|
I decided to make a thread about a passion of mine, the great game of table soccer, known commonly as foosball in the U.S. What is it? It’s a table top representation of the game of soccer. This thread will be written from the standpoint of Tornado foosball, the table type most used in competition in tournaments in the U.S., but if owners or enthusiasts of other types of tables want to chime in any input is welcome.  Tables will usually have four rods for the team on each side, two on offense and two on defense. When players are playing doubles one will play offense and one will play defense. In singles each player controls all the rods on their side and smoothly and quickly moving between rods in transition is a key to success. On a Tornado table such as the one shown, the front offensive rod has three men, this is what is being referred to when people talk about the “three bar” or “three row”. (Even though the Tornado table also has three men on the goalie rod) It’s the most important rod for scoring as only the two defensive rods stand between it and the goal. In competitive doubles matches, there is usually a division of labor in most teams where the offensive player or forward is responsible for scoring most of the goals, defending the opposing forward's attempts to pass from their 5 bar to their 3 bar, and participating in a solid zone defensive scheme against any scoring attempts from the opposing goalie. The goalie's primary duty is to defend the goal first and foremost, then to clear the ball out of their end of the table. If clearing the ball results in a goal, or a pass to the forward's 3 bar, that's a bonus but not required for successful goalie play. There are players who have wicked shots from goal and are a major threat to score from the back but it's rare even among top players. Always trying to score opens the risk of getting your shot attempt stuffed back into your own goal by the opposing foward, or turning the ball over to the opposing forward upon getting your shot blocked. Scoring from the goalie position in doubles is usually done from the two bar, and it's much harder than scoring from the forward rods, as good teams can mount an effective zone defense between their four rods to block the majority of shots an opposing goalie can put on goal. Singles is a much more wide open game and affords much greater chances of scoring from goal because there aren't two players manning four rods, a lot of singles offense takes advantage of the opponent being in transition from one rod to another or their inability to put up an effective zone as they might in doubles. Despite this some top players take a really controlled approach and mainly pass from their goalie rods to their offensive rods whereas others have a really wild and wooly fast paced style. Here’s a list of rules in common use in international competition: https://www.tablesoccer.org/rules/documents/ITSFRulesEnglish.pdf Some general points about offense from the 3 bar, where the majority of scoring happens: -Any effective shot has to be part of a series. Typically this means when you get possession on your three you set up the ball somewhere in front of the goal, with options to hit at least 3 different spots in the goal: each corner/post, and the center. Of course you can also hit the intermediate spots (if you imagine a row of foosballs lined up from one side of the goal to the other, left to right, there might be 5 balls, and you could consider the first ball at the left corner to be at the 1 hole, and the fifth ball at the right corner to be at the 5 hole), but being able to consistently hit the center or either corner quickly, at different timings, and without tells to let the goalie know which hole you are going to is sufficient to score effectively. If a goalie knows from playing you or scouting your games that you can only hit one hole consistently, or two out of three, they can pretty easily cover the one or two holes you can hit and shut your offense down. If a shot starts from a stationary position, like a pull shot starts at the 1 hole, the shot should be fast enough to hit any spot in the goal and beat the goalie there if they are trying to race you by reacting to when the shot starts. But just because a shot is unraceable, as most top forwards' shots are, doesn't mean it can't be blocked. Some points about defense (you can have at most two defensive men in front of your goal, so you can block at least two holes at all times): -The most important tool of a defender is knowledge. Knowledge about the opponent's abilities, and their tendencies. This is true for defending passes as well as shots. At lower levels of play, players have huge holes in their game. They might be only able to hit one hole in a shot series with any consistency, with their other options being feeble or nonexistent. You can literally camp a man in front of their preferred shot option and they will have a difficult time scoring at all. At higher levels of play there will still always be weaknesses and tendencies but they will be more subtle. Usually players will be able to do all necessary options but it's still important to determine which options are their preferred and stronger ones and try to make them shoot what they are less comfortable doing. Or, alternatively bait them into shooting their favorite option