Why every gamer should give SHMUPs a try: Bullet hell hath no fury

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Why every gamer should give SHMUPs a try: Bullet hell hath no fury

japtor: Oct 28, 2005

(tl;dr I got into them in college and that eventually turned into getting some arcade cabs)

While I've always had them in my rotation growing up and definitely got in a few looking back, I'd say it was college when I really got into them. I had an hour to kill between classes and there was an arcade on campus so gravitated there of course. Got my rear end handed to me whenever I played a fighting game and eventually made my way over to the back corner with Strikers 1945 III (aka 1999) and Gunbird 2, where no one could cut my play time short :v:

.

Put a few quarters in every day and started to get pretty decent at Strikers in particular. I think I started with a dollar but got decent enough to only need a quarter or two to last me a while, with the rest of the time watching others play, with particular interest around the Tech Bonus boss kills. And iirc it had a persistent top score along with the daily leaderboard, so I had some goals to go after as I got better. Eventually by the end of the quarter I got the top score, with the previous owner watching at the time no less :smugbert:

(never did 1CC it though :argh:

).

At some point during all this I discovered Cave's games in MAME among others, got a Saturn for the games there, etc. All kind of culminated with buying myself an Astro City for my graduation present and getting into PCBs, luckily while that stuff was in fairly low demand before prices skyrocketed a few years later...my big regret is never getting DoDonPachi back then :cry:

. I did get Ketsui though, and that remains one of my favorites.

These days I've recently got a modded Vewlix and stuck my Switch in there. I've been able to play Progear in emulation for years (poo poo, decades!) but only just recently played enough to get a handle on the scoring system and absolutely love it. Horizontal shmups have always been a bit of a blind spot for me so open to suggestions there on Switch. I have a decent number but I feel like Black Bird and Progear are the only ones that have really stuck for me.

quote:

==========> Music Analogy <==========
DoDonPachi is a song that's pretty easy to play in the beginning, and gets harder and harder. It's a song that lasts 45 bloody minutes. And the last few minutes are horribly hard to play.
When approaching this kind of work with mastery in mind, you may naturally try playing the song until you reach parts that seem way too hard for you. Then you will start over from the beginning until you reach them again. And again. And again. After a while, you will realize it's pretty stupid to play through the easy parts every time you want to try the first part that is hard for you, so you will start focusing on the hard parts. Bar by bar, you will decompose and study the song. The hardest bars will be the bars you study and practice the most.
=======> End of Music Analogy <=======

Practicing the hardest parts the most is a somewhat foreign concept to me cause it's not an option in the arcades :v:

. Never got into it myself, although the occasional credit feed accomplishes some of the same effect. What keeps the "easy" parts fun is the scoring recognition/mastery element. It's like discovering a whole other composition for those parts that makes the music sound even more amazing.

# ¿ Aug 3, 2022 11:45

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 08:19

japtor: Oct 28, 2005

Jimlit posted:

Probably going to get laughed out of here but Bullet Hell Monday is what kicked off my love for bullet hell shooters. Personally I think its one of the best intros to the genre's more obscure mechanics you can get. The downside is I believe its mobile only.

Link: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.msykit.Stg1x2g&hl=en_US&gl=US

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb4881WJTaA

Looks like it's planned to be coming out on Windows this year:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2003660/Bullet_Hell_Monday/

Hell I think the Danmaku Unlimited series started on mobile, and I've put a lot of time into the mobile Cave ports myself. And still the only way to play Aka to Blue outside of arcades :argh:

beer gas canister posted:

Credit feeding definitely does work. I find that periodically running further into the game allows me to discover new mechanical concepts that might be less obvious on early levels, often because the scoring rate ramps up. I've been using practice primarily for mini-bosses, like the big plane mini boss in Progear level 2, and main bosses.

