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Later on Gaiman is much better at doing lighthearted stuff to balance out the darker stuff. In Brief Lives Dream having to put up with Delirium is hilarious, which helps balance the darker parts like a guy getting crushed by a building or a goddess posing as a stripper melting the entire strip club's faces off...literally Oh look new page, how about new content? They released a new video that is a mixture of new footage as well as Cast and Crew talking about the show. Some things it shows in pretty good detail are The House of Mystery and the House of Secrets, The Corinthian advising Roderick Burgess (which is new to the show), and shots of characters from The Dolls House including Barbie and her fantasy friend Martin Tenbones, as well as Lyta and Hector Hall in the Dream Dome https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Fyja48qK2g TheBigBudgetSequel fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Jul 27, 2022 |
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Jul 27, 2022 02:06
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TheBigBudgetSequel posted:Actor Asim Chaudhry plays Abel in the series (for non-readers, Cain and Able from the biblical story got new jobs as basically horror hosts like the Cryptkeeper and live in Morpheus' kingdom now) just a bit of trivia for those that didn't know, this wasn't something Gaiman created for Sandman. Cain and Abel were the narrators for DC's Mystery! anthology line alongside Eve in the 60s. The line would eventually be relaunched as Vertigo in the 80s.
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Jul 27, 2022 06:00
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glad to see zoolander still getting work
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Jul 27, 2022 07:12
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:just a bit of trivia for those that didn't know, this wasn't something Gaiman created for Sandman. Cain and Abel were the narrators for DC's Mystery! anthology line alongside Eve in the 60s. The line would eventually be relaunched as Vertigo in the 80s. There's lots and lots of old DC characters that got recycled/recontextualized for the comic. The entire concept started out as a re-envisioning of the classic 1970s Simon/Kirby Sandman superhero, Garrett Sanford, who was replaced by Hector Hall in the late 80s  Some of the characters in the background of that cover should be familiar as well:  
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Jul 27, 2022 07:57
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:just a bit of trivia for those that didn't know, this wasn't something Gaiman created for Sandman. Cain and Abel were the narrators for DC's Mystery! anthology line alongside Eve in the 60s. The line would eventually be relaunched as Vertigo in the 80s. There are a lot of characters in Sandman that people think are Gaiman creations but are not.
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Jul 27, 2022 07:58
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I hope Heinberg saying "the first season is unique" in that it varies setting, theme, cast etc. by episode is just marketing fluff cause the whole show should be doing that. One of my main concerns is that they fall into that streaming series trap of making a core cast of characters that everything has to revolve around forever. Sandman the comic does have a core cast of characters but a lot of important players don't even show up until halfway through, some that are important initially completely drop out, and some are part of the core cast only for an arc or two and disappear until the grand finale. Kind of the trouble with adaptations, everyone can read the 70-odd issues of Sandman in a weekend these days and I feel like showrunners are generally afraid of playing the long game and letting things develop slowly, and instead try to do as much as they can at once to reassure fans "yes, this and that are going to be in the show", but lose something about the narrative in the process. Kinda wish they'd given this show to someone like Noah Hawley. He's definitely not afraid to go to weird places narratively and visually and to go off on storyline tangents for entire episodes and that would be very reassuring.
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Jul 27, 2022 08:30
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TheBigBudgetSequel posted:Later on Gaiman is much better at doing lighthearted stuff to balance out the darker stuff. In Brief Lives Dream having to put up with Delirium is hilarious, which helps balance the darker parts like a guy getting crushed by a building or a goddess posing as a stripper melting the entire strip club's faces off...literally The adventures of Dream and Delirium are fun and games until you realize that they genuinely does not give gently caress about all the people that are killed because of their actions: 
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Jul 27, 2022 09:20
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Does anyone really, really hate the cinematography for the show? There's the occasional shot that doesn't seem to be swimming in vaseline, but man watching that newest ad and seeing the contrast between the way the talking heads are shot and the way the dream stuff is shot... man I just really don't like it at all.
