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I think items on the wall still disappear forever.
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Aug 10, 2022 06:11
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Alxprit posted:I think items on the wall still disappear forever. They don't! I cleaned the whole place out and they came right back.
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Aug 10, 2022 06:25
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Nice. I thought I remembered one being gone when I played, but nice.
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Aug 10, 2022 06:40
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Gameplay questions on the final chapter, mostly just curious on some stuff: so umm, do random encounters scale off your party level? I switched out Cube for Masaru to do his dungeon and as he started to skyrocket in levels I started seeing more weird stuff and I think I remember someone saying it generally works like that for certain parts of the game.
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Aug 10, 2022 16:20
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Last Celebration posted:Gameplay questions on the final chapter, mostly just curious on some stuff: so umm, do random encounters scale off your party level? I switched out Cube for Masaru to do his dungeon and as he started to skyrocket in levels I started seeing more weird stuff and I think I remember someone saying it generally works like that for certain parts of the game. Yes it scales both on average level of the party and number of party members.
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Aug 10, 2022 16:21
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Oh that’s kinda silly then, guess I chose Easy Mode on accident!
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Aug 10, 2022 16:24
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Easy mode is starting with Lei as the Earthen Heart Master because even when the encounters get rougher she can still wipe 90% of them instantly with Sacred Dragon's Temper
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Aug 10, 2022 16:26
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The dragon comes for you!
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Aug 10, 2022 16:43
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Last Celebration posted:Gameplay questions on the final chapter, mostly just curious on some stuff: so umm, do random encounters scale off your party level? I switched out Cube for Masaru to do his dungeon and as he started to skyrocket in levels I started seeing more weird stuff and I think I remember someone saying it generally works like that for certain parts of the game. What they said, but additionally, the encounters in Masaru's dungeon specifically are a couple levels higher than what you'd encounter elsewhere. That's its gimmick.
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Aug 10, 2022 17:25
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Endgame: i suppose in retrospect fighting Oerstied to the death after he loses his ominous aura was possibly a bad idea and not the way to the true ending, but in my defense I just figured it was a “but thou must” deal after I said no the first time and the prompt appeared again after going to talk to him. Aw well, that’s about twenty minutes of my life pissed away!
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Aug 10, 2022 18:17
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it's okay, you're just being thorough
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Aug 10, 2022 18:38
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Last Celebration posted:Endgame: i suppose in retrospect fighting Oerstied to the death after he loses his ominous aura was possibly a bad idea and not the way to the true ending, but in my defense I just figured it was a “but thou must” deal after I said no the first time and the prompt appeared again after going to talk to him. Aw well, that’s about twenty minutes of my life pissed away! Have you checked if there was an auto save after the fight?
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Aug 10, 2022 21:00
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Unlucky7 posted:Have you checked if there was an auto save after the fight? Nope! Regardless, done, Legacy Preserved. Great game 75% of the time, janky SNES JRPG like 25% of it, and really I probably brought 10% of that on myself since from what I can tell no one made me do those bonus dungeons for characters I never fielded, especially since there’s a golden topknot in the final dungeon anyway. Question: what changed from the SNES version, assuming I got the perfect ending? Is the default ending just the JRPG-rear end bald angel Odio that ends with him dying with “the seed of Odio exists inside everyone”?
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Aug 13, 2022 16:40
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Last Celebration posted:Nope! In the SNES version the game ended with Purity of Odio, the chapter boss refights, and Oersted's speech, yes. The entire Sin of Odio encounter and Oersted's Big Moment is new to the remake's version of the best ending.
