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Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?

Atrocious Joe posted:

https://twitter.com/TheBuffaloNews/status/1530003013691121664?s=20&t=MLpGt1NU0p4xZH8r_n2i0A

edit: lol someone else posted this in the Epstein thread too. I was wondering if I should have posted it there instead

as society has unravelled at an accelerating rate, the amount of cross-chatter between dday doom/covid/UKRwar/Epstein and any major US event becomes greater


more or less, "the singularity" is a real thing we're headed towards but it's not some glorious utopian AI world, it just means that poo poo has gotten hosed enough that you can pick any CSpam thread at random for your post and it will be relevant.

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Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?

Calibanibal posted:

should I leak the video? I'm leading towards no, because it actually makes the cops seems really cool (they do a bunch of sweet gunkata poses)

are you an actual individual, or a collective? just a fountain of amazing takes, 24/7

if you're not being paid by Jeffrey for this you should form a union

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?
the weirder the story gets and the more that comes out, the closer I get to full Epstein crack/ping and thinking this was a deliberate operation which was set up with, if not the consent of, some amount of active control over the police response

nothing about any of this makes sense and the weirdness here already outweighs the sum total of weirdness around every other mass casualty event in the US that had troubling threads to it. I mean, I guess unless you include 9/11 but lol.

Tatsuta Age posted:

im pretty sure this is the regular amount just more eyes on it, OP

I disagree, I followed the media and conspiracy narratives around Aurora, Newtown and a bunch of other events pretty closely. I could tell you a few weird things about any of those events which are somewhat eyebrow raising, but, again, put all that poo poo in a pile, throw it on a scale, put the single Texas incident on the other side and I think Texas still looks substantially more hosed up.

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?

Atrocious Joe posted:

Media has also been putting out stories about different police forces doing their own thing on the scene. A Border Patrol agent says he got a bunch of different cops together to get their kids out of one of the wings of the school that presumably wasn't near the shooter. Another mother of a child in the school said she was handcuffed by federal marshals and that local police she knew took off the cuffs.

yea so right here, just ignoring all the ifs and maybes -- there has never before been an event like this where parents were handcuffed.

This is a whole new level of hosed up and I think there's something at least somewhat sinister behind it, and not just incompetence. I am not suggesting (or completely ruling out) that it was some kind of state sponsored thing, but what seems a lot more likely to me is some kind of catastrophic cop fuckup, and I think the most likely thing there is one or more kids were killed by cop bullets.

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?

Calibanibal posted:

Okay what are we even upset about at this point

what is there to NOT be upset about on 5/28/22, Calibanibal?

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?

dafuq is even "remastered" about this, it doesn't look any better than the ROM does on a modern emulator

*goes back to playing sonic 2 on phone with Kishi and retroarch*

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?

Mameluke posted:

see these are the pdfs that will secure uvalde PD a budget increase in light of a tragedy that occurred despite documented best practices

it's a small enough town that I wonder if civilian rage against the PD over this is actually going to cause a different outcome

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?

TeenageArchipelago posted:

I saw someone on reddit say that first responders running into the WTC on 9/11 but cops refusing to run into a school to save children showed just how far the social contract has deteriorated, and I think that there's some truth to that, but also I feel like firefighters aren't nearly as big of cowards as cops are
I know that a lot of fire response ends up being roadside gore, but firefighters at a core level are trained to run into lethal situations using gear they know to be insufficient in some cases and time limited in others, with a goal of protecting people and more or less ignoring property. in some cases these are volunteers, professionally the median income is 50k

cops are trained to run into situations that are mostly not that dangerous but in their heads are always almost lethal, using gear they know can maim or kill anyone they encounter, with a goal of protecting capital and more or less ignoring people. these are all professional jobs with relatively light training and a $67k median income


feels like one of these models is more likely to attract samaritans and the other is more likely to attract greedy fucks hungry for power


maybe we need volunteer police forces which are generally unarmed. or, you know, no cops.

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?

