|
It's strange how much damage the invisible mutants can take, compared to cyborgs or robots which seem to go down after a few shots. At least the laser rapier makes short work of them!
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2022 11:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 12:17 |
|
|
Hey, everyone. Just a heads up that today's episode will either be a bit late either coming out tomorrow or possibly late tonight.Kangra posted:I have to say it was mildly amusing that you skipped out of Level 3 to go look for a flashlight on Level 4, when it was just another room away. Fortunately 3 and 4 are 'breather' levels that are not too tough to get through, and they really let you build up your abilities by finding new gadgets. It's plain that the Storage Level is where they threw all the battle rooms they couldn't figure out where to put elsewhere, as it's by far the least plausible design. I'd still like to try a pipe only run sometime, but I'm glad I abandoned it for this playthrough. Without knowing the critical path through the game I think things would have become an unwatchable slog as evidenced by having difficulties even on floor 1. Pseudohog posted:It's strange how much damage the invisible mutants can take, compared to cyborgs or robots which seem to go down after a few shots. At least the laser rapier makes short work of them! Yeah the invisible mutants seem to be bullet sponges. It makes me wonder about how the mechanics of the armor / weapon damage system work behind the scenes. In any case the laser rapier seems extremely good at the obvious cost of putting yourself into more potential danger. Getting ambushed aside, if I had better mastery of the movement in the game we could probably take a bit less damage in ranged fights.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2022 14:49
|
|
|
rojovision posted:Hey, everyone. Just a heads up that today's episode will either be a bit late either coming out tomorrow or possibly late tonight. No worries, take as much time as you need! We can cope with a day or two without our dose of a shock to the system 
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2022 01:16
|
|
|
 Episode 13 - Grenades 'n Guns
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2022 15:23
|
|
|
That guy that was immune to the laser rapier was only so because you ran out of energy.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2022 16:28
|
|
|
Geemer posted:That guy that was immune to the laser rapier was only so because you ran out of energy. Might be a testament to the cluttered nature of this game's UI that a message nearly front and center announcing that problem got completely missed.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2022 00:54
|
|
|
Geemer posted:That guy that was immune to the laser rapier was only so because you ran out of energy. You're telling me that my energy sword needs energy to function? Unplayable. Melaneus posted:Might be a testament to the cluttered nature of this game's UI that a message nearly front and center announcing that problem got completely missed. I went back and checked the footage and I see what you mean. I was definitely tunnel visioned on the robot itself. On a completely unrelated note I think I may have missed something on the floor in that nook with the chair, so I'll have to try to remember to go back there before we leave the floor.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2022 01:33
|
|
|
rojovision posted:Yeah the invisible mutants seem to be bullet sponges. It makes me wonder about how the mechanics of the armor / weapon damage system work behind the scenes. In any case the laser rapier seems extremely good at the obvious cost of putting yourself into more potential danger. Getting ambushed aside, if I had better mastery of the movement in the game we could probably take a bit less damage in ranged fights. Keep experimenting with this. Some weapons/ammo types have more armor penetration and thus work well against enemies with high armor, and it's not always obvious. I don't know if the target identifier ever tells you which enemies have high armor though. You'll probably get a chance to experiment with the Genius patch to see it in action. Of course, you've already seen the 'side effects'. Most patches do have a side effect of some sort (e.g. screwed-up vision with Berserk); other side effects have hit you before but it hasn't been as obvious what was happening. The moment when you realized the game would let you do that was amazing, and it's partly why all the complexity they threw in the game was worth it. Kangra fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Oct 24, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2022 03:47
|
|
|
 Episode 14 - Pit of Dubious Return Check the timestamps if you get sick of a certain part of the video. You'll know when.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 01:20
|
|
|
Yeah, it's definitely possible to get into an untenable position in games of this vintage, which is why a couple of backup saves are always good. The laser rapier also kills cortex reavers even faster, but I can understand not wanting to get that close to it. You managed that with barely a scratch, which is impressive. Also, to play games, open the 'software' tab on the central panel (bottom right button), and click on the Games software to open the list of what you have in one of the MFDs.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 18:16
|
|
|
At 25:50 it looks like there's a switch panel to the left of that locked iris door, it's hidden pretty well in the gloom unfortunately! May have been another way out of that pit? Good work anyway on coaxing enough out of the jump jets to escape via the landing. Regarding Shodan's plans from that last log, it's nice of her to wait until after her original plans have failed before putting that into action! But I guess there wouldn't be much of a game if Shodan had already won before you even woke up... I'm getting really hyped now for the remake to be released, hopefully that'll be early next year. I was looking at my Kickstarter account the other day and I've had the remake kickstarted since 2016, it's been a long wait!