but take it away just as they commit to the shot or pass. -So let's consider a defender trying to block a forward shooting a pull shot (which starts stationary at the 1 hole or left corner, and can be shot either straight into that corner or the ball pulled and shot all the way to the right corner or any spot in between. The first thing the goalie must determine is if it's possible to simply race the shooter. If the shot is slow enough to be blocked by a straight race, then that's the best and highest percentage defense to use as you can largely shut it down, you don't have to gamble by leaving the straight and middle uncovered, and it's quite demoralizing for the shooter. If the shot is in fact unraceable then a straight race becomes just about the worst defense to use as the forward willl score almost a hundred percent if you repeatedly try unsuccessfully to race them. It's important for the goalie to know tendencies like if the forward ALWAYS shoots long, or actually shoots a lot to the middle and goes long more sparingly, or likes to shoot straight a lot. It's also important to know if their execution is poor on one or more options. Like it's common for a pull shooter to neglect the middle during matches, or not practice it so they might tend to misexecute it. So if that's the case, and their long shot is really strong and they're good at spotting and taking the straight shot when available, then you want your defense to leave mainly middle holes without trying to make it glaringly obvious. -For shots that are either unraceable or the options are smooth enough that it's difficult to tell where the shooter is going to go, successful defense will depend on things like baiting the shooter by showing them a hole and taking it away as they commit to their shot, or by some type of random shuffle that has some nonrandom elements to cover the shooter's strengths and preferences more often. Against a really good forward who is shooting well you cannot block a hundred percent, your goal is only to get a certain percentage of blocks to keep you in the game, and hopefully your forward is passing and scoring enough to stay ahead of the other team and win, and blocking enough of the other forward's passes. At higher levels of play, 5 bar passing, offense and defense, is probably the single most important element in the entire game, at least in doubles, in determining which team wins, assumimng each team has some kind of at least semicompetent offense from the 3 bar. Because it determines how many shot attempts each team gets from their 3 bar. The basic concept is really simple - 90 percent of all 5 bar passing happens near the walls of the table. The reason is that from each wall inward there's a few inch zone where only the outermost man on the opponent's 5 bar can block a pass. So if you have passing options that go to either extreme edge of that zone, the opponent's lonely defender must commit to one extreme or the other to block a pass. If they hang out in the middle in "no man's land" then you can pass freely with either option and that's the worst scenario. The same principles of defending apply as to defending the goal. Does the passer have good options to either extreme? If so can their pass be raced? Do they have tendencies or tells? Etc. I'll close out this OP by talking about the two main types of shots used in competition right now, the pull shot and the rollover. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR5hQ_Znt8k The pull shot is where the ball starts stationary in front of the left edge of the goal (1 hole), with the right side of the center man on the 3 bar resting against it. The ball can either be shot straight into the goal, or pulled laterally towards the right side of the goal and shot into either the center or right corner of the goal or any of the intermediate spots. This was the shot used by the huge majority of forwards in American foosball during the 1970s and 1980s until the rollover came around near the end of the century. It's still one of the best offenses and probably one of the best things to learn early on playing foosball because it can be used both from the offensive and defensive rods. A pull can be used from the 2 bar both as a scoring threat and to simply clear the ball, but the ball can also be passed from goalie to forward from the pull shot starting position. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z62x-ywAiNk The rollover has definitely taken over foosball and is used by a huge majority of forwards now with the pull shot a distant second, and other shots making up a much smaller percentage. There are many variations on how to shoot it but I will describe the most basic, for simplicity. The ball starts in front of the center of the goal, but forward of the rod, in "front pin" position meaning that the center man of the 3 bar is tilted forward pressing downwards onto the ball. The player does not hold the rod handle in their hand, but rather has their wrist (usually the inside of the wrist) draped over the top and front of the handle. The ball is shot by pulling up on the wrist which brings the man up and over the back of the ball, striking it from behind. If this is done without any lateral movement of the ball the shot will go straight into the center of the goal. The force of the pin can be used to move the ball