30.5 Days posted:

That rate is insane but the crazy thing about it is that since cops shoot each other by accident at a prodigious rate, seems to imply that cops are about as competent with firearms as a 6 year old who literally thinks a gun is a toy.

6 year olds kill other six year olds or themselves



they generally don't gun down someone for being too brown skinned

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?
America has more shootings than McDonald's now

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?
this one looks like an OP to me, OP

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?
on the other hand, there are more American's at McDonalds right now than there are being shot right now


probably? gently caress now I'm not sure.

slava Makdonalʹdsu

KomradeX posted:

So is this the first big thing to disprove their last timeline?

no, their own timeline was the first thing to disprove their timelines and I am not even being ironic or hyperbolic

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?

bedpan posted:

SRO's job isn't to protect the school; SRO is there to send students to jail and write tickets

https://www.texasappleseed.org/sites/default/files/208K-STPP-PipelineReportExecutiveSummary.pdf

it's so hosed up

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?
a friend made this song about his actual experience being on site at school during a lockdown drill

i think it's good and also makes me super loving angry
https://open.spotify.com/album/1hNZJYbMI600ZfmkYB2Yph?si=7MDSq4OSRjCwQgLc56sM2Q

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?

Cabbages and Kings posted:

a friend made this song about his actual experience being on site at school during a lockdown drill

i think it's good and also makes me super loving angry
https://open.spotify.com/album/1hNZJYbMI600ZfmkYB2Yph?si=7MDSq4OSRjCwQgLc56sM2Q

reposting not just to page snipe but b/c I left this looping to help homeboy's spotify metrics in a tiny way but ended up just listening to it in a loop and now I can see the whole thing playing out over and over and I just get angrier every time, that's fantastic :crackping:

"this feels like the wrong way to live" also applies to so many cspam threads

edit: wow the effect really didn't minimize over time at all and I have smoked enough weed that I had to switch over to watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7CYzc1naaw

Cabbages and Kings has issued a correction as of 17:14 on Jun 18, 2022

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?

fosborb posted:

some guy a few months ago in DC fired off 100 rounds from his apartment and wounded 4 random people and then suicided before the cops could reach him. didn't even make the national news without a death. coincidentally, friends of mine found a two bedroom right off the red line for $1800/mo a month or two later :iiam:

was "PIG" still written on the wall in blood like the maybe apocryphal -but-reiterated-in-Rolling-Stone story about Trent Reznor buying the Sharon Tate mansion?

edit: also lol that "$1800 2 bedroom right off the red line" doesn't sound weird to me. I left that area in 2016, guess prices haven't improved!!

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?

mawarannahr posted:

maybe if there was some way to get Havana syndrome involved somehow…

let's goon source the biggest EMF transmitter ever, put it in space, and then use it to redacted

Der Meister posted:

he was an old gambler who lost his life savings I thought

In 2015 it was estimated he'd lost 400k (https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/stephen-paddock-probably-lost-about-404933-gambling-in-2015) however at the time of his death he had assets valued at 1.3m (https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/shootings/assets-of-las-vegas-gunman-valued-at-more-than-1-3m/)

quote:

Las Vegas police have said Paddock had 14 bank accounts. The source of the discrepancy remains unclear.

Police also have said Paddock spent the last two years of his life spending most of the more than $2 million he once had on hand. Most of it went to casinos, credit card companies, firearms purchases and his girlfriend, Marilou Danley.

Danley received three separate transfers from Paddock in September that totaled $150,000, police have said.

Also he had probably done dry runs or considered other venues for a hot run:
(https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/05/las-vegas-gunman-booked-other-rooms-stephen-paddock)

So -- someone slowly losing it all and unravelling as a result? Or, someone who knows they are on a ticking clock to perform an op, who is just spending everything they have (including lots of money from "unknown sources") in the meantime? I have no idea, but the second one sounds like the plot to Looper a bit and also seems entirely believable to me. You hardly need compliancy of "the US government" to pull of something like this; you just need a few spooks or ex spooks with a pile of dark money and some weird loving agenda.

