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i for one believe women when they say they are harassed
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Jul 11, 2022 15:41
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learnincurve posted:I don't know all the alts and names, the guy who posted that had pos director stuff in his title and Reservoir Dogs quotes in his bio, and if I wasn't an industrialist I would probably have done some mental twisting to stay, but I am and my entire game play would have depended on a right wing anti-lgbt snowflake and gently caress that. No, your entire gameplay would not have depended on one "right wing anti-lgbt snowflake". yogizh is listed as a "Logistics Director" in GoonWaffe, but he cannot affect individual goons' gameplay in a way you seem to think they could.  learnincurve posted:also this guy is still on this chuffing site after posting that sending transphobia to goons via the daily telegraph channel is fine because youtube hasn't deemed it illegal. And make no mistake, this needs to be dealt with. Sickening posted:Why is this sticking point so important? Because she's trying to use it to brand everyone in the directorate for being complicit and bad.
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Jul 11, 2022 15:41
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Real question: would it be useful if the Imperium had something like abuse at goonfleet dot com as the dedicated channel for people to report they are being harassed in-game or on imperium platforms? PMing or Evemailing or whatever a bunch of people under "Director Team - All" doesn't seem to work, probably because unlike the corporate world "Director" in a video game doesn't necessarily mean you handle people issues. It probably means you have access rights to reload a space cannon or something. I don't know what most people do for the alliance, tbh, and that's okay, but I can see how it would be hard for a victim of abuse to figure out who to contact, and it wouldn't surprise me if most directors are in the same boat. ("I just load ammo into space station space cannons. I have no idea what to do with this PM so I'll just ignore it.") If the system isn't working, let's...fix the system?
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Jul 11, 2022 15:43
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andromache posted:Yogizh sent some dumbass corpmails like a year ago. Some like identify as an attack helicopter poo poo and some alt right YouTube link. Whoops. The reason the trans goons haven't been harping on about like this like I have is because when that poo poo is allowed to slide then it very quickly creates an environment where if they are out as trans, which is often rare in any online game, then they don't feel safe speaking out against power, where as the cis elements of the community often do. The right thing to do would have been for leadership to very publicly apologise to all the trans people who read that and have a proportional response, and that response does not have to be an air locking. Even a public "dude you a dick shut the gently caress up or next time you get airlocked" is fine. Then the adult thing is to say "if you see poo poo like this again then contact [this goon] via evemail" People always think the LGBT+ community is baying for blood when the reality is a "sorry, that was out of line I'll not do it again" is just fine.
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Jul 11, 2022 15:44
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Maybe we should do a public stockades and show us everyone in the last month got put on tar and feathers
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Jul 11, 2022 15:48
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They banned hole squad because they were too inappropriate. They will ban Delta Sqad because they were not inappropriate enough. Also, something about ignoring the issue at hand because it's impossible to take the higher ground on it (admitting you've hosed up is too hard) and changing topics hoping Delta Sqad will do themselves in 48 hours
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Jul 11, 2022 15:53
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andromache posted:That’s the part that I take a bit of offense to with Aldani’s “I told literally every director” bit. I'm not personally connected to any of this but I gotta say that the trigger-happy, intentionally bellicose persona you've been proudly and publicly cultivating for the past, what, decade? would make you the absolute last director I'd seek out with anything that doesn't fall directly within your explicit portfolio. Maybe the co-leader of Sirenswarm or whatever should have known something I don't, but to the general populace you are the exact polar opposite of a "come to me with any problems you have!" kinda guy.
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Jul 11, 2022 16:06
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Ynglaur posted:Real question: would it be useful if the Imperium had something like abuse at goonfleet dot com as the dedicated channel for people to report they are being harassed in-game or on imperium platforms? There was a lot of discussion over the weekend on process changes to make sure complaints are read, investigated, and responded to in a timely manner. Doesn’t mean they will be resolved to everyone’s satisfaction - you still run into claims that cannot be substantiated or instances where everyone involved is a terrible person, but should at least fix the nobody responded to me stuff.
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Jul 11, 2022 16:11
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Oh, also, a general tip -- you can, like, open a PM with Mittani and ask him stuff. People are really, really hesitant to do that and I don't know why. I've done it all the loving time when I felt like it in the past and I'm nobody. Dude doesn't have a secretary or a bouncer or anything. Not that this is necessarily helpful right this second, of course.