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Jul 27, 2022 11:47
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Jedit posted:There are a lot of characters in Sandman that people think are Gaiman creations but are not. Case in point Prez Rickard lol Edit: Kind of surprised not to see a casting for Hob Gadling unless I've missed it. If they're gonna jump around time periods eventually(they should), he's a useful framing character. Nail Rat fucked around with this message at 12:08 on Jul 27, 2022 |
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Jul 27, 2022 12:04
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Nail Rat posted:Kind of surprised not to see a casting for Hob Gadling unless I've missed it. If they're gonna jump around time periods eventually(they should), he's a useful framing character. You have. He's being played by Ben Kingsley's son Ferdinand.
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Jul 27, 2022 13:46
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Well, glad to see I missed that then. He may be a minor character but imo he's essential.
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Jul 27, 2022 14:00
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Hobb's last monologue about death is still one of my favorite comic book bits. Alongside 'character spoiler' Destruction's monologue about the transitoriness of existence.
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Jul 27, 2022 15:11
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Eau de MacGowan posted:glad to see zoolander still getting work It's been a long time since I read the comics, so maybe it fits and I just don't remember it that way, but I get the same gormless vibes from him that I had from Jon Snow on Game of Thrones and it's kind of annoying to me.
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Jul 27, 2022 16:44
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Hob is straight up my favourite part of the whole series, I just love the idea of a couple of guys meeting up every hundred years to shoot the breeze. Did Death do it out of amusement or because she thought it'd be good for her idiot brother? I always figured the latter. I've only read the series once, my girlfriend at the time was goth af and had the whole collection so I ended up going through the lot while she was at work. I only remember the broad strokes and main characters, and very little of the details. But it did get me into most of the other Vertigo stuff, particularly Hellblazer, so I've a fond place for it in my heart and really looking forward to seeing how this show turns out.
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Jul 27, 2022 17:03
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My Lovely Horse posted:Kind of the trouble with adaptations, everyone can read the 70-odd issues of Sandman in a weekend these days and I feel like showrunners are generally afraid of playing the long game and letting things develop slowly, and instead try to do as much as they can at once to reassure fans "yes, this and that are going to be in the show", but lose something about the narrative in the process. I mean, anyone can read them, but most won't.
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Jul 27, 2022 18:37
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Sentinel Red posted:Hob is straight up my favourite part of the whole series, I just love the idea of a couple of guys meeting up every hundred years to shoot the breeze. Did Death do it out of amusement or because she thought it'd be good for her idiot brother? I always figured the latter. He literally just says that he doesn't want to die and Death happens to hear it and says "okay."
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Jul 27, 2022 20:09
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I always got a strong Zelazny vibe from Hob's whole deal. Might have even been inspired by one of short stories? I know Gaiman is a big fan.
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Jul 27, 2022 20:17
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Alhazred posted:He literally just says that he doesn't want to die and Death happens to hear it and says "okay." She is obviously okay with it and down with it, but what seals the deal is when Dream says "it could be interesting" and that's the closest thing he's probably ever said to "Let's have some fun" so she almost certainly did it because she knew it would bring enjoyment to him.
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Jul 27, 2022 20:32
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Just read back the first Hob Gadling issue. Dream being imprisoned for 100+ years in the show is gonna mess with that a bit. So many little things when you do an adaptation.
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Jul 27, 2022 21:41
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My Lovely Horse posted:Just read back the first Hob Gadling issue. Dream being imprisoned for 100+ years in the show is gonna mess with that a bit. So many little things when you do an adaptation. I expect that Dream will have been imprisoned for slightly less than 100 years and the capture happened just after his last meeting with Hob. I'm more concerned about the passing of 30 years since the writing affecting them winding up in the tavern at the right time for Dream to make his bargain with Shakespeare, but that’s a matter for S2 should we get it.