Just realized my sentence was kinda mixed up there, I do occasionally credit feed, but could never get into the singular/situational practice that's available in console releases for whatever reason. Maybe starts feeling like work at a certain point vs just playing for me. I should try the rewind stuff where available though now that I think about it, it'd be akin to the checkpoints in the Trials series, where I have no problem resetting constantly to get segments down.

# ¿ Aug 3, 2022 18:57

japtor: Oct 28, 2005

For the beginners, the novice modes in the Cave console ports (of the ones I've played at least) are pretty dang good. They're significantly more manageable than the default arcade modes, while not being a cakewalk. Easy enough to get into while still having enough of a challenge to grow and work your way up through.

Social Animal posted:

I recently got a 2 all in Dodonpachi and I have no idea how long it would have taken me to get that playing in an arcade. I think I read that it took like six months for the first player to clear the game and I can't imagine how many hours playing and watching the other players went into that. Save states/training modes are a godsend but I can get why it would be a bore to people. I tend to just do full runs these days but man some of these tough ones have me running into training mode lol.

Yeah I totally get it, but at my level I'm fairly satisfied with just going for the (basic 1-all) 1CC or whatever best I can do at this point. I've only gotten a few 1CCs but the pattern is the same in the sense of just playing regularly and slowly improving in various ways. I don't mind the slow grind I guess, cause ultimately I'm just playing the game rather than consciously working on getting better. I think the hard part these days for me is just playing a game consistently enough cause the whole backlog and short attention span affects my little shmup world too.

# ¿ Aug 4, 2022 08:23

japtor: Oct 28, 2005

bare bottom pancakes posted:

There's a lot of merit in looking for easier games, but my recommendation is just to play a game you like a little too much.

I have no idea how many hours I put into the game anymore, but I made it to stage 2-3 of DoDonPachi DaiOuJou White Label a few years ago and I'd love to get back to that point sometime!

Yeah ultimately the ideal is to find something that just clicks so you keep on playing. As for DDP DOJ, that should be pretty doable! I feel like once you get a feel for things, (the 5 stage) Cave games are actually pretty accessible through stage 3 before ramping things up significantly in both 4 and 5.

beer gas canister posted:

Rolling Gunner, Ikaruga and Psyvariar Delta all have chunky 3D graphics. People have raved about Rolling Gunner since release, I think some ex-CAVE staff worked on it or something. The two Darius collections might do it for you too.

For 3D I'm not sure there's anything in the console and arcade Darius collections iirc, but G-Darius and Dariusburst fit the bill and are sold separately in the US (I think in a collection in Japan?). They're on sale at the moment too! Course the annoying bit with those two is that they're only in 4:3 or 32:9, no remastered 16:9 mode or anything in either...even though the latter has a full on 16:9 console optimized version in every other home release :argh:

Another 3D one would be Sisters Royale by Alfa System Works, which is actually their first shooter since Castle of Shikigami III on Dreamcast :v:

Oh forgot about Deathsmiles II, technically came out later but ooh boy it certainly looks like rough 3D. It has a maligned rep but I didn't mind playing it.

One or two of the new Cotton games is 3D I think (Reboot and Rock n Roll?) and they seem to be decent fun.

# ¿ Aug 5, 2022 17:01

japtor: Oct 28, 2005

B33rChiller posted:

It's the best shmup on android

Tried Aka to Blue?

quote:

I'll add that I really enjoyed a bunch of shmups on my old computer. Had mame working pretty well. Donpachi and dodonpachi, strikers 1945 II (3 never clicked), dragon blaze, gunbird2, and 19xx (no Capcom shooter love here?)
Jamestown is good on steam.
And I just got a switch, so time for some new shmups.
I have loved these games since life-force on nes, but have always been pretty bad. Oh well. Having fun dieing.

Oh, and I hope I can play online head to head with that switch version of twinkle star sprites.