I am pretty agnostic as to whether the Vegas shooting was an op of some kind that involved other people, or not, and I don't expect to ever know the answer to that. If I had lost a friend or family member in the shootings, the question would likely eat at me incessantly.

Cabbages and Kings has issued a correction as of 14:32 on Jul 6, 2022

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?

someusername posted:

i know this is definitely a dumb question, where is this "has been hospitalized for mental health" database, exactly?

or is it more like, you apply for a (handgun only?) license and then someone does a sweeping search of hospital records?

and this has never applied to long guns, or...?

i checked in voluntarily for 3 days 7 years ago because i had a godawful reaction to abilify and needed to cool off, so now I can't get a pew-pew?

when you go to buy a gun you need to do two things: one is fill out a form which among other things I believe includes an attestation that you have never been "involuntarily committed or legally determined to be incompetant".

The second thing is that the gun store takes your ID, scans it, takes the form you filled out, and calls into an FBI database called NICS. If NICS flags you as persona non grata, they will not sell you a gun.

Reasons for NICS determining you are not eligible to own a gun include:

The loving Government posted:

Categories of disqualifying records include:

persons with convictions for felonies punishable by a term of imprisonment exceeding one year and misdemeanors punishable by a term of imprisonment of more than two years
fugitives from justice
 unlawful users of controlled substances
 persons adjudicated mentally defective, found not guilty by reason of insanity, or involuntarily committed to a mental health institution
 illegal or unlawful aliens
 persons dishonorably discharged from the
military
 persons who have renounced their U.S.
citizenship
 subjects of protection orders
 persons convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence
 persons under indictment or information for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year.

A 3 day voluntary stay in the hospital is unlikely to be a problem.

edit: for FUCKS sake did I just give someone advice on buying a gun in the loving mass shootings thread? What the gently caress is wrong with me, what the gently caress is wrong with this demon cracker nation

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?

Groovelord Neato posted:

What the gently caress would be the point of Las Vegas being an op? Wanted to ban bump stocks that badly? We let 20 first graders get murdered we aren't doing jack poo poo.

The material effect of any one of these events is never significant and has no impact on policy that I can discern.

The net impact of all of these events is a general contribution to destabilization of the republic, polarization along partisan lines, public anxiety which swells in predictable waves and can be manipulated through media, and shaking faith in institutions to protect us.

If one is inclined to believe a certain set of theories that arise, more or less, out of the existence of MKULTRA and related programs and the likelihood that these programs continued long beyond where the declassified public records that can be found with FOIA start, then it's pretty easy to start inventing reasons that such acts could have happened as a result of either direct state action or groups of spooks trying to steer public anxiety.

The flipside is that, based on 41 years of living here, many people are loving assholes and like 2/3 of that group seems to be armed to the loving teeth. So, what's more likely, the state secretly and covertly setting up some number of these events or explicitly allowing them to occur with foresight and knowledge -- or, the state simply being a place that's full of rear end in a top hat lunatics with guns, and periodically capitalizing on it when one of them decides to go shoot up some public space?

I don't actually know but the second thing doesn't involve any real spoopyness and also seems like a thing that's prone to just happen with frequency as a nation full of armed idiots gets increasingly squeezed for material goods.

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?

Complications posted:

the supreme court just ruled that the right to bear arms can't be infringed in public places so none of those signs are constitutional now

it's a lovely opinion that's going to make it harder for states to regulate guns, but this is a misrepresentation. It looks to me like they are telling NYS (and implicitly everywhere else), that "shall issue" permits are the law of the land. That is, this ruling does not prevent NYS from requiring permits to own or carry pistols. It does prevent NYS from saying "if you want to carry a gun you need to provide a good reason for why which is then approved by the state", and flips the onus around to "if the state wants to prevent you from carrying a gun, then the state must demonstrate a good reason why you are not entitled to do so".

