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Snooze Cruise
Feb 16, 2013

look-
a post,


Colorspray posted:

Are there any weird mechanics with cannon jamming?

cannons can't counterattack, is it that?

also you can disband one of those story units you have (generic duke guy) so really its 11 at that point.

Snooze Cruise fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Jun 21, 2022

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Sankara
Jul 18, 2008




Picked this up today, been enjoying it. Glad they're continuing the Fire Emblem tradition (and Magnus from Ogre Battle 64) of having a blue haired main character.

Alard
Sep 4, 2011



Colorspray posted:

Are there any weird mechanics with cannon jamming?

I have a squad that's 5 siege cannons and a warbow, and am aware that weather and terrain (desert/lava overheat, wetland/rain dampen fuses I guess) type play a role here. Even with the tech tree talent that negates weather jamming, they jam way too often. Total crapshoot whether something gets deleted, or vaguely sneezed at.

Please don't tell me I have to equip/enable that talent somehow.

Beyond what SnoozeCruise mentioned, there is also the fact they'll do reduced damage to enemy squads that are sitting on a fort or big deal objective tile which might be contributing to terrible damage. Though my own squad of 4 cannons still manages to make a sizable dent in the HP of those squads despite that.

aegof
Mar 2, 2011



Colorspray posted:

I'm at ch 20 and have 12 story leaders. I have only have 2 generic leaders that don't get used too often, but I'm playing musical chairs evolving classes and tinkering squads between missions. 8 feels like they'd get sidelined, but maybe I'm wrong.

At Ch 30 I count 16 story characters, a couple of which are probably meant to go into other squads because their leadership stat is not great. I've been allowed to put in up to 20 squads for five or six battles, but have done fine with 15 on whatever the middling difficulty is. Characters are less picky about their squads being disbanded at this point, and I think more have become tolerant of it as time has gone on.

aegof fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Jun 21, 2022

deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

On a planet that increasingly resembles one huge Maximum Security prison, the only intelligent choice is to plan a jail break.



ClothHat posted:

How many story leaders do you end up with? If there are 6 slots for generics I dont want to waste a bunch of growth on 8 generic leaders who end up sidelined.

I haven't beat the game yet so I'm hesitant to provide a very detailed answer but currently in chapter 21 doing side missions I have six story characters who are squad leaders that won't let me disband their squads. They are:
the PC character, Jules, Sybil, Stefan, Diana, Lysander and (separate spoiler because they join much later than the others) Beatrix

Everyone else, including story characters that previously would not let me disband them (like Barnabas) is fine being disbanded now.

On top of that, some story characters that seem to be intended as leaders even though you can disband them include:
Abigayle and Barnabas, since they give bonuses while leading a squad with dragons or cavalry respectively and Raskuja, kind of, because he comes with fairly high LDR and his own squad But they can all also just be stuck in other squads.


Another big thing that comes into play here (for a separate reason than you originally asked about) is Loyal troops vs. Mercenary troops. Base tier 1 troops you hire from the market start out Loyal which makes them cost 2 fewer CP to add to a squad. Mercenaries (advanced troops you buy) start with the Mercenary trait which makes them cost 2 extra CP unless they're a squad leader.
Capping objectives seems to be a good way to edge them toward Loyalty - after a while they go from Mercenary to Non-Committal which makes them cost 1 extra CP, then Committed which makes them cost 1 fewer CP, then finally Loyal. Anecdotally I feel like objective capping is better for that than fighting but I haven't tested. Forcing surrenders also raises Loyalty pretty quickly.

That's unrelated to your original question but something you may want to consider when deciding which squads to funnel caps/surrenders into. Capping/surrendering with Mercenary units is preferred to edge them closer to Loyal (or just building an army mostly out of base troops that start out Loyal) for stronger squads overall. But this isn't the kind of thing that will make or break you (unless you're on Hardcore?)

deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Jun 21, 2022

babypolis
Nov 4, 2009

It's a hogspiracy


Colorspray posted:

I'm at ch 20 and have 12 story leaders. I have only have 2 generic leaders that don't get used too often, but I'm playing musical chairs evolving classes and tinkering squads between missions. 8 feels like they'd get sidelined, but maybe I'm wrong.