Do Capcom published shooters like Mars Matrix, Progear, and Cannon Spike count? :v:

I don't think the ACA Neo-Geo releases have online unfortunately. There is a newer indie game you might like though, Rival Megagun...but I don't think it has cross play so might be hard to find a game on Switch unless you can coordinate with people to match up. It's half off right now at least.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2022 08:42

japtor: Oct 28, 2005

secretly best girl posted:

I'm more of a Konami apologist than most, but their incredibly slapdash approach to compilations in the past 15 years is infuriating. I was hoping the set of arcade + Castlevania comps was leading to something, but nope, there was never any further followup outside of the GBA Castlevania collection.

This is a company that did some absolutely deep and involved ports all the time from the CD era through the PSP, and then suddenly it became "we'll crap out an infamous Silent Hill compilation and stop, lol" once the PS360 Gen rolled around. I guess there was that half-baked Metal Gear one too, same period.

Haven't followed in a while but vaguely recall various news at different times of them basically killing everything that wasn't pachinko or Metal Gear or PES. You'd think they'd take some relatively easy money with compilations. I just want to play Gradius V :cry:

beer gas canister posted:

G-Darius is so loving cool

Yeah the console release is one of the ones that planted the seeds for me way back, it's such a great spectacle all around.

Need to play Dariusburst more, just have the Switch version so only 32:9 but got to play a bit of it with my nephew on a bigger screen this weekend and was pretty cool (and he liked the music, he is a young man of culture). Gotta remember to try it out on my projector sometime.

# ¿ Aug 16, 2022 19:22

japtor: Oct 28, 2005

Danmaku Unlimited 3 is half off on the Switch for anyone interested in that one.

Ineptitude posted:

I wish you all would stop posting about shmups i want to play that are not available for Switch

I want Blue Revolver :negative:

Sobatchja Morda posted:

It's also sold in a bundle with Space Moth, which I really should give a serious try one of these days. Is it any good?

It seemed solid enough from what I played but didn't figure out the nuances of its mechanic too much.

# ¿ Aug 17, 2022 10:15

japtor: Oct 28, 2005

madmatt112 posted:

I�d love to try some shmuppin on my iPhone - any recommendations for iOS?

Aka to Blue is the one I bring up, Bullet Hell Monday and Danmaku Unlimited 3 have come up a few times. Almost forgot rRootage is on there too but no clue about the quality.

Cave has a few ports that are solid (if they still work), but DoDonPachi Maximum is the most mobile friendly in the way it's structured and such...cause it was made for mobile to begin with.

# ¿ Aug 19, 2022 01:13

japtor: Oct 28, 2005

Mode 7 posted:

Thanks for the recommendations earlier folks - ended up grabbing Raging Blasters and Progear. Haven't sunk much time into Progear but the visual style is stunning, working on Normal mode of Raging Blasters at the moment and inching towards a 1CC.

Ooh is Raging Blasters basically a Star Soldier homage? I remember getting into the caravan one on the Wii shop way back, can't remember if that ever got fleshed out to a full game or exists anywhere else.

Unlucky7 posted:

Right now I am cutting my teeth on Danmaku Unlimited 3 (On Easy mode...), and while it is a fine game, I kind of wish it has a more chunkier, pixel art asthetic.

Yes I have ZeroRanger.

Kinda like it as an alternative cause it seems like so much else is already chunky as far as shmups go :v:

. Overall it feels...perfectly cromulent, I need to put more time into it.

Picardy Beet posted:

Didn't see Pawarumi in the easy shmup recommandations, so here it goes. It's a nice shmup with a color -based rock-paper-scissors gimmick. It's set in a SF-mayan theme.

Haven't played this in a while but the Switch one felt a little laggy iirc. Looks nice but never clicked with the 3 color setup as far as being able to consistently/immediately attack with the right color. But yeah difficulty wise it seemed pretty friendly if you're looking for that and fancy graphics.

Jester Mcgee posted:

Thanks for the arcade stick recommendations. When I started poking around the internet about them it seemed like all the information was for people wanting to build a custom arcade stick, which seemed a bit out of my depth. I'll definitely check out Crimson Clover, it seems to be pretty much universally liked.

