|
Rationale posted:Worst-case scenario I’m right back where I am now. How certain are you this is the worst case scenario? Do you have an IRL friend(not your wife) you can tell all this to and get an honest opinion?
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2022 16:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 01:03 |
|
|
You def need to post updates so we can follow this. I think it’s a very bad idea given you don’t have a business plan and don’t seem interested in ironing one out, plus no food experience. I do hope it goes well for you, just feels like the odds are def not good. But hey, at least it’ll be an adventure.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 23:55
|
|
|
Can you buy donuts from someone else to see what your sales will be like before buying the monorail from the monorail salesman?
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2022 00:42
|
|
|
OP read this article: https://torontolife.com/food/restaurant-ruined-life/ Read it a second time. Then think about if any of that sounds familiar.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2022 01:04
|
|
|
I would assume there would be zoning regulations about starting a drive thru, is that something you've looked into?
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2022 03:10
|
|
|
GoodluckJonathan posted:How certain are you this is the worst case scenario? Do you have an IRL friend(not your wife) you can tell all this to and get an honest opinion? If I open and operate with cash money then yeah, the worst that can happen is it fails and I close and take donuts to every party I attend for the rest of my life. The dire warnings I’ve been getting are like “it’s a lot of work” and “you have to use commercial equipment “ which both go without saying really.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2022 15:23
|
|
in'
|
Elephanthead posted:Can you buy donuts from someone else to see what your sales will be like before buying the monorail from the monorail salesman? This is a non-starter for me. I want to make good coffee and amazing donuts. I want people to be like “drat, these are some really nice donuts” I don’t want to leave my first impression up to some other rear end in a top hat.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2022 15:30
|
|
|
cheque_some posted:I would assume there would be zoning regulations about starting a drive thru, is that something you've looked into? It’s zoned commercial and city hall knows what we’re about. What’s been pissing me off is that they want me to get a structural engineer to bless the masonry work because the windows are going to be cut into a load bearing wall. Closing in a man door on that side of the building so I’ll actually have more blocks than when I started. I’ll need him to sign off on the grease hood either way but the roof will actually be losing material where the wall is gaining it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2022 15:35
|
|
|
Midjack posted:OP read this article: https://torontolife.com/food/restaurant-ruined-life/ He paid $475 to have his hood cleaned and I’ve spiffed up five pieces of equipment for free so I’m $2375 ahead of that clown. Maybe I’m not a kitchen guy but I’m not a fuckin spreadsheet guy either. I’m also planning to do most of the cooking myself to save labor. Most of my ingredients will be shelf-stable so compressor disasters aren’t a thing. He got in because he loved food I’m getting in because I see a gap in the market.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2022 15:51
|
|
|
Duckman2008 posted:You def need to post updates so we can follow this. They’re liquidating a school about an hour from me and I’m the lead bidder on a 12’ grease hood and a 40qt mixer as well as a bunch of racks and pans and small wares. If I win I’ll pay my homie to haul them down because I’ve been working 7x12 and I don’t have the time. I can’t figure out what a business plan is business seems so silly to me I walked by a classroom one time and dude had PROFIT=REVENUE-COSTS on the board like it was some sort of wisdom. The long and short of my business plan is that the ingredients cost less than the product and the competition isn’t nearby. I own the building, I’ve built out a hundred kitchens, I don’t need a loan. Literally what is a business plan they sound made up.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2022 16:04
|
|
|
well i'm convinced
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2022 16:16
|
|
|
Rationale posted:This is a non-starter for me. I want to make good coffee and amazing donuts. I want people to be like “drat, these are some really nice donuts” I don’t want to leave my first impression up to some other rear end in a top hat. Just make sure you're not buying gear that needs particular pre mix donut dough, or is only servicable by them
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2022 16:25
|
|
|
KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:well i'm convinced
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2022 16:31
|
|
|
Rationale posted:They’re liquidating a school about an hour from me and I’m the lead bidder on a 12’ grease hood and a 40qt mixer as well as a bunch of racks and pans and small wares. If I win I’ll pay my homie to haul them down because I’ve been working 7x12 and I don’t have the time. Please at least commit to never stop posting about what is going on.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2022 16:42
|
|
|