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Jul 27, 2022 22:04
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Jedit posted:I expect that Dream will have been imprisoned for slightly less than 100 years and the capture happened just after his last meeting with Hob. I'm more concerned about the passing of 30 years since the writing affecting them winding up in the tavern at the right time for Dream to make his bargain with Shakespeare, but that’s a matter for S2 should we get it. Neil has said that He is captured at the same time that he is in the comics, but he doesn't get out until 2022. He has said the show will show how that changes things (which is apparently not much) with the Hob story being one of them. The word is that in the 80s Hob Meeting, Death meets him instead, but that's not confirmed
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Jul 28, 2022 01:50
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Makes sense, but that in turn would eventually impact his segment from the finale, if they stick with the general idea of that. I'm curious to see how they'll deal with all that.
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Jul 28, 2022 07:43
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Guardian did an interview with Neil: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2022/jul/30/neil-gaiman-sandman-netflix-interview Not much new for anyone who knows their Sandman history
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Jul 30, 2022 12:13
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My Lovely Horse posted:Guardian did an interview with Neil: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2022/jul/30/neil-gaiman-sandman-netflix-interview I love him talking about dealing with trolls who clearly haven't read the comics (or severely misunderstood them if they did read them) bitching about Desire being Non-Binary. Like they didn't use that term in the late 80s the way we do now, but that was always the clear intention of the comic, even if the phrases used then are a little clunky now (like when they refer to Desire as It) It is actually remarkable how ahead of the times Gaiman was in talking about some of these things, which means the show has to change very little to be relevant today.
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Jul 30, 2022 20:12
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are there seriously people who weren't aware that Desire was supposed to not entirely male or female because loving lmao edit: like, to be stupidly charitable, maybe people were going with the "Dream is the only one that's male" rationale, but that uh, for obvious reasons, falls apart later in the comic
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Jul 30, 2022 20:15
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precision posted:are there seriously people who weren't aware that Desire was supposed to not entirely male or female Chuds on twitter try to tell Neil Gaiman that he should be ashamed for letting Sandman go "woke" because of Desire and some of the casting choices like Kirby as Death, Christie as Lucifer, and gender-swapping John Constantine with Jenna Coleman. And he shuts them down beautifully because he's nice while doing it. Ever the polite British author, even when dunking on trolls.
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Jul 30, 2022 21:29
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TheBigBudgetSequel posted:Chuds on twitter try to tell Neil Gaiman that he should be ashamed for letting Sandman go "woke" because of Desire and some of the casting choices like Kirby as Death, Christie as Lucifer, and gender-swapping John Constantine with Jenna Coleman. It's been fantastic. "I just wish Death was more accurate because of her....uh...missing tattoo, yeah!" Neil: "she doesn't get that for a few issues after this scene."
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Jul 30, 2022 21:49
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I know I shouldn't be surprised but it is so odd that someone could claim to like Sandman and be against LGBT characters. Like there's an entire goddamn issue of the comic about respecting someone's gender identity.
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Jul 30, 2022 22:00
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I have a feeling they are either lying about being a fan and are just being mad at "wokeism" for the sake of being mad...that or they just skipped A Game of You, which is a crime in itself since A Game of You is fantastic. Darko posted:It's been fantastic. "I just wish Death was more accurate because of her....uh...missing tattoo, yeah!" Neil: "she doesn't get that for a few issues after this scene." Exactly. Like I get being a little disappointed that a character doesn't look exactly like what you imagined, but so far it looks as if the cast are nailing their performances. I admit I'm a little sad we won't get disheveled down on his luck John Constantine, but the rights issues alone make that a nightmare, so I'm perfectly happy with Johanna, who seems to be doing very well for herself according to the trailers
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Jul 30, 2022 22:02
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Darko posted:It's been fantastic. "I just wish Death was more accurate because of her....uh...missing tattoo, yeah!" Neil: "she doesn't get that for a few issues after this scene." like... ugh like, yes. part of Death's iconic look was the stark contrast between her white skin and black clothes. so, yes. it is theoretically possible to say "i just wish she looked more like the comics" without being a racist it's just that nobody, absolutely nobody, would make a big deal out of it unless they're racist like man. i'll be honest. i love Death's iconic look. but... this is an adaptation! making her darker skinned in this version doesn't erase the original!!!! it's like the opposite of Spiderman. i VASTLY prefer Miles Morales as Spidey, and it has nothing to do with his race, i just think he looks better!