Yeah the arcade stick community is heavy on customization cause you kinda want to do it to the cheaper sticks to make them better, while the nicer ones can get pricey enough that you might as well consider going full custom at some point. From a quick search on Amazon for Switch compatible sticks:

The 8bitdo one is decent, easily moddable iirc, and unlike 99% of sticks out there (including customs) it can also do wireless:
https://www.amazon.com/8Bitdo-Arcade-Stick-Switch-Windows-nintendo/dp/B08GJC5WSS/

Mayflash is a decent generic but cheaper and iirc another moddable one to work with:
https://www.amazon.com/MAYFLASH-Arcade-Stick-F101-Switch/dp/B07D26RD9P/

On the higher end is the Hori Real Arcade Pro (HRAP) but not sure the Switch version is still on sale, no buying options on Amazon it seems. Might be able to find them used for decently cheap.

If you use a ~$20-30 adapter like the Mayflash Magic ones, you can use whatever sticks for PS3/4 and such that open up the options, like the Qanba Drone:
https://www.amazon.com/Qanba-Drone-PlayStation-4/dp/B01I0GEDEY/

Haven't seen this one so don't know much about it, but conceptually this stuff is cool if you're used to keyboards:
https://www.amazon.com/Joystick-Controller-Fighting-Nintendo-Xbox-One/dp/B09D7NJ1NJ/

On the wackier but similar end of things is custom keyboard stuff on Etsy like thnikk's Fightboards:
https://www.etsy.com/shop/thnikk?ref=simple-shop-header-name&listing_id=786877857

(...then there's Hit Boxes and Snack Boxes but I'm thinking that layout might be weird for shooters)

As for myself I have a full custom mini one I did, an AllFightSticks custom (also mini)...and Sega Astro City and Taito Vewlix cabs. And a Blast City but still haven't gotten that set up yet. And an old modded MadCatz stick which is lost somewhere at my parents' house :ughh:

. Oh and a Fightboard LP! It's basically the most portable "stick" that I bring around if I don't want to bring my actual stick.

# ¿ Aug 21, 2022 19:58

japtor: Oct 28, 2005

The Voice of Labor posted:

not only is each color weak/strong against other colors, correct attack color is also how you charge your shields and bombs. there's a lot of stuff to remember, like, I'm sure it looked really elegant on paper, but shmups don't generally leave a lot of brain time left over after the constant high speed precise dodging and weaving

Yeah I remember it being compared to Ikaruga but adding a third color is a massive change. Goes from being a simple one or the other thing, to all the different color combinations in Pawarumi. It just broke my brain.

Social Animal posted:

What's up fellow AFS 10 incher? Only complaint is I wish there was a joystick mount instead of having to use spacers and poo poo but whatever. Currently packing Sanwa stick and buttons on there and it's just great for everything.

Mine's a 9.5"! Or 9" I forget, got it way back before that size disappeared (still might be available if they still take custom orders). I forget the construction details but might've been slightly different from the others, I do remember it being less customizable.

# ¿ Aug 22, 2022 16:49

japtor: Oct 28, 2005

Deviant posted:

arcade sticks are old news

hitbox is the way and the light

I feel like the Hitbox layout would be weird for shmups. Get a Mixbox :colbert:

beer gas canister posted:

I'm going to continue with Novice modes in other games. Probably Mushihimesama next, but I'll keep chipping away at ESPrade in training mode. Mushi Novice doesn't have a training mode so it will probably take a while. DU3 is on the list too. I'd like to do Progear someday as well but that turned out to be WAY harder than I first estimated so that can wait I've improved my overall skill.

