Robert Heinlein's Militarist Utopia MOD CHALLENGE PAGE 4

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Internet VFW > Robert Heinlein's Militarist Utopia MOD CHALLENGE PAGE 4

Kurzon: May 10, 2013; by Hand Knit

In the novel Starship Troopers by Robert Heinlein, only veterans are allowed to vote. Heinlein believed that veterans would vote more wisely than non-veterans because they understand discipline and sacrifice, which would lead to better governance. But selectorate theory tells me that this would be a terrible idea.

Only 7% of Americans are veterans and therefore only 7% of the American population would have a vote in Heinlein's Utopia. Since voter turnout in elections is never 100% and a candidate needs a majority of the vote to win, you're talking about presidents winning elections with just 1 or 2% of the population's support. This is what political scientists call a small-coalition regime. In a small-coalition regime, the ruler is incentivized to run a regime oriented towards private rewards. He looks after the interests of that 2% at the expense of everybody else, because he only needs that 2% of people supporting him to stay in power. This will lead to a neglect of public goods. The country will have worse roads, worse education systems, worse healthcare, etc. The people will actually be worse off.

What's more, the veterans themselves won't have it so good either. A feature of small-coalition regimes is that the members of the coalition are always looking to expel members and reduce the size of the coalition, so that the surviving members can have larger fractions of the pie for themselves. So what I imagine would happen is that, over time, the ruler would pass laws narrowing what "veteran" means. He might pass laws saying that only veterans who served a minimum number of years can vote. Or maybe only veterans above a certain rank (eg anyone below captain cannot vote). Or maybe only veterans who served in combat roles. Whatever, the idea is to reduce the number of people who are eligible to vote, thereby reducing the size of the winning coalition. The smaller the coalition, the easier it is for the ruler to hold on to power.

What Heinlein's Utopia will be is what Bruce Bueno de Mesquita calls a junta regime. Small coalition, small selectorate. These kinds of regimes are very unstable. Junta leaders face coup d'etats far more often than dictators or democratic leaders.

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Kurzon fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Sep 25, 2022

# ? Sep 25, 2022 12:50

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 05:01

A.o.D.: Jan 15, 2006; The Suffering of the Succotash.

Good morning. How are you doing today?

# ? Sep 25, 2022 13:27

Sacrist65: Mar 24, 2007; Frunnkiss

Starship Troopers the movie is the best possible rebuke to the ideas in Starship Troopers the book.

# ? Sep 25, 2022 14:22

bulletsponge13: Apr 28, 2010

Kurzon posted:

In the novel Starship Troopers by Robert Heinlein, only veterans are allowed to vote. Heinlein believed that veterans would vote more wisely than non-veterans because they understand discipline and sacrifice, which would lead to better governance. But selectorate theory tells me that this would be a terrible idea.

Only 7% of Americans are veterans and therefore only 7% of the American population would have a vote in Heinlein's Utopia. Since voter turnout in elections is never 100% and a candidate needs at least half of the vote to win, you're talking about presidents winning elections with just 1 or 2% of the population's support. This is what political scientists call a small-coalition regime. In a small-coalition regime, the ruler is incentivized to run a regime oriented towards private rewards. He looks after the interests of that 2% at the expense of everybody else, because he only needs that 2% of people supporting him to stay in power. This will lead to a neglect of public goods. The country will have worse roads, worse education systems, worse healthcare, etc. The people will actually be worse off.

What's more, the veterans themselves won't have it so good either. A feature of small-coalition regimes is that the members of the coalition are always looking to expel members and reduce the size of the coalition, so that the surviving members can have larger fractions of the pie for themselves. So what I imagine would happen is that, over time, the ruler would pass laws narrowing what "veteran" means. He might pass laws saying that only veterans who served a minimum number of years can vote. Or maybe only veterans above a certain rank (eg anyone below captain cannot vote). Or maybe only veterans who served in combat roles. Whatever, the idea is to reduce the number of people who are eligible to vote, thereby reducing the size of the winning coalition. The smaller the coalition, the easier it is for the ruler to hold on to power.

What Heinlein's Utopia will be is what Bruce Bueno de Mesquita calls a junta regime. Small coalition, small selectorate. These kinds of regimes are very unstable. Junta leaders face coup d'etats far more often than dictators or democratic leaders.