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Jul 11, 2022 16:12
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:A lotta y'all still don't get it. You can use multiple grudge juices on a single director mods ???
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Jul 11, 2022 16:15
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Ynglaur posted:If the system isn't working, let's...fix the system? Are any of the people with the power to Fix The System showing any interest in wanting to do so? I've no idea if any of the people currently posting it are space important in any way but that would seem to be a pretty important first step. If not, welp.
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Jul 11, 2022 16:16
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Sickening posted:Why is this sticking point so important? because it allows them to say "this one thing is untrue therefore the entire argument is invalid." Wibla posted:She also did not "tell literally everyone in illum", I know that for a fact. is it possible she was told that it was brought up in illum and dismissed? is that within the realm of possibility, dear nerds, and maybe she's not like this outrageous unreliable lying liarpants? Ynglaur posted:Real question: would it be useful if the Imperium had something like abuse at goonfleet dot com as the dedicated channel for people to report they are being harassed in-game or on imperium platforms?  one of the more disappointing aspects about this is that while the imperium is very interested in doing a lot of things well and dedicates lots of resources to those things, blazing paths in offensive logistics and intel-gathering and propaganda, this is one challenge they're super balking at. it would be so fuckin' cool to see this already-innovative video game organization at least make some kind of good-faith attempt at handing harassment allegations. it doesn't have to be perfect, but it needs to be better than "message nom and hope for a response within three to five business months."
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Jul 11, 2022 16:17
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1: helldump should be the top forum
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Jul 11, 2022 16:19
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Wibla posted:Basically this. Interrupting my catch-up reading to point out wibla has never even accidentally made a good post. I’m three pages back so I’ll be posting again soon - sorry if this is an actionable threat.
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Jul 11, 2022 16:21
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:Oh, also, a general tip -- you can, like, open a PM with Mittani and ask him stuff. People are really, really hesitant to do that and I don't know why. I've done it all the loving time when I felt like it in the past and I'm nobody. Dude doesn't have a secretary or a bouncer or anything. Mittens has frequently talked about how when something he doesn't normally have to deal with comes to his attention then his default reaction is shooting everyone involved. Like, maybe this particular scenario wasn't what he had in mind when he said that, but Random Line Member #8593 doesn't necessarily know that.
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Jul 11, 2022 16:23
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Roller Coast Guard posted:Are any of the people with the power to Fix The System showing any interest in wanting to do so? Based on reading between the lines of Director Posts there is a desire amongst some of them to do better and be better. Given the overal resistance to having a consistent and public conflict resoution process that is appropriate for the hosed up future we find ourselves living in, I'm assuming it's not enough of them. There is a wide range of conflict resoution strategies between "airlock everyone involved" and "restorative justice" and maybe changes will actually happen if people keep posting about it the actual issues.
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Jul 11, 2022 16:26
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Roller Coast Guard posted:Mittens has frequently talked about how when something he doesn't normally have to deal with comes to his attention then his default reaction is shooting everyone involved. The only time that ever comes up is when it has to do with lovely PVE or turf drama, by the way. It's the sort of thing that literally anyone except the entitled people involved can instantly divine as utter insanity. You can use your instincts to avoid that trap by just listening to them.
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Jul 11, 2022 16:27
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:Oh, also, a general tip -- you can, like, open a PM with Mittani and ask him stuff. People are really, really hesitant to do that and I don't know why. I've done it all the loving time when I felt like it in the past and I'm nobody. Dude doesn't have a secretary or a bouncer or anything. 1 - Stop pretending you're a nobody. 2 - I pmed Mittani once or twice too and I am definitely a nobody. He's answered despite my pm being trivial poo poo. He's definitely more approachable than people think.
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Jul 11, 2022 16:27
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raminasi posted:I'm not personally connected to any of this but I gotta say that the trigger-happy, intentionally bellicose persona you've been proudly and publicly cultivating for the past, what, decade? would make you the absolute last director I'd seek out with anything that doesn't fall directly within your explicit portfolio. Maybe the co-leader of Sirenswarm or whatever should have known something I don't, but to the general populace you are the exact polar opposite of a "come to me with any problems you have!" kinda guy. It’s my imperium persona but it’s very much not my delta persona as most people in this thread will agree. I inherited reimbursement from Khefron and when initially hired I resolved to be a kinder, gentler, customer focused director than how Khefron ran the org. I promptly realized Khefron was right, goons are loving terrible, and developed some very spiky thorns to dissuade anyone from bothering me unless they absolutely had their ducks in a loving row. And yes raminasi that’s why I was upset with the literally everyone in illum comment, because I’m the loud bellicose guy who will absolutely unapologetically fight you if your poo poo isn’t correct, there’s another 30 or 40 gsol subdirectors, diplos, recon, and procurement people who have absolutely nothing to do with this poo poo that have been unfairly painted with that brush. For example, did aldani mean to include Mirana Balari in her accusation? Because she did, the way it was written. That’s why I’m so goddamn adamant about accuracy, because there are some problems but they aren’t going to be fixed with over generalization.