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 13:19
|
|
|
 Episode 15 - Fun With Radiation
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2022 06:16
|
|
|
Kangra posted:Yeah, it's definitely possible to get into an untenable position in games of this vintage, which is why a couple of backup saves are always good. Thanks, we briefly check out the games we have in the episode I just posted. Pseudohog posted:At 25:50 it looks like there's a switch panel to the left of that locked iris door, it's hidden pretty well in the gloom unfortunately! May have been another way out of that pit? I'm looking forward to the remake as well. It seems like it's had a bit of a troubled history, but Nightdive's other work seems to be mostly well received overall, so I think SS Remake will at least be competent.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2022 06:24
|
|
|
rojovision posted:I'm looking forward to the remake as well. It seems like it's had a bit of a troubled history, but Nightdive's other work seems to be mostly well received overall, so I think SS Remake will at least be competent. I played the demo which is the entire medical level, and it definitely seems to have the right SS feel about it... plus a few quality of life improvements like marking power and health stations on your map! About the last video - that ambush was pretty brutal! But luckily you were very well kitted out from your explorations of all the other decks, so those poor cyborgs didn't stand a chance.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2022 10:54
|
|
|
 Episode 16 - Green Grove
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2022 17:07
|
|
|
 Episode 17 - Suspiciously Convenient Information
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2022 04:24
|
|
|
Well, Shodan's doubtless aware of the many problems that can occur once you start experimenting with biological life. It does seem careless of that cyborg to just leave the log lying around though. I do like the Groves a lot; along with L6 they seem like one of the more sensibly laid-out levels, since you probably would want long sight-lines and the feeling of more open space in the only 'park' part of the station. You mentioned how the L6 elevator that had power 're-directed' was freed up after the shield was blown. There was a vague reference to Shodan having to maybe perform calculations to fire the laser (one would have to guess when you fired it, it was sub-optimally aimed but Shodan just rolled with it; also it's a funny bit). I always kind of wished that when you enabled the timer at the higher plot level, it would start out really short, but get increased as you destroyed processor nodes throughout the station. Then it would kind of actually have some plot relevance instead of just a sort-of arbitrary stopping time. e: Forgot to wish the Hacker a happy -50th wake-up day! (The game in fact starts on November 6, 2072). Kangra fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Nov 6, 2022 |
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2022 06:07
|
|
|
I was going to say that whatever cyber-security training the Citadel staff had to go through has obviously been forgotten after being converted into cyborgs.... but the humans seem to be even worse at just leaving their logs scattered around everywhere! Maybe we can be a bit generous and say that they are encrypted, but it's trivial for the hacker's military grade hardware to break through it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2022 20:16
|
|
|
 Episode 18 - Harrowing Hazard Zone
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2022 01:24
|
|
|
Kangra posted:Well, Shodan's doubtless aware of the many problems that can occur once you start experimenting with biological life. It does seem careless of that cyborg to just leave the log lying around though. That would be a cool tweak to the timer mechanic. Also nice catch on the date. Happy not yet wake up day, enjoy your upcoming mutants, cyborgs, and murderous AI. Pseudohog posted:I was going to say that whatever cyber-security training the Citadel staff had to go through has obviously been forgotten after being converted into cyborgs.... but the humans seem to be even worse at just leaving their logs scattered around everywhere! It's probly tough to hold on to all those logs when you've got no arms or possibly a head anymore. That said, you could be right that we can assume we're just hacking encrypted files, but Citadel seems like the kind of office where half the people write their passwords on sticky notes attached to their monitors.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2022 01:34
|
|
|
That painting looked a little familiar so I did a quick google, and of course there's a wiki entry! https://shodan.fandom.com/wiki/Paintings quote:At least one artwork exists in real life. This is the known artist and his painting: I wonder if they had to get proper copyright permission to use it or if they just snuck it in? Looks like it's in the public domain now, since 2015. Will have to keep an eye out to see if it's still there in the remake!
