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Tender Bender posted:Yeah like it presents as the bog-standard trope of "character wants to kill another character, then they meet up and through circumstances they become aligned and their past issues become a source of ongoing drama". Probably not an accident that they introduced another character this episode whose beloved family member was killed by Joel and hates him for it, but is able to coexist with him. Yeah, that's another good point, the therapy thing also builds on the expectation that they are setting up an arc for Joel for some personal "redemption" about the people he wrong'd with his action. I think they have done a good job on setting everything up and this COULD (still need to see the full execution of course) be a good showcase of how you actually "subvert audience expectations" in a way that makes sense (and works to the advantage of the story instead of doing that played out plot trope you/me described). The only thing I currently see somewhat critical is down to the TV format, ie the forced break we have after episode 1. Whatever comes next I'm sure would be better served without this interruption and I'm kinda surprised they didn't release the first two episodes together (I at least assume the next ep will have the "big moment").
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Apr 14, 2025 19:07
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Larryb posted:Eh, they’re no Ashley Johnson but I never minded them honestly (also they fake a decent American accent) Kaitlyn Dever.
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Apr 14, 2025 19:22
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Really hope Ellie says gently caress Seattle this season. Wish they hadn't changed the story at all but understand why they did for the show.
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Apr 14, 2025 20:07
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Ellie isn't supposed to be particularly likable. She's an awkward as gently caress teen lesbian who has a blood lust and a death wish. Ramsey is playing her brilliantly, and while her "appearance" isn't the same as Ellie in the game, she's got her mannerisms and her character down. Show continues to be excellent, and the changes to showing Abby early makes total sense. They are right, in the sense that watching is different than playing as someone. If she was to just appear as a character and then offs Joel it would be hard for the audience to get behind her. this approach (storytelling) works better, even if we as game player's get grumpy. It reminds me honestly of wheel of time, where the book readers are getting in their own way of enjoying something new. The problem is not the show, it's You being so precious about one thing you can't seem to understand that adaptation has to be different. I'm glad they get it though, and in both cases, I trust the creatives on both shows doing their jobs. Oh, and the one poster talking about the "tactical realism of her beating up a bigger guy, that was lame," miss the whole thread with the alt right YouTube critical drinker/Mangus posting garbage. Show did a great job showing she's willing to be an idiot to win because of her death wish, and pair that with, but you only one because he pulled the punch.
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Apr 14, 2025 20:19
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It's a problem for the show that they are going to kill off pedro pascal who everyone loves and try to make you care about ellie, who everyone seems to hate now or the girl that clubbed everyone's favorite pedro.
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Apr 14, 2025 20:32
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mcmagic posted:It's a problem for the show that they are going to kill off pedro pascal who everyone loves and try to make you care about ellie, who everyone seems to hate now or the girl that clubbed everyone's favorite pedro.
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Apr 14, 2025 20:43
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mcmagic posted:It's a problem for the show that they are going to kill off pedro pascal who everyone loves and try to make you care about ellie, who everyone seems to hate now or the girl that clubbed everyone's favorite pedro. Yeah and there aren't gonna be any likeable characters except Dina and Tommy. Pretty sure that the general audience is gonna hate this show, especially when Joel gets the club and you're expected to sympathize with Abby. I can't see many people wanting to spend time with the person that kills Pedro.
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Apr 14, 2025 20:51
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mcmagic posted:It's a problem for the show that they are going to kill off pedro pascal who everyone loves and try to make you care about ellie, who everyone seems to hate now or the girl that clubbed everyone's favorite pedro. "Everyone" is a group of always online nerds who in general have been very vocal about yelling at the part 2 since the game came out, compared to the fact that it's basically universally loved by actual "people". (if we look at overall scoring or data). Same will happen with the show. Making Ellie unlikeable doesn't mean hate her, and the Disney facation of hero's having to be likable is one of the biggest problems with media criticism of the last 20+ years. I peronsally love that she's one of the main character and a total poo poo. Most 19 year olds are. It's one of the reasons Last of Us is so good, they're actually making you question your "daddy/little sister/daughter" figure characters are actually monsters from a lot of other perspectives, while not asking you not to love them. The show outright shows it and tells it in the first episode back. Joel stating, "I'm a good person". When objectively, he's a lot of things, but him claiming he's a good person is a very bold statement for him to make.