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Jul 11, 2022 16:29
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So first of all Atrum is good people and will basically always help someone with an issue with the directorate as long as it’s not like appealing an SRP denial or some poo poo.Aedaxus posted:Because anyone here could have stopped it, by simply informing the victim he/she has to (1) gather all evidence (2) contact the proper authorities. And support him/her on this even when the victim says "But, I don't want this to escalate." These cases are extremely difficult, because it's more than EVE Online. Twitch is also a platform where it happened. It's about emotion and friendships. I used to run a 300 "toons" "clan" in another game and we had one women in there... every few weeks there was some nasty perv or young horny person that really crossed the lines and we no longer had to deal with it as they quickly left after being informed about the case and if they would present themselves at their local police station. The company knows the contact details of the customer, it's just one warrant away. And that was back in the day where it was confusing for the police to understand what teamspeak and online games were. This is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard in the long and winding history of this awful thread. I hope you can appreciate the magnitude of that, given the sheer size, and generally awful posting this thread has seen in the almost full decade I’ve been actively reading it. You are a moron of remarkable stature and that you are allowed to string words together into a sentence is to the general detriment of humanity.
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Jul 11, 2022 16:30
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Baculus posted:Interrupting my catch-up reading to point out wibla has never even accidentally made a good post. I’m three pages back so I’ll be posting again soon - sorry if this is an actionable threat. Ad hominem attacks just means you have no actual argument 
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Jul 11, 2022 16:32
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Baculus posted:
Thank you for putting into words how I felt earlier but could not adequately convey. I really didn't want to use the Billy Madison gif.
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Jul 11, 2022 16:34
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Wibla posted:Ad hominem attacks just means you have no actual argument Gonna get mad and rage quit again because people won't bow down and kiss your ring?
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Jul 11, 2022 16:34
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Captain Melo posted:Gonna get mad and rage quit again because people won't bow down and kiss your ring? Hey I never heard that story 
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Jul 11, 2022 16:35
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are you angry enough about it to go into your own house and ask the people there who knew, and who are the problem people making the rest of you look bad? Women don't report this stuff a lot of the time because it's so draining. Every tiny wedge opened, the whatterboutery, the deliberate gaslighting, the genuine accidental confusion cause by bad memories, weed, a language barrier or people being in the room but afk and all the while she got these men in the room screaming at her to back up what she says with evidence when normal people really don't save every chat log or record audio.
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Jul 11, 2022 16:35
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gadgethugs posted:Based on reading between the lines of Director Posts there is a desire amongst some of them to do better and be better. Given the overal resistance to having a consistent and public conflict resoution process that is appropriate for the hosed up future we find ourselves living in, I'm assuming it's not enough of them. FWIW, I think only one director has actually posted ITT about this stuff. Wibla leads TNT, so while he definitely has experience dealing with crap like this, he doesn't actually have any say about internal GSF stuff. Pretty sure he prefers it that way too or he would have widotted a long time ago  Also, the direkkktorate doesn't lead by consensus.
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Jul 11, 2022 16:37
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SwashedBuckles posted:It also stifles reporting on issues because you’ll at least catch a temporary ban while poo poo is sorted. It’s a stupid system that needs to change. This absolutely does need to change. Who wants to be a full time poo poo sorter though is the problem.
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Jul 11, 2022 16:39
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while I definitely think we need a better system for "trust, but verify" I gotta admit I dont think there a feasible solution for Aldani's case if your response to "who said what and when" is "im scared that a drunk eve player might shoot me at the next fanfest in retaliation" your problem is beyond the scope of our ability to handle
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Jul 11, 2022 16:43
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Tsed posted:1: helldump should be the top forum Only good take in like 5 pages of poop touching.