Loving this game - customizing squads, evolving and building them up to tackle specific scenarios is a treat.

Are there any weird mechanics with cannon jamming?

I have a squad that's 5 siege cannons and a warbow, and am aware that weather and terrain (desert/lava overheat, wetland/rain dampen fuses I guess) type play a role here. Even with the tech tree talent that negates weather jamming, they jam way too often. Total crapshoot whether something gets deleted, or vaguely sneezed at.

Please don't tell me I have to equip/enable that talent somehow.

I have noticed that cannons almost always jam when firing from 3 tiles distance, which kinda makes them suck compared to warbows

Zurai
Feb 13, 2012


Storebought units don't start at Loyal until mid-to-late game. It's one of the top-tier techs.

deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

On a planet that increasingly resembles one huge Maximum Security prison, the only intelligent choice is to plan a jail break.



Oh whoops :blush: They still start closer to Loyal than Mercs do, though.
e: Does anyone know if "adjacent" includes horizontal adjacency for things like polearm synergy? Or does it only count if they are in the same column?

deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Jun 21, 2022

DropTheAnvil
May 16, 2021


deep dish peat moss posted:

Something that's not immediately obvious: if you use Force Surrender and it fails, your units still get one round of attacks (But you lose things like Ambush and the enemy gets a defensive attack first), and if those attacks 'kill' any targets it makes them surrender, which is mostly what people are referring to when they say forcing surrenders (as opposed to weakning a squad then using force surrender to get a successful surrender without fighting)

95% sure you still get ambush when you do the "Surrender attack". You lose your "First" attack, but because of ambush your second attack goes before theirs.

deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

On a planet that increasingly resembles one huge Maximum Security prison, the only intelligent choice is to plan a jail break.



I tried doing Force Surrender with a squad of all Assassins once and the enemy went first and killed most of my assasssins, but there could have been something else causing that to happen like a trait on the defenders. I didn't try again

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d'être is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

deep dish peat moss posted:

I tried doing Force Surrender with a squad of all Assassins once and the enemy went first and killed most of my assasssins, but there could have been something else causing that to happen like a trait on the defenders. I didn't try again

Force Surrender gives up your first round of attacks. You only really want to do it against pathetic enemies or with a really tanky squad because you're giving the enemy a free hit on you before you can do anything.

Assassins in particular are awful at it because they're squishy as hell. Ditto magic users who don't get to even attack when you do it until you get the upgrade that lets them cast on the first action in battle.

deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

On a planet that increasingly resembles one huge Maximum Security prison, the only intelligent choice is to plan a jail break.



I know that, but the question is about whether or not Force Surrender gives up Ambush attacks and I think it does :sweatdrop:

Alard
Sep 4, 2011



The ambush mechanic is just finicky as hell, I've had sometimes where it should be activating but it doesn't.

Zurai
Feb 13, 2012


I thiiiiiink you can't ambush a unit that is capable of performing ambush attacks. Not certain, though.

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001


deep dish peat moss posted:

Unsolicited thoughts on cav/archer classes:

Knights kind of suck. Heavy cav in general just seems not worth using over light cav - they cost more resources and have marginally better stats, but Hussars get a bonus against cav that Knights don't and they get multiple evasion bonuses. Valkyrie is kinda the same deal as Knight - they get the heal that Paladins do but you're better off just sticking a Templar in a cav squad since it won't make it stop counting as a cav squad, and the unit that would be turned into a Valkyrie can just be made into a Paladin instead which is pretty much the best front-line unit outside of Sentinel+Centurion synergy squads.

Raiders seem to be the superior ranged unit in pretty much every way. They can't take down armor like Dragoons can but they have 2 range and shoot twice - and maybe it;s just the way I build my squads but I have several ways of eliminating armored enemies already. Warbow doesn't really seem worth it when you could make a Raider instead - Warbow gets one extra range on their shots but Raider is cav so they can move further and don't need the extra range :shrug: I haven't really used siege weapons - generally my focus with ranged squads is taking out mages and assassins and Raiders do that very well :shrug:

I think the purpose of heavy cav is to screen for your lighter cav units basically. They provide cover and block melee attackers to the back rows. You're pretty much spot on, they don't have great offensive output in comparison. I think they're intended to just sit on the front line in a unit full of dragoons or hussars and take hits.