Yes, lovely, very very very loving far from saying "gun free zones in schools are now illegal". In fact, NYC is at least making noise about just designating the entire loving city as a gun-free zone (https://www.thecity.nyc/2022/6/23/23180506/could-all-new-york-city-designated-gun-free-zone) -- the current SCOTUS would obviously strike that down, but we'd find out what the new limits in the new normal are.

Groovelord Neato posted:

3 percent of American adults own half the guns.

this is true, but also seems like mostly a thief magnet since even Paddock couldn't use more than 1-2 weapons at a time. Also, while a small number of people have a lot of the guns, if you have 3 neighbors, statistically 1-2 of them are armed


https://www.statista.com/statistics/249740/percentage-of-households-in-the-united-states-owning-a-firearm/
I think this is an underestimate because of the number of paranoiac gun owners who would immediately slam the phone down if some surveyor asked them about weapons.

Dustcat posted:

i don't understand why the cia would need to run ops to do mass shootings in america, we already have them

and if you're looking for evidence of mind control, you don't need to dig up shadowy cia conspiracies, just check out what's playing on OANN

This is where Occam tends to get me, but also the CIA etc have done some really gross poo poo and if there were 1-2 mass casualty events over the years that had the stink of the MIC on them somewhere it wouldn't meaningfully change my world view.

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?

Groovelord Neato posted:

Why did Adam Lanza murder 20 first graders.

good question. Also why was there some dude in camo and black gear behind the school who was initially arrested and then let go and no information was ever released on who he was or why?

It's certainly possible, perhaps likely, that it's a dumb coincidence of some kind but the initial reporting was along these lines:

quote:

A man with a gun who was spotted in the woods near the school on the day of the incident was an off-duty tactical squad police officer from another town, according to the source.

The information was attributed to “a reliable local law enforcement source.” The only links that mention this information all refer back to the original Newtown Bee article

That Newton Bee article has been scrubbed, so, all we have is wordpress poo poo saying it existed!

I do remember at the time thinking "why the gently caress was there an off-duty tactical officer in gear behind the school before the shooting? That's kinda weird".

Not any weirder than the fact that a couple people from the Boston Marathon bombing told the media that LEO was conducting a "bomb drill" the day of the event

quote:

"At the starting line this morning, they had bomb sniffing dogs and the bomb squad out there," he said. "They kept announcing to runners not to be alarmed, that they were running a training exercise."

He added, "I've run a lot of races like this one, but I never saw bomb dogs at the starting line of any running event. It led me to believe that something like (a bomb detonation) might have happened."
https://www.al.com/live/2013/04/boston_marathon_explosion_univ.html

There's weird poo poo around most events if you start digging and losing your sense of incredulousness because the world is a weird, inexplicable place.

Cabbages and Kings has issued a correction as of 16:19 on Jul 6, 2022

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?

Calibanibal posted:

the issue is that probably half of mass shootings are ops and the other half are crazy lone wolfs. It can be difficult to tell them apart without doing alot of research

Mass shootings are more american than psyops now!!

make sure your research avoids facebook and sticks to reliable places like abovetopsecret and godlikeproductions. MEDIA LITERACY, PEOPLE!

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?

Benagain posted:

"never trust cops," I tell myself as I rely on an anonymous but 'reliable' law enforcement source from a newspaper that nuked the article once they figured out it was probably complete horseshit.

:hmmyes:


Cabbages and Kings posted:

There's weird poo poo around most events if you start digging and losing your sense of incredulousness because the world is a weird, inexplicable place.


Cabbages and Kings posted:

[Lone wolves doing murdersprees] is where Occam tends to get me, but also the CIA etc have done some really gross poo poo and if there were 1-2 mass casualty events over the years that had the stink of the MIC on them somewhere it wouldn't meaningfully change my world view.

