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shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005

bulletsponge13 posted:

Question for the room- where do we draw the line? Who decides what assassination is OK, and which isn't? Which country gets to war crime to the top of the leader board? I'm not saying that no one should face punishment, but at the same time, why is it only our declared "enemies" face judgement or get eyed for justice, when our loving Allies do the same poo poo or worse? I'm being genuine in asking- who decides the line, where it is, and what the repercussions are?

As an aside, I'm so loving over this bullshit of Iran being the boogeyman when he's just a Scooby-Doo Doo villain we made. Call me jaded, because it's hard for me to get wrapped around the axle that Iran supplied dudes EFPs when we did airstrikes on Quakers.

in a more serious response, it's pretty bleak and international relations really is a Hobbesian nightmare hellscape where might makes right and you only enforcably war crimed if you end up losing sovereignty. Don't open pandora's box unless you're gonna win or it's a truly existential struggle where you've got nothing to lose

shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Jan 30, 2023

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facialimpediment
Feb 11, 2005

as the world turns
Philly won the NFC championship in a laugher, so:

https://twitter.com/Nina_Baratti/status/1619840209767763968?t=oin98WgK23sJggV78n9M1w&s=19

https://twitter.com/JohnGonzalez/status/1619851165268852736?t=wdNEmyKLua4RO33FywK3pw&s=19

bulletsponge13
Apr 28, 2010

That Works posted:

Couldn’t say but I remember arguing with a friend when Syria just got started that Assad should have gotten got and I still think that would’ve been better for the world in general if he died right early on.

We should have stepped into Syria and handled it as soon as it got started. Instead, we set an unspoken precedent that chemical weapons are fine to use, even when we are in theater.

I also think we should have done something when Russia invaded Crimea in 2014, because it seemed like all the experts were warning this war was coming.

I guess as I've gotten older, and really started to reconcile my experiences (I'm still writing, that thread ain't dead), I'm dealing with the stereotypical Veteran poo poo- we were supposed to be the good guys, blah blah blah, and it gets smeared over everything.



DS9 chat- I wasn't mature enough to get some of DS9, and it felt like a Bootleg Babylon 5 (which I started watching first). But Sisqo at least appreciated the difference between a threat of violence and the intent of violence. He told them what was going to happen. He gave them a choice in outcome.



shame on an IGA posted:

in a more serious response, it's pretty bleak and international relations really is a Hobbesian nightmare hellscape where might makes right and you only enforcably war crimed if you end up losing sovereignty. Don't open pandora's box unless you're gonna win or it's a truly existential struggle where you've got nothing to lose

That's where I land, and it sucks.

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

The Suffering of the Succotash.

TheWeedNumber posted:

I need to watch this finally to understand because I do not understand the significance of this pic.

ABout 95% of star trek rankings rate "In the Pale Moonlight" as the best episode of Star Trek.

Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011


A.o.D. posted:

ABout 95% of star trek rankings rate "In the Pale Moonlight" as the best episode of Star Trek.

Sisko owns and to this day I am upset that Avery Brooks got blacklisted from Hollywood somehow and we never got a version of First Contact where it's a proper TNG/DS9 crossover.

Just imagine the line "Jean-Luc, blow up the drat ship!" but in his voice.

TheWeedNumber
Apr 20, 2020

bulletsponge13 posted:

We should have stepped into Syria and handled it as soon as it got started. Instead, we set an unspoken precedent that chemical weapons are fine to use, even when we are in theater.

I also think we should have done something when Russia invaded Crimea in 2014, because it seemed like all the experts were warning this war was coming.

I guess as I've gotten older, and really started to reconcile my experiences (I'm still writing, that thread ain't dead), I'm dealing with the stereotypical Veteran poo poo- we were supposed to be the good guys, blah blah blah, and it gets smeared over everything.



DS9 chat- I wasn't mature enough to get some of DS9, and it felt like a Bootleg Babylon 5 (which I started watching first). But Sisqo at least appreciated the difference between a threat of violence and the intent of violence. He told them what was going to happen. He gave them a choice in outcome.

That's where I land, and it sucks.