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Apr 14, 2025 21:02
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Codependent Poster posted:Yeah and there aren't gonna be any likeable characters except Dina and Tommy. A lot of sexism here too. Nobody worried about this with Walter White on breaking bad.
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Apr 14, 2025 21:03
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it is impossible to empathize with abby if she's not swole enough to triangle choke a zombie
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Apr 14, 2025 21:07
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LionArcher posted:A lot of sexism here too. Nobody worried about this with Walter White on breaking bad. I think the issue is that some people (i am one of them) didn't like Bella Ramsey's performance in season 1, so the double whammy of 1. not on board with the actor and 2. character becomes very hard to like as part of the story, is not that appealing. With Walter white, yeah he becomes very hard to sympathise with later on, but there's never any question that the performance is great, so you remain compelled regardless of whether you are rooting for him or not. Plus S1 was kinda hit and miss with every swing it took for me so I'm expecting this to just be a worse version of the story already told well in TLOU2, which I really enjoyed, and I like a lot more than part 1.
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Apr 14, 2025 21:10
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^^^^ Nevermind, you changed your avatar, so I missed that you were the guy in the Witcher thread who was getting worked up about non-white people in your fantasy show.roomtone posted:I think the issue is that some people (i am one of them) didn't like Bella Ramsey's performance in season 1, so the double whammy of 1. not on board with the actor and 2. character becomes very hard to like as part of the story, is not that appealing. With Walter white, yeah he becomes very hard to sympathise with later on, but there's never any question that the performance is great, so you remain compelled regardless of whether you are rooting for him or not. Fortunately an overwhelming number of people who both played the games but also have not played the games love Bella's portrayal of Ellie judging by the strong reception to the entirety of season 1. Literally the only people that get worked up about their portrayal of people hung up on how she looks in the game. Meanwhile, Bella nailed the pun-slinging, sarcastic teen of the first game pretty much perfectly, and they are doing a great job of showing early Pt. II Ellie. So, we don't need to worry about those couple of haters, because they're wrong. Anonymous Zebra fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Apr 14, 2025 |
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Apr 14, 2025 21:15
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I mean Abby did the violent deed, left Ellie and Tommy alive. Ellie and Tommy killed off all of Abby's friends and kept escalating and escalating. A certain point when I was playing the game I was like "you know I wouldn't be mad if Abby killed off Ellie" And you know what sucks, since it's a live action show, I don't think we will get as good as a "scared of heights" face that the game has 
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Apr 14, 2025 21:16
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Caesar Saladin posted:I'm assuming that this is gonna have an episode like the Nick Offerman episode, because that one was so appreciated, and its gonna be the best episode of the season again. On a very special Emmy episode: “Employee of the Month” “dear Joel, I hope this letter finds you well. My master is dead. Jerked himself to death. Please tell his wife you killed him to save him from embarrassment as that is not a dignified way to die in these times. As I have nothing to live for now I will go out the same way. Please take this weed” Alan Smithee fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Apr 14, 2025 |
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Apr 14, 2025 21:23
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the problem isn't that normal people hate Bella, it's that normal people really fuckin love Pedro
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Apr 14, 2025 21:26
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For an unspoiled perspective- I didn’t play the games, went into the first season unspoiled beyond the basic premise of gruff murder dad and precocious teen fight mushroom zombies, and managed to not spoil myself on part 2. But accidentally got spoiled on this one because a friend assumed I had played after last night. Oops! Yeah I am not feeling like I am losing anything by knowing Joel gets got, and more importantly, I definitely didn’t expect him to get unceremoniously facesmashed Oberyn-style probably next week. I think people overestimate how much spoilers impact things though. I knew how Oberyn would end going in. I still loved that fight. I was counting down the weeks. I’m if anything more excited now to see Joel die and the reactions. And similarly in GoT which I’m sorry but I have to compare this to- I know a lot of unspoiled non-book-readers knew exactly what was happening to the overconfident hot protagonist facing off against Big von RapeMurder. I think shocks and spoilers are overrated and it was a good choice to establish this random lady who apparently is going to be a protagonist now, instead of relying on the cheap thrill of WOAOAOAHQHAHAH THIS RANDO JUST BASHED PEDRO
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Apr 14, 2025 21:32
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LionArcher posted:A lot of sexism here too. Nobody worried about this with Walter White on breaking bad. I very early turned on Walter, because Cranston brought a sublime undercurrent of meanness to him that I felt was apparent pretty much right away. But I get what you’re saying. Haven’t played the second game yet but I know all the major story beats. First EO was good, I actually prefer Bella Ramsay’s take on Ellie (based on my experience of the first game) so I don’t hate their performance here, even if I do think it’s a bit weird how much they get to gently caress around in a society that should have no time with troublemakers.