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Aug 13, 2022 16:51
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Heya! Finally started the game yesterday and it's been a blast: I tried the SNES translation but was turned away by the SNES limitations, so this remake is a successful attempt IMO. That said I have a question about Prehistory: Is it ok to fight King Mammoth at 12-13 instead of 16? Exp is starting to dry up. And what would be the best move outise of the Ultimate to use? Obv going with best equipment, Rock of Rocks + 4 pretty flowers for SpAtt
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Aug 14, 2022 21:09
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:Heya! Finally started the game yesterday and it's been a blast: I tried the SNES translation but was turned away by the SNES limitations, so this remake is a successful attempt IMO. Using the poke to keep King Mammoth stunned should give you the best odds, but it'll still be an uphill battle. The best move in that case is the jump attack that deals recoil damage on a miss. Stun prevents attacks from missing, so you'll be dealing maximum damage with no risk. It'll require a bit more luck, since you'll need the stun to stick a few more times, but the jump attack can be done at range, so you're not at risk of KM using the lava explosion the second the stun wears off, at least. Also, finally made my way to the remake's Final Chapter and I'm gonna double down on saying that the AG fan translation of the SNES version remains a must-play, because both versions of Oersted's final chapter have their own unique strong points. Oersted's delivery in the remake is excellent, and the Armageddon Ending gets one hell of a glow-up (no pun intended), but I think a lot of the speeches come off better in the SNES version. I think because they're more direct, they have a bit more punch to them than the more flowery renditions in the remake. That tends to be the defining difference in the writing, is that the more verbose prose improves a lot of the normal dialog, but many of the more hard-hitting lines have their impact softened by it, compared to the AG versions.
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Aug 14, 2022 21:32
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:Heya! Finally started the game yesterday and it's been a blast: I tried the SNES translation but was turned away by the SNES limitations, so this remake is a successful attempt IMO. I beat King Mammoth at level 9, so it's totally possible. Just keep your distance, keep him on poison tiles as much as you can, and try to interrupt the lava field set attack with Pogo's jump attack. So long as you have a decent amount of healing, the fight's more annoying than difficult. (The Fertility Idol can help there if Gori doesn't need to put more poison on the field.)
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Aug 14, 2022 22:33
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Oh yeah, level 12 was enoguh. Obv the biggest problem was Poke Bind missing and thus the boss getting off attacks, but as long as I throw the poop and get some heals my damage was enough. Hell, Poke Bind was doing 70~ VS the 110~ from jumping. Of course the problem is getting the drop 
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Aug 14, 2022 22:48
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Am I really the only weird one who likes Yun? I feel like narratively it makes for the best story to choose him / he would be the protagonist of that type of story if it was in a non-interactive medium like a movie where you couldn't choose. You know what with the other two already being fairly strong from the beginning, and his whole recruitment arc with him being physically weak and the shifu calling him "stronger" than his physically intimidating bullies since he has the strength of spirit to stand up to them, him having to beg the shifu to accept him as a disciple etc. And just generally it seems like the best story for the one who seems physically weakest in the beginning to have the most potential and growth and eventually inherit the title of master. Similarly with how the game designs its mechanics to reflect narrative, you could reasonably expect the one who initially has the lowest stats/level to have good enough stat growths to become equal to or surpass the others, though I suppose that's not the case at least for his max HP. Still it's not an issue in most cases if you avoid putting him in a risky position, and outside of maybe some optional bosses the game is not really difficult enough that you have to min/max everything. It just seems like everyone in discussions about the game is always on Team Lei outside of a couple people who like Hong, granted it's understandable since they're all likeable characters and choosing Lei is the only way to prevent the cast of the game from being all dudes + 1 robot. I guess I just feel like Yun is really underappreciated, I think he's a cool choice for the reasons I stated above.
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Aug 15, 2022 06:09
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Yun was my first choice as a kid and I kept that when I played it in the remake. I did like his arc where he went from a weak nobody to the successor.
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Aug 15, 2022 06:16
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Yun's a nice kid he's just kinda boring compared to the other two, both narratively and mechanically (Lei and Sammo's unique moves have ranges/patterns that aren't found in the Xin Shan Quan moveset, giving you more incentive to use them). I don't think anyone dislikes him, they just like the others better.