# ? Sep 25, 2022 15:14

Loden Taylor: Aug 11, 2003

goddamn bugs whacked us johnny

# ? Sep 25, 2022 15:21

A Festivus Miracle: Dec 19, 2012; I have come to discourse on the profound inequities of the American political system.

Hey, the exact same process of "actually you're not part of the in group" is why Sparta fell from temporary regional power to irrelevance.

This is part, and just part, of why oligarchy is loving retarded and the morons who lick Elon's nuts are way, way more dumb then they think. No human is special and democracy is literally the only reason why things have ever gotten better for your average person.

# ? Sep 25, 2022 16:18

Kurzon: May 10, 2013; by Hand Knit

A.o.D. posted:

Good morning. How are you doing today?

I need a hug. Open your arms wide for me.

# ? Sep 25, 2022 16:32

A.o.D.: Jan 15, 2006; The Suffering of the Succotash.

Kurzon posted:

I need a hug. Open your arms wide for me.

Don't hug me I'm scared.

# ? Sep 25, 2022 16:41

habituallyred: Feb 6, 2015

Better or worse than a society where your income is determined by where you fall on the "artificial selection" hierarchy? Think GATTACA but the author is pro discrimination.

More of Sci-fi Wifi thread.

# ? Sep 25, 2022 17:02

Kurzon: May 10, 2013; by Hand Knit

Sacrist65 posted:

Starship Troopers the movie is the best possible rebuke to the ideas in Starship Troopers the book.

A lot of people tell me that the movie is a satire of military rule, which is funny because the book champions military rule.

# ? Sep 25, 2022 17:06

pantslesswithwolves: Oct 28, 2008; Ba-dam ba-DUMMMMMM

Loden Taylor posted:

goddamn bugs whacked us johnny

I�m from Buenos Aires and I say kill �em all!

# ? Sep 25, 2022 17:16

McNally: Sep 13, 2007; Ask me about Proposition 305

Do you like muskets?

Kurzon posted:

a candidate needs at least half of the vote to win

Since when?

# ? Sep 25, 2022 17:30

LtCol J. Krusinski: May 7, 2013

Honestly if selling weed or writing bad checks can disqualify you from voting- being a Veteran should disqualify you from everything.

Think about it. We haven�t had a draft in 50 years. Every single loving veteran from the last half century volunteered to be in the military.

Like, there needs to be a separation boot camp for vets. Some kind of �Hey, let�s make you loving normal, if not whole, again.� school that you have to do before you can get a DD-214.

Starship Troopers is not a great book. I read it as a kid, then years later saw the movie and was like� How is a movie better than the book?!? Seriously I never saw the movie in theaters because my dad and friends and uncles were all raving about it and I was just like �Haha, yeah I wanna watch a movie about fighting in exosuits that are nuclear powered and can�t be pushed on their backs because it�ll cause an explosion.� and they looked at me and thought I was crazy, and said I had no idea what I was talking about. :shrug:

Fast forward a little bit, Starship Troopers is for rent at the Video Store and I check it out.

10,000x better than the book, and really is hilarious on so many goddamn levels while still having legit visceral moments.

Starship Troopers is not a great movie. But it�s a lot loving better than the book it�s parodying and elevating at the same time.

After my stint in the Forever Wars the original book, in audiobook format this time, became much more� poignant? Something. The book is almost entirely about boot camp and training. When I look back now, it�s boot camp and training that were the highlights of my time in uniform.

Like yeah, no glory in that kinda stuff, but also a lot less painful or traumatic memories.

Plus in Starship Troopers the book, you can smoke weed in boot camp. That uh, yeah. That speaks to me now. Imagine getting paid to just do dumbass boot camp poo poo and at the end of the duty day you and your friends get to smoke weed in the day room or something. I�d do 40 years of boot camp if it was similar to Starship Troopers in that regard.

Then again, you get whipped like Kunta Kinte for minor infractions in bootcamp in Starship Troopers the book. Not just for getting dudes killed. In fact they straight up hang dudes or are authorized to shoot and kill trainees in the book.