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2022 18:56
|
|
|
I have to wonder if you've borked yourself and have to restart because you've been going though healing items like candy and you probably don't have enough to get to the end, I have had to do a few restarts. Early game I've been running back to the surgery unit to get healed when I got low. Also you don't need the plastique or the demodulators until later, you just need to know where to find them. There is also a V2 hazard suit somewhere that has radiation protection that you should have picked up before running around in the reactor. That broken surgery unit in SCI is fixable, and the force door next to it is openable. I think you have to use a logic probe on the broken surgery unit (I don't remember), as for the force door it should be openable nearby. As for respawning enemies (from what I remember), the more time you spend on a floor (and the difficulty), the faster enemies will respawn. You don't need the target identifier screen up for any reason. You're going to kill stuff dead so you don't need to know how damaged they are. As for the "engaging backup systems" part of it, it's just robot equivalent of "near death" or so. SugarAddict fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Nov 10, 2022 |
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2022 04:23
|
|
|
The mutants down on level 1 are farmable and drop medipatches, so if Rojo wanted to do some offscreen grinding it should work out ok.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2022 18:17
|
|
|
Med patches seem pretty weak, though - they don't offer that much healing, and it looks like you can't use more than one every few minutes or so? But I suppose that's better than nothing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2022 07:39
|
|
|
Pseudohog posted:That painting looked a little familiar so I did a quick google, and of course there's a wiki entry! I'd say it's so low res that they could get away with it. Obviously that's just my dumb non lawyer opinion, though. I read up to the part about the healing items, but didn't go on because it seemed like things were potentially getting kind of spoilery as far as what we need to do at some point or another. I wasted an absolute ton of med patches in the first few episodes trying out the pipe only thing, so that may come back to bite us. Pseudohog posted:The mutants down on level 1 are farmable and drop medipatches, so if Rojo wanted to do some offscreen grinding it should work out ok. I'm not opposed to trying to farm a few offscreen back on level 1 to make up for some of what we lost. Aside from that, I guess maybe I should rely on the shield a bit more to mitigate some of the incoming damage. Crazy Achmed posted:Med patches seem pretty weak, though - they don't offer that much healing, and it looks like you can't use more than one every few minutes or so? But I suppose that's better than nothing. The healing is indeed kind of weak, and seems almost a bit inconsistent. I think we could suss out a bit more of how they work if we used our bioscan implant to sit and watch a few in action at varying health levels. Hoping to have the next episode up late tonight - it's already recorded so it's just a matter of upload / YouTube's processing time. Otherwise look for it tomorrow.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2022 18:19
|
|
|
 Episode 19 - Possible Power Problem
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2022 15:57
|
|
|
 Episode 20 - Maintenance Mazes
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2022 15:22
|
|
|
Nice of you to show off every single one of the maintenance panels. If nothing else, you got a buttload of ammo from looting all those bots. (Spoilers for those who haven't watched the video.) The image showing the fault does, in a way, indicate where Relay 428 is on the map. It's something that's almost impossible to notice unless you've already mapped them out, but all four of the maintenance tunnel areas are overlaid on it. Of course, any of the sectors could just as easily have it, so it's really not much of a hint anyway, especially since it's kind of small even on a modern screen. To see this, check out the video around 26:18 — on the right is the image, on the left the map MFD. You can see that the 'south' section is blue, the 'east' side is yellow, and so on. Kangra fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Nov 18, 2022 |
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2022 23:05
|
|
|
Ah, this bit where it literally turns into a corridor shooter... luckily your reflexes are on top of things!
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2022 01:52
|
|
|
Ok, so I got thinking about System Shock and the other similar games that were coming out at the same time, and I ended up writing a longer post than I originally intended to! Apologies Rojo for dumping this in the middle of your LP, but I thought it might be of interest to people who don't know all that much about the era. TL;DR - Looking Glass Studios were WAY ahead of their time, and you should go back and watch Rojo's LP of Ultima Underworld if you haven't already!
