GW Specialist Games: it'll be a little annoying to track until you get used to it

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > GW Specialist Games: it'll be a little annoying to track until you get used to it

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Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

I stand by everything I said about BB except the pushfit thing

# ¿ Dec 13, 2022 02:22

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 15:06

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Flea Bargain posted:

I think it's significantly more than that right? My understanding was that the rules changed a lot in 2016, then a bit more in 2020.

other way around. 2016 was only slightly different from the LRB version of the rules from about 2006ish, which would be the fourth or fifth edition of the game depending on how you count. most of the differences between LRB and 2016 are changes to specific models or teams rather than core rule changes.

2020 involved more significant changes that come up every single game. particularly to passing, rerolls, characters besides players on the pitch, star players, injuries, and leveling up your characters.

# ¿ Jan 7, 2023 13:07

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Vulpes Vulpes posted:

Red-Handed Operataz are at 4/10

rules rules rules. stealthy orks that still wear flashy body paint, just on a body part that they can easily cover up, that's a cool idea

# ¿ Jan 10, 2023 04:27

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Paranoid Dude posted:

Secret bonus question: why tf hasn't GW revived Mordheim or BFG? Both seem like they'd be goldmines in this era of beloved skirmish games.

Beffer posted:

Mordheim seems to be having an online moment as I'm seeing more and more stuff popping up. It seems like an obvious choice for a reboot, as GW could go the KT route selling big boxes with a few minis and lots of terrain for megabucks. But it's all just speculation at this point.

what would be the functional difference between a new mordheim and warcry?

BFG seems to me it'd be like AT or AI only even more niche, and those are pretty niche games to begin with.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2023 03:42

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Paranoid Dude posted:

Mordheim is much more grounded than Warcry. I like Warcry, but Warcry campaigns don't function the same way as Mordheim does. I see what you're saying, but the game would be much more comparable to fantasy Necromunda than Warcry.

I think BFG would have a much better time than AT because AT is just a humans vs humans snoozefest. Listbuilding is fun and the gameplay is shockingly deep, but AT lacks the panache and the flair of BFG's wide range of differing ship types.

i guess that was a bad way to phrase that question, since i get that the difference is ongoing managed campaigns. mordheim just has the big obstacles that it was also a human vs human snoozefest (unless you broke out a bunch of black library teams that didn't really have a good reason to be in mordheim) and so badly balanced that it barely worked (a problem exacerbated by the presence of non-human teams), on top of the already existing management nightmare that is necromunda. there wouldn't be a lot of difference between warcry and what GW would sell for a hypothetical new mordheim, except that they'd probably have the same problem that necromunda does: people would constantly want new stuff for their old gangs rather than having the freedom to do something that isn't tied to those first half-dozen or so concepts, which both limits what can be done and turns the game into a long-tail stock nightmare.

i could see a new BFG i guess. KT, AT, and (for all its faults) Underworlds are proof that GW can make a game that feels like it was designed this century. (AI too but they just cribbed WOW/XW while making it worse.) they'd need to do something about the fact that people are going to want to play as space marines but space marines are totally lacking in an interesting visual or mechanical identity, and they're going to have to figure out some mechanical identities for factions that aren't "gently caress the movement rules lol" or suicide bombers: the faction. i strongly suspect one of the main reasons that AT is all humans versus humans is because of the difficulty of finding design space for new factions, and a BFG that's just imp navy versus chaos would be pretty niche.

Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 09:06 on Mar 20, 2023

# ¿ Mar 20, 2023 08:53

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

poo poo, i posted in the last thread that i didn't love that newcromunda is now a game where you can start with jetbikes with twin-linked plasma guns and people yelled at me, lol

Thirsty Dog posted:

I think the Imperial fleet is the Space Marines of BFG. They look awesome and are ubiquitous in the fluff. The actual Space Marines don't have the same draw, which isn't a problem that needs solving.

the problem is how bad every fleet after the initial two sucked. you could say it was a problem that started with armada but the rot was already setting in with orks, which were boring and one-dimensional, and eldar, who just weren't even playing the same game. space marines were boring box kites, necrons broke the game open, tyranids didn't even loving work. it was a mess of ugly models and bad rules, because there wasn't enough visual or game design space to go very far past dreadnaughts and pre-dreadnaughts in space. it's the flip side of boring human on human fights.

Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Mar 20, 2023

# ¿ Mar 20, 2023 21:06

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Squibsy posted:

I hate that about Newcromunda too, I just found your framing of Mordheim as a human v human snoozefest to be kind of bizarre. But there is plenty to criticise Mordheim for even so, and you're absolutely right that a lot of the subsequent factions just threw balance out of the window.

mordheim was simultaneously a humans vs humans snoozefest and a broken melange of crap, even in the base book. most of the factions are basic humans, who are differentiated by slightly different weapon and skill access. it's a game that wants you to care very much about the difference between marienbergers and reiklanders, or the difference between three different crazed cults.

also in that same game are skaven and undead, who just break the game wide open. skaven wreck the game by going wide and taking slings or DW, and undead break the game by being a newcromunda elite/chaff team in a game where everyone else is all chaff. this wasn't an expansion problem, it was there basically day 1.

these are not insurmountable problems. you can embrace the goofiness and make a game that doesn't really care about balance and this needs to be carefully refereed or rely on "honorable play" house rules, like newcromunda or mordheim with all the weird citadel journal crap, or nerf/ban the wacky teams (either outright or with soft social pressure to discourage people from taking them) and make a straitlaced human vs occasionally furry human snoozefest, like most online fan mordheim updates.

GW can make a game where the design space is limited but it's still fun. I would not have believed it five years ago but KT is an tiny miracle. it wants me to care very much about the difference between two different kinds of breach-and-clear humans armed with carapace armor and shotguns, while simultaneously still working when space marines and demons show up. there are like five (arguably more) gangs that are just a squad of imperial guard guys and each of them is visually and mechanically distinct! that's wild! i did not believe it when people came out of the gate screencapping rules where distances are measured in � and 🔺but they somehow managed it.

but even that game fundamentally stops hanging together when the 5-0 player gets a bunch of advantages over the 0-5 player above and beyond just being better at wargames. not just that but the nature of campaigns means people want more poo poo for their existing team, not new teams to try. i don't think GW is on track to solve any of these problems, looking at newcromunda and blood bowl. i would be skeptical that mordzwei would have any good solutions!

Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Mar 21, 2023

# ¿ Mar 21, 2023 00:53

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

moths posted:

All of history is a human on human snoozefest

AT is the human on human snoozefest that started that and it's a fun game, and one of the games i mentioned felt like it came from this century. it just has a very limited design space and i get how that would limit its appeal. a lot of people are into GW games because they are weirder and wider than relatively buttoned-down, more-symmetrical historical wargames

# ¿ Mar 21, 2023 03:58

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Peyote Panda posted:

I think that was an issue in general playtesting at GW at that the time. During roughly the same era GW had to update the fouling rules in Blood Bowl explicitly because they hadn't used fouling very often when they were playing in-studio by informal gentlemens' agreement but in practice players used fouls as frequently as possible and it gave the teams with higher average Strength/Toughness the advantage in campaigns because teams with more fragile players ended up with so many more wounded players.

i'm willing to cut them a huge amount of slack on this because you're talking about the LRB era, which was ahead of its time. taking in public feedback and using it to iterate on the game without just repeating the fans' houserules back to them in 2001 was absolutely wild. blood bowl was and is jank stacked on top of jank but the LRB, rules committee, and the fact that they kept it going for years was incredible

# ¿ Mar 21, 2023 16:12

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

EdsTeioh posted:

Ah yeah, the poisonous legacy of Privateer Press strikes again.

privateer press didn't invent the idea of playing to win in wargames, and GW's narrative games still fall apart when someone randomly blunders into a heavily optimal or suboptimal strategy without even trying very hard to win.

that basic assumption that everyone is trying their best to win (within the bounds of basic courtesy) is pretty common to every current GW game except necromunda, for one

# ¿ Mar 22, 2023 19:04

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

EdsTeioh posted:

No they didn't, but they absolutely based their company around that mindset and pushed it hard. Even GW got caught up in that dumb poo poo (remember 'ArdBoys?). There's also a big difference between "playing to win" and "winning at all costs."

it's just baffling to blame privateer press for a problem in this edition of necromunda that was also a problem in the previous edition of necromunda, as well as gorkamorka, mordheim, and multiple intervening editions of blood bowl.

the problem with these games is not a moral defect in the hearts of the players. the problem with these games is that the player who goes 5-0 gets a stronger team than the one who goes 0-5, above and beyond whatever differences in skill or luck those players might have. even if every gang were perfectly balanced at league start and every option were equally well-balanced (and holy poo poo they are not), this would still cause problems.