I don't disagree with you, I do not believe these events were state sponsored, and to the extent coverups have been involved, I believe Columbine shows us the playbook for why that is: when law enforcement gets involved during/after a ton of people, especially kids, get killed, then every action they take will be called into question and cops constantly gently caress poo poo up or do dumb poo poo or say racist poo poo over the radio, and also are willing to commit crimes to cover up basically meaningless events like "said the n-word during a mass shooting" which, while lovely, is unlikely to have impacted the material outcome.

However, just because these events are not (likely) some kind of operation, doesn't mean the media narratives around them are at all trustworthy or reliable. They are almost always cop-sympathetic etc, and even when they take a critical view, they do so gingerly and in a way that doesn't cause changes. I mean for fucks sake look at Uvalde which started this thread (or did it? too many shootings lately to say!)


ikanreed posted:

I swear to God I saw someone post "cspam doesn't do the false flag thing" recently.

Lol.

did you notice who made that particular post, this is relevant to interpreting its intent, I believe? guessing not, pretty good username/post combo there

also whoever posted that deffo does not read of all of cspam because i know there's at least one thread which does not believe that Epstein killed himself :colbert:

Cabbages and Kings has issued a correction as of 16:33 on Jul 6, 2022

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?

Pepe Silvia Browne posted:

See you're not saying anything that's incorrect, but grouping every mass shooting together and refusing to see anything that contradicts that narrative is just as pigheaded as thinking every single one was conducted by "the CIA"

IMO we still have no real clue if JFK got done by the mafia, the MIC, rogue MIC in conjuction with the mafia, or even (and, to me, most ridiculous) with LBJ's explicit approval to derail the investigations into LBJ which vanished the second Oswald or whoever took a shot.

So, we have not much insight into the highest profile killing of the last century, meanwhile the intel agencies have done nothing but get spookier and more compartmentalized, and motherfuckers be thinking we'll ever get the full story on literally anything that has a substantial MIC fingerprint on it? :laugh:

It would take a lot to make me think the MIC has much interest in something as low profile as Uvalde, and also that really looks like a bunch of dumb loving incompetent cops that didn't need some kind of support from above to make a horrible situation worse. On the other hand, that's what I've been coddled to believe by the information that's available. The body cam footage etc is still being blocked.

I don't think this event was an "op" but I think what's happening now is absolutely a coverup of something. The general pettiness of cops makes me think it could be well, well short of "actually the cops set the shooter up with gear".

Cabbages and Kings has issued a correction as of 16:38 on Jul 6, 2022

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?
also, w/r/t Highland, the media seems to be doing the dumb bad loving thing of publishing human interest articles about the troubled shooter and his motivations and blasting his loving picture everywhere, despite organizations which study this suggesting a completely loving different handling:

quote:

Lankford also studied 24 mass shooters who openly admitted they wanted fame or contacted the media directly to get it.[7] Studies of mass shooters that are based on available documentation and interviews found that many had narcissistic personalities that crave fame and attention;[16] narcissistic personality disorder is often not considered a mental illness.

The American Psychological Association recommends that mass media deny shooters the fame they desire by not sharing so many details about them and instead direct their attention to the victims and their stories. Campaigns like Don’t Name Them (a campaign of the FBI and Texas State University) and No Notoriety (created by a couple in honor of their son who died in the Colorado movie theater shooting) urge the media to cover tragic incidents without naming the shooters or describing their lives or motivations. By reducing the fame and attention that mass shooters receive, there will be fewer obsessive fans that become copycat shooters. This strategy has already been shown to be effective regarding teen suicides: Less media coverage has resulted in fewer copycats.[9]

This is hardly the only organization saying this and at this point I think there's enough hard data on how media narratives can spur on further violence, that when media chooses to engage in narratives which do just that, they are fuckin complicit.

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?

Frosted Flake posted:

I thought the copycat thing was largely discredited?

news to me but also wouldn't surprise me since my premise here was "the media narratives around these events are always bad and should be regarded with suspicion"

got any interesting relevant links?