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2022 03:48
|
|
|
So the return to this level in particular is very two dimensional - a bunch of corridors, no ups or downs or big open spaces. It got me thinking about how the progression of engines went, and I ended up writing this possibly far too long post! So the first games I played which I class as being part of the System Shock DNA was Catacomb 3D and Catacomb Abyss, all the way back in 1991 and 1992. Big sprawling levels, fluid '3d' movement but always constrained to a flat playing field. Having to collect keys in order to unlock later parts of the levels, backtracking, picking up better spells and splatting enemies which gave you trouble earlier. Also in 92 by the same developers, ID systems, was Wolfenstein 3D, using the same basic engine as Catacomb Abyss, but with the added benefit of getting to shoot Nazis and in particular Hitler himself. The Catacomb games never really got a great following, but it turned out that people liked killing Nazis, and so Wolfenstein started to attract interest. At the same time Origin / Looking Glass Studios / Electronic Arts (complicated business agreements which I can't be bothered untangling) had been working on their own 3D engine which had started as a flight simulator. Someone had the idea to merge the full 3D movement possibilities with the traditionally 2D roleplaying games of the Ultima series - and Ultima Underworld was born and unleashed on the public in early 1992. (If you want to see more at this point, there is an LP of Underworld by Rojo that you should probably go and watch!) UU was a step up in many ways - not restrained to flat corridors and square rooms like Catacomb/Wolfenstein, it could render massive caverns, underground rivers, slopes, and entities being above or below each other. However navigating through a fully 3D world was a very new concept and it was far too different to the old 2D Ultima games to convince those fans that this was the way forward. A sequel Ultima Underworld 2 was released in January of 1993 - and even though this was back in the days when a sequel could be cranked out in months with a bit of reskinning, UU 2 was a massive advance on UU 1 in so many ways. A persistent world (actually multiple parallel worlds!) with NPCs who had their own agendas, and a plot that twisted depending on what choices you'd made - this was the point that actually brought the lore and politics of the classic Ultima universe together with a free roaming 3D adventure. I don't feel embarrassed to say that as a kid, at points UU2 went over my head (the servant rebellion), or absolutely terrified me (falling into a pit, being sucked through an underground sewer and then being murdered by a tentacled lurker). Then later in 1993 Doom was released, and changed the world of video games. As a Looking Glass fan I will always hold the position that Doom and ID software got lucky - it was way less technologically advanced than Underworld, had no NPCs, no plot to speak of - just a mindless shooter! But what it did, it did very well - it could run on even the most bog standard of 386 PCs and the freeware version fitted on a couple of floppy disks, which made it easy to share between people. A big thing it could do was fake 3D environments - Doom was basically a 2D game, with certain bits shifted up or down to make the appearance of a fully 3D environment. It couldn't cope with floors or entities being above or below each other, and it didn't allow slopes. If anyone reading this who edited Doom levels at the time will know, a Doom level was basically a Wolfenstein level with higher ceilings and larger rooms, with moving floors pretending to be elevators to give the impression of multiple levels. Looking Glass and Origin then released System Shock in September 1994. It took the sprawling environments of Ultima Underworld and some of the the role playing elements of the 2d Ultimas (unfortunately losing the NPC interaction of UU1 and classic Ultimas) and combined them with the sci-fi aspects and shooter gameplay of Doom to make an entirely new beastie. As we've seen it allowed an entirely new level of control over your avatars body (stand, crouch, lie flat, lean left or right, look up and down) combined with combat controls - unfortunatley this was before mouse and keyboard controls had been standardised, and so it brought its own entirely new paradigm to the table. It didn't quite suit people who just wanted a Wolfenstein/Doom style shooter, and it didn't quite suit people who wanted a more laid back RPG type experience. But luckily there were enough people who wanted a shooter/RPG hybrid and who could put up with the controls, and it eventually became a cult classic in its own right! Unfortunately (for System Shock) Doom 2 was released in October 1994 and did everything that Doom did, but better - and System Shock never really got its chance to shine. I think I've written enough for now, if Rojo decides to do an LP of System Shock 2 I may do another effort post about that generation of games!
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2022 03:50
|
|
|
 Episode 21 - One Shy
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2022 15:52
|
|
|
Kangra posted:Nice of you to show off every single one of the maintenance panels. If nothing else, you got a buttload of ammo from looting all those bots. Good catch on the map. I definitely tuned that out while listening to the robot voice. Thanks for the info. Also, I don't care how long a post is...after all, the point of these threads is to discuss the game and things that relate to it. I agree that Looking Glass was doing some great stuff in the early days of PC gaming. With the resurgence of the "Boomer Shooter" I can only hope to see something similar for this genre of old...I guess you would call them first person simulation games? It seems like a lot of modern first person RPG's and shooters focus more on the action than anything else. I don't dislike them, but they definitely don't have the same feel as something like SS, UU, or Thief. I can't remember if I already said this, but Arkane's Prey from 2017 definitely gave me what I thought were UU in space vibes at the time, and I loved the game. Turns out it was actually just a refinement of System Shock, or maybe System Shock 2 (though I can't say since I haven't played that one).