# ¿ Mar 22, 2023 19:32

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Serperoth posted:

Not familiar with the games, but sounds like the easiest fix would be giving more rewards to the losers than the winners, a built-in catch-up mechanic

while i agree with this in the abstract, you'd have to fundamentally rethink what the rewards are, since they are conceptually the proceeds of your crimes/match victory, and the setbacks largely come in the form of your dudes dying from their injuries

thebardyspoon posted:

I think adjusting stuff for the losers is explicitly part of the rules of Necromunda (as in, they say you should do it, they might not do a great job of telling someone how to do it, which is an issue), the arbitrator is supposed to be a thing, a player who either isn't playing or everyone trusts to run things properly if they are playing. They're supposed to adjust stuff so that people who are consistently losing are still able to participate and have some sort of chance so they can still have fun.

ya. the ways GW fails to do this well could fill multiple effortposts though

# ¿ Mar 22, 2023 21:49

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

moths posted:

Adam, try this fruit - I found it over in the tree of PAGE FIVE, BITCH! PLAY LIKE YOU'VE GOT A PAIR! BRASS BALLS!

i'm glad i don't play any games full of cringeworthy poo poo

# ¿ Mar 23, 2023 06:35

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

moths posted:

To be fair, nobody plays Warmachine.

the privateer press tangent came in the middle of a discussion about mordheim

# ¿ Mar 23, 2023 06:58

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Covermeinsunshine posted:

The gently caress are you people talking about privateer press garbage when there is new underworlds

it hadn't been announced yet!

i am enjoying the continuing move towards making chaos into a bunch of inexplicable weirdoes

# ¿ Mar 23, 2023 09:41

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Dull Fork posted:

Now see thats neat!

But these models look like they were mostly taken from fantasy, and not updated or changed to represent that difference.

the oldhammer space beastmen were like that too though. some of them were just fantasy designs used straight, since there were only a couple 40K-specific beastmen (although they were easy to kitbash).

the idea at the time is that beastmen are all fringer abhumans that are barely tolerated and may or may not actually be chaos mutations. outside of their leaders (the dude on the right there is based on an actual model with a plasma pistol, chainsword, and cuirass) they have primitive weapons because they're chaos cultists or press-ganged imperial cannon fodder.

this isn't even the first nostalgia-bait 40k beastman. they did one for newcromunda, too, more directly based on one of the oldhammer models (pictured in that link).

# ¿ Mar 23, 2023 22:30

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Hihohe posted:

Its not nostalgia to like them either
Space goatmen are just rad

oh def! weird space goatman chaos barbarians are just as rad today as they were in 1987. I just felt like the history elevates that too

# ¿ Mar 24, 2023 00:00

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Hihohe posted:

So if they do release Epic would it more just be an expansion to the Adeptus Titanicus ruleset, so you can bring tanks and other weapon batteries?

Id be down especially if they add orks and stuff.
Please
Stop pidgeonholing youself with the horus heresy period, GW.
People want alien mechs. Please.

there were aliens in the year 30K too. it would take little or no retconning to bring in orks or eldar (possibly with aesthetics far out of keeping with their 40K looks; exodite megafauna?), the oldhammer squat epic stuff is most famous for vehicles bigger than knights and sits in a canon grey area, and they could always just make up new aliens that the imperium exterminated.

the biggest problem with epic imo is that it's much harder and fiddlier to kitbash and personalize the troops and non-superheavy vehicles and monsters. that problem doesn't apply to titans or SH stuff, but AT already exists!

chin up everything sucks posted:

The Imperials ships are mostly newer designs, and by newer I mean only 4-6k years old. There is one Grand Crusade era ship the Imperials can take, and it explicitly has a bad reputation because so many of that class had joined traitor fleets

fwiw this is a BFG thing that has been almost entirely ignored in HH and 40k since then. the cowcatcher ram prows are too iconic. even BFG kinda gave up on it, with things like Rogue Trader mixed fleets

Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Mar 25, 2023

# ¿ Mar 24, 2023 23:58

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

berzerkmonkey posted:

Not that it matters, because GW can easily rewrite the lore like they did with Titan classes.