laterally to either side and again pulling up on the wrist at the end of the shot will shoot the ball into that side of the goal. (This is consistent with the no spin rule because the current rule states that the rod can't do a full 360 either before or after striking the ball, and a rollover is just short of 360 when the ball is struck.) There are a lot of reasons why the rollover has taken over foosball, not just in America but internationally, by storm. It's relatively easy to learn. Because the force is generated by rolling the handle along the wrist, you can smash the ball hard and loud without having to have as powerful a wrist/forearm flick as with other shots. Because it starts from the center of the goal you can have an effective shot to either corner without having blazing lateral speed from your arm, if lateral movement is generated by rocking the ball from side to side and you can take off smoothly without giving away which side you're going to. Once you learn how to set up the ball in a front pin, it's somewhat easier to do IMO than setting up a pull shot in just the right spot. And I don't think the shot is as hard on your arm/shoulder/elbow over a long event and a lot of shots the way really hammering a pull shot hard is. Even misexecuted shots will have a tendency to spray somewhere on goal because of starting from the center. Because you are hitting the ball really hard you have a bit more of a tendency to get the ball back on your 3 bar even after a successful block. Here's a good example of rollover and pull, the Open Singles final of the recently concluded Mississippi State foosball tournament: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I26blGtBINA&t=24558s
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2022 03:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 09:36 |
|
|
Great first post. I love foosball, I never knew it was done profesionally. Though as I say this, I immediately think "why the hell wouldn't it exist". I played it a LOT back in middle school. Looking at the vids you posted it's amazing how many tricks we picked up wasting away all our lunchbreaks. One of my classmates even naturally took the pose the guy in the vid showed. Had a mean shot that guy. I keep trying to get my colleagues at work to try out the Foosball table, but so far none have wanted to. Though to be fair, one of the bars is a bit bent.  Muscle memory is a powerful thing, most friends I do manage to agree to a game only want to play me once.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2022 21:11
|
|
|
I loving suck at foosball!! The last time I played it was with friends at a bar who are all good at it and took it seriously. I kept intentionally doing things wrong and making them mad until I didn’t have to play any more. I prefer darts and cornhole
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2022 22:51
|
|
|
My personal opinion is that the first thing to learn playing foosball is how to hit the ball hard, by snapping your wrist, with a follow through to where the man is horizontal and parallel to the table surface, if necessary. It makes the game more fun when you can hit the ball hard and it makes a loud noise smashing into the goal. Torquing or pushing downwards on the handle and rod adds a lot of "pop" to your shot. Furthermore, even if you don't have a shot that moves laterally, if you hit the ball hard you usually have a better chance of clearing it out of your area from the sheer energy the ball has, and it's often harder for your opponent to just pick up and steal the ball from you if you've really hammered it. Usually the first type of actual shot people try to do is to kick the ball horizontally across the table with one man, and hitting it forward towards the goal with another man at some point. When everyone's a beginner this type of shot is incredibly effective even if slow, as people don't always track the ball effectively. When done at a higher level of play this can be part of an effective shot series, called a pushkick or pullkick depending on which direction the ball is going. Generally you set up the ball on one side of the goal, and pass it hard from the man on that side of the table towards the other side of the goal and smash it into that part of the goal. It can be paired up with a sneaky option where instead of passing it across the goal you kind of let the ball dribble into the corner of the goal near where you started, at medium speed. If you've been actually hitting the long shot, the goalie will start to give up these goals too. Or you can just pass the ball shorter distances to the middle of the goal etc. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCkCvay4-DQ (actually this guy doesn't show the slow dribble "dink" option which IMO is one of the main reasons to shoot a pushkick)  Once you have some kind of shot, the ability to get the ball to your 3 row (and prevent your opponent doing the same) is going to largely determine whether you win or lose. These are the most common types of passing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNZEmRJz8aA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erTIHz8XxVU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IotPRVXTJI
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2022 01:27
|
|
|