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Apr 14, 2025 21:42
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I actually prefer it when all the characters on a show are unlikable bastards I am disappointed that abby isn't huge (yet?) though DeadFatDuckFat fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Apr 14, 2025 |
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Apr 14, 2025 22:05
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broke: getting mad at kaitlyn devers for being abby, killer of handsome step daddy woke: getting mad at kaitlyn devers for not being swole, jacked, buff, yoked, ripped, huge mclarge
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Apr 14, 2025 22:23
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It's hard to avoid comparisons to the precipitous dropoff in viewers that the Walking Dead got after a beloved character got his skull bashed in but that show was already like three seasons past having anything interesting to say and went on for another five.
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Apr 14, 2025 22:41
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Eau de MacGowan posted:it is impossible to empathize with abby if she's not swole enough to triangle choke a zombie If Kaitlyn can't convincingly swole punch the poo poo out of a stalker while shotgunning the Rat King with her other hand the show is ruined, unwatchable, all involved should be executed obviously.  Anyway, pre-emptively pouring one out for kind hearted dope Owen, who personally ensures both Tommy and Ellie are spared then gets to bleed out for his trouble while his preggo girlfriend gets stabbed in the neck by our fav psycho murder goblin.
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Apr 14, 2025 22:48
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The dog murder will causes articles and tweets
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Apr 14, 2025 22:51
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ZeeBoi posted:The dog murder will causes articles and tweets Hopefully she goes on a No Dog Kill Run besides the mandatory one.
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Apr 14, 2025 22:53
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i already said an extrapolated dog backstory will be the emmy bait episode
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Apr 14, 2025 22:55
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so it always bugged me in the game when ellie kills that one woman in Abby's crew she sees ellie isn't wearing a mask and goes "you're her!" like...did that not occur to you when you were killing joel? I guess the show is heading it off a bit by suggesting they don't believe it's true or possible
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Apr 14, 2025 22:59
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Henchman of Santa posted:It's hard to avoid comparisons to the precipitous dropoff in viewers that the Walking Dead got after a beloved character got his skull bashed in but that show was already like three seasons past having anything interesting to say and went on for another five. This is all based on half-remembered stuff I read ages ago, but I'm pretty sure the Walking Dead is just one example of the reality that your average TV viewer has a pretty simplistic view of "I like the main character, and I dislike anyone that does bad things to the main character." So while I definitely think most of the negative stuff surrounding the show to this point like backlash to Bella is a small and almost-entirely-online phenomenon, I also think the show is going to be legitimately asking the audience to take a major leap in killing off Joel and centering Abby. (The showrunners have also basically explicitly said they are conscious of this phenomenon and have crafted this season accordingly, based on the quotes on the last page.) That being said, other people being bad at watching TV doesn't affect my enjoyment of a show and I am an adult who can handle a story switching protagonists and deviating from standard narrative arcs. The fact that viewers might turn away from the show without Pascal or there might be more vocal criticism of this show pretty soon doesn't really matter to me beyond it being a mildly interesting pattern of behavior to observe
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Apr 14, 2025 23:00
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Alan Smithee posted:so it always bugged me in the game when ellie kills that one woman in Abby's crew she sees ellie isn't wearing a mask and goes "you're her!" A funny wrinkle to that is that the show did away with airborne infections and spores so that scene can’t really work in the same way as the game.