Nice on the Crimzon Clover clear! For whatever reason I haven't tried Novice yet, instead just have always bashed my head on the harder modes and barely get anywhere. But the Cave Novice modes I've tried have been great so those should be fun for you. How far have you gotten with Progear?

beer gas canister posted:

I like Steredenn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYgA0NZSB_M

I need to play this one some more. The lack of button remapping ( :argh:

) made the layout a bit weird on an arcade stick. I know the Switch can do it at the system level, but it's a global setting rather than per game last I checked, so it'd be annoying to use just for this.

# ¿ Aug 25, 2022 09:02

japtor: Oct 28, 2005

beer gas canister posted:

I can almost make it to stage 3 without dying. 3 isn't bad, but 4 and especially 5 are nuts.

I feel like a lot of Cave games are like that, like levels 1-3 have a more gradual difficulty progression before huge jumps for both 4 and 5.

FishMcCool posted:

I'm absolutely impressed at how crazy it looks while remaining quite manageable in the end. It definitely feels a lot more approachable than the 1941/42/43 of yore.

I�d say this applies to modern shmups in general, which is why it�s unfortunate that some people are put off by how difficult they can look.

# ¿ Aug 27, 2022 00:55

japtor: Oct 28, 2005

After The War posted:

The first SHMUPs I had of my own were Commodore ones like Uridium and Bulldog which had you flying over massive ships that were easier for the machine to handle than moving space backgrounds or landscapes. Is there anything else with that same kind of feel, where you're this tiny, insignificant thing taking out huge dreadnoughts that make up the entire level?

I'd say Eschatos has elements of that with some of the bosses. Otherwise it's really cool and fun and you should play it regardless.

The Voice of Labor posted:

uh you mean y'all aren't playing arcade pcbs on superguns?

Superguns? I play them on cabs :smugbert:

Vaporware posted:

Is there a PS2 controller that is more friendly to mobility issues? Every time I decide to play a game these days my hands regret it for weeks. I think I'm gripping the controller too hard, and the last controller I used was the switch pro, and it's relatively friendly. I'll have to start looking into accessibilty controllers I guess.

I was >< close to buying justice silversword back in the day, but I couldn't drop the $300 back then. lol now. I just need to get a wonderswan emu card, but they're rarely in-stock when I check.

I'd consider an arcade stick, I remember (temporarily) messing up my hands/wrists way back with the Trials games on 360 and could get around it by playing on a stick. The movements are different enough that it might help you too. And there's adapters for modern stuff to PS2 like this Brook one so you could try that Switch controller even, or a newer console stick if you go that route.

Also Judgement Silversword is in the Switch/PS4 Eschatos release!

# ¿ Aug 29, 2022 20:15

japtor: Oct 28, 2005

KennyMan666 posted:

Console ports of Cave games tend to have Novice modes, which are pretty friendly.

Yep they're great, seems like they'd be perfect for what the OP is looking for.

The Voice of Labor posted:

I can't remember if it was giga wing or gw2, but the central mechanic was a bullet cancel/shield thing and if you get the hang of it, it made the game fairly easy up until, like, the last two levels.

If only Mars Matrix was in the compilations :argh:

, it had a better version of the reflect mechanic.

# ¿ Sep 18, 2022 18:46

japtor: Oct 28, 2005

giogadi posted:

I�ve only had maybe 20 minutes with RS but it�s already hard for me to stop thinking about. The number of weapon options you get is crazy and it�s fun seeing where each weapon works, but it�s definitely overwhelming. The chain system is also interesting, but I like ikaruga�s better since in that case you aren�t encouraged to just avoid all the other non-chain colors, so I�m looking forward to unlocking that mode.

What is the difference between arcade and story? Also is �score attack� simply �no continues and scores go on the leaderboard�?

Yeah score should just be arcade with no continues and whatever standard life/extend options (vs being able to tweak that in arcade). Besides the story stuff and saved weapon leveling (that levels way slower according to a streamer I saw), story mode also goes through all the levels iirc, whereas in arcade there's a branch.

