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Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001


I haven't found any of the orange tier artifacts. Are they just random finds in the bazaar (I missed Chapter 9 or 10's because I'm dumb and they really should add some flashing lights to the tent)?

I gave Bridget's squad the item that gives the leader an extra action but reduces the damage of everyone else by 25%. Murder mom and her kids.

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Levantine
Feb 14, 2005

GUNDAM!!!


I figured out where my Medals of Valor were coming for on Seizure - once you cap Faction XP, the bar only takes like 65 to fill so every time you do, you get another Medal. It's making it a lot easier to level up Leadership for units like Beatrix

edit: the number seems to go up each time but slowly.

Levantine fucked around with this message at 12:25 on Jun 15, 2022

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001


Wonder what the best strat for chapter 12 is -- I almost made it to 4 turns even caught way out of position going for those chests, but sadly too many of my units got smoked on the first turn to really put up much of a decent retreat.

deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

On a planet that increasingly resembles one huge Maximum Security prison, the only intelligent choice is to plan a jail break.



I finally caught up to where I was originally (chapter 11) with my re-started save where I'm being a lot more choosey about what units I hire and use, and I'm focusing on capping all points with low-leadership leaders to boost them up. It looks like the leadership gain from capping points is minimal at best, and probably roughly the same overall gain as participating in combat.

So some points of reference:
Sibyl
First save where I rarely used her to cap points and she was mostly just an out of combat healer who fought sometimes
Level 11, 46 leadership (though tbf I think I fed her a couple LDR-boosting items on this save so her base was probably 42-44)

Second save where she spent virtually all of every mission she was in running around capturing points:
Level 12, 47 leadership

Barnabas
First save where he capped tons of points and did a lot of combat and was just one of like 3 real workhorse squads:
Level 21, 52 Leadership

Second save where he has been one of my main combat units but has not capped a single point:
Level 21, 52 Leadership


That being said, I'm finding the game absurdly easier than it was before because I have clear ideas for what each squad is there for and I put them to work at it right away instead of figuring it out on the fly. I've been finishing a lot of missions within like half their par turn count for S Rank and side objectives that were difficult for me before are super easy now (like preventing soldiers from reaching the allied base in Chapter 10, which was made easier by the patch but also now since I knew what Barnabas is for I just rushed him down south to help with the bridge guards and they were both left standing). And my squads are overall much more powerful due to knowing to look out for specific elements for whatever class/squad gimmick (all those Water Paladins kinda own in a squad with the crown that converts MAG to STR)


The only thing I"m not sure about yet is traits, I have choice paralysis when it comes to using any of my trait books because I don't know what each squad is going to be dedicated to late-game yet and I don't want to waste trait books/slots by using them frivilously now :(

deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Jun 15, 2022

Snooze Cruise
Feb 16, 2013

look-
a post,


The learnable trait is always replaceable so you are not locked in, so perfectly fine to use like your common books freely and then later if there is something that makes more sense for that unit pop it in.

Yeah force surrenders are suppose to be a big thing about LDR gain, one of the devs was saying the reason why sybil tends to lag behind is her default squad is not really good for getting force surrenders going.

Bussamove
Feb 25, 2006



I just got to chapter 12 but Iím thinking about restarting and being a little more careful with my unitsó I spent early game trying to make a small handful of non-story/unique merc lead units work and I feel like thatís making me drag behind coupled with not paying attention to affinities until recently and just using whatever I happened to recruit.

Itís that or put the game on the back burner until repeatable maps get added in and then probably restart anyway. :v:

Levantine
Feb 14, 2005

GUNDAM!!!


deep dish peat moss posted:

I finally caught up to where I was originally (chapter 11) with my re-started save where I'm being a lot more choosey about what units I hire and use, and I'm focusing on capping all points with low-leadership leaders to boost them up. It looks like the leadership gain from capping points is minimal at best, and probably roughly the same overall gain as participating in combat.

So some points of reference:
Sibyl
First save where I rarely used her to cap points and she was mostly just an out of combat healer who fought sometimes
Level 11, 46 leadership (though tbf I think I fed her a couple LDR-boosting items on this save so her base was probably 42-44)

Second save where she spent virtually all of every mission she was in running around capturing points:
Level 12, 47 leadership

Barnabas
First save where he capped tons of points and did a lot of combat and was just one of like 3 real workhorse squads:
Level 21, 52 Leadership

Second save where he has been one of my main combat units but has not capped a single point:
Level 21, 52 Leadership