The crossing of the redline should have led to the nuclear destruction of the airbase the strikes were launched from, IMO. Enforce the taboo. Spin the gently caress out of it PR wise. Donít even use the word weapon at the press conference. Say some poo poo like, ďTo ensure that the illegal chemical weapon stockpile was properly dismantled, we chose to use thermonuclear demolition charges to ensure high-heat incineration of the stockpiled agents. We regret the loss of all personnel at the airbase and our thoughts are with their families.Ē

If Obama did that poo poo he would be a loving gangster. Legacy=covered. Taboo enforced. Drop chems get hit. gently caress it, throw one more wherever Assad was sleeping that day and say he had a canister of VX tucked under his pillow too and we wanted to be sure. International community would have been shook. But dictators wouldnít be gassing no more kids after that one, Iíd bet money on that.

CRUSTY MINGE
Mar 30, 2011

Peggy Hill
Foot Connoisseur
Obama didn't want to be Truman, he had his own thing going with drone strikes.

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004

Odessa Military Academy
Scholam violentis incommodis
Nap Ghost

TheWeedNumber posted:

The crossing of the redline should have led to the nuclear destruction of the airbase the strikes were launched from, IMO.

100000% no thanks.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



CRUSTY MINGE posted:

Obama didn't want to be Truman, he had his own thing going with drone strikes.

So put one on a UAV, General Atomics would have done it for free just to say they did.

lightpole
Jun 4, 2004

shame on an IGA posted:

in a more serious response, it's pretty bleak and international relations really is a Hobbesian nightmare hellscape where might makes right and you only enforcably war crimed if you end up losing sovereignty. Don't open pandora's box unless you're gonna win or it's a truly existential struggle where you've got nothing to lose

History decided by the winners or whatever.

Everything is subjective.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

as a person who never leaves my house i've done pretty well for myself.
Iím going to be bold here in saying that there is no point in the history of nuclear weapons at which they were not used, but at which they should have been used.

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES

Exciting Lemon

bulletsponge13 posted:

Question for the room- where do we draw the line? Who decides what assassination is OK, and which isn't?

Turns out that as always the answer is that the Winners get to decide where that line was.

We're one of the bad guys, and there don't seem to be any good guys. So we just gotta individually make the world as full of love and positivity as we can on our own scale.

TheWeedNumber
Apr 20, 2020

mlmp08 posted:

100000% no thanks.

Could you expand upon your point?

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004

Odessa Military Academy
Scholam violentis incommodis
Nap Ghost

TheWeedNumber posted:

Could you expand upon your point?

Dropping a nuke over Syriaís actions would have tremendous consequences and set a terrible precedent. The ramifications among allies and partners, alone, would be awful.

TheWeedNumber
Apr 20, 2020

mlmp08 posted:

Dropping a nuke over Syriaís actions would have tremendous consequences and set a terrible precedent. The ramifications among allies and partners, alone, would be awful.

That seems to outweigh my intent to set a new precedent of ďWMD usage begets WMD retaliationĒ with that random shitpost. Letís pretend I didnít say nuke em. Would a normal strike be warranted?

Stravag
Jun 7, 2009

TheWeedNumber posted:

I can’t remember if B5 or Farscape was the one with Australians in space.

Far scape. With the dude who took over sg1

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004

Odessa Military Academy
Scholam violentis incommodis
Nap Ghost

TheWeedNumber posted:

Would a normal strike be warranted?

Normal like launching a strike with conventional weapons aimed at chemical weapons facilities and those who plan their usage?

TheWeedNumber
Apr 20, 2020

mlmp08 posted:

Normal like launching a strike with conventional weapons aimed at chemical weapons facilities and those who plan their usage?

Yep. Ideally only wreck the area with the chems and try to avoid killing Russians on the base. I believe the Durandal is the type of bomb you use to crater a runway. Drop the stockpile, drop the flight line, render the base inoperable. Destroy any other known chemical weapon stockpiles.

Bonus objectives: kill the officers who ordered the strike in a separate strike. The unwritten rule of not killing world leaders is still on the table at this point, otherwise Iíd say kill Assad at all costs.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

Kazinsal posted:

Sisko owns and to this day I am upset that Avery Brooks got blacklisted from Hollywood somehow and we never got a version of First Contact where it's a proper TNG/DS9 crossover.

Just imagine the line "Jean-Luc, blow up the drat ship!" but in his voice.

DS9 is my all time favorite show, but I donít believe Brooks got blacklisted at all. Itís my impression he prefers to be a stage actor and isnít interested in further Star Trek projects. He appeared in the documentary What We Left Behind (highly recommended) but didnít seem to have any animosity or tension.