Here's a little snippet to give a flavor of what international competition is like. The international World Cup competition is hosted in Nantes, France. This little clip only shows the conclusion of the match, but the forward for the Belgian team, number 10 in yellow, is Frederic Collignon, who is pretty much the Michael Jordan/Tom Brady of table soccer. I'm pretty sure he's won more championships on all kinds of different tables than the next few people put together. His shot is not a rollover but a European style front pin shot, where instead of the man rolling backwards and behind the ball to strike it, the man backswings behind the ball and then comes forward to strike it, with the handle held in the palm or hand of the player rather than the wrist resting on the handle. European tables are "grippy" and pretty much favor this style, which allows for a lot of control and juking back and forth, fakes etc. Rollover shooters have adopted this aspect too and now it's fairly routine for them to walk the ball around the goal like a front pin shooter even though they are controlling the rod with a patch of skin on their wrist or forearm. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bcojwkKo_A Rob Atha is the forward for the Great Britain team and is pretty much the best English foosball player unless I'm mistaken. Unfortunate that this clip only shows the last couple of points, as it looks like it was a banger of a match that went the distance. The final game in the championship match in these World Cup events tends to have an interesting format where every two points the players switch between the "home tables" of their respective teams. So winning both points on your home table is like holding serve in tennis, and winning a point (or both points) on the other team's table is like breaking serve. The brief clip does show trademark characteristics of Collignon's play, which include always using a time out on a big point (each team gets two time outs per game which can be called when they have possession of the ball), and precise execution of his shot on a big point.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2022 06:31
|
|
|
A cool foosball tip is to lift the slightest bit so the table leans slightly towards your opponents goal. Just don't lift it so much that they notice you're doing it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2022 05:42
|
|
|
This game rules and if your house rules aren't scoring from goalie to goalie equals 2 points, it should be.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2022 19:02
|
|
|
An important element of play is to point at the opponent’s goal when the ball is rattling around the table near their end. This materially increases the chance of a sloppy goal trickling in.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2022 19:41
|
|
|
Sorry, but I only play Calciobalilla, also known as Gettone
abuse culture. fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Aug 29, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2022 20:04
|
|
|
Mods please change the title to "The Foosball Thread (NO SPIN ZONE!)"
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2022 02:18
|
|
|
who puts the badminton grips on the handles? Is that done by each team before each match?
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2022 10:53
|
|
|
ilmucche posted:who puts the badminton grips on the handles? Is that done by each team before each match? Yes. Usually it's something like the wraps used for tennis racquet handles although there have been some designed for table soccer. In the Tornado table tournaments in the U.S., players can usually agree to switch sides between games, or not. In the past, they were stuck with that decision through the match, whatever was decided (not sure if that's still true as one of the matches I posted the players switched initially then didn't switch for subsequent games). One annoyance is if you use wraps, which are pretty much universal in competition, you have to put them on and take them off with every switch, although you learn to do it fairly quickly. Zwabu fucked around with this message at 13:38 on Aug 30, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2022 13:30
|
|
|
The fact that the majority of U.S. players shoot a rollover as their main shot (and this is increasingly the case in Europe as well) makes the use of a wrap on the handle necessary. Since you are not holding the handle in your hand but manipulating it with a patch of skin on your wrist, it's very hard to shoot it effectively without something making the handle grippy.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2022 13:47
|
|
|
Coco13 posted:Mods please change the title to "The Foosball Thread (NO SPIN ZONE!)" I'm the OP, and I support this message! Actually I feel the spin rule is anachronistic, spinning the rods confers no advantage at all that I can see, except if the players are all terrible and unable to hit a hard shot any other way. You could compare it to handball rule in soccer or double dribble/travelling in basketball, but those penalties give an advantage to the person committing the foul. Edit: the one reason I can think of for no spin rule is that thwacking at the handles to spin the rods can bend and damage the rods if done too vigorously.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2022 14:35
|
|
|