Also agreed on paladins, which are the bad kind of hybrid. Not enough damage or healing to really be worth taking.

Raiders are just great. With the boots of tyranny they have incredible mobility and can kill or cripple a unit almost anywhere on the map. I made Jules a raider unit just to mess around while I built up some crossbows early game and basically never looked back.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012


I'm really enjoying this game as well, although it's different from what I expected. I had expected an ogre battle clone that happens to have fire emblem style supports, but it's actually a (very good) fire emblem clone that happens to have ogre battle unit management.

Now on map 16. The maps 13, 14, and 15 were way too easy (compared to maps before), I hope it gets more difficult again.

Node
May 20, 2001

KICKED IN THE COOTER
:dings:

Taco Defender

I've never bought an RPG maker game before, I'm nervous. But I loving love Ogre Battle. How is the music in this game?

Grundma
Mar 26, 2007

DOG controls your destiny. Seek out three items of his favor and then seek his shrine.

Wedge Regret

Node posted:

I've never bought an RPG maker game before, I'm nervous. But I loving love Ogre Battle. How is the music in this game?

The music is very simple and bland. It's not as bad as the writing but its not very memorable.

deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

On a planet that increasingly resembles one huge Maximum Security prison, the only intelligent choice is to plan a jail break.



Node posted:

I've never bought an RPG maker game before, I'm nervous. But I loving love Ogre Battle. How is the music in this game?

To be fair, other than recognizing some of the built-in RPGMaker terrain and then looking it up, I never would have known this was an RPGMaker game. It uses virtually zero of RPGMaker's baked in mechanics other than like, the way it does between-mission cutscenes and dialog. It really is a case of some mad genius devs creating a game in RPGMaker that would have been way easier to make in virtually any other engine and it's by far the coolest product I've ever seen made in RPGMaker personally

But the overall production value and presentation is pretty weak. Not bad, just not particularly good. Writing, music, character portraits, etc all leave a lot to be desired, but this is a game where you'll either love it or hate it based on the mechanics alone.

deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Jun 23, 2022

Zurai
Feb 13, 2012


Walh Hara posted:

Now on map 16. The maps 13, 14, and 15 were way too easy (compared to maps before), I hope it gets more difficult again.

There's a big jump in difficulty around map 20 or 21.

Arrrthritis
May 31, 2007




Grundma posted:

The music is very simple and bland. It's not as bad as the writing but its not very memorable.

I think the only track I remember is the pan flute song that plays when Diana meets up with her family and I'm pretty sure that's because half of it is the music box theme from Chrono Trigger.

MotU
Mar 6, 2007

It was like she was evicting walking garbage.


Pillbug

i actually like the portraits now reminds me of Exit Fate

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

Anyone watching dev updates or discord or whatever to tell me if they're going to fix/clarify some of the movement type interactions? The tutorial says as long as you have a majority of units of one type you will end up with that movement type. But there appear to be some exceptions:

***late game unit spoilers***


Should be air, but apparently dragon riders cant lift cavalry - have tried this with light cav as well with the same result - infantry move type


Even weirder thing here with her largeness



Should be light cav - that said, she can get lifted by dragons without issue

Zurai
Feb 13, 2012


I know some story characters count as multiple characters for the purposes of movement type, but I don't know which beyond the one mentioned in the most recent patch notes (Beatrix).

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

Zurai posted:

I know some story characters count as multiple characters for the purposes of movement type, but I don't know which beyond the one mentioned in the most recent patch notes (Beatrix).

Yeah it explains some things but not everything. Not going to ruin my day or anything, just annoying to have less flexibility.