What I�m saying is, I�m old now so I think of boot camp and (some) training memorably. It was so easy, looking back. I think to myself �How great would it be to do boot camp as a grown rear end man. Who gets to smoke weed, grow a beard, and get occasional liberty passes?�

Pretty loving great if you ask me. I was extremely young when I did boot camp and it was only 7 (6?) and a half weeks longs. But 7 weeks is forever to a kid, and 25-29 year old NCO�s can intimidate the gently caress out of you, they�ve been perfecting that system since time immemorial. If I did like crab dad and joined in my 30�s, and they let me smoke weed, grow a beard, etc? poo poo. I�d be all over that. All over it. In fact I�d become a boot camp training instructor.

Think of how fun and chill it all would and could have been if you just did it later in life, and with weed.

Anyway, I�d like a 10 piece McNugget, and like, as much Schezwan Sauce as you are allowed to give me. Oh, and a large coke. Thank you Doctor President, I�ll pull around to the second window as soon as I descend from this higher state of the astral plain bagel, sweet Jesus have you ever had your prostrate milked? It�s like all coal trains got loaded with orgasms and Xi Jinping sent over half his male population to build the tracks to have all those orgasm trains converge inside your rear end.

Peace and love, brother.

LtCol J. Krusinski fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Sep 25, 2022

# ? Sep 25, 2022 17:37

bulletsponge13: Apr 28, 2010

Veteran =/= Military in Starship Troopers- something you are conveniently leaving out.

# ? Sep 25, 2022 17:54

Grip it and rip it: Apr 28, 2020

What you aren't considering is that if only veterans were granted the franchise, then politically active individuals would be drawn to military service. They may subsequently be killed in whatever military engagements take place. This process of elimination would undoubtedly have a net positive effect on society. Thank you

bulletsponge13 posted:

Veteran =/= Military in Starship Troopers- something you are conveniently leaving out.

Also applying the numbers of our system to a hypothetical system is uh, apples to oranges at best.

# ? Sep 25, 2022 18:09

bulletsponge13: Apr 28, 2010

Rico and his generation will never get to exercise their franchise.
They cannot vote until they get discharged; they cannot be discharged until after the war. Their Oath is not less than two years, and no longer than the needs of the Federation.

# ? Sep 25, 2022 19:12

Hyrax Attack!: Jan 13, 2009; We demand to be taken seriously

Kurzon posted:

What's more, the veterans themselves won't have it so good either. A feature of small-coalition regimes is that the members of the coalition are always looking to expel members and reduce the size of the coalition, so that the surviving members can have larger fractions of the pie for themselves.

Yeah that�s a huge issue for some Native tribes with casinos as every person who gets kicked off their membership rolls means a bigger piece of the pie. Which is awful as people can lose housing they�ve been in for decades.

LtCol J. Krusinski posted:

Starship Troopers is not a great movie. But it�s a lot loving better than the book it�s parodying and elevating at the same time.

Gonna politely disagree, it has flaws but a recent rewatch affirmed my belief it holds up well and I pick up something new each time. Especially as a satire of fascism, plus the battle scenes and starship models still look great.

It�s interesting to come away realizing the Federation is losing the war, Rico will likely be dead soon because of awful tactics, and the bugs didn�t start the war or know where earth is or have FTL tech but because of brain drains they are a super danger.

# ? Sep 25, 2022 20:54

Kurzon: May 10, 2013; by Hand Knit

Hyrax Attack! posted:

Yeah that�s a huge issue for some Native tribes with casinos as every person who gets kicked off their membership rolls means a bigger piece of the pie. Which is awful as people can lose housing they�ve been in for decades.

Is this really the same issue? Let me explain.

In large-coalition regimes, otherwise known as democracies, the leaders are incentivized to deliver public rewards. Public rewards are things which are enjoyed by everyone, such as good roads, good public education, civil liberties, etc. Public rewards have the effect of making the economy grow. Democracies tend to be more prosperous than autocracies. Past a certain threshold, members of the coalition in a large-coalition system actually want bring in new members to the coalition, because will put even more pressure on the government to govern responsibly, further growing the economy. Although everyone gets a smaller fraction of the pie, the pie grows larger, so everyone actually ends up with more.

Do you think Native casinos could exist in that state? That they could become a large coalition system where the members actually want to be inclusive?