Best part about spinning is just straight up shooting through the spin. In order to hit a good shot you need a certain flexibility in your arms and wrists. If you don’t have that, spinning can substitute, but it’s comparatively sluggish. It’s like playing actual soccer and only shooting with the point of your foot. It works and sometimes it’s all you have but you can’t aim at all.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2022 22:13
|
|
|
This is a wonderful thread thank you.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2022 23:46
|
|
|
So, as to the issue of "where can I get in on some foos action, or even find a tournament to play in?" I will address this from the standpoint of Tornado table tournaments in the U.S. Most major cities will have some place with a foosball table or two (usually a bar), and often some poor soul thanklessly running local tournaments. Unfortunately there isn't any organized online resource that I know of to find where there are tables, what type, whether there is an active scene or tournaments. There USED to be, in the early days of the internet, but not any longer. You pretty much have to google around your location, if you're lucky there's a facebook foosball group or website for your town that announces events and venues. The usual format for local tournaments will be either a DYP (Draw Your Partner) where you randomly draw partners and play that way, or a Bring Your Partner (arranged teams), or a combination bring/draw, usually with higher entry fees or possibly handicaps for the Bring teams. Most commonly the events are double elimination brackets so you get to play at least two matches for your entry fee, but this can also result in the events being a long slog that run late into the night. Some tournaments will also run singles tournaments at the same time as the doubles tournament if there are enough players interested. The usual situation in tournaments is that the better or more experienced player will play forward and the less experienced or worse player will play goal. This is because between the ability to score from the three rod and the control over 3 rod possessions by passing from the 5 bar or defending the opponent's 5 bar, the forward generally has more influence over the outcome of the game so it generally works better for the stronger player to play front. A very strong player at forward can carry even a total beginner to victory in a local draw, even against decent teams. This happens so often that it is rarely a surprise to anyone who's played foosball for any significant amount of time. Against weaker teams the stronger player can stay at forward the whole match, because if the opposing team does not have strong 5 bar to 3 bar passing they can defend or steal many of those passes. But against teams with strong forwards this usually involves doing a lot of switching, taking advantage of the ability to switch positions with any stoppage of play (such as when a goal is scored or a time out is called), and the fact that there are two time outs per team per game. So for instance if the opponent scores, the strong player will start the next point at forward, since starting with the ball on the 5 bar allows the good player to leverage their presumably strong passing game with a high chance to pass to the 3 rod and good chance to score from there. But if their own team scores, and the opposing forward has a strong passing and shooting game, the strong player carrying a novice will often start the next point in goal, assuming the opposing forward has a decent chance of completing a pass and then almost certain chance to score on the novice goalie, so putting themselves in goal will give a stronger chance to block the shot. If the novice player at forward gets possession of the ball on either rod then the usual strategy is to call time out if there are any remaining, and switch to give a better opportunity scoring chance. Against good players putting up a decent zone defense, it's difficult for all but the most talented goalies to score with any consistency (one or two goals in a five point game from goal is HUGE and even most top goalies don't average anything like that), so if you are the novice ("backpack") being carried by a stronger player, if your forward is playing well, you might win with totally incompetent play, but doing a few things will substantially help the cause of your team and are usually all that is expected. 1. Keep sloppy, easy goals from scoring as much as possible. Every goal is worth 1, so if some crap rattling around the table dribbles into your goal it's just as bad as if the opposing forward made a great pass and shot. Worse, really, because they didn't have to do anything special. 2. Gain control over balls that come through your zone (rather than letting them drift onto your opponent's 3 rod). 