Rationale posted:This is a non-starter for me. I want to make good coffee and amazing donuts. I want people to be like “drat, these are some really nice donuts” I don’t want to leave my first impression up to some other rear end in a top hat. Rationale posted:Found some janky dunkin automatic espresso machines for 250 each America runs on Dunkin.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2022 16:51
|
|
|
Selling donuts is a high risk business Running a retail shop is a high risk business They're going to exponentially increase the risk of each other, plus you have no idea what you're doing. To answer your thread title's question, "No" But really the deal here is you got a Free Building and this is what you want to do with it. This is going to be a (time-consuming, life-altering) hobby where you might break even if you value your time at $0 and don't care about a return on capital of the building. I don't think you're going to be hosed even if it all fails, because you have a literal free commercial building and thus the stakes are low, but have you considered getting some experience with the Donuts & Coffee part first, so you don't have to learn that while also learning how to run a storefront? - Get a table at a farmer's market and sell donuts & a limited coffee menu - See if a local grocery store will stock your donuts on the shelves (this is surprisingly easy to do) - Look at calendars of community events in your town, contact churches, AA meetings etc and ask if you can provide them their goods for a bit - Just fuckin' make a whole bunch of donuts and coffees for your friends and family and give them away for free for a while and see what's good
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2022 16:53
|
|
|
Rationale posted:I can’t figure out what a business plan is business seems so silly to me I walked by a classroom one time and dude had PROFIT=REVENUE-COSTS on the board like it was some sort of wisdom. The long and short of my business plan is that the ingredients cost less than the product and the competition isn’t nearby. I own the building, I’ve built out a hundred kitchens, I don’t need a loan. Literally what is a business plan they sound made up. Or to say it in another way: There's never been a restaurant that went bankrupt because the ingredients cost more than price of the meal, but most restaurants fail. A business plan is your strategy to avoid that.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2022 17:00
|
|
|
I think you've identified a decent opportunity, and you're background gives you an advantage when it comes to startup costs. My only concern is your revenue and profit projects are probably way off. I haven't been involved in the restaurant industry in over 20 years, but when I was a hourly manager at a restaurant net profit at the restaurant level of 17 to 23% was a pretty decent week, but any sort of unexpected maintenance could make the week red. The only other red flag to me is your expectation on how fast things are going to go. You're not going to be pumping out 200 espresso based drinks an hour. Most customers can't even provide payment in 30 seconds or so. Things will be much slower than you anticipate. Have you ever watched someone try to order a dozen mixed donuts? There's a lot of hemming and hawing. It slows things down. If I were in your shoes I would be skipping the espresso drinks completely when I first opened. Bottled Milks, OJ, and canned energy drinks, and then hot coffee and cold brew. A selection of flavored syrups and a few milk options and that should keep you plenty busy. Espresso machines are expensive and temperamental. Once you get established think about adding espresso based drinks to the menu.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2022 17:04
|
|
|
GoGoGadgetChris posted:- Get a table at a farmer's market and sell donuts & a limited coffee menu
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2022 20:15
|
|
i like nice words
|
quote:But really the deal here is you got a Free Building... On this point... whatever you do, please do not do anything with this business idea that puts your building as collateral. I think running your own coffee/donut shop is a bad business decision, but you do you. If you do it correctly (IANAL, etc etc), the worst-case scenario is you lose some cash and time, and then rent out the building like you should have in the first place. Don't do anything to sabotage your ownership of that building. Out here where I live, there are all these iconic businesses where the owners are retiring or closing from pandemic costs, etc etc, and I'm learning that they never owned the building they were in. Places I never would have dreamed were leasing, were leasing for like 40-70 years from the owners. No matter what I think of the owners themselves, like it or not, there was a building owner hiding behind that (bar, diner, clothing store, etc etc) pocketing money while doing next to nothing for decades. That could be you (on a shorter time-scale, probably, but all the same). Edit: Don't cash out retirement accounts, take a reverse mortgage, raid the college funds, etc etc. None of that either. Sundae fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Oct 12, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2022 20:22
|
|
|
what could possibly go wrong? business plans are for loving nerds, drat right. go with your gut. also i can't believe your city wants to inspect the holes you're cutting in your load bearing wall. but what they don't know can't hurt them!!!!!