# ? Sep 25, 2022 21:15

Sacrist65: Mar 24, 2007; Frunnkiss

Kurzon posted:

Is this really the same issue? Let me explain.

In large-coalition regimes, otherwise known as democracies, the leaders are incentivized to deliver public rewards. Public rewards are things which are enjoyed by everyone, such as good roads, good public education, civil liberties, etc. Public rewards have the effect of making the economy grow. Democracies tend to be more prosperous than autocracies. Past a certain threshold, members of the coalition in a large-coalition system actually want bring in new members to the coalition, because will put even more pressure on the government to govern responsibly, further growing the economy. Although everyone gets a smaller fraction of the pie, the pie grows larger, so everyone actually ends up with more.
Do you think Native casinos could exist in that state? That they could become a large coalition system where the members actually want to be inclusive?

Republicans have been actively shrinking the percentage of people who can/will vote since the southern strategy and the survival of their belief system depends on it. They realized control of the judicial branch is more effective for their owners than growing their coalition.

# ? Sep 25, 2022 23:08

Melthir: Dec 29, 2009; I need to go scrap some money together cause my avatar is just sad.

You guys are forgetting a key point of the book. Service is citizenship. Service is a jobs and housing program that gives the right to vote to those that "do there part" wether it's a blind dude counting beans for MRE or a janitor. The story is told from the point of view of a spoiled kid who was literally to dumb to get any other job other then infantry and is not only stupid but doubles down and makes getting shot at a permanent career choice. It's still a poo poo story though.

# ? Sep 25, 2022 23:14

US Berder Patrol: Jul 11, 2006; oorah

Kurzon posted:

In the novel Starship Troopers by Robert Heinlein, only veterans are allowed to vote. Heinlein believed that veterans would vote more wisely than non-veterans because they understand discipline and sacrifice, which would lead to better governance. But selectorate theory tells me that this would be a terrible idea.

Only 7% of Americans are veterans and therefore only 7% of the American population would have a vote in Heinlein's Utopia. Since voter turnout in elections is never 100% and a candidate needs a majority of the vote to win, you're talking about presidents winning elections with just 1 or 2% of the population's support. This is what political scientists call a small-coalition regime. In a small-coalition regime, the ruler is incentivized to run a regime oriented towards private rewards. He looks after the interests of that 2% at the expense of everybody else, because he only needs that 2% of people supporting him to stay in power. This will lead to a neglect of public goods. The country will have worse roads, worse education systems, worse healthcare, etc. The people will actually be worse off.

What's more, the veterans themselves won't have it so good either. A feature of small-coalition regimes is that the members of the coalition are always looking to expel members and reduce the size of the coalition, so that the surviving members can have larger fractions of the pie for themselves. So what I imagine would happen is that, over time, the ruler would pass laws narrowing what "veteran" means. He might pass laws saying that only veterans who served a minimum number of years can vote. Or maybe only veterans above a certain rank (eg anyone below captain cannot vote). Or maybe only veterans who served in combat roles. Whatever, the idea is to reduce the number of people who are eligible to vote, thereby reducing the size of the winning coalition. The smaller the coalition, the easier it is for the ruler to hold on to power.

What Heinlein's Utopia will be is what Bruce Bueno de Mesquita calls a junta regime. Small coalition, small selectorate. These kinds of regimes are very unstable. Junta leaders face coup d'etats far more often than dictators or democratic leaders.

Hm, not exactly what I took away from the book, but can't say I disagree with you

well, have a good day

# ? Sep 26, 2022 00:57

ded: Oct 27, 2005; Kooler than Jesus

Kurzon posted:

In the novel Starship Troopers by Robert Heinlein, only veterans are allowed to vote. Heinlein believed that veterans would vote more wisely than non-veterans because they understand discipline and sacrifice, which would lead to better governance. But selectorate theory tells me that this would be a terrible idea.