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Aug 15, 2022 06:20
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Item Getter posted:Am I really the only weird one who likes Yun? I feel like narratively it makes for the best story to choose him / he would be the protagonist of that type of story if it was in a non-interactive medium like a movie where you couldn't choose. You know what with the other two already being fairly strong from the beginning, and his whole recruitment arc with him being physically weak and the shifu calling him "stronger" than his physically intimidating bullies since he has the strength of spirit to stand up to them, him having to beg the shifu to accept him as a disciple etc. And just generally it seems like the best story for the one who seems physically weakest in the beginning to have the most potential and growth and eventually inherit the title of master. Similarly with how the game designs its mechanics to reflect narrative, you could reasonably expect the one who initially has the lowest stats/level to have good enough stat growths to become equal to or surpass the others, though I suppose that's not the case at least for his max HP. Still it's not an issue in most cases if you avoid putting him in a risky position, and outside of maybe some optional bosses the game is not really difficult enough that you have to min/max everything. The issue with Yun is that he's the most expected and generic one. It isn't statwise, it is that he is absolutely the kind of dude who would end up the protagonist in another JRPG and that is exactly why nobody wants to pick him. You can get Yuns in all sorts of JRPGs. Lei is extremely cool and has a great arc that fits well with the narrative of the game and Hong is so outside of the norm that he fits the 'weird-rear end protagonist' concept the game is going for. He isn't terrible or anything but he's a dime a dozen type and I don't need a dime a dozen type in my game about Adorable Circle Robot, Cowboy, Caveman and Psychic Biker Mecha Pilot.
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Aug 15, 2022 06:20
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I mean, I liked Yun too, he’s just a good kid who wants to do his best without having any “innate” talents, but getting a female protagonist in a martial arts story who has a story about becoming a kinder person rather than the cliche of a girl proving she can be as strong as a man is about as interesting, even by today’s standard’s. plus, knowing how things play out, I genuinely cannot ever see myself picking anyone but Lei on a replay partly for gameplay purposes, at least as far as going to the Void of Hatred, because sadly the other two don’t get holy-elemental screen clear moves they can just pop off at the start of a fight because they’re ALSO super fast. I’d probably feel slightly differently on story too if the other two just got incapacitated too badly to fight anymore though, not gonna lie.
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Aug 15, 2022 06:23
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ImpAtom posted:The issue with Yun is that he's the most expected and generic one. It isn't statwise, it is that he is absolutely the kind of dude who would end up the protagonist in another JRPG and that is exactly why nobody wants to pick him. You can get Yuns in all sorts of JRPGs. Lei is extremely cool and has a great arc that fits well with the narrative of the game and Hong is so outside of the norm that he fits the 'weird-rear end protagonist' concept the game is going for. Fair enough, it's why he seemed like the natural choice to me but I can see why that would make him boring for a lot of people. Speaking of the Psychic Biker Mecha Pilot, I think it's a little strange that they chose to end his chapter with the cliche sort of "It was all just a dream.... or was it???" type ending, but I guess it all really happened anyway since Odeo is placed on the same boss-rush pantheon as all the other Odios and Akira keeps all of his items from the chapter etc. And all that is basically mandated by the larger structure of the game, which makes you wonder why they chose to end the chapter that way at all. Granted I haven't tried selecting him as the final chapter protagonist so not sure if it's addressed there.