3. Clear the ball past the 5 bar of your opponent. The worst outcome from a goalie possession is to get a pass or shot stuffed back into your goal. The second worst is to turn it over to their 3 bar (let's say they are scoring with about 50 percent efficiency. Then putting it on their 3 is essentially giving them 0.5 points). Putting it on their 5 bar isn't the greatest but not the end of the world. The best outcome of a goalie possession is of course scoring a goal, next best is passing it to the 3 bar of your forward. Next best after that is passing it to the 5 bar of your forward, next after that is clearing it to the opposing goalie, then clearing it to the opponent's 5, then turning it over to the opponent's 3, then just getting stuffed for a goal. For a novice, no one is expecting successful passes to the forward. Keeping slop out, doing a decent job gaining possession of balls coming through your zone, and clearing the ball decently all give your team a good chance to win. A talented partner would rather you didn't try to score at all than turn the ball over to the opposing forward resulting in two goals for them for every time you score. A lot of the problems with novices playing in tournaments is that a lot of "good" players are not good partners or mentors. A good partner will provide advice and instruction during stoppages of play, and some criticism that is hopefully mostly constructive (for instance advising against bombing away from goal if the shots are resulting in a lot of turnovers and goals for the opponent, or advice on how to defend the opponent's shot). But a lot of "good" players who feel they are carrying a "backpack" offer criticism and negativity but fail to acknowledge when they are failing to live up to their end of the implicit contract between the teammates. For instance if the "strong" forward is utterly failing to get the ball on their 3 and the opposing forward is passing through them like a sieve, and are scoring at extremely low percentage (especially stuff like misexecuting and their shots not even being on goal or fumbling away precious 3 bar possessions to the other team) and they are dogging their goalie for having difficulty clearing the ball, they are not a good partner or mentor in my opinion. A forward "carrying" a novice who isn't playing well is in my opinion more responsible for the loss as the victory is supposed to come through their play, with their goalie simply getting a block here or there and getting enough clears to allow the win to happen. That struggling forward should either curb their negativity towards their novice partner, or at least have some humility and own up to their own shoddy play and own responsibility for the loss. As far as running tournaments, this can be done simply and low tech by putting names/numbers into a hat for a draw, and hand drawing up brackets on a whiteboard. But there are various forms of free or commercial tournament software and apps for this too, such as: https://app.kickertool.de/tournaments Casual games usually consist of winning teams or players staying on the table as king of the mountain and successive challengers putting up coins for the subsequent challenge games until the king of the mountain finally gets dethroned. I really enjoy casual games when there is an active scene as much if not more than serious competition and I wish there was more of it, but I feel like foosball has been dying a slow death in the U.S. since the 80's, and all that is left is the more hardcore serious tournament types. It's my feeling that a healthy game or sport should be mostly casual players having fun with tournament competitors representing the peak of a larger mountain of casual players. If there are enough players those who seek out and enjoy serious competition will always arise out of that. Zwabu fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Sep 4, 2022 |
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2022 03:30
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvHIhcZag3E The recently concluded Tornado World Championships was a coming out party for young Costa Rican player Brandon Munoz who won both the Open Singles and Open Doubles events (the two most competitive events) and was partnered with his brother in doubles. Of note Munoz had to beat the current 800 pound gorilla of foosball, Wisconsin's Tony Spredeman, in the Open Singles final posted above. The events are typically double elimination which is why there are two matches in a row. Tony had lost a match earlier and had to come from the loser's bracket and so therefore would have to win two consecutive matches against Brandon to win the title. This seems like it would be hard but it happens a lot more often than you might think. (Format is best 3 out of 5 games for each match, and each game is to 5 points.) Tony is the definite successor to the Belgian, Frederic Collignon, as the dominant player in Tornado foosball. There have been other players who have won titles and beaten Collignon in big matches along the way, but some of those have only been able to get the odd win here or there, or quit playing or began playing a lot less shortly after reaching their peak (notably Billy Pappas who made the final table at the World Series of Poker Main Event in 2014, thereby winning more money at one go than he could probably do in a lifetime at foosball). Tony is the only one who has been persistent in playing big events and has been dominating the titles of those events consistently for some time now. If you watch his matches, his overall skill level seems a level higher than every other player, especially in passing, even if he doesn't win every single title. Tony's style of play is unique in that he utilizes a "tic tac" passing series where the ball passes rapidly back and forth between the two farthest men on his five row before