Only 7% of Americans are veterans and therefore only 7% of the American population would have a vote in Heinlein's Utopia. Since voter turnout in elections is never 100% and a candidate needs a majority of the vote to win, you're talking about presidents winning elections with just 1 or 2% of the population's support. This is what political scientists call a small-coalition regime. In a small-coalition regime, the ruler is incentivized to run a regime oriented towards private rewards. He looks after the interests of that 2% at the expense of everybody else, because he only needs that 2% of people supporting him to stay in power. This will lead to a neglect of public goods. The country will have worse roads, worse education systems, worse healthcare, etc. The people will actually be worse off.

What's more, the veterans themselves won't have it so good either. A feature of small-coalition regimes is that the members of the coalition are always looking to expel members and reduce the size of the coalition, so that the surviving members can have larger fractions of the pie for themselves. So what I imagine would happen is that, over time, the ruler would pass laws narrowing what "veteran" means. He might pass laws saying that only veterans who served a minimum number of years can vote. Or maybe only veterans above a certain rank (eg anyone below captain cannot vote). Or maybe only veterans who served in combat roles. Whatever, the idea is to reduce the number of people who are eligible to vote, thereby reducing the size of the winning coalition. The smaller the coalition, the easier it is for the ruler to hold on to power.

What Heinlein's Utopia will be is what Bruce Bueno de Mesquita calls a junta regime. Small coalition, small selectorate. These kinds of regimes are very unstable. Junta leaders face coup d'etats far more often than dictators or democratic leaders.

fascism is bad you say? well well very interesting

# ? Sep 26, 2022 01:52

My Spirit Otter: Jun 15, 2006; CANADA DOESN'T GET PENS LIKE THIS

SKILCRAFT KREW Reppin' Quality Blind Made American Products. Bitch.

i dont know why you posted this here. we hate most vets and think facism is bad. kinda preachin to thr choir

# ? Sep 26, 2022 05:56

Force de Fappe: Nov 7, 2008

Veteran worship is the only thing I can think of which is even dumber than the military

# ? Sep 26, 2022 11:22

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

That's where you go "As a veteran: You realize we all loving suck, right?"

Anyways, Fascism bad, never meet your heroes, veterans rights for all, etc.

# ? Sep 26, 2022 19:52

Force de Fappe: Nov 7, 2008

gently caress you for your service

# ? Sep 26, 2022 23:28

Steezo: Jun 16, 2003; Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time!

Force de Fappe posted:

gently caress you for your service

Are you threatening me with a good time?

# ? Sep 26, 2022 23:33

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Force de Fappe posted:

gently caress you for your service

# ? Sep 27, 2022 00:21

bulletsponge13: Apr 28, 2010

Force de Fappe posted:

gently caress you for your service

Buy me dinner first.

# ? Sep 27, 2022 00:32

ASAPI: Apr 20, 2007; I invented the line.

I really don't understand TikTok challenges.

# ? Sep 27, 2022 01:21

Voyager I: Jun 29, 2012; This is how your posting feels.
🐥🐥🐥🐥🐥

Trying to figure out what the bit is here. It's written like a high school paper, but I can't imagine any actual teenagers have wandered onto these forums since the Bush administration, and if they have it certainly wasn't to get their book report critiqued.

The fact that it's also a very flimsy takedown with immediately obvious holes makes me think it's got to be some kind of bait, but by someone who somehow thinks this subforum is Pro-Fascism and will whip itself into a frenzy to defend the honor of Heinlein???

It's baffling.

# ? Sep 27, 2022 04:30

Loden Taylor: Aug 11, 2003

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVRtFQVK9mI

# ? Sep 27, 2022 04:35

McNally: Sep 13, 2007; Ask me about Proposition 305

Do you like muskets?

What seems to have happened is that OP saw a YouTube video about Heinlein and had to tell people about it.

Kurzon posted:

I just watched a YouTube video on Heinlein.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8AyxQ-J1no

In the novel Starship Troopers, only veterans are allowed to vote. Heinlein believed that veterans would vote more wisely than non-veterans because they understand discipline and sacrifice, which would lead to better governance. But selectorate theory tells me that this would be a terrible idea.

Only 7% of Americans are veterans and therefore only 7% of the American population would have a vote in Heinlein's Utopia. Since voter turnout in elections is never 100% and a candidate needs only a majority of the vote to win, you're talking about presidents winning elections with something like 2% of the population's support. This is what political scientists call a small-coalition regime. In a small-coalition regime, the ruler is incentivized to run a regime oriented towards private rewards. He looks after the interests of that 2% at the expense of everybody else, because he only needs that 2% of people supporting him to stay in power. This will lead to a neglect of public goods. The country will have worse roads, worse education systems, worse healthcare, etc. The people will actually be worse off.