That being said, I'm finding the game absurdly easier than it was before because I have clear ideas for what each squad is there for and I put them to work at it right away instead of figuring it out on the fly. I've been finishing a lot of missions within like half their par turn count for S Rank and side objectives that were difficult for me before are super easy now (like preventing soldiers from reaching the allied base in Chapter 10, which was made easier by the patch but also now since I knew what Barnabas is for I just rushed him down south to help with the bridge guards and they were both left standing). And my squads are overall much more powerful due to knowing to look out for specific elements for whatever class/squad gimmick (all those Water Paladins kinda own in a squad with the crown that converts MAG to STR)


The only thing I"m not sure about yet is traits, I have choice paralysis when it comes to using any of my trait books because I don't know what each squad is going to be dedicated to late-game yet and I don't want to waste trait books/slots by using them frivilously now :(

I think some units don't get much leadership no matter what. Sybil and Jules always were that way for me, as well as Beatrix. She got fed all my Medals of Valor and now is rocking two dragon riders, two Templars and a Zweihander in front. She has the item to make her go first on defense and frankly not much can touch her.

deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

On a planet that increasingly resembles one huge Maximum Security prison, the only intelligent choice is to plan a jail break.



It would be cool if you could like, disable deployment slots to gain capacity bonuses to other squads. It's kind of a struggle keeping everyone leveled up if you deploy the max number of squads every time so I end up having a few squads that are literally just a couple tanks and a healer and a Noisy Cricket equipped to squeeze some exp out of eating up enemy archer fire (because they're always going to shoot at that 3-person squad that can't retaliate and has a cricket if they can). If I could disable them to make my other squads bigger I totally would :kiddo:

Naramyth
Jan 22, 2009

Australia cares about cunts. Including this one.

My small squads are all just objective doers and out of combat healers. I have a bunch of 1 healer 3 bow nobodies that grab chests and heal the real doom stack squads

Levantine
Feb 14, 2005

GUNDAM!!!


Naramyth posted:

My small squads are all just objective doers and out of combat healers. I have a bunch of 1 healer 3 bow nobodies that grab chests and heal the real doom stack squads

The nice thing about these squads is the units will gain Loyalty and make it easier to cram them into other squads when you're filling out ranks mid-late game.

I'm at what I think is the final mission and I think I'm bugged. Devoa got another class promotion but he no longer can heal/revive. Kind of a pain given how hard enemies hit. That said, I got Zelos back as his Black Dragon rider form and stuck him into Devoa's group. It's absolutely trivial to force surrender every single squad that can be surrendered now.

A new game plus would be fun I think once they expand the game a bit.

edit: Beat the game at about 33 hours. Good game that will be great after some polish. I think the dev has indicated adding more side missions and there really needs to be a story mission detailing Devoa's resurrection/return. The Hand of Zanatus mission was neat but unnecessary and some more connective tissue for events like Lysander's betrayal would be nice too.

By the end I had 12 squads ranging from "Will Surrender/Obliterate an entire group in one attack" to "Eh, they get the job done". Archer groups feel very powerful in the endgame if you can protect them. Jules ended up leading a squad of 7 additional bowmen and 1 Templar to attack from range and either cripple a unit or delete it entirely. Never did find a use for cannons given their slow movement and inability to counterattack though. Guns remained good until the end.

It's definitely Dancing Dragon's best game to date and I hope they do more in this vein.

Levantine fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Jun 15, 2022

babypolis
Nov 4, 2009

It's a hogspiracy


Dreylad posted:

Wonder what the best strat for chapter 12 is -- I almost made it to 4 turns even caught way out of position going for those chests, but sadly too many of my units got smoked on the first turn to really put up much of a decent retreat.

All of your units are going to be deleted super fast no matter what. I think the only sensible strat is to stick Lindle in the base with the tankiest, healiest squad you can build

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d'être is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

babypolis posted:

All of your units are going to be deleted super fast no matter what. I think the only sensible strat is to stick Lindle in the base with the tankiest, healiest squad you can build

Probably the best way I've theorycrafted is building an incredibly defensive squad with a frontline of the shield guys who block guns and backline of Valkyries/Paladins with no 2+ range attackers. Whittle down some of the early weaker squads until they're like one single Horse Archer and let them surround you at the base. Make sure you have the base defense and healing upgrades.

Then slowly funnel in the OP gun squads and have them break on your squad.

Levantine
Feb 14, 2005

GUNDAM!!!


Zore posted:

Probably the best way I've theorycrafted is building an incredibly defensive squad with a frontline of the shield guys who block guns and backline of Valkyries/Paladins with no 2+ range attackers. Whittle down some of the early weaker squads until they're like one single Horse Archer and let them surround you at the base. Make sure you have the base defense and healing upgrades.