Pontificating rear end posted:

stop talking about ops you literal loving schizos

people love to shoot people especially in this country and there doesnt need to be some cracked out reason other than typical malice

if the police do dumb illegal poo poo in response to these events and then cover it up, as has happened in, minimally, two well documented incidents, it's very much an "operation" and you don't have to be a schizo to think so. I think you may need to have some mental health issues to generally trust the cops in any situation, though!

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?

Pontificating rear end posted:

cops lie and destroy evidence constantly to cover up their INCOMPETANCE
they are incapable of higher-level thinking

Yes, this was my basic takeaway from Columbine as well as whatever the gently caress is going on in Uvalde.

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?

indigi posted:

mass shootings are not an op but we can have fun arguing about what motivations for them would be

unaddressed long term unhappiness combined with a generally degrading public sphere, lack of trust in institutions, general challenge to the tried-and-tired stereotypes of "masculinity" and "power"

all happening inside a country which is experiencing rapid wealth concentration at the top at the expense of everyone else, but where high powered rifles are still easily available on credit in any town with more than about 5000 people in it

there I solved it and that just seems sad, not fun

Hooplah posted:

it's weird to me how many mass casualty event perpetrators were "known to law enforcement" beforehand

conspiracy isn't a dirty word and screaming about how believing in anything but the gross incompetence of authority is mental illness is doing the lib media's job for them. it's pure tribalism

In a bunch of cases (like Highland!) they were "known to police" specifically because they had done violent awful poo poo which in a reasonable world would have put them under suspicion that would prevent gun ownership, but we don't live in that world so it's just "yea the cops knew that guy was kinda a psycho, and then he got a gun and killed 20 people"

also I am not just calling authority incompetent, I am calling them, at best, criminally negligent and at worst directly liable for some amount of deaths in some of these events where the response was entirely hosed up.

Conspiracy is the cleanest of clean words, it just means "more than one person agreeing implicitly or explicitly to commit a crime or series of crimes", and that clearly happens all the time. I personally am pretty open to the existence of many conspiracies that involve up to 5-6 people, and am loving dismal on the idea you could pull off a massive conspiracy that required the cooperation of hundreds of people knowingly, unless they all suicided at the end or something. Someone would, eventually, say something.

Cabbages and Kings has issued a correction as of 17:21 on Jul 6, 2022

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?
look can we all just take a minute to appreciate the fact that we're arguing some kinda pedantic poo poo in this thread?

It's good because it means there hasn't been a mass shooting in America today. Yet.

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?

the bitcoin of weed posted:

the only op is that half the time these right wing creeps have been monitored for the FBI for years and still usually manage to flawlessly execute their mass shooter plans. you can debate whether that's because the feds think its good and are allowing it or because the structure of reactionary law enforcement prevents anyone from acting until after people are already dying but it's clear they're not helping in any way

one of my friends once had a neighbor call them to report they were moving lots of "suspicious boxes" around. They were doing aerospace work, and may have been lugging components to and from their car.

They got a visit from a cop plus an FBI agent, who just told them that the report had been made and asked zero questions whatsoever about the reloading bench, ammo-in-process, and rack of semiautomatic rifles and pistols in clear view in the house, and there was no followup.

I believe they simply do not actually care, and also think that bothering white people about their weapons might cause them career jeopardy of some kind.

I don't think this person should have been seriously interrogated or anything; they had ID, a clear explanation for their work, etc. At the same time, if you are responding to a "suspicious person" call and see an assload of guns and don't even ask about that it feels to me like maybe you are not doing your job as thoroughly as you should be?

Oglethorpe posted:

saw a bunch of new posts and thought there was a new shooting but nope just epstein thread poo poo

yes and as I said above that's the good case so come crack a beer with us, bdOglethorpe bdFriend.

edit: pssssh CSPAM should have put tradmark protection on `schizoposting` years ago. gently caress.

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?