What's more, the veterans themselves won't have it so good either. A feature of small-coalition regimes is that the members of the coalition are always looking to expel members and reduce the size of the coalition, so that the surviving members can have larger fractions of the pie for themselves. So what I imagine would happen is that, over time, the ruler would pass laws narrowing what "veteran" means. He might pass laws saying that only veterans who served a minimum number of years can vote. Or maybe only veterans above a certain rank (eg anyone below captain cannot vote). Or maybe only veterans who served in combat roles. Whatever, the idea is to reduce the number of people who are eligible to vote, thereby reducing the size of the winning coalition. The smaller the coalition, the easier it is for the ruler to hold on to power.

What Heinlein's Utopia will be is what Bruce Bueno de Mesquita calls a junta regime. Small coalition, small selectorate. These kinds of regimes are very unstable. Junta leaders face revolts far more often than dictators or democratic leaders. So Heinlein's Utopia will be lovely for everyone.

Then someone said this

No. No more dancing! posted:

I'm sure GIP posters could tell you better than anyone else just what an absolutely terrible idea it would be.

And apparently OP took this to mean "go tell GIP what you learned"

Frankly, I'm offended that OP just copy/pasted what they wrote in the other thread. Self-plagiarism is still plagiarism and I deem you to have failed this self-assigned homework.

# ? Sep 27, 2022 04:50

Steezo: Jun 16, 2003; Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time!

Voyager I posted:

The fact that it's also a very flimsy takedown with immediately obvious holes makes me think it's got to be some kind of bait, but by someone who somehow thinks this subforum is Pro-Fascism and will whip itself into a frenzy to defend the honor of Heinlein???

The only things I'll defend him on are his love of loving everything that moves and his weird idea for a hospital waterbed.

# ? Sep 27, 2022 05:06

My Spirit Otter: Jun 15, 2006; CANADA DOESN'T GET PENS LIKE THIS

SKILCRAFT KREW Reppin' Quality Blind Made American Products. Bitch.

ASAPI posted:

I really don't understand TikTok challenges.

You dont have to, we're not tiktoks demographic. We're old now.

# ? Sep 27, 2022 06:20

bulletsponge13: Apr 28, 2010

I unabashedly LOVE Starship Troopers. It had a great and lasting impact on my life, but it's got issues.

Also, it feels like either I took the wrong message away, or other's missed the message. To me, it was largely the idyllic sci fi world to brain poo a whole bunch of philosophical musings based on the 'Battle of Athens' which was recent memory when ST was released. I'm not defending the fascism that everyone sees- just that I never saw it? Maybe because I read it as written, and assumed the best of what was presented.

But uh, this is a thread.

# ? Sep 27, 2022 07:14

ASAPI: Apr 20, 2007; I invented the line.

McNally posted:

What seems to have happened is that OP saw a YouTube video about Heinlein and had to tell people about it.

Then someone said this

And apparently OP took this to mean "go tell GIP what you learned"

Frankly, I'm offended that OP just copy/pasted what they wrote in the other thread. Self-plagiarism is still plagiarism and I deem you to have failed this self-assigned homework.

Oh, wow. This makes much more sense.

# ? Sep 27, 2022 13:09

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Loden Taylor posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVRtFQVK9mI

1st Shirt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxmswAiaJ-c

# ? Sep 27, 2022 13:52

pantslesswithwolves: Oct 28, 2008; Ba-dam ba-DUMMMMMM

https://twitter.com/coronarycommie/status/1575588436165402624

Holy poo poo I never noticed that before

# ? Sep 30, 2022 03:21

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 05:01

Qtotonibudinibudet: Nov 7, 2011; Omich poluyobok, skazhi ty narkoman? ya prosto tozhe gde to tam zhivu, mogli by vmeste uyobyvat' narkotiki

living in the heinleinverse would rock cause i would get skewered or dismembered by giant insects, which is badass

EDF!

# ? Sep 30, 2022 06:10

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