Then slowly funnel in the OP gun squads and have them break on your squad.

Yeah I think you'd need the Artifacts that reduce gun damage, the one that makes you always go first on defense and maybe the one that decreases damage to the front line or increases damage on defense. Cannons can't counter attack so there's that too. I think if you had some decent archer squads you could soften them up but at that stage of the game those units are SO strong. My lategame archer squads would decimate them but you don't have those options early on.

I have some ideas and I may give it a try on another playthrough down the road after some patches. I beat the game on Warlord but totally ignored some of the extra objectives like that and the kids (though I did surrender every unit on stage 27).

Gyoru
Jul 13, 2004




Alamoduh posted:

The best artifact I found is one that lets you attack first on defense, so if you have an all-mage squad with Beatrix, you could kill an unlimited number of units per turn.

This game is great, and I was looking for more games like it to play. I havenít played Langrissser, but $50 seems high for a port of an old game. Is it worth it?

Wait for a sale on the Langrisser 1+2 pack because the overall quality of the remaster is low budget
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1060220/Langrisser_I__II/

Brigandine - combat is slower paced because units are bulkier and more map traversal
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1843940/Brigandine_The_Legend_of_Runersia/

Lost Technology - UI is kind of impenetrable
https://store.steampowered.com/app/420520/Lost_Technology/

Snooze Cruise
Feb 16, 2013

look-
a post,


oh dang i haven't heard of lost technology, it looks cool
e: so its basically brigandine but battles are rts... huh

Snooze Cruise fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Jun 16, 2022

Play
Apr 25, 2006

So I roll with the rolling thunder
And I howl with the howling wind
And I drift downstream
For as long as it takes
To get up and around the bend


Zore posted:

I do need some more assassins for Raskuja, I really like how Stefan's squad is working out. Abigayle is like one dragon away from being what I think is the strongest Alpha strike squad in the game which is gonna rule.

My Stefan sucks, not sure why. He can do some damage but against armored targets his guys and him are weak. Him, the beast guy, the girl you rescue from the ship, and my crappy random groups basically can only do mop up duty. The good ones are Diana, who is essentially completely unstoppable and never loses a single squad member with maxed out lady paladins and a maxed healer; Devoa, who rocks some custom mercenaries with knights and big shield guys on the front row plus a dragon; Abygale, with some good units and her dragon, plus Barnaby's cavalry charges (and the cool ability to move after attacking, letting me attack a castle protecting unit twice), plus Lysander isn't bad. They're the only ones who can reliably take on strong squads, the others are liable to get completely destroyed with one wrong move, including Jules and Sybil.

Bussamove posted:

Got the climbing gear artifact last night and stuck it on Raskujaís squad of assassins and skirmishers and my god no archer is safe.

Yeah I absolutely love that artifact. You can prevent so much damage from putting it on a few of your better squads and letting them scale a wall and absolutely mash those annoying ranged units

Play fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Jun 16, 2022

deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

On a planet that increasingly resembles one huge Maximum Security prison, the only intelligent choice is to plan a jail break.



Make sure the units you're using are actually up to current level. I realized at some point I had stuffed a bunch of level 4-5 units that I hired early on into squads formed later on around level ~12+ leaders. You can always hire basic recruits at a higher level than previous chapters if you made the same mistake I did.

But yeah, even still - pretty much any squad whose LDR can't support 5-6+ troops seems to just always be falling behind in battle

Nick Buntline
Dec 20, 2007
Doesn't know the impossible.



Dreylad posted:

Wonder what the best strat for chapter 12 is -- I almost made it to 4 turns even caught way out of position going for those chests, but sadly too many of my units got smoked on the first turn to really put up much of a decent retreat.

Managed to survive the whole 6 turns on my own attempt - things that I think helped were:

- Having the units that went out for the chests swing down to try take out some of the siege cannon units once they spawn. They're the real threat IMO, since they've got the upgrade to range that gives them 3 base/4 on walls, and the map "helpfully" has the internal walls for them to get range on the main chokepoint, and I don't think any unit you can build can survive fire from all 36 of them. Getting rid of as many of those as fast as you can seems key.

- Having them go after the ones on the left side specifically, since the enemy units appear to activate from right to left, so you can also pull a large portion of the guns/cannons from the right to waste turns chasing them outside instead of storming the fort.

- Having horse archer units on the walls to take out siege cannons as they approach; nothing you have can outrange them, so hit and away's the only way to have an archer unit deal damage and not be immediately murdered on the enemy turn.