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Jul 11, 2022 16:43
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Ynglaur posted:Real question: would it be useful if the Imperium had something like abuse at goonfleet dot com as the dedicated channel for people to report they are being harassed in-game or on imperium platforms? My understanding at the moment - from asking around privately - is that a fix to the system is in the works. I don't have any solid details beyond that, though.
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Jul 11, 2022 16:46
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learnincurve posted:are you angry enough about it to go into your own house and ask the people there who knew, and who are the problem people making the rest of you look bad? I was concerned enough about how this incident and a few others were handled that I contributed quite a bit to the process improvement discussion cryo was leading. I don’t know where it all landed because I’m posting on my phone when I should be working, but I was involved in the process improvement piece. And yes, this poo poo is hard. It’s like in the Reddit thread where people are like hurr hurr SRP in 3 min. SRP or market fuckery are easy and cut and dried. Social poo poo is hard. We’ve had success cleaning up the gamer words because again that poo poo is easily unacceptable. But even last night delta had to educate an Eastern European guy on why Gypsy was a bad word. That’s why evidence and substantiation is important because I do think most people want to be fair. And because there is so much subjectivity involved on whether an individual felt they were harassed and the other person’s intent on a particular incident there’s a tendency to want a lot of evidence to try and determine a pattern of behavior over time. andromache fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Jul 11, 2022 |
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Jul 11, 2022 16:47
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:FWIW, I think only one director has actually posted ITT about this stuff. Wibla leads TNT, so while he definitely has experience dealing with crap like this, he doesn't actually have any say about internal GSF stuff. Pretty sure he prefers it that way too or he would have widotted a long time ago I'm talking about external social media, previous drama posting, in game chats, jabber pings. I'm OK with the adults not being interested in leading by consensus - that poo poo never works - even in groups that feature alignment across political and socio economic divides - which I'm pretty sure this group does not have.
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Jul 11, 2022 16:47
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Dalael posted:Hey I never heard that story Me neither
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Jul 11, 2022 16:51
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andromache posted:
I don't want to cause any poo poo, but I would also like an education about why the word Gypsy is bad. It's a word I'm mostly familiar with due to fantasy settings (Ie: the vistani's in the Ravenloft world) but do not know why its a bad term. If anyone either wants to post it here or simply dm me, i'd like to know.
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Jul 11, 2022 16:52
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Ynglaur posted:Real question: would it be useful if the Imperium had something like abuse at goonfleet dot com as the dedicated channel for people to report they are being harassed in-game or on imperium platforms? ffs I just made a post similar to this on goonefleetedottecomme. I feel so original.
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Jul 11, 2022 16:52
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learnincurve posted:Whoops. I'm about half way to being comfortable speaking out. That and I've seen that loving meme so many times it's turned into an eye roll reaction.
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Jul 11, 2022 16:54
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:The only time that ever comes up is when it has to do with lovely PVE or turf drama, by the way. It's the sort of thing that literally anyone except the entitled people involved can instantly divine as utter insanity. You can use your instincts to avoid that trap by just listening to them. He doesn't say "If I hear about something I shouldn't have to, and it's an actual problem that needs resolution, I get it resolved, but if it's dumb drama, I shoot everyone." He says "If I hear about something I shouldn't have to, I shoot everyone." Maybe people ~in the know~ can interpret his true meaning, but it's not on the surface. And "you can bring anything to Mittens as long as you're not crazy" is utterly useless as advice to a woman being harassed, because accusing them of insanity is like the #1 defense in those cases!
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Jul 11, 2022 16:57
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Wibla posted:Basically this. Everyone in Illum at the Illum dinner in Vegas. PuppiesAndKitties fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Jul 11, 2022 |
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Jul 11, 2022 16:57
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Wibla posted:Me neither The word is that you came in asking for something in discord which isn’t really how we work. There was also a comment made to delta leadership about keeping members in line, which is also not how we work. Aritzia isn’t our emperor he’s our dad and when you’re mad at your dad you tell him to go gently caress himself and point out that he rightly loves his other children more than you. And your dad gives you a wide berth and the opportunity to grow and do better because they love you (not you specifically, clearly, but the metaphorical you who would be a delta).
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Jul 11, 2022 16:58
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Mr. Grinch posted:while I definitely think we need a better system for "trust, but verify" I gotta admit I dont think there a feasible solution for Aldani's case You look over the fact that I have provided this information to people, multiple times, and nothing was done. The details are out there, they are being ignored.
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Jul 11, 2022 17:07
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