Also, always loved how all the trader ships were named things like "Murder class" as if that wasn't a clear warning sign...

imperial ship classes that don't show up in chaos fleets include Tyrant, Dictator, Overlord, Dominator, Firestorm, and Armageddon

the imperium are bad guys OP

Virtual Russian posted:

Except then why not just make it the 5th edition of Epic 40K? Like the whole appeal of the HH from a business perspective is limiting the number of unique products that are required to offer up a complete game. If you are adding in Orks and Eldar to the initial release then you talked yourself into releasing Epic: Armageddon (4th ed) as it was 20 years ago, which we all know didn't work. I love that game, it was a big improvement over 3rd, it is my favourite by a long shot, but it did kind of fail. Epic needs to be either a flagship game, or a game in a box, half-measures don't seem to work well.

the point is that you could add ork or eldar or [newalien] titan- or knight-sized models, which would sit nicely next to the existing imperial ones. i genuinely don't know how well AT sells, to justify options that split the playerbase into wanting separate models, but aliens would not necessarily require a whole 5mm infantry army to support them. i also think it'd be informed by the success/failure - again, idk! - of AI, which is sold similarly but does have multiple factions with different models

# ¿ Mar 25, 2023 07:23

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Grumio posted:

Come on down to Traitor Joe's!

organic free-trade skulls

# ¿ Mar 25, 2023 19:09

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Kinda. They were first actually described as Necrons in White Dwarf, and everyone assumed that it was a GM tie-in. However, GM just had a sterile desert world with a mysterious pyramid built by ancient aliens, and left the rest to your imagination.

(Fun fact: that issue also premiered the same Eldar Falcon model that GW still sells!)

I think Angelis/Gorkamorka was specifically mentioned as a Necron Tomb World somewhere but that was way later. It might have even been after the big Necron backstory revamp.

Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Mar 26, 2023

# ¿ Mar 26, 2023 14:03

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

H.P. Hovercraft posted:

from one of the gorkamorka books, which released a few months before the necrons came out

the muties are admech, the other cyberskull 40k faction

# ¿ Mar 28, 2023 00:24

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

yeah the muties and diggas are both remnants of an admech mission that was on the planet when the orks crashlanded. the diggas are a bunch of confused and starved laborers who were under the pyramid runs when the orks crashed, and remain safe from the orks in the ruins because there's Something Terrifying haunting the place. the muties were the admech mission caught on the surface, and now they're a bunch of grotesquely mutated desert scavengers that ride equally-mutated beasts of burden that nonetheless still think they're the noble inheritors of... wherever it was they came from. but, unlike the diggas, they still have a whole armory of somewhat-functional admech weaponry.

the diggas are kinda boring since they're really just T3 orks that are subject to the pinning rules. ork weeaboos is a funny idea but it's very boring in practice. they have mostly the same rules, same vehicles, same weapons, etc. except for some different rules for the mining and repair phases between matches. they can dig up archeotech equipment but it's just as likely a bomb about to go off in their face, and you don't know until the middle of a fight.

the muties are a little more interesting. they're all mounted and a mix of star trek jokes (their home is a v'ger joke) and lawrence of arabia references. they're probably why the current 40K admech army is full of fusiliers and arquebusiers and jezails, since the muties are pretty much the first admech army list that isn't just imperial guard with cybernetics and techmarines.

War and Pieces posted:

don't say the d word

people can go look in the last thread if they want that discussion again

# ¿ Mar 28, 2023 23:19

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

NC Wyeth Death Cult posted:

The book series focused on the Horus Heresy is winding down and the scale of it is huge with several very-Epic moments like Angron facing off against a Capitol Imperialis. If they were going to do a tie in at 6mm all bets would have said it would be now-ish.

in fairness, they're also doing a huge Armageddon-style slugfest story event in 40k and the accompanying rule set is for zone mortalis combat patrols

# ¿ Mar 30, 2023 01:07

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Squibsy posted:

Those are really lovely. I have a soft spot for Deathwatch, sadly I only had smolmarine stuff

the only intercession member that's annoying to do with original-style marines is the gunner and you can prob bash something

# ¿ Apr 1, 2023 09:10

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Vulpes Vulpes posted:

Doing some kitbashing today for my Rogue Trader KT-

this absolutely rules but it should take him an extra AP to go through a doorway

# ¿ Apr 4, 2023 23:52

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Professor Shark posted:

