's to the point he wants to rewrite that part of F&B. I actually don't remember what happens to Larys strong, though I don't know if its mentioned in Woiaf, just F&B and I only just got to the Great Council part. But I am pretty sure he looses his war of assassins against the White Worm. Mostly because his only solutions seem to be fire.
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Oct 18, 2022 03:41
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Cole is one of the core conspirators so he is probably thinking this is his time to seize his share of the power. No doubt he and Otto had a talk about how they keep The Queens womanly weakness from mucking up their plans to murder everyone who won't bend the knee to Aegon the snortfuck. As was said earlier, the existing histories paint this mess being Coles doing mostly, which I agree, is an easy scapegoat to keep the hightowers innocent of any real wrong doing. Though Otto does come to a bad end before the dance ends, and he's not the only Hightower out there. It's funny because none if the Greens or Black's come of in the histories very well and are not fondly remembered. Rhaenyras is called Maegor with teets, and the sheer number of lords that oppose Aegon II shows he was not a popular choice. Also lol the Lannisters stole the entire royal treasury.
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Oct 18, 2022 21:46
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I don't think Cole crowning Aegon is nothing more than a power move. Its clear the reason that Otto wants him on the throne is so he can control Aegon, and Cole is part of that. Having Cole crown the King shows who's in control. Also the coronation was pretty quickly arranged, in the book they leave poor Visarys body to rot for a week before doing anything, in the show its pretty clearly a single day, so any thing like "why did Rhaenys get access to her dragon" can be chalked up by them doing this in haste and so things like security may have gotten forgotten. Its the Four Seasons Landscaping Effect, it doesn't even seem like they knew Rhaenys was gone, the Greens were too busy trying to find Aegon and sticking a crown on him and rounding up every one in Kings Landing to observe the coronation.
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Oct 19, 2022 04:38
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Jezza of OZPOS posted:Loving the description of mushroom tryiong to mount a dragon  Jezza of OZPOS posted:imagine going to all the trouble constructing a 3 point unreliable narrative and then wanting to simply undo that because of the tv show based on it Honestly, everyone in the show comes of way better than in F&B. I'm into the early episodes part of the book now, and everyone is way more lovely in it than they are in the show. Rhaenyras seems like a spoiled brat in the book while in the show her outbursts are clearly because she chafes at the lack of agency being a woman in Westeros hoists up her. But for a show, you do need to make your main cast likable on some level. bobjr posted:The only real difference was book Viserys was fat to the point of being unable to climb the throne while show Viserys wasted away and became skeletal. Yea the show is a much more tragic end for him. Oh, of course that was a joke, i don't think he seriously intended to rewrite the book to align with the show. I wonder if this is like the Expanse with GRRM's hand in it more than GoT, he's able to alter stuff to see if it works better.
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Oct 20, 2022 19:50
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emanresu tnuocca posted:they didn't pass it down, Rhaegar rediscovers it in some ancient texts and goes crazy. Yea I mentioned earlier in the thread that one of the reasons the Dance is the start of the decline of the Targs is the Dance ends the beliefs in the prophacy when Rhaenyras get munched, that they loss the grand purpose they had. I bet even Maegor believed it and he had some twisted "make the kingdom strong" through his cruelty. Visarys never bothered to tell Aegon about it because he never intended it him to be his king. Maybe in an ideal scenario, Rhaenyras told her half brother about it eventually just to make sure someone beyond her knew, also maybe it would smarten him up. Man, Aemond's sapphire eye looked super cool. It could have been really goofy looking, like they just stuck a piece of blue plastic, but nope. Though I always got the impression Storms End was this squat, round tower of plain stone, that it was build for defense not grandeur, but it was pretty drat fancy in the show. I remember in one of the books its mentioned that Lyanna did not want to marry Robert because she did not want to live in the cold, damp halls of Storms End. Oh well, I guess they decided they can't have one of the great castles in the realm look like unpainted warhammer terrain. But like, loving Aemond, what did he think was going to happen? He literally did the "oh i just wanted to scare them" when someone waves a gun around and points it at someone and it goes off killing them. You'd think they'd be educated enough about Dragons that they would know they aren't perfectly controllable and they will react to the feelings of their riders not just their commands. Vhagar could probably feel the intense hatred Aemond had for Luke. I do like his "I have made a terrible mistake" look after though. I cannot WAIT to see that fucker get Dark Sister through the eye. I figure season 2 will end with the Blacks taking Kings Landing, and season 3 ends with Rhaenyras being fed to Aegon's dragon. Season 4 is the stuff post that. Which means we'll have to wait a while for Cole to get his.