going either to the outer wall or the inside "lane" to be passed to his 3 rod. Most people pass on the side near them for the simple reason that it's easier to repeatedly place the ball on the near side when practicing, and you can see the ball better when it's close to you. Passing on the far side has the advantage that it's less common so people are less used to defending it, and when passes are near the wall they are actually out of the vision of the defender unless they lean over the table. Collignon is definitely the first major player on Tornado to utilize primarily passing from the goalie rods to the 5 rod instead of trying to shoot when playing singles, and Tony has adopted and refined that style to a high art. Twenty or thirty years ago hardly anyone mainly passed from goal in singles. The majority still try to shoot but a lot more people pass now because of the influence of Collignon and Spredeman. Tony probably also deserves the most credit for changing the style of rollover shooting from a static position in the middle of the goal to where the ball is "walked" and maneuvered around to different spots in front of the goal before shooting. Munoz has a relatively unique and fast paced style of play in singles. He shoots a rollover and utilizes brush passing like 90 percent of everyone, but he's extremely quick in transition, can and will score from every rod, and can shoot very quickly from his 3 rod right after catching the ball (not only his rollover but all kinds of trick/gimmick shots too). It's not as evident in the match I posted, but in a lot of singles matches he absolutely overwhelms opponents with his speed and transition game, even though he's perfectly capable of playing a slower control game too.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2022 02:37
|
|
|
All right you have done it I will watch that during lunch tomorrow.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2022 05:30
|
|
|
I can’t play the 5 row at all. They exist to get in the way of everything, opponents, me. Sounds like I need to watch that movie.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2022 09:00
|
|
|
Darth TNT posted:I can’t play the 5 row at all. They exist to get in the way of everything, opponents, me. Push the 5 bar all the way against the wall. The space between the wall and the man second closest to the wall (the one next to the guy against the wall) is the zone you have to defend. Only one man can reach or defend within that zone. Call the space along the wall "wall" and the space right next to that second man the "lane". In a good passing series the passes will be at either extreme of wall or lane, and not in between, because it forces that one man to be at either extreme and makes it more obvious where to pass. If the passes tend to go through the middle area in between, you can kind of hover your man in that area and block a high percentage, particularly if the passes aren't hit with a lot of velocity. The first thing to learn when trying to play on the 5 bar is wall passes. This is usually the strongest option for most players because it's easiest to catch, and for beginners or lower level players it's often the only real pass they have. To catch a wall pass, just place your 3 bar against the wall and tilt the man slightly forward, and the ball will wedge itself into the corner formed by the man and the wall without any movement. To do a real basic wall pass, preposition your 3 bar as described. Then roll the ball slowly towards the wall along your 5 bar, and JUST before it reaches the wall, hit it forward. You're better off letting it be a little bit off the wall, if you try to cut it too close it will bounce off the wall and the pass will not go along the wall. With surprisingly little practice you can quickly learn to hit this pass really hard and still catch it. The key point of passing along the wall is that the defender has to be fully committed to jamming his 5 bar against the wall to block it. Most tables, certainly Tornado, are designed so that the bumpers on the side will ALMOST let a ball through but when fully against the wall the wall pass is blocked. Occasionally you will see some bar table where the bumper is a little fatter and a wall pass can just squeeze through unless you literally compress the bumper against the wall but this situation is unusual. The key to defending someone who has a real passing series is for your defending man has to be either fully against the wall, or committed to the lane. Committed to the lane doesn't mean the man has to stand a hundred percent in the path of the ball, if a third to half of the man is in the ball's path that's plenty to deflect or block the pass. If you try to shave it too close beyond that you will just be out of position too much of the time. Of course when travelling from one spot to the other the defender will not be in either spot but you want to minimize this time. Because if the defending man is mostly loitering in "no man's land" a good passer can pass almost a hundred percent picking either pass. What about hovering rapidly between wall and lane? If the passer's passes are very slow, this is actually viable because you have a decent chance of clipping either pass as it drifts slowly through. But if the passer can hit either option really crisply they will pass against