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Apr 14, 2025 23:02
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Alan Smithee posted:so it always bugged me in the game when ellie kills that one woman in Abby's crew she sees ellie isn't wearing a mask and goes "you're her!" i think they stopped caring at that point. as far as they know, abby's dad was the only one who could extract ellie's brain to make the cure. he's dead so there's no need/point to find ellie. they just wanted to take joel to the pga tour for, you know, dooming humanity.
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Apr 14, 2025 23:02
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xbilkis posted:This is all based on half-remembered stuff I read ages ago, but I'm pretty sure the Walking Dead is just one example of the reality that your average TV viewer has a pretty simplistic view of "I like the main character, and I dislike anyone that does bad things to the main character." So while I definitely think most of the negative stuff surrounding the show to this point like backlash to Bella is a small and almost-entirely-online phenomenon, I also think the show is going to be legitimately asking the audience to take a major leap in killing off Joel and centering Abby. (The showrunners have also basically explicitly said they are conscious of this phenomenon and have crafted this season accordingly, based on the quotes on the last page.) probably gonna lay on the pedro flashback fanservice thick maybe have him be a jedi spirit
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Apr 14, 2025 23:03
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Alan Smithee posted:probably gonna lay on the pedro flashback fanservice thick I mean, the game already does that. They could easily get an episode or two out of the flashbacks already baked into the story. Spread them over the course of the season (or two depending on how they structure it) and he'll easily be in every episode. Anyway I thought the first episode was pretty great and it's made me itch to replay the game. If it weren't 25 hours long I probably would.
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Apr 14, 2025 23:09
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BigglesSWE posted:A funny wrinkle to that is that the show did away with airborne infections and spores so that scene can’t really work in the same way as the game. They've added them back for this season, at least by the looks of the trailer.
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Apr 14, 2025 23:16
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stev posted:I mean, the game already does that. They could easily get an episode or two out of the flashbacks already baked into the story. Spread them over the course of the season (or two depending on how they structure it) and he'll easily be in every episode. Oh, I'm replaying it this summer I think for sure. Might pay the $10 dollar upgrade to get those new modes (I bough the digital PS4 version when it first came out).
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Apr 14, 2025 23:17
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Larryb posted:Eh, they’re no Ashley Johnson but I never minded them honestly (also they fake a decent American accent) In the hbo podcast about this with the creators and Joel’s voice actor they talk about how Kaitlyn Devers was considered when it was going to be a movie adaptation but “aged out” of the role. Cailee Spaeny would be an incredible pick, especially since her and a pregnant Isabela Merced were just in Alien Romulus together, but whatever. Bella Ramsey is really good as Ellie. Sometimes people are ugly and that’s just how life is. It seems exhausting to be mad about it.
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Apr 14, 2025 23:25
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LionArcher posted:They've added them back for this season, at least by the looks of the trailer. yeah having ellie do a fakeout of that weird french kissy poo poo Tess went through in s1 is probably not ideal
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Apr 14, 2025 23:27
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zelah posted:In the hbo podcast about this with the creators and Joel’s voice actor they talk about how Kaitlyn Devers was considered when it was going to be a movie adaptation but “aged out” of the role. I watched Justified for the first time a few months back and she would have been absolutely perfect as Ellie if the show was made back then.
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Apr 14, 2025 23:28
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zelah posted:Bella Ramsey is really good as Ellie. Sometimes people are ugly and that’s just how life is. It seems exhausting to be mad about it.
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Apr 15, 2025 00:11
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dina is almost a little too charismatic speaking as someone who didn't even remember the actress in Alien Romulus
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Apr 15, 2025 00:16
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Alan Smithee posted:dina is almost a little too charismatic Yeah she’s way more magnetic than video game Dina, who is more like just a good hang.
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Apr 15, 2025 00:35
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LionArcher posted:They've added them back for this season, at least by the looks of the trailer. This isn't necessary if it's just for the torture scene. They could just have made Ellie been visibly bit during the chase, there were infected around.
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Apr 15, 2025 00:39
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mcmagic posted:It's a problem for the show that they are going to kill off pedro pascal who everyone loves and try to make you care about ellie, who everyone seems to hate now or the girl that clubbed everyone's favorite pedro. I don't think everyone hates her but are taking advantage of the way social media works to create the narrative that everyone hates her now.
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Apr 15, 2025 00:58
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