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Gaitok is a glorified mall cop, and it’s not his job to shoot anyone in the same way it’s not really a mall cop’s job to tackle shoplifters. More importantly, the whole theme of the show across all seasons is wealth and the pursuit of wealth warping people so I don’t know how anyone can see Gaitok’s arc as anything but tragic.
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Apr 12, 2025 01:49
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demostars posted:Hope LISA's set at Coachella is livestreamed tomorrow, that would be a cool follow-up to seeing her act on Sunday. Looks like it should be on in 90 minutes here!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afO7r8TQTSw
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Apr 12, 2025 02:15
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Wait. Mook is an international pop star?
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Apr 12, 2025 04:13
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Leon Sumbitches posted:Wait. Mook is an international pop star?
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Apr 12, 2025 04:22
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Holy poo poo she's got over 100 million followers on insta lol
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Apr 12, 2025 05:52
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That kind of stardom puts some pretty strict limits on what kind of role she plays and then you end up with a very bland part for a show like this.
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Apr 12, 2025 06:58
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The Puppy Bowl posted:But this gets back to the shows central idea of rationalizations. Because we've been following Gaitok through the story, we know what he believes in his heart to be right in this situation. It is the clouding of his clear understanding by the world and others who have embraced moral rationalization that is at center stage in this scene. See, I don't really think we know what Gaitok believes in his heart all that clearly. We saw this guy for many episodes, and his defining characteristic is that he's ineffectual and cowardly. We saw him freak out when he realized his gun was stolen. We saw him scared to confront Tim about it. We saw Tim brushing him off easily. We saw him have to resort to taking the gun from Tim while he was away. This entire incident did not revolve around an aversion to violence or hurting people, if anything he would be preventing Tim from hurting himself. He was not struggling with that for moral reasons. When he talks about his morals, he brings up the robbery. I don't think what we see there matches what he says. When he spots the robbers he tries to apprehend them, but gets his rear end kicked pretty much immediately. There is nothing in that scene that even remotely suggests that he has a moral dislike of violence. His description of this moral understanding, which comes fairly late IIRC, is what you might consider a "post-facto justification" of how much poo poo he's been eating. Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 10:35 on Apr 12, 2025 |
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Apr 12, 2025 10:24
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I just believe the character when he looks into the camera and explicitly says what he believes, which is consistent with a very clear and blunt character arc that's in line with the themes of other characters and the show in general. I don't think you need to tie yourself into rhetorical knots to believe that a character secretly thinks the opposite of what he explicitly says he believes, turning his arc from a clear fall to temptation into a confused "He's a guy that just does some stuff".
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Apr 12, 2025 12:01
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This is not a show where you should just believe what the characters say about themselves. Most good shows aren't. Good characterization often lies in the difference between self-perception and reality. It's not that the character doesn't believe in the things he says. But these beliefs are only a part of his character, not the whole. IIRC we did not know much about these beliefs until episode 7, yet his behavior was perfectly understandable before. Yet people are talking like we've seen an incredibly devout person over eight episodes. It's simply not true. Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 13:10 on Apr 12, 2025 |
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Apr 12, 2025 12:34
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Pedro De Heredia posted:This is not a show where you should just believe what the characters say about themselves. Most good shows aren't. Good characterization often lies in the difference between self-perception and reality. I understand that, thank you. In this instance I think you are incorrect. You are welcome to your interpretation but I just think it flies in the face of everything we see and know about the character and the show.
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Apr 12, 2025 13:01
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They should have had scenes Giatok reading Vinland Saga in his booth. Maybe then goons would understand.
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Apr 12, 2025 13:46
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Pedro De Heredia posted:This is not a show where you should just believe what the characters say about themselves. Most good shows aren't. Good characterization often lies in the difference between self-perception and reality. Yeah the character came to conclusions about himself based on his experiences, I'm not saying he allowed the robbers to escape through strategic nonviolence because he was a secret Buddhist monk who somehow got a security job now. He faced a series of escalating events that made him realize he now had both the power and the position that would require him to harm people, and thought a lot about it and concluded that he didn't want to do it even if it cost him. Then, when put in an intense pressure cooker situation, he abandoned those ideals and compromised himself for personal gain. It seems like you're arguing the semantic point that if you abandon principles then you never really had them, and sure that's fair.