- Having the tank units holding the line just do nothing but heal; you want to stonewall the knight units as much as possible, because once the gun units start attacking things are going to start falling apart. I had the Sentinel mercenary here who was very helpful - the low threat unit with him and a healer attracted and tanked a ton of siege cannon fire to keep the other units in the line from dying too quickly.

Even then, it was down to the wire with the MC's unit alone on the fort square getting pounded by the surviving cannons, but I made it, and probably could have survived more easily with a set plan instead of just trying to see what was helpful. I have zero idea how you're supposed to get the achievement for killing the entire enemy army (especially in the time limit that the survive timer would represent), but apparently someone has? Those people are terrifying.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters


So how does Force Surrender work exactly. Am I supposed to use it when a squad is already weak or morale or does using it on a squad that I am likely to severely wound but not kill do the trick?

Alard
Sep 4, 2011



Captain Oblivious posted:

So how does Force Surrender work exactly. Am I supposed to use it when a squad is already weak or morale or does using it on a squad that I am likely to severely wound but not kill do the trick?

Force Surrender will first do a roll vs their Morale to determine if they surrender. If that fails you enter battle with the opposing side going first and your units only able to get one round of attacks not counting free actions, during this any enemy unit you reduce to zero HP counts as surrendered. You can check the probability of the surrender for free so if it says Max just go for it. Otherwise you'd generally use it against weakened squads you don't feel pose a significant risk, though as your units get stronger and your squads start getting really strong you'll feel comfortable trying to Force Surrender squads from full with murder squads.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters


Alard posted:

Force Surrender will first do a roll vs their Morale to determine if they surrender. If that fails you enter battle with the opposing side going first and your units only able to get one round of attacks not counting free actions, during this any enemy unit you reduce to zero HP counts as surrendered. You can check the probability of the surrender for free so if it says Max just go for it. Otherwise you'd generally use it against weakened squads you don't feel pose a significant risk, though as your units get stronger and your squads start getting really strong you'll feel comfortable trying to Force Surrender squads from full with murder squads.

The part where they count as surrendered if they hit zero health helps a lot. Thanks!

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters


Has anyone worked out yet what impact the questions at game start have

Pladdicus
Aug 13, 2010

"Sometimes life is too uncertain to have regrets."

this game is cool, full of neat stuff but it kinda sucks. the ux is clunky, the maps are full of uninteresting bits and bobs, but i love the mesh of ogrebattles/fire emblem/langrisser.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

Pladdicus posted:

this game is cool, full of neat stuff but it kinda sucks. the ux is clunky, the maps are full of uninteresting bits and bobs, but i love the mesh of ogrebattles/fire emblem/langrisser.

FWIW, the UI is way better with a controller if you have the option of using one.

And agreed, the game is great despite being the product of a rickety rear end version of RPG maker, but its provenance shows. Hopefully there are updates to this and sequels using something a little more capable and modern. A mobile port would rule as well.

Buying copies on steam for all my friends who ever liked ogre battle in the mean time.

deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

On a planet that increasingly resembles one huge Maximum Security prison, the only intelligent choice is to plan a jail break.



A huge hint I figured out about mouse controls: When you're going back in a menu, don't just tap RMB, hold it down for like half a second. That fixed most of my mouse control woes. Tapping seems to often register as multiple clicks when doing certain things (e.g. backing out of attack targeting)

aegof
Mar 2, 2011



Captain Oblivious posted:

Has anyone worked out yet what impact the questions at game start have

I've read on the steam forums that they adjust the main character's stats in some way but couldn't tell you more than that.



Dev says they want players to figure the specifics out on their own or from guides.

aegof fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Jun 16, 2022

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.


aegof posted:

I've read on the steam forums that they adjust the main character's stats in some way but couldn't tell you more than that.



Dev says they want players to figure the specifics out on their own or from guides.

drat, that IS Ogre Battle as gently caress.

Bussamove
Feb 25, 2006



I really want a Tarot card equivalent now. Even if they were jankily implemented I loved dropping a Tower on some fools.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012



Man, the writing is just so bad. They're managing to hit every single pitfall an amateur writer making a game scenario could. People explaining things the characters should already know, obvious plot twists, introducing too many factions and then being unable to flesh them out well, "Charming" characters with the charisma of Golyadkin Sr. They would've done well to excise the social links and mainstream the story so you can get to the two cool parts of the game, building your crew and using them to wreck dudes

deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

On a planet that increasingly resembles one huge Maximum Security prison, the only intelligent choice is to plan a jail break.



As of the last patch 99.99% of it is skippable including the friendship convos at the base. I've skipped all of it :kiddo:

Bussamove
Feb 25, 2006



Any time Stefanís stupid portrait is on screen I dread the text thatís about to appear.