I think Next Generation got movies as it was a bigger series and was expected to draw a bigger crowd. Iím not bummed we didnít get a DS9 movie as it ended so strongly Iíd be worried about where theyíd go next, and while if they had a DS9 movie as good as First Contact yes that would own but an Insurrection or Nemesis would have been a sour note. Considering the mess that is Picard because of the poor present day management of the brand Iím fine with DS9 characters not being brought back to be killed off in a barely written story.

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004

Odessa Military Academy
Scholam violentis incommodis
Nap Ghost

TheWeedNumber posted:

Yep. Ideally only wreck the area with the chems and try to avoid killing Russians on the base. I believe the Durandal is the type of bomb you use to crater a runway. Drop the stockpile, drop the flight line, render the base inoperable. Destroy any other known chemical weapon stockpiles.

Thatís a pretty close description of what did happen when the US, France, and UK retaliated after Syriaís 2018 chemical weapon usage.

Syria fixed the base, but what are you gonna do?

Related: OCPW recently released their independent reporting laying blame on that 2018 chem attack that killed 43 people on the government of Syria.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

as a person who never leaves my house i've done pretty well for myself.
Even if we allowed for the sake of argument that opening the can on some sunshine didnít directly kill any innocent people and didnít make the use of nuclear weapons in the future any more likely, the worldwide panic would be quite destructive.

Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011


Hyrax Attack! posted:

DS9 is my all time favorite show, but I donít believe Brooks got blacklisted at all. Itís my impression he prefers to be a stage actor and isnít interested in further Star Trek projects. He appeared in the documentary What We Left Behind (highly recommended) but didnít seem to have any animosity or tension.

I think Next Generation got movies as it was a bigger series and was expected to draw a bigger crowd. Iím not bummed we didnít get a DS9 movie as it ended so strongly Iíd be worried about where theyíd go next, and while if they had a DS9 movie as good as First Contact yes that would own but an Insurrection or Nemesis would have been a sour note. Considering the mess that is Picard because of the poor present day management of the brand Iím fine with DS9 characters not being brought back to be killed off in a barely written story.

Cirroc Lofton said a couple years ago that Brooks would come back to the screen if he was allowed to but for mysterious reasons no agent will take him. If that's not a blacklisting I don't know what is.

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY
RE: what just happened in Iran, are there any good summaries of What We Know So Far in terms of what exploded and how the exploding happened? I've been doing family stuff all weekend so I haven't had time to check my usual sources.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

Kazinsal posted:

Cirroc Lofton said a couple years ago that Brooks would come back to the screen if he was allowed to but for mysterious reasons no agent will take him. If that's not a blacklisting I don't know what is.

Ah dang didnít know that.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

TheWeedNumber posted:

I can’t remember if B5 or Farscape was the one with Australians in space.

That was Cleopatra 2525.

pantslesswithwolves
Oct 27, 2008

Ba-dam ba-DUMMMMMM


A GREAT steering wheel that doesnít fly off when youíre driving!

Tiny Timbs
Sep 6, 2008

ďStill love the car thoughĒ

PookBear
Nov 1, 2008
in short, Iran is a land of contrasts

Coasterphreak
May 29, 2007
I like cookies.
Now thatís what I call American build quality

Zamujasa
Oct 27, 2010



Bread Liar
anyone who willingly steps foot into a tesla is an idiot

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

Zamujasa posted:

anyone who willingly steps foot into a tesla is an idiot

Annoyingly the early Tesla's were a LOT of fun to drive, but yeah the build quality and safety is absolutely not worth the risk.

Itchy_Grundle
Feb 22, 2003

It's like the crappy cell phone of cars.

Vahakyla
May 3, 2013

My battleboo just said "yeah, us. Ma'am. We'll be going to war. Not you."

Kesper North posted:

RE: what just happened in Iran, are there any good summaries of What We Know So Far in terms of what exploded and how the exploding happened? I've been doing family stuff all weekend so I haven't had time to check my usual sources.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/warplanes-said-to-strike-convoy-of-iranian-militia-trucks-on-syria-iraq-border/


A series of strikes in Iran and Syria.

quote:

online, January 29, 2023. (Screenshot: Twitter)
Unidentified aircraft struck a convoy of Iranian trucks at the al-Qaim crossing on the Syria-Iraq border, where frequent Iranian military activity has been reported, Syrian and other Arab media said Sunday night.

The Saudi-funded al-Arabiya network, citing unidentified sources, said 25 trucks had crossed the border from Iraq to Syria before the strike. According to Syriaís Sham FM radio station and other local media reports, six refrigerator trucks were hit.