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Apr 12, 2025 15:35
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Vegetable posted:That might actually be an understatement I’m pretty sure Blackpink is the biggest kpop girl group of any of them, ever. And Mook specifically was the first non-Korean their agency ever signed. Edit: her first solo drop beat T-Swift’s record for most views in 24 hours. Kinda crazy she can still fly under the radar in a U.S. show. idkacat fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Apr 12, 2025 |
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Apr 12, 2025 15:39
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Tender Bender posted:I just believe the character when he looks into the camera and explicitly says what he believes, which is consistent with a very clear and blunt character arc that's in line with the themes of other characters and the show in general. I don't think you need to tie yourself into rhetorical knots to believe that a character secretly thinks the opposite of what he explicitly says he believes, turning his arc from a clear fall to temptation into a confused "He's a guy that just does some stuff". Exactly.
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Apr 12, 2025 17:35
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Tender Bender posted:Yeah the character came to conclusions about himself based on his experiences, I'm not saying he allowed the robbers to escape through strategic nonviolence because he was a secret Buddhist monk who somehow got a security job now. I don't think our positions are that different. I think we'd probably agree that Gaitok lives in a world that rewards violence, and that in the end he is rewarded for committing violence. The debatable parts to me are, to what extent was it a decision to commit violence consciously, how free was the decision, how wrong is it, etc. Interpretation aside, to me personally if the decision amounts to virtue vs. vice then it's not too interesting. I think we get a little more than that (such as his self-worth, self-confidence, etc.) and the story ends up being more interesting. Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Apr 12, 2025 |
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Apr 12, 2025 18:34
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If I'm labeling anyone a coward in this season, it's Tim. Even in the end, he can't open up about what he's done to his family, he just lets them all read about it from their phones. Gaitok is primarly defined by being hopelessly down bad for Mook, which, understandable.
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Apr 12, 2025 18:41
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Pedro De Heredia posted:I don't think our positions are that different. I think we'd probably agree that Gaitok lives in a world that rewards violence, and that in the end he is rewarded for committing violence. The debatable parts to me are, to what extent was it a decision to commit violence consciously, how free was the decision, how wrong is it, etc. Yeah I think we are largely quibbling around the corners here. The problem is, while there are a lot of factors this does ultimately amount to the decision of whether or not to execute an unarmed fleeing man.
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Apr 12, 2025 19:26
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For a show where even the bit characters are great, Mook was super boring. All she did was be hot and disappointed whenever Gaitok expressed his beliefs and then be hot and excited whenever Gaitok was accidentally successful. There's probably a way to execute that where she doesn't come across as a trophy completely lacking in independent thought
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Apr 12, 2025 19:56
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dodgeblan posted:For a show where even the bit characters are great, Mook was super boring. All she did was be hot and disappointed whenever Gaitok expressed his beliefs and then be hot and excited whenever Gaitok was accidentally successful. There's probably a way to execute that where she doesn't come across as a trophy completely lacking in independent thought Her thoughts are specifically independent from Gaitok's.
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Apr 12, 2025 20:02
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Yeah I think Mook was like that until the reveal that she is pro-violence and basically terrible for Gaitok in every way. Interesting that during most the season, Gaitok’s plot was seen by many as the least interesting and least important, and yet in the end his is the one that is generating the most discussion. I thought his arc was executed very well.
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Apr 12, 2025 20:07
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live with fruit posted:Her thoughts are specifically independent from Gaitok's. yeah i just mean she didn't have any depth. She was just there to reward gaitok for violence and punish him for non-violence. Her reappraisial of Gaitok from the biggest loser in the resort who she has a soft spot for to boyfriend material doesn't feel believable at all, and only happens because we need Gaitok to have a reason to cap a motherfucker. Unless we're supposed to think she's just REALLY into violence
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Apr 12, 2025 20:16
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They had no chemistry, and I dunno if that's on the actors or intentional.