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2022 16:08
|
|
|
Huh, I'm surprised you ditched the assault rifle since it seemed to pack a decent punch last time you tried it out. If I had to drop something for the skorpion I'd have picked the ion beam, since it really hogs energy that would otherwise be more useful for shields or night vision. Or maybe the flechette rifle since it feels kinda weak now, even though ammo for it seems to be common. Anyway the genre talk is really interesting since system shock is definitely a dungeon crawler first and FPS second - it just happens to focus on ranged combat rather than swords and shields. I remember reading reviews in game magazines back in the day, and since it had the misfortune to release after Doom did, it seemed that a lot of people went in expecting it to be a similar experience to Doom and came away disappointed. That, and also the performance gripes that have already been covered in this thread. The resource scarcity, backtracking, and having to find and activate respawn points on each level is quite survival-horror, too. Although, is there a way to easily see how much ammo we have in reserve for each weapon?
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2022 11:16
|
|
|
Pseudohog posted:A big thing it could do was fake 3D environments - Doom was basically a 2D game, with certain bits shifted up or down to make the appearance of a fully 3D environment. It couldn't cope with floors or entities being above or below each other
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2022 15:42
|
|
|
 Episode 22 - Antenna Attack Minor game audio issues until about 12m in or so. Nothing important missed, though.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2022 20:31
|
|
|
Crazy Achmed posted:Huh, I'm surprised you ditched the assault rifle since it seemed to pack a decent punch last time you tried it out. If I had to drop something for the skorpion I'd have picked the ion beam, since it really hogs energy that would otherwise be more useful for shields or night vision. Or maybe the flechette rifle since it feels kinda weak now, even though ammo for it seems to be common. Regarding dropping the assault rifle, it mostly came down to the fact that I think we had like 1 or 2 red bars worth of ammo for it if I recall, which didn't seem like enough. I think you can make a good case for dropping the ion beam though since as you said our energy has better uses. If we come across another rifle I may swap them out. As far as easily seeing ammo for each weapon...I think there's a screen that might have some more info than the general tab of the HUD, though I don't know if it shows actual total ammo count. I'll try to remember to take a look for it next time. Tiggum posted:That's not exactly true. Solid objects (ie. those that block each other) can't occupy the same horizontal coordinates (so a cacodemon floating up in the sky will prevent you from walking underneath it), but intangible objects (such as projectiles and items) can. Missiles can even pass under or over other objects that they would normally hit (eg. monsters). It's not a matter of the game not being 3D, but certain limitations added intentionally for various reasons. This video explains in more detail. That was a pretty interesting video. Just going by what was said, it seems like DOOM is 3D, but with a lot of 2D game logic to the point where it could almost be played as a top down shooter if you cut off the ceilings and adjusted the sprite art. I guess that's one area where Looking Glass's tech had an advantage - I distinctly remember a dickhead spider jumping on my head in my Ultima Underworld playthrough. It may not have been literally on my head in a coordinate sense, but at least anecdotally I don't remember UU having the same verticality limitations for entity positions.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2022 20:43
|
|
|
Oh yeah, there's no point keeping a gun around if there's not really any ammo for it. It is quite nice how the game is giving us a nicely-paced succession of new weapons to try out.rojovision posted:Minor game audio issues until about 12m in or so. Nothing important missed, though. 
Crazy Achmed fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Nov 26, 2022 |
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2022 05:00
|
|
|
I was talking specifically about in the missing audio, but good catch...I was focused on CRATE. We'll probably run back there next time to check it out.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2022 06:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 12:17 |
|
|
Haha nice. Yeah, the enviro suit upgrade feels pretty major. I wasn't paying much attention but I think I remember logs with a couple of guys talking about suits - I wouldn't be surprised if you're meant to work out which head to bring to the scanner based on the audio logs and emails. I love the little touches like that, and it's stuff like this that really does make this feel more like a dungron crawl than a Doom clone.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2022 11:25
|
|