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Aug 15, 2022 06:52
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EclecticTastes posted:Using the poke to keep King Mammoth stunned should give you the best odds, but it'll still be an uphill battle. The best move in that case is the jump attack that deals recoil damage on a miss. Stun prevents attacks from missing, so you'll be dealing maximum damage with no risk. It'll require a bit more luck, since you'll need the stun to stick a few more times, but the jump attack can be done at range, so you're not at risk of KM using the lava explosion the second the stun wears off, at least. I do like Oersted's final lines in his version of the Final Chapter: "Believe in me!". One part victory cry, and other part cry for help from the man that he used to have been. Item Getter posted:Speaking of the Psychic Biker Mecha Pilot, I think it's a little strange that they chose to end his chapter with the cliche sort of "It was all just a dream.... or was it???" type ending, but I guess it all really happened anyway since Odeo is placed on the same boss-rush pantheon as all the other Odios and Akira keeps all of his items from the chapter etc. And all that is basically mandated by the larger structure of the game, which makes you wonder why they chose to end the chapter that way at all. Granted I haven't tried selecting him as the final chapter protagonist so not sure if it's addressed there. I kind of feel that the last third of Akira's chapter kind of collapses upon itself, where the revelations aren't really given enough air to breath, if they even make sense at all. At least you got to pilot a giant robot!
Unlucky7 fucked around with this message at 07:32 on Aug 15, 2022 |
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Aug 15, 2022 07:28
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Yun was my first choice back when I played the game back in the SNES version because the narrative conventions invoked all but outright say, "hey, this guy will be the strongest one in the end!" But in the story itself, the Earthen Heart Shifu says that he didn't ask Yun to join him as a student because Yun was already strong. Similarly, Hong already knew the right thing to do, but he lacked the power to put that inner strength to proper purpose, and hunger and desperation drove him to do wrong. With Lei, meanwhile, there's never any attempt to soften her starting position: she's a bandit, and she hurts people so she can take their stuff. Even in the final chapter, she doesn't offer any excuses for who she was. So I think it's fitting that the true strongest successor of the Earthen Heart is a bad person who, when given the opportunity to change, seizes the opportunity to begin on the long road to becoming someone better. Item Getter posted:Fair enough, it's why he seemed like the natural choice to me but I can see why that would make him boring for a lot of people. Nah, he wakes up in the park at the end, but that's a bookends thing, since that's how he begins the chapter in the first place. It's there to contrast where he begins and where he ends the story. Akira's arc has him start out as a self-centered brat defined by his power and his powers, and he finishes it having followed in Matsu's footsteps, as a person who had power and who set that power aside to live a mundane life centered around helping others.
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Aug 15, 2022 07:39
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I think the ending to Near Future is just doing the anime fakeout thing with the ending because Near Future is unabashedly a big old anime love letter and it definitely for real happened, which is why Akira has Lawless’s bike and tayaki stand.
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Aug 15, 2022 07:45
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Item Getter posted:Fair enough, it's why he seemed like the natural choice to me but I can see why that would make him boring for a lot of people. The framing device of Akira's chapter is that he's recounting his story to the player, and the ending bit is his reverie being interrupted by a customer. The actual way things played out when the liquefied humans went berserk isn't actually important, is the takeaway. The devs also likely intended to leave it to the player's imagination, as they may have felt the SNES was not up to the task of properly rendering the sort of crazy, over-the-top "ending of AKIRA" spectacle one would expect from the way things were going.
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Aug 15, 2022 08:00
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EclecticTastes posted:The framing device of Akira's chapter is that he's recounting his story to the player, and the ending bit is his reverie being interrupted by a customer. Yeah that makes the most sense of anything, though I think it didn't really work since that framing device was dropped after the very beginning of the chapter so it's easy to forget that it was there at all. They probably should have had Akira narrate directly to the player a time or two later in the chapter to remind you that it's how the story is being told. So since that was only done at the beginning, instead I think that me and probably a lot of other people came off with the mistaken impression that the game was implying that it was all a dream. Maybe it should have gone back to the shot of the eyes with Akira saying something about the ending and getting cut off mid-sentence by the kid asking for taiyaki. Item Getter fucked around with this message at 08:34 on Aug 15, 2022 |
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Aug 15, 2022 08:24
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Item Getter posted:Yeah that makes the most sense of anything, though I think it didn't really work since that framing device was dropped after the very beginning of the chapter so it's easy to forget that it was there at all. They probably should have had Akira narrate directly to the player a time or two later in the chapter to remind you that it's how the story is being told. So since that was only done at the beginning, instead I think that me and probably a lot of other people came off with the mistaken impression that the game was implying that it was all a dream. Maybe it should have gone back to the shot of the eyes with Akira saying something about the ending and getting cut off mid-sentence by the kid asking for taiyaki. See, my alternate interpretation, and this may be based on seeing it happen in other media, is that the story just skipped that part as a sort of "Will the hero survive?! Just kidding, they totally did!" moment. I never got the impression that it might have been a dream. Like, there's lots of "cut to the hero waking up" beats that aren't "it was a dream".