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Apr 12, 2025 20:26
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Gaitok was playing the white lotus slightly goofy satirical tone and Mook was played completely straight, which made them hard to buy as a couple. If Mook was sillier or more flawed it would make the pairing more believable
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Apr 12, 2025 20:30
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Open Source Idiom posted:They had no chemistry, and I dunno if that's on the actors or intentional. I think it was 100% intentional. Mook is betraying his beliefs for a relationship that is doomed.
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Apr 12, 2025 21:22
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dodgeblan posted:yeah i just mean she didn't have any depth. She was just there to reward gaitok for violence and punish him for non-violence. Her reappraisial of Gaitok from the biggest loser in the resort who she has a soft spot for to boyfriend material doesn't feel believable at all, and only happens because we need Gaitok to have a reason to cap a motherfucker. She’s not into violence, she’s into ambition. And from the point of view of everyone except the audience and Gaitok himself, he’s the hero who took out a mass shooter.
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Apr 12, 2025 21:38
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live with fruit posted:She’s not into violence, she’s into ambition. And from the point of view of everyone except the audience and Gaitok himself, he’s the hero who took out a mass shooter. oh yeah that's right, i forgot he's a hero now.
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Apr 12, 2025 21:51
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I would kill for Mook. You would too.
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Apr 12, 2025 23:13
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Yeah Blackpink lady isn’t the most interesting character, but she’s not some harpy telling Gaitok it’s hot to do murders. She’s pretty obviously trying to encourage him to have confidence and advance his career, which makes sense given these characters are born on a rural island that just got a massive influx of tourism bucks during their lifetimes assuming the resort is in fact on Ko Samui, with her clearly trying to rise up while he is just the fun gate cop. I think she is too detached or naive to consider that he might actually have to shoot someone. She thinks it is cool their rich bosses are putting more responsibility on him. She truly likes him but wants more in life than being lady-in-waiting and clown-at-arms to these rich fucks. Then he has to shoot someone and like what would happen in real life, he is a hero who capped a deranged, drunk shooter to everyone, and is probably not confident enough to tell Lisa he’s upset even if he is, even if she might actually listen. idkacat fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Apr 12, 2025 |
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Apr 12, 2025 23:21
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idkacat posted:I’m pretty sure Blackpink is the biggest kpop girl group of any of them, ever. And Mook specifically was the first non-Korean their agency ever signed. The American audience for K-Pop is very different from the American audience for HBO adult dramas.
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Apr 12, 2025 23:40
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuT-0kyD5qM
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Apr 13, 2025 00:47
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During the season, playing "Is Mook really into him?" was the most frustrating game.
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Apr 13, 2025 02:06
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Mook subscribes to the growth mindset Nothing but going all the way up 📈 if you wanna be my man
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Apr 13, 2025 02:16
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She will demand he kill more and more people each year until he can't keep up with it anymore and goes crazy.
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Apr 13, 2025 03:53
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I’m still watching Coachella rn but I can tell by the thumbnail and title that this video owns, Armond would have loved Black MIDI/Geordie Greep
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Apr 13, 2025 04:43
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I dunno, I think ambition's admirable too, but killing someone is more, "I'm so sorry you were put in that position! Are you okay?" Mook seemed to admire the power in violence.
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Apr 13, 2025 04:51
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I support Mook's efforts to raise pop militancy. Gaitok should be celebrated by staff for waxing a guest. "Viva la Revolution" - Comrade Pam, probably.
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Apr 13, 2025 13:13
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Leon Sumbitches posted:Wait. Mook is an international pop star? lol goons
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Apr 13, 2025 17:09
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Leon Sumbitches posted:Wait. Mook is an international pop star? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Xl0f5TZBeY&t=54s
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Apr 13, 2025 18:46
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I thought Mook was just an employee at the resort. There's a lot I missed on my first watch I guess.
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Apr 13, 2025 18:58
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tristeham posted:lol goons I'm a 40 year old man without children, why would I be aware of kpop more than a vague concept of something and the initials BTS?
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Apr 13, 2025 19:10
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