Al-Arabiya said the unidentified aircraft first fired a warning shot to allow the truck drivers to leave before bombing them. The network said the al-Qaim crossing is controlled, practically speaking, by Iranian militias.


Times of Israel isn't a rag, it's a decent newspaper. However, there's still scant information. Seems to be "some aircraft" that is the level of certainty we can be at. Iran is completely silent on it, but that also makes sense. They have very little interest in admitting that anyone could do this to them.


Strafing ground next to trucks and convoys to allow escape before attacking convoys themselves is a common MO of, well, you know what Air Force.



This is likely the same series of strikes as the ones in Iran, based on timing.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/iran-warns-israel-not-to-play-with-fire-after-drone-attack-on-defense-facility/

quote:

"Iran on Monday warned Israel ďnot to play with fire,Ē and threatened retaliation over Israelís reported involvement in a weekend drone attack on a key defense facility in the city of Isfahan.

The site hit in Saturdayís strike was reportedly was a weapons production facility for Iranís killer Shahed-136 drones, Channel 12 news reported Sunday. The unsourced report said the attack incorporated high-quality intelligence and technological ability."

Bored As Fuck
Jan 1, 2006
Be prepared
Fun Shoe

pantslesswithwolves posted:



A GREAT steering wheel that doesn’t fly off when you’re driving!

A car that's TOO small. So your mother in law can't fit in it.

Nuclear Tourist
Apr 7, 2005

Zamujasa posted:

anyone who willingly steps foot into a tesla is an idiot

I remember someone on twitter predicting, in the middle of the Musk takeover, that the phrase "owns a Tesla" will be used in future movies and shows about our current time period to imply that someone is a clueless schmuck.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

IF YOU SEE ME SHITTING UP A THREAD ABOUT CRITICALLY ACCLAIMED MMORPG FINAL FANTASY XIV PLEASE REMIND ME THAT I QUIT THE GAME BECAUSE IT COULD NOT HANDLE MY LOFTY CRITICISMS OF VIOLENCE IN MEDIA

AND ALSO TO SHUT THE HELL UP
Latest leak of classified documents to War Thunder: welcome the J-8.

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

TheWeedNumber posted:

So has every other nation I can think of. As someone who would happily crush the Iranian people to a nub if they got in "our" way geopolitically, let's pause for a sec and loving call a spade a spade. Our body count and tally of "heinous poo poo" since the formation of the Union up until the present is off the charts. If we didn't do it ourselves, we worked through our partners and allies to get the poo poo done. We've drained the sea of people in Vietnam, and jumped for joy when the Indonesian genocide occurred way back during the Cold War. We cheered because it was a geopolitical win for us to drop the 3rd largest communist party in the world and a leading voice of the Non-Aligned Movement at the same time. Not only have we drained the sea, but we also trained our partners in Latin America to do it too.

Put up a map of the world. Throw darts at that bitch till you run out of darts. Go dig into their history. I bet the groundskeeper from the cemetery will come knocking in a few hours, tops, to ask you to please put the skeletons back in the grave where they belong.

Every nation has done dirt. Some more than others. We're definitely in the "more" category. We shouldn't be surprised by the pushback and get offended that they pushed back. That's just disingenuous IMO.

That's cool man but I was specifically quoting and responding to a post that said Iran didn't.

TheWeedNumber posted:

The crossing of the redline should have led to the nuclear destruction of the airbase the strikes were launched from, IMO.

:lol: I mistook you for a serious poster, my apologies.

Godholio fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Jan 30, 2023

CRUSTY MINGE
Mar 30, 2011

Peggy Hill
Foot Connoisseur
Memphis PD relieved another cop of duty today in the Tyre Nichols case, a white guy. Relieved of duty, not fired.

https://wreg.com/news/local/tyre-nichols/sixth-officer-in-nichols-confrontation-relieved-of-duty/

Also Memphis Fire axed 3 employees involved.

https://wreg.com/news/local/tyre-nichols/3-memphis-fire-employees-terminated-in-tyre-nichols-investigation/

PookBear
Nov 1, 2008

TheWeedNumber posted:

I canít remember if B5 or Farscape was the one with Australians in space.

Farscape was the australian show if that's what you mean

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Vahakyla
May 3, 2013

My battleboo just said "yeah, us. Ma'am. We'll be going to war. Not you."

TheWeedNumber posted:

The crossing of the redline should have led to the nuclear destruction of the airbase the strikes were launched from, IMO.

Ah yes I am a serious and credible poster myself, too.

:getout:

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