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2022 00:44
|
|
|
If it's all shoestring and bootstrapping, he's right he doesn't need a Business PlanTM. He probably does need to run the numbers to see how much he has to sell to cover overhead, what to charge, how many staff hours, etc.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2022 01:01
|
|
|
Upgrade posted:what could possibly go wrong? business plans are for loving nerds, drat right. go with your gut. also i can't believe your city wants to inspect the holes you're cutting in your load bearing wall. but what they don't know can't hurt them!!!!! If you can cut a hole in a donut you can cut a hole in a brick structural wall.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2022 01:43
|
|
|
KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:well i'm convinced
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2022 03:09
|
|
|
Elephanthead posted:If you can cut a hole in a donut you can cut a hole in a brick structural wall. I’ve literally done it for pay and it worked. You cut the lintel in before you take the blocks out and it’s all hunky dory. Now, the whole wall can’t be lintel but I’m literally adding more blocks (and common bond bottom block) as a ten-year construction worker and so it ruffles my feathers when they tell me I need their permission. If I wanna knock my poo poo over just let me knock my poo poo over its not your problem jeez
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2022 13:56
|
|
|
Anne Whateley posted:He doesn't even make donuts now. He needs the magic automated $$$$ donut machine that only fits in a store and uses the magic mixes. I fried some pillsbury crescent dough in my Dutch oven last night and it came out loving delicious so there.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2022 14:12
|
|
|
GoGoGadgetChris posted:
Yeah before we open the store I intend to make a few hundred dozen to familiarize myself and git gud at frying dough. The same way your first bit of crack is free I plan on putting a whole lot of free product out there before I flip the sign. I’ve never had luck at a farmers market but I’ll bet donuts sell easier than freezer beef. There’s a lot of church activity locally like literally every night of the week there’s a church function within ten minutes of the kitchen so I could strategically pull up with refreshments at the addiction recovery meeting. Maybe that will become an avenue for getting rid of unsold donuts in the future. I
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2022 14:25
|
|
|
Rationale posted:They’re liquidating a school about an hour from me and I’m the lead bidder on a 12’ grease hood and a 40qt mixer as well as a bunch of racks and pans and small wares. If I win I’ll pay my homie to haul them down because I’ve been working 7x12 and I don’t have the time. How much money are you bringing in each month, and what estimates is that based from? How much does it cost to make a donut, including labor and waste? What are you going to pay your employees, and how many hours a month do you need from them? What are your non payroll wage expenses (employer paid FICA, health insurance, 401k, unemployment insurance etc)? What are your operating expenses? Business insurance, telecomm and utilities, property taxes, subscriptions to point of sale systems, repairs and maintenance on your equipment and building etc What are your startup costs? Think display cases, point of sale system hardware, kitchen stuff like bowls and knives and shelves, tables and chairs, etc What are you paying yourself for a salary? If you’re not paying yourself, why is this a good value for your time? Take all of these values and put them into a spreadsheet to see if the math works. These will be estimates, and you can tweak those estimates to see the conditions under which your business may fail or succeed. What happens if you get 20% less customers than you think? What if waste is 10% higher than expected? What if your buildout costs 50% more due to unforeseen expenses? A GIANT PARSNIP fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Oct 14, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2022 13:03
|
|
|
Here’s more expenses for your business plan: The cost of packaging and boxes for your product Napkins/utensils/cups/bathroom supplies Sanitation and cleaning supplies Credit card fees Worker’s comp insurance Laundry (aprons/uniforms/towels/rags/rugs) and the cost to clean them Ads and coupons Business and Health department licenses and fees Outside signs and signage/menus etc inside Freezers and refrigerators for your kitchen, and possibly up front for some products Also here’s more stuff you have to do yourself, or pay someone else to do: Run weekly/biweekly payrolls, including hounding everyone go get their time in and remitting federal and state payroll taxes Remitting sales taxes and other business taxes (is your product taxable in your state?) Run the HR side of employees, including resolving employee conflict and paperwork issues like COBRA and benefit eligibility Paying your vendors Landscaping and possibly snow removal Pest control IT support Monthly and annual accounting Getting change and bringing money to the bank, and securely storing money on site