Levantine
Feb 14, 2005

GUNDAM!!!


Gaius Marius posted:

Man, the writing is just so bad. They're managing to hit every single pitfall an amateur writer making a game scenario could. People explaining things the characters should already know, obvious plot twists, introducing too many factions and then being unable to flesh them out well, "Charming" characters with the charisma of Golyadkin Sr. They would've done well to excise the social links and mainstream the story so you can get to the two cool parts of the game, building your crew and using them to wreck dudes

I usually find mediocre writing pretty tolerable but the biggest sin it commits is no character has their own voice. They all "sound" the same to me. Devoa is just as glib as Stefan even if he doesn't use as many apostrophes.

Snooze Cruise
Feb 16, 2013

look-
a post,


Stefan is the worst...

I think there is a lot more games with actively obnoxious writing, not that it counts for much. I find it ultimately tolerable, it's just sorta lame for a game with like character focused mechanics.

Snooze Cruise
Feb 16, 2013

look-
a post,


Also lame it seems like the only gay options are for the player character?? Which is always the lamest way to do those options.

staplegun
Sep 21, 2003



I'm kind of fumbling through the game on the hardest difficulty and don't really have a firm understanding of the game's unit economy. Is it going to bite me in the rear end later on that I've been losing units during missions or is having casualties acceptable losses during boss leader encounters? It feels pretty bad to drop 1000 gold on a unit just for them to get deleted after your attack+enemy's attack phase.

GrandpaPants
Feb 13, 2006


Free to roam the heavens in man's noble quest to investigate the weirdness of the universe!



I find light infantry in general being kind of lame. They don't do as much damage as mages and they don't tank meaningfully (e.g., compared to heavy infantry), so they're just kind of in a weird goldilocks spot of uselessness. Ambush isn't really worth the setup, either, especially when in late game, your main doom squads are probably going to OHKO the enemy anyway.

That being said, the enemy suicide bomber squads of Swordmasters suck.

deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

On a planet that increasingly resembles one huge Maximum Security prison, the only intelligent choice is to plan a jail break.



staplegun posted:

I'm kind of fumbling through the game on the hardest difficulty and don't really have a firm understanding of the game's unit economy. Is it going to bite me in the rear end later on that I've been losing units during missions or is having casualties acceptable losses during boss leader encounters? It feels pretty bad to drop 1000 gold on a unit just for them to get deleted after your attack+enemy's attack phase.

I can't speak from experience because I'm not playing on Permadeath mode but from my time with Fire Emblem and playing this game on Normal difficulty I think if you want to roll with the punches and accept permadeath losses (as opposed to replaying until you get a perfect run), you'll probably want to start setting yourself up for success early on. Like for example regular troops are much easier to replace than squad leaders, if you lose a good squad leader you can't easily just hire another high LDR unit to replace them (hopefully you'll have one in your reserves/in their troop). So you need to focus on farming up LDR on your chosen squad leaders as much as possible, funneling defensive upgrade items/traits/artifacts into them, and making sure they stay alive even if the rest of the squad dies. You'll also probably need to build most of your squad around defenses (e.g. multiple heavy front-liners and multiple healers) to minimize deaths and just accept the fact that missions will take longer, if your plan is to just wing it.

I don't know what the hardest difficulty is like here but I always try to minimize my deaths as much as possible despite not playing with Permadeath (because just sacrificing units willy-nilly feels weird), and it has been fairly easy to manage all of this on Normal after I restarted and planned for it from the beginning.

When you hire regular troops from the marketplace their level is always scaled up to the current map. So even if they aren't advanced classes, you always have sufficiently-leveled rookies available at the market to replace losses. And as long as you can keep 1-2 core Doom Stacks around and surviving you'll probably be fine even if the rest of the squads are strong leaders with squads full of rookies

deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Jun 16, 2022

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012



The game feels like it was written by Highschoolers. It's got every single dumb history misunderstanding that Teen's have right down to the Characters getting incredulous at the idea of Latin. It's all so amateurish and without a grounding in actual period politics

staplegun posted:

I'm kind of fumbling through the game on the hardest difficulty and don't really have a firm understanding of the game's unit economy. Is it going to bite me in the rear end later on that I've been losing units during missions or is having casualties acceptable losses during boss leader encounters? It feels pretty bad to drop 1000 gold on a unit just for them to get deleted after your attack+enemy's attack phase.

I Hope not, I'm playing on Warlord and multiple of my units have gotten absolutely wrecked, but I'm destroying the optional objectives and always coming in under turn.

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Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

I'm not like other posters


If a Bond conversation pops up but I donít trigger it can I eventually pursue a Bond with someone else

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