For anyone playing on an arcade stick I recommend trying out the 3 button layout, where it's vulcan, homing, spread, then all the other weapons are combinations of those. There's a logic to it that's pretty simple to figure out. And the sub weapons level the main weapons I think? I saw a comment saying the sword levels all three so don't forget to go for sword play too :v:

beer gas canister posted:

I thought Astebreed was janky poo poo until someone pointed out that it's way easier than other shmups, save for 2 difficulty spikes including the final boss. It's all about style and scoring like a character action game. Pretty sure it does have a regular fire button, I got all the way to the final boss without using the right stick. I'm a big fan of it now.

Haven't played for a while but yeah there's a fire button and way to play it on a stick. I think there's two modes, or two control modes, and one might require analog(s), but the other can be set up for a stick fine. I forget if you need to tweak an option or not though.

# ¿ Sep 21, 2022 01:34

japtor: Oct 28, 2005

galagazombie posted:

Why do shmups always have such awesome titles? There�s a way bigger proportion of games with awesome sounding names than other genres.

Space Invaders must've set the bar pretty high.

Just thinking of Cave's stuff, DoDonPachi's English sequel titles are fun, and as for DP/DDP itself, Wikipedia has this:

quote:

As with its predecessor DonPachi, the title is both a Japanese term for expressing the sound of gunfire, and a term that relates to bees (here it means "angry leader bee").

Then you have official names:
(Bee Storm, the one no one ever speaks of...)
Blissful Death
Resurrection
True Death

I forget if Ketsui (...kizuna jigoku tachi) has an official English name but I've seen this one before which is probably my favorite ridiculous name/translation, but totally applicable:
Determination: Those who are bound to hell

# ¿ Sep 21, 2022 08:31

japtor: Oct 28, 2005

Vadun posted:

Why do I keep seeing people talk about Steredenn, what am I missing?

I just looped a Blaster only run on my PS3 and it ran like poo poo, the randomized waves and powerups were frustrating and the shield being a different sized hit box than your ship seems insane to me.

Are people referring to the sequel, or is there a better version on PC or something?

I guess you have plain "Steredenn" whereas the one on Switch and presumably everything else these days is "Steredenn: Binary Stars" which I guess is an expansion/sequel.

My main problem on the Switch version is that the buttons can't be remapped, and it's a crappy layout for playing on an arcade stick.

# ¿ Oct 16, 2022 08:35

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 08:19

japtor: Oct 28, 2005

B33rChiller posted:

Now I'm wondering if this arcade stick is any good for taiko no tatsujin.

I was gonna say music games can be good too...although a lot of it depends on button configuration/customization. Hell ideally you'd just play on the buttons but I forget there was a comfortable config for that in taiko. One game I have played a bunch is Muse Dash (warning: some of the art is pretty horny), iirc it's just high and low hit buttons...although I mostly play on a stickless controller (which can be had for cheap these days!).

Speaking of which, there's a stick/stickless controller thread if you look into modding or whatever:
https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4004058

Anyway back to games with stick, I'll play whatever possible. Pretty much anything that doesn't require dual stick usage and isn't terribly weird or complex button layout wise. Like I played through Cuphead on my cab, but took a while of experimentation to get the buttons mapped in a way that felt ok and for some muscle memoization to get set. Celeste would be fine too I imagine, but felt a little weird to me cause the climb/hold button and didn't stick with it (already played through on pad and was just messing with it). I played through the Trials games (uh...motorcycle platformer?) on stick, vehicular stuff works if they're arcadey enough.

Puzzle games are great of course, although that's one place where I think the joycons are actually solid (barring wireless flakiness); Puzzle Bobble is one of my puzzle favs if Tetris doesn't work for you. Otherwise easy filter would be anything retro arcade cause the standard wiring setup was just a stick and 3 buttons outside of fighting games.

# ¿ Apr 17, 2024 19:00

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Why every gamer should give SHMUPs a try: Bullet hell hath no fury