Frosted Flake posted:

Mass Shootings: The Role of the Media in Promoting Generalized Imitation

“Recently a “contagion” effect has been suggested wherein the occurrence of one mass shooting increases the likelihood of another mass shooting occurring in the near future. Although contagion is a convenient metaphor used to describe the temporal spread of a behavior, it does not explain how the behavior spreads. Generalized imitation is proposed as a better model to explain how one person’s behavior can influence another person to engage in similar behavior.”

I’m not sure what to make of it. It seems to be saying it doesn’t spread like a contagion but maybe provides a template?

:thunk:
This is interesting and also seems to want to hedge its bets, but the Conclusions section unedited is

quote:

A mass shooting is a complex and destructive act that occurs as a result of many factors. One factor that is relevant to the spread of mass shootings and other “contagious” behaviors is generalized imitation. In instances of mass shootings, the media appear largely responsible for providing the model to imitate. Although there are a variety of strategies that could function in tandem to alter the likelihood of a mass shooting, changing the way the media report mass shootings is one important step in preventing and reducing imitation of these acts. Furthermore, it is likely that media-prompted imitation extends beyond mass shootings. A media effect has been shown with suicide, is implied in mass shootings, and may play a role in other extreme events such as home-grown terrorism and racially motivated crimes.

The responsibility for these acts does not reside with the media, but the media are an important vector for the spread of such behaviors. Changing the way in which the media report a mass shooting could be difficult given that sensationalizing a tragic event brings in both viewers and revenue, which is a powerful incentive. In addition, the continual creation and expansion of social and new media platforms may make change more difficult because, in these instances, individuals rather than larger corporate entities develop and disseminate media. Given the numerous media outlets that exist and the various motivations behind the posting of content, it is unlikely that the reforms suggested here could be effectively mandated.

However, public pressure could be exerted on the various media outlets and individual contributors to change their reporting tactics. In the case of new and social media, this same pressure could influence the various platforms to provide guidelines regarding uploaded content related to a mass shooting. The first step toward building this public pressure is to make the general public aware of the link between the media and generalized imitation, as well as the role the media play in unknowingly perpetuating acts of violence.

I don't think this fundamentally undermines my own premise, and if anything seems to be at least open to the possibility that changing media narratives would effect outcomes, but complicating this is both the difficulty of actually doing so, combined with the spread of social media which is harder or impossible to control (and does appear to have been a significant factor in Buffalo, Uvalde, Highland murder sprees).

Der Meister posted:

a country full of blood lust and despair surrounded by weapons, really don’t know how to fix this folks

this sounds like one of those situations where at some point thermodynamics just kicks in and solves it? Gods help those of us who live here, of course.

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?

Groovelord Neato posted:

Saw libs dogpiling a few people posting about how the guy wasn't really a Trump supporter and how this poo poo doesn't fit inside a neat partisan box and is way weirder.

why the gently caress does anyone assume politics have to have anything to do with poo poo like this? People commit murder on small and large scale all the time for apolitical reasons.

to commit a mass killing you need to be broken enough in the head to view causing as much death and pain as possible as both desirable, and as a physics problem with no morality attached, and smart enough to understand how frail humans actually are and that this is a pretty simple problem when viewed through this lens. That is it. That's the only requirement. You don't need any particular belief or diagnosis.

once your brain is broken to that point, you're a menace to society, and the things that break people to that degree needn't be political, and even if they are actually arising from some material cause that has a political reality underlaying it, the brokebrained killer may not at all parse the connection between the politics and their material state, or, if they do, they may make completely wrong inferences and come to conclusions that are "political" but completely detached from reality.

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?

indigi posted:

trying to imagine the kind of family that raises children who sob inconsolably for hours because a parade was canceled

in our house if you don't attend parades with Good, Standing Attention each summer, you lose tv privs all year

I don't give a gently caress if it was cancelled, not my problem, try again next year

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?

indigi posted:

questions

Clearly if the police are summoned to the home of someone believed to be engaging in "suspicious activity" and the first thing they see upon opening the door is a rack of firearms and a reloading bench and a bunch of black powder, they should just act the same as if it's a tea set and not acknowledge it at all because tea sets and racks of weapons and black powder are equally legal and therefore subject to the same kind of scrutiny. I guess.