Speaking of Beatrix, this artifact is totally broken on her. Especially with giant's thresher in a 4 person squad.

aegof
Mar 2, 2011



Movement type is supposed to be by majority of capacity, but some unit types cannot get a better movement type and some characters count for more, like the one yall have identified.

And yes, Sin Credo is like built for that purpose.

Arrrthritis
May 31, 2007




So I just hit chapter... 22? And i'm pretty sure this new character design for Diana is someone's fetish.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012


Welp, I just spend 30 minutes reorganizing my army (just completed chapter 24, got the new unit + some bazaar recruits + lots of unused capacity), only to realize that I could unlock the tech that gives each army another +10 capacity. Guess I'll spend another 30 minutes. Great game.

Arrrthritis posted:

So I just hit chapter... 22? And i'm pretty sure this new character design for Diana is someone's fetish.

Yes, it's quite unfortunate. The "fantasy female armor problem" hasn't been an issue besides this, but it's still a shame.

What do you guys do for the gaiden chapters? So far I only did the first 2, thought I'd do the others when the main campaign starts becoming challenging again.

deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

On a planet that increasingly resembles one huge Maximum Security prison, the only intelligent choice is to plan a jail break.



aparmenideanmonad posted:

Yeah it explains some things but not everything. Not going to ruin my day or anything, just annoying to have less flexibility.

Speaking of Beatrix, this artifact is totally broken on her. Especially with giant's thresher in a 4 person squad.



Does this relic give you an extra turn on the strategic map, or an extra turn in battle? There's another item (I forget the name of) that's legendary and gives a % Chance to get an Extra Turn, which I assumed would be an extra attack in battle but after equipping it (also on this character) I learned it's actually an entire extra turn for the squad on the map including another battle.

e: Anyone playing with Permadeath on have any opinions on how the game is with Permadeath? I can't imagine how I'd be keeping all my units alive, even in my most beefed out squads now that I'm in chapter 22+ enemies pretty much always wipe out at least one unit in a battle when the enemy initiates an attack (especially with all these squads that are all rangers, assassins and swordmasters) :argh: I guess I'd be spending a lot of time running to Donari Temples to resurrect, if that even works on Permadeath. Or I guess maybe you'd need to make a bait squad of all tanks to draw the enemy to you and then have a healer squad to heal them up, or something.

deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 11:27 on Jun 24, 2022

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012


Donari Temples work in permadeath mode, so you'll be backtracking a lot (or quicksave/quickload).

Figured I can post my squad: (chapter 24 completed)





The artifact that makes defenders go first is completely OP by the way.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

Walh Hara posted:

What do you guys do for the gaiden chapters? So far I only did the first 2, thought I'd do the others when the main campaign starts becoming challenging again.
I did all of them before going on to 22. Some were a little challenging in terms of not losing units from enemy doomstack pileups, but it was good training for using neph powers effectively. They all offer a nice reward (story unit upgrade, new story unit x 2, big pile of resources, additional power) but it's nothing gamechanging.

deep dish peat moss posted:

Does this relic give you an extra turn on the strategic map, or an extra turn in battle? There's another item (I forget the name of) that's legendary and gives a % Chance to get an Extra Turn, which I assumed would be an extra attack in battle but after equipping it (also on this character) I learned it's actually an entire extra turn for the squad on the map including another battle.

That one gives your leader a guaranteed second attack in battle as a "free action", but what makes it super broken is that it works even during the combat that ensues when you use "force surrender" on a high morale unit. The Jade figurine is, as you said, a chance at an extra action for the entire squad on the map, which is usually, but not always, useful.

quote:

e: Anyone playing with Permadeath on have any opinions on how the game is with Permadeath? I can't imagine how I'd be keeping all my units alive, even in my most beefed out squads now that I'm in chapter 22+ enemies pretty much always wipe out at least one unit in a battle when the enemy initiates an attack (especially with all these squads that are all rangers, assassins and swordmasters) :argh: I guess I'd be spending a lot of time running to Donari Temples to resurrect, if that even works on Permadeath. Or I guess maybe you'd need to make a bait squad of all tanks to draw the enemy to you and then have a healer squad to heal them up, or something.
Temples + player character revives work on permadeath.