I keep losing at Kill Team to my blood thirsty students. I�m thinking about trying a Bolter Sarg because I�m losing a chunk of ho as I rush into CC

i'm not gonna pretend to be a kill team expert but i do have this guide to using a marine melee sgt in intercession or phobos

don't get too aggro with your sgt. if you can be patient and aim to do something like double-charge on TP3 you'll get a lot more done than taking a risky approach against their full health team

# ¿ Apr 5, 2023 01:03

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Southern Heel posted:

So I've heard about NetEpic approximately every single time someone comes to talk about fantastic GW-origin wargames, but I don't have anyone to play it nearby unless I learn the rules and fork out for two armies. Is there a video battle report anywhere which isn't 1.5hrs long or filmed on a potato which can run me through the game system while illustrating why it's so dominant?

i don't think it's worth the effort. its reputation has been inflated by its scarcity. netepic really feels like a 1989 wargame with some of the rough edges sanded off, because it is

Flea Bargain posted:

Beating dwarves is all about forcing them to play the game they're not good at. There's a concept from Magic The Gathering called "Who's the beatdown" and at it's core it's about recognising your role in the game, and playing accordingly. Normally Orcs are the bashier team in the matchup, but can't necessarily outbash dwarves, so you should be taking the role of the team that wants to avoid trading blows. As with any game, you can take fights that are favourable for you, but don't let them swamp you into a bash fest, as that is quite difficult for you to win, even with four Big'uns. Dwarves are very slow (mv4 on their linedwarves) and you can abuse that. They need to be moving forward every turn to get their cage to the touchdown line.
What your ideal gameplan on defense looks like is to start centralised and use a column defense (google it if you're not familiar) of a big'un with an blitzer or lineman behind, one square away from your opponent. Your goal is to keep them to one blitz a turn and no good hits, ideally on your big'uns at the front of your columns. You can keep giving up ground slowly, but keep your pieces in front of theirs without basing them. If they commit and move all their pieces in, you get the first hit and can force them into bad fights. They need to commit 5 pieces to holding the ball and caging so you outnumber them hugely, so use that.
Eventually they'll be forced to pick a side to move down to advance their pieces, and you can use your numbers advantage to trap them against the sidelines by stopping them moving forward and a few pieces to stop them moving back centrally. The further you can keep them back, the sooner they will have to try and make a break for it with a runner holding the ball. They might even choose to not score rather than risk the turnover and handoff score on your part.

On offense, it's also about abusing their slow movement. They are slow, so need to cover all the angles. This means that if you cage up near their line, you can shuffle your cage left and right over and over, while trying to blitz a hole through that they need to increasingly raggedly cover. Eventually you can stretch them thin enough to create a hole to blitz through and establish a cage on the other side, or to isolate a small number on one side of the pitch and screen your touchdown attempt. Be patient with this, you can shuffle back and forth for quite a while, you only need 3 or even 2 turns to score from the line of scrimmage.

Happy to answer any questions. Dwarves appear bullshit, and are if you let them dictate the game, but have some glaring weaknesses that you can exploit, especially against less experienced coaches.

Tldr: dwarves slow, stand one square away on defense, stretch them on offense, don't play their game

some addition to this:

depending on your team development and luck, you might actually be the beatdown. dwarfs rely heavily on their superior access to block and guard to get anything done. you can have up to four players with guard and four players with str 4 to start with, so if you have a few more skills or they start to lose a player or two to bad luck, you can quickly find yourself as the comparable or superior bashing team. this is a rough matchup when all other things are equal, but very often in BB all other things are not equal.

Vulpes Vulpes posted:

Rogue Trader KT kitbashing continues-
Death Cult Executioner:

hey you didn't get enough compliments for this, because it is outfuckingstanding

Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 07:09 on Apr 9, 2023

# ¿ Apr 9, 2023 06:59

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Blackmage Yapo posted:

Mapgoons run a blood bowl league for BB2, new one should be starting up shortly. https://discord.gg/cmxz5HeU

As far as I can tell there are still no real leagues for BB3 because cyanide released a beta.

speaking of which, mapgoons are starting up a new season of their league pretty soon, now's the time to jump on board

TheDiceMustRoll posted:

"Playing like an 80's game" is not in any way shape or form a negative and there's a reason why Blood Bowl hasn't been replaced by all of these godawful "I fixed it!" clones that nobody likes or plays

specifically, netepic feels like someone jury-rigged rules for pre-dreadnought naval wargaming to be a mass combined arms wargame, but the operative unit in the game is not the equivalent of a ship, but rather a single weapon battery. as a result, it involves buckets of low-consequence dice, fiddling with your troop composition all the way down to the squad level, and rules for specific squad interaction that worry about things like how many squad stands are touching the same stand. it's also very difficult to look at an opposing roster and understand what it does well and the relative threat it poses. this is not because this information is concealed by the fog of war, but it is requires calculating how many hits an army can generate and under what circumstances. too much of the game is invested in calculating and managing and optimizing squad/platoon-level tactics when the meat of the game is maneuvering whole armies.

blood bowl has problems too but that's a separate discussion.