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Jul 30, 2022 22:03
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precision posted:like... ugh Miles fan here too. I just like him as a more modern version of what Spider-man was envisioned as in the 60s. Also, the endless have no set looks! They appear however the viewer sees them! They can look like anything.
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Jul 30, 2022 22:10
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Darko posted:Also, the endless have no set looks! They appear however the viewer sees them! They can look like anything. listen buster, don't you dare bring your commie logic into this comic book store
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Jul 30, 2022 22:27
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precision posted:like, yes. part of Death's iconic look was the stark contrast between her white skin and black clothes. Darko posted:Also, the endless have no set looks! They appear however the viewer sees them! They can look like anything. I will say, in adaptations in general I feel it's fairly predictable what characters producers will cast as a different race from the source material. Not the main protagonists, for one thing. My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Jul 30, 2022 |
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Jul 30, 2022 22:39
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TheBigBudgetSequel posted:I have a feeling they are either lying about being a fan and are just being mad at "wokeism" for the sake of being mad...that or they just skipped A Game of You, which is a crime in itself since A Game of You is fantastic. Eh, honestly I feel that A Game of You is the one Sandman story it's okay to skip.
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Jul 30, 2022 22:45
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My Lovely Horse posted:I do think it's a change to the character, just because Death's thing is "being a goth chick" and goth is just overwhelmingly a white people thing. But, as you say, that's ultimately visual design. As things than can get lost in adaptation go, a visual tie to a 40 year old subculture is not particularly significant. A subset of black people super got into the goth subculture which was kind of parallel to the anime culture at the same time (if you look at DBZ Fandom, it's largely black, for instance, as well as having full black anime focused conventions). I think it's glossed over by a lot of other people because they just see black people wearing black or whatever without the huge contrast of dark coloring on pale.
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Jul 30, 2022 22:58
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Alhazred posted:Eh, honestly I feel that A Game of You is the one Sandman story it's okay to skip. Will say if people want the "original" Death they can always listen to the audiobook which I think Kat Dennings does a good job
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Jul 30, 2022 23:20
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Googling "black people in goth subculture" absolutely brings up more useful and interesting results than I'm generally used to from googling things these days, I'll tell you that much. Recommended! Although I think the kind of British pre-90s goth scene that Sandman takes visual roots in (although Death's design in particular is really more Mike Dringenberg's doing, as is well documented) precedes the DBZ/anime connection. But then, the show is set in contemporary times. Gonna be interesting to see where that's reflected.
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Jul 30, 2022 23:25
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My Lovely Horse posted:Even in one of the first issues of the comic itself within a few issues we see Dream as a black man through the eyes of Nada. Which actually, since in shows and movies a character's identity is so closely tied to the actor's, I do wonder if they'll keep that. He does take on the for of Kai'ckul when he meets Nada in Hell (and I think they may do a trunkated adaptation of Tales from the Sand as a flashback rather than a story being told)  achillesforever6 posted:Yeah I'm getting to it in the audiobook where apparently they've made changes to it to make it less problematic since the source material hasn't aged well in 25 years, but also they aren't getting to that til season 2. They do a pretty good job adapting and updating things in A Game of You in the audobook. Thessaly no longer says that Wanda can't go with them because she's "a man" and they have better use of pronouns and such. George is still a transphobic rear end in a top hat but he's meant to be villainous in his opinion
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Jul 30, 2022 23:47
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 Typical.
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Jul 31, 2022 00:07
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Unkempt posted:
Goddamn it Karen, keep your son under control.
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Jul 31, 2022 00:28
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