Your healers and tanks can go together to make good bait - the best bait squads are purpose built tanks (paladins vs. magic and sentinels vs. firearms) + healers with relatively low threat rating, as the AI prefers to go after the player character or low threat units. A paladin or valk in each unit can add healing and help keep your dedicated healers alive with the tier two sisterhood of mercy tech. Good artifact builds help a lot as well in terms of adding resistance to damage types, adding armor and mag, or eliminating crits, and smart use of the exemplar power, once you have it is key.

Hitting first means you have to be able to move farther than the enemy, which is why +move artifacts (Boots of Tyranny), air, cav, and especially light cav units are so good. This is especially important vs. the firearms/cannon/mage/assassin stacks that the game likes to throw at you with increasing frequency as it goes on. Use the "enemy move" view from the strategic map menu or click on individual enemies to see how far they can go.


Walh Hara posted:

Figured I can post my squad: (chapter 24 completed)

The artifact that makes defenders go first is completely OP by the way.
Sup General Bizen buddy. Haven't seen the defenders first artifact yet, that seems like EZ mode with a high dmg bait squad.

Deki
May 12, 2008




This might have been something i missed in the tutorial files, but what does a star on an enemy signify?

Arrrthritis
May 31, 2007




Deki posted:

This might have been something i missed in the tutorial files, but what does a star on an enemy signify?

Defeating them counts towards your end-of-mission ranking (defeat all of them for an S rank)

Deki
May 12, 2008




Arrrthritis posted:

Defeating them counts towards your end-of-mission ranking (defeat all of them for an S rank)

Ok, awesome. I was worried I was supposed to be making them surrender or something.

e: That's a lot of artillery, holy shiiit

Deki fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Jun 25, 2022

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012


I don't like chapter 29. It's good that the game tries to bring some variety between the maps and mostly it's succesfull, but this "1 unit per army" map (similar to chapter 4) is just boring. Are any of the chapters afterwards cool?

aegof
Mar 2, 2011



Walh Hara posted:

I don't like chapter 29. It's good that the game tries to bring some variety between the maps and mostly it's succesfull, but this "1 unit per army" map (similar to chapter 4) is just boring. Are any of the chapters afterwards cool?

The game's 30 chapters long; there's a unique but not wildly interesting element to the ch 30 fight.

Molybdenum
Jun 24, 2007
Melting Point ~2622C

Just bought this and trying to stay spoiler free.

Permadeath, Y/N? I turned it on to start then I found myself delaying finishing a map so I could get my squads up to a temple to revive. That seems kinda dumb.

Deki
May 12, 2008




I just spent about 40 minutes retooling my army after getting the +10 capacity to all squads perk. Game's good. 8 warbow Jules unit with armor pen and + double attack odds kicks so much rear end.

Molybdenum posted:

Just bought this and trying to stay spoiler free.

Permadeath, Y/N? I turned it on to start then I found myself delaying finishing a map so I could get my squads up to a temple to revive. That seems kinda dumb.

I'd say N, but I don't play with it on for Fire Emblem games either

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

This is why we have orders, general.

If you're not massively cheesing the game, the fact that some late game units are hard to grow up from pre-levelled conscripts(mages) can be a real problem in permadeath.

Basically the bowmen and fighters that you get from the conscript pool later on have already done a bunch of levels with those and don't have the MAG progression to actually hit the threshholds to switch to the good mage classes.

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ChrisBTY
Mar 29, 2012

this glorious monument



Molybdenum posted:

Just bought this and trying to stay spoiler free.

Permadeath, Y/N? I turned it on to start then I found myself delaying finishing a map so I could get my squads up to a temple to revive. That seems kinda dumb.

No. The game does not feel balanced towards that at all.
It's not a super difficult game but there's enough fiddling about in it without having to worry about troop turnover.

I just beat the game. Fantastic game. Will very likely be on my Top 10 at the end of the year. I even had a soft spot for the more simple fantasy writing after Triangle Strategy's endless political gut punches. Though all the bond stuff is random garbo that only seems to exist because Fire Emblem did it.

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