you with a very high percentage because your man will spend a relatively small percentage of its time on either extreme of wall or lane, and a well hit fast pass will usually make it through during the time the defender is not there. This is important knowledge when people are trying to defend you with a hover defense, if you have a decent wall pass you can hit hard, just go for it based on the same principle. One of the risks of a hovering/moving defense is that when you jump to the wall to block a wall pass it's easy to jar the table which is a penalty in serious play. Sometimes using both hands to move the 5 bar can help minimize jarring because the second hand kind of restrains the motion to the wall. Remember when you defending against 5 bar passes, you have tiers of goals. The primary goal (aside from not letting the ball actually score) is to prevent the opponent successfully passing to their 3 bar. Bonus goals are to steal and gain possession on either your 5 or your 3 bar, but this is difficult, it involves technique but a lot of luck also. If you are doing things in trying to get a steal that allow passes to get through to their 3 bar, that's not a good tradeoff. So against a good passer, a high percentage of blocked passes will go right back to their 5 bar and that's just a fact of life. If you deflect a pass to where they can't catch it and it drifts into your goalie area and you or your teammate gains possession there, that's a win. It's an even bigger win if you grab it on your 5 and the biggest win if you grab it on the 3 or you actually block it into their goal. So a very common beginner type situation is where your opponent can do a wall pass but any other pass they are kind of hacking at the ball or weakly passing it. This type of player will try to pass along the wall virtually a hundred percent of the time. If they successfully completed one lane pass an hour ago and are using that to successfully sucker you off the wall, repeatedly waiting for you to just come off the wall and then do their one good pass over and over again, sometimes it's frustrating and you feel flummoxed. If this type of player is passing on you a very high percentage or almost a hundred percent just by waiting for you to just come off the wall a little bit, then just don't do it. Even if you just camp your man along the wall and force him to try to lane pass every single time you will still probably come off better, at least he will miss the catch on the lane pass a significant percent of the time, and he will feel more pressure and less comfortable generally, and you will probably have a higher percentage of blocks than you were getting previously, either from him missing the catch on his lane attempts, or him stubbornly passing against the wall hoping you'd move off it again. Another common beginner scenario is someone whose main pass is to kind of chip the ball diagonally through no man's land. This is pretty easy to block, just kind of hover around that area. Because this type of player can often do a weak wall pass you have to kind of learn through experience when they're going to do either one and block that spot. None of this addresses doing a real passing series, the passing series videos cover that, just general principles that actually apply at all levels, and the defensive principles apply to 3 bar play as well. It's important to know which options your opponent has that are strong, and the ones that are weak or nonexistent. In high level play you can't usually just do something like sit against the wall, but if you know your opponent really favors one option that's still important and useful information, your defense should mainly keep that option covered, or you can try to bait them into taking it and defend after they've committed.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2022 18:56
|
|
|
Wallpass is about the only thing I can do with the 5 row. It's that the amount of movement space is severely limited there, which makes it feel very awkward and slightly luck based.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2022 15:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 09:36 |
|
|
Darth TNT posted:Wallpass is about the only thing I can do with the 5 row. It's that the amount of movement space is severely limited there, which makes it feel very awkward and slightly luck based. One important factor is how close or far you are to the table, and how you stand, whether your body is parallel to the side wall or you are turned out at an angle facing more towards the opponent's goal instead of facing directly across at your opponent. A lot of times if shots or passes feel uncomfortable it's due to standing too close to the table. Even though it can be subtle, if you're too close to the table your elbow and arm can be jammed up against your body and can make execution of motions that finish towards your body (like passing towards the near wall or shooting a pull shot) feel cramped and awkward. Sometimes it's obvious, your elbow bumps into your chest or belly and can't go further, but sometimes it's subtle. You can actually complete the motion but your body is cramped enough that it brings your execution percentage way down and makes everything feel generally uncomfortable and difficult.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2022 16:37
|
|