# ¿ Apr 10, 2023 00:25

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

TheDiceMustRoll posted:

I agree, the lack of a good Vampire counts team is quite frustrating and the nurgle team needs more speed.

blood bowl is also way too slow for how much randomness it involves, it's very easy to end up in a position where you can't really do anything any more but are expected to let yourself be farmed with good grace, it's a bookkeeping mess, there are many trap options left in the game because they've always been there, the NFL parody framing leads people to expect it to resemble football and it doesn't, team rating is disconnected from team quality pretty badly, etc.

it has problems. some of them are just going to inherently limit its appeal, because they're inextricable from the things people like about blood bowl, but it's certainly a product of its time.

# ¿ Apr 10, 2023 19:16

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

TheDiceMustRoll posted:

All of those are good things though

nah

# ¿ Apr 11, 2023 11:07

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

TheDiceMustRoll posted:

it is GOOD to have punishment mechanics for rage quitters

This isn't the problem. This problem with Blood Bowl is that the game can (and often does) get into a state where you no longer have any input on what's happening but still need to play it out because the benefits to your opponent for beating on a helpless opponent are so grossly large. In any other game, quitting at that point would just be conceding, not "rage quitting".

I am glad that the joke teams are properly labeled as joke teams now though.

Anyway the rest of your post is "people still play it, therefore it has no problems" and that's not really worth addressing.

# ¿ Apr 11, 2023 20:05

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

fallingdownjoe posted:

I don�t know if you�ve tried it, but tournament-style blood bowl normally uses resurrection rules, where you build your team and start afresh each game, with any injuries wiped away. Whilst I do like the development side of the game, I really love the challenges presented by tournaments, where even one bad game doesn�t matter because the next one is a fresh new fight.

I've played a couple tournaments at cons and such, but I've never lived anywhere running tournaments regularly. It seems interesting, and it seems like BB2020 has better support for it, although I've never tried it personally.

# ¿ Apr 11, 2023 22:47

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Virtual Russian posted:

If you have a good group I'd recommend having two game masters, let each play, and do any back-end stuff as open-book as possible so everything stays above board. Obviously each game master can never rule on their own games, if they play each other someone else must be there to help with any disputes. This system works quite well with a good group that isn't super competitive and wants to have a fun campaign. This system totally falls apart with people that want to win at all costs.

It also falls apart when the thing someone does that they think is cool turns out to be the OP choice, or when someone falls far behind because the thing they think is cool is a trap option. Then you're relying on your GMs to rewrite the game on the fly, or peer pressure to push the player off of the problematic choices, and both can easily lead to bad blood.

# ¿ Apr 13, 2023 04:02

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

both versions of netepic are only reasonable for people who own an existing collection or a 3d printer tbh

# ¿ Apr 14, 2023 09:11

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Virtual Russian posted:

They aren't free, but unless you are buying vintage blisters on Ebay you won't be paying close to what you would to buy into 40k.

i don't consider 40K reasonable at all

a small collection of epic miniatures is going to be a one-trick regardless of what faction it is unfortunately. it's not a game that lends itself to breaking down more than one way at low-mid points levels

# ¿ Apr 14, 2023 10:06

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

Hedningen posted:

That�s a bit more hostile of a response than I expected, but broadly: it�s a game that thrives on getting a cohesive group together who are willing to play a season�s worth of games, and a lot of the enjoyment can come from having a good group of people. Obviously a lovely group can make every game bad, but having a mismatched group or getting zero help when you�re dropped in the deep end in a Blood Bowl league will have a greater effect on the enjoyment people get out of it than in one-off games.

running a league is what made BB's flaws become crystal clear to me, personally. it was frustrating to see the ways it was making people miserable, and frustrating to need to compensate for the burnout.

# ¿ Apr 14, 2023 20:21