I'm not gonna bother arguing this because the person who you're responding to here is TenementFunster, and the person who this happened to is a TFR goon who thought the cops were mildly negligent in their questioning, so there's just layers of humor for me here and I am gonna drop it now.

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?

TenementFunster posted:

i agree that all TFR posters should be dragged off by the NKVD, but come on, what question do you believe the cops should have asked? gimme one or two examples of what you think would be good police work here.

just because your nosey shithead neighbor drops a dime on you to the FBI doesn’t mean you have to defend every item in your home from police scrutiny.

No comment on TFR posters, uh, there was A Time In My Life....

as for my friend's situation, both he and I thought it would have been entirely reasonable to say something like "firearms enthusiast, eh?" given the nature of the reason they were visiting him in the first place. He would have correctly said "er, am I being cited for anything, officer?" in response, but there are stories all the time about people running their mouths way more than they should to the cops to their own detriment. Sometimes these are dark skinned people who say something innocuous and get extrajudicially killed for it, hence "never talk to cops". Sometimes people say absolutely dumb poo poo and just admit to felonies or planning violent acts / etc.

It is less that I think the cops could/should have "done something", than that, if the police are summoned to a "suspicious person" and then that person is instantly shown to have a small armory, I think it's reasonable to ask what that's all about even though the only people who are going to say "oh that's for the revolution I am starting" are the dumbest of the dumb. Whether the events as they happened warranted a stop at all in this case, I am agnostic about.

Didn't expect to derail this much; it was just an obvious case of cops completely ignoring a white guy's guns, and, further, does anyone think this story plays out the same way if friendo is a PoC? Obviously not, so, it's "white person invisible gun syndrome" which dovetails into the original post where I mentioned this, which is that yes, many people are "known to law enforcement" and that doesn't mean poo poo, either from the point of view of "that person is actually dangerous!", or, if the person is actually dangerous, "that person will be prevented from doing something awful, because they are known to the cops".

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?
Well, I just found the gun law version of a "hotdogs are sandwiches" argument:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/17/us/politics/senate-guns-boyfriend-loophole.html

quote:

WASHINGTON — Among the sticking points standing in the way of a final deal on what could be the first significant bipartisan gun safety legislation in decades is an age-old question: How do you define a boyfriend?

The question may sound frivolous, but for a small group of Republicans and Democrats who are pressing to translate a hard-won compromise on guns into legislation that can draw 60 votes in the Senate, it is vital. And for millions of women who have been threatened with a firearm by an intimate partner, it is deadly serious.

Since this is the US legal framework, I will assume the decision is "he counts as a boyfriend until he shoots you with a gun, at which point he becomes a deputized marshal with qualified immunity"

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?

TenementFunster posted:

that’s a lot of typing to avoid admitting i was right. get well soon.

You? no, you're very wrong on this, and I am feeling fine, thanks <3

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?

Pepe Silvia Browne posted:

Rich people love to gently caress kids and cover it up for each other. Cops love allowing people to get shot up and then ordering grubhub for the killer, as long as he is white. And as long as the rich people keep buying the cops new tanks to watch shootings happen from and the cops keep protecting the rich people's pedophile dungeons, this will be true.

none of this requires Eyes Wide Shut grade collaboration

it just requires a justice dept that's reluctant to put effort or money into pursuing whatever the gently caress the elite do

people (justifyably) get super worked up about child abuse but it's probably only like 10% of the elite that are actual pedophiles and abuse children specifically vs the 90% who aren't into kids but still like to treat the women (or men) they are "attracted" to like the brat Lannigan teen king in GoT treated prostitutes

Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?

this is now in the rotation as an ad banner linking to this thread



inshallah

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Cabbages and Kings
Aug 25, 2004


Shall we be trotting home again?

Dreylad posted:

jesus that is a dark thread title suggestion but what the hell

technically accurate


this is a text forum



i use lynx

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