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2022 14:25
|
|
|
Benefits, haha
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2022 16:16
|
|
|
A GIANT PARSNIP posted:How much money are you bringing in each month, and what estimates is that based from? this is nerd poo poo, gently caress off the OP doesn't need no business plan.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2022 15:16
|
|
|
Has op literally ever baked a donut
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2022 15:54
|
|
|
If you want to actually succeed in this space just franchise a dunkin
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2022 15:54
|
|
|
Donuts are fried, not baked, at least if you want people to enjoy them and of course he has!! Rationale posted:I fried some pillsbury crescent dough in my Dutch oven last night and it came out loving delicious so there.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2022 16:49
|
|
|
Bloody posted:If you want to actually succeed in this space just franchise a dunkin I started an effort post about how Dunkin makes most of its money from franchise fees and even they don’t bother with the real work (because that’s a sucker’s game of long-hour low-pay), but OP ain’t worth it. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2022 18:00
|
|
|
I know he's kinda egging it on, but the hostility seems weird and unnecessary. If the dude wants to play fast and loose, it's his chip stack to blow. What is shouting at him that he should play tighter going to help?
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2022 20:44
|
|
|
Epitope posted:I know he's kinda egging it on, but the hostility seems weird and unnecessary. If the dude wants to play fast and loose, it's his chip stack to blow. What is shouting at him that he should play tighter going to help? It's a dead gay comedy forum, he asked for advice and responded to that advice with "what you studied for 6 years and do for a living is loving stupid - I'm a lone wolf, and I'll defeat the system" Then he just endlessly doubles down on like "why do I have to have an inspection in a load bearing wall that I want to cut holes on that could potentially collapse and kill someone - I'm adding MORE BRICKS". I don't think anyone is actually hostile to him though, I think we're just sort of mocking him for being like "well 90%+ of sole proprietorships fail in the first 5 years, but I'm smarter than all those guys, and all you guys advising me to do the things that would prepare me for potential issues, Honey Badger don't care". By all means, do very little planning, just start buying stuff because "it's a good deal vs retail" and start making a product you've never made and running a line of business (literally afaik no real entrepreneurial experience) you've no experience in. Just don't stop posting about it. The agreement is made. The covenant will be enforced.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2022 21:18
|
|
|
Epitope posted:I know he's kinda egging it on, but the hostility seems weird and unnecessary. If the dude wants to play fast and loose, it's his chip stack to blow. What is shouting at him that he should play tighter going to help? This subforum is what, 15 years old? Do you know how many times we've done this song and dance? It's the business equivalent of Goon Trapped In Well (https://forums.somethingawful.com/dictionary.php?act=3&topicid=2189), but since we all recognize it now, we start pissing on them a little early. Plus, dead gay comedy forum. We gave our real, legit advice and now it's time for mockery until the next  Sundae fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Oct 15, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2022 21:35
|
|
|
I was mostly talking about you and upgrade. I thought maybe you'd just forgotten yourself, since you seem like a conscientious human in general. Anyway, to use your analogy, skipping straight to peeing seems less fun to me, so don't skip ahead please
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2022 22:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 01:03 |
|
|
Rationale posted:I also don’t want to franchise I want well-paid workers in my community. Sorry, I want to revisit this -> I wasn't saying actually become a franchise. I was saying: reach out to Dunkin and Krispy Kreme about being a franchise and let them pitch you. They will give you a bunch of poo poo about the location and start-up costs. They will basically hand you a business plan. Granted in the next couple of pages you've revealed that you think business plans are a waste of time, but even so, I'd highly recommend at least reaching out to them and seeing what you can learn by having them pitch you.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2022 00:41
|
|