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Oct 24, 2022 04:52
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bobjr posted:When he was young he had one mistress, then 20 or so years later had an affair with her daughter who looked like him, and was widely reported to be his. And in hid deathbed he legitimized all his bastards and that doomed the 7 kindoms to the Blackfyre Rebellions. I'm actually ahead of the show in F&B and my timeline was way off, Blood and Cheese is probably going to happen really close to the start of season 1, as it seems like it happens right after Luke's death. Probably be episode 2. I also wonder if they'll explain why so much of the Reach swears to Rheanyras, its left ambiguous, but its probably something to do with them not being fans of the Hightowers. Also for some reason I thought Alicent had her father executed, but no it's Rhaenyras. It's funny how the book really does paint her as just the worst, and the executions of Otto and the others like Ironrod are portrayed as massively cruel moves but like, they did straight up steal the crown from her, as the declaration was never revolked. And it also doesn't matter what Aemonds intention was, Luke was there only as a messenger, he left to avoid a fight, Aemond forcing a confrontation reads like the Greens are going to just resort to murder at any opportunity, so finding allies will be harder.
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Oct 25, 2022 20:17
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mweber posted:But has GURM figured out how to have sex with one yet? Did you not see the tapestries with the human/dragon orgies? There's a lot of stuff out there that people have pieced together that Valyaria's power was somehow due to them directly connecting to dragons on some level, blood magic or even interbreeding with them. Typo posted:in actual medieval times royal tours were often meant to impoverish the noble who hosts such tour My favorite stories about this was the nobles would pretend everyone has the pox or they're mad to keep the king/queen away. And dragons keep growing their entire lives, unless put in captivity, thats why the 3 that came with Aegon and his sisterwives grew so big (except for that one that the Dornish 360 no scoped) because they weren't confined to the dragonpit. Thats why the 3 on Dragonmount are bigger too, because they were free to do what they wanted. I am near the end of F&B, Visarys just returned from the Free Cities, but man the next seasons are going to have a lot of Child Death. I hope Blood and Cheese is not as brutal as it could be, I don't need to see a 3 year olds head sliced off. Also poo poo is insanely brutal and cruel throughout the dance. The War of 3 kings in Asoiaf is brutal, but it seems more on the level of normal war brutality, this is especially cruel, and so many betrayals and murders. The riot in kingslanding that leads to the storming of the dragonpit and the flight of Rhaenyras could almost be like 3 episodes because so much happens in it. loving Joff, you might have survived the whole thing if you weren't dumb and ran off with your mothers dragon. But drat I can only imagine what the fight between Aemond and Daemon is going to be like, though they're totally going to do the "he actually lived and ran off with Nettles" theory. I came home from work and my parents were watching episode 10 and my mom was very upset at Lukes death. At least Jace dies in battle.
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Oct 27, 2022 18:48
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I literally just finished fire and blood and it reminded me a lot of history books I read in university, there was one about the hundreds year war that seemed very much like this, in that it jumped from source to source, saying that "the baron of Derbyshire was actually in Calis when Cercy happened so he couldn't have known this" and such. Though no one e talked about his huge hog. Every king in it could be at least a season of hotd, Aegons conquest would probably be the, most exciting and interesting plus it would show us stuff we'd never seen, a non unified 7 kingdoms.
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Oct 28, 2022 20:36
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Anonymous Zebra posted:Aegon's conquest is written about very much in the way school kids are taught about the Founding Fathers. The dude is presented as a near perfect Chad that no one else lives up to, and I would absolutely love it if a show was made about that time and he is presented as actually a pushover whose actions were directed by his older sister and who was basically cuckolded by his younger sister. Because that's definitely a way to read the dynamics that are only slightly mentioned in the description of his family. Yea that's exactly why I want to see it. He probably was a very good warrior, but they could show that planning was not his strong point but he still took the credit. I mean there good evidence he was a dummy because his son was a complete failure of a king, and then the next king was Maegor, so yea.
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Oct 29, 2022 17:27
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I'd love it if the Jon Snow series is about the Wildlings expanding in the north and discovering something weird up there. It's always been implied the lands of always winter have some mysteries hidden up there but no one could look into it because they'll get got by the Others. Honestly, the stuff i want to see the most after Aemon getting skullfucked by Dark Sister is Cole trying to force the queens forces into an duel and them just peppering him with arrows. Something I do love about Martin is he's not afraid to kill of characters in historically accurate undignified and heroic ways.
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Apr 13, 2023 19:00
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