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Aug 15, 2022 08:41
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When I played Akira's chapter for the first time back in the day I was definitely a bit confused about the ending. But yeah, I think it's just meant to be "he survived, you figure out how". The interpretation I like to think happened is that the Liquefied Humans recognized that Akira had helped them get their revenge and chose to save him in the end.
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Aug 15, 2022 10:26
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Thuryl posted:When I played Akira's chapter for the first time back in the day I was definitely a bit confused about the ending. But yeah, I think it's just meant to be "he survived, you figure out how". The interpretation I like to think happened is that the Liquefied Humans recognized that Akira had helped them get their revenge and chose to save him in the end. I had the thought that Matsu wound up liquefied as the 2000 souls were invading Buriki Daioh, and his personality just took over and made them back down and, like, do whatever extremely anime thing they did to stop being a threat, like collapse into a new universe or whatever.
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Aug 15, 2022 10:38
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Kinda curious what happened to those liquefacted humans, it sort of seems more hosed up than the Void of Hatred’s implications for the Middle Ages since that sure wasn’t over a thousand people that got turned into liquid goo entity as fuel for a giant chicken. Hope Doc made new bodies for them or something!
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Aug 15, 2022 11:16
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Next episode,
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Aug 15, 2022 16:04
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I think (I know EVA came out a year later it's just really funny to me to think the devs wrote the chapter the way they did as a dig to "anime ran out of money" occurrence that happens so often) 
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Aug 15, 2022 18:29
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On the Near Future chapter, are there any must haves for the final chapter through item enhancing? What's the best equipmwnt you can get?
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Aug 16, 2022 17:38
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Get some of the robot accessories for Cube and Taeko's Furious Fist for Masaru
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Aug 16, 2022 17:57
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:On the Near Future chapter, are there any must haves for the final chapter through item enhancing? What's the best equipmwnt you can get? I'm going to break from tradition here and say that none of the robot accessories are very good. Cube's always going to be one of your least effective attackers and the robot accessories aren't really going to change that, so his turns are better spent healing or using items. Make a couple with any attack items you get and then don't spend much more time thinking about it. (It's also not important for the chapter itself, since the one normal boss fight is a gimmick fight.) The other Near-Future equipment also isn't that impressive compared to other stuff available in the final chapter, so make Akira some decent gear and then leave it there.
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Aug 16, 2022 19:00
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I got some use out of Taeko's Furious Fist (Masaru can equip it if you give Akira something else), and the Full-Body Tights.
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Aug 16, 2022 20:43
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Bongo Bill posted:I got some use out of Taeko's Furious Fist (Masaru can equip it if you give Akira something else), and the Full-Body Tights. You can upgrade the weapons in Akira's chapter into more copies of Taeko's fist so they can both equip it. Also you get so much underwear (crochet and badges) that you can go into the chapter with enough Jushin Wrestling Shirts for everyone (it's not the best armor, but it's a solid stand-in for anyone who doesn't start out with much, until better items come along). And that's not even getting into the absolute embarrassment of Rider Belts you can end up with, to make sure everyone's accessory slots are full up.
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Aug 16, 2022 21:02
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