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Since the 2020 report on the Astros cheating in the 2017 World Series came out, N/V threads have been clogged up periodically by Dodgers/Yankees/Astros fans arguing over whether or not the Astros were fairly punished. Truthfully, there has never been a real consensus opinion on what’s what with this situation. Therefore, this thread will be used to air out grievances related to this scandal and such. In my view, when the report came out, I thought the logical response would have been to vacate Houston’s title, suspend all the relevant players, and hit Cora and Lunhow with lengthy bans. I think this kind of thing would have put the situation to bed early, but that obviously didn’t happen. The Astros instead have been subject to trial by public opinion, which frankly hasn’t been enough. I’m a Yankees fan, and the absurd way in which Houston couldn’t hit a lick in New York in Games 3, 4, and 5 was eye opening with the context that they were relying on can bangs in Houston. My view on the situation is that Houston didn’t get hit hard enough to curb cheating in the game, but ultimately cheating has always been part of the fabric of the game. It doesn’t mean it’s okay, but I do think that the regulating body on fair play needs to be stricter so a scheme as complex as Houston’s doesn’t develop (and who knows what’s in play right now that we don’t know about)
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Feb 12, 2023 06:21
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| # ? Apr 28, 2024 14:52 |
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Part of what really fuckin annoys me is that the Astros cheating is only one reason I hate that putrid loving organization. If they never got caught I'd still hate them. In short, gently caress the Astros forever and ever.maffew buildings posted:Do people who get upset about no consequences for the 2017 Astros also get mad about the 1951 Giants or Gaylord Perry being in the Hall, too? If Giants fans brought it up every two weeks to loving piss and moan about how mean everyone is to their plucky little franchise, then yeah! Probably! alpha_destroy fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Feb 12, 2023 |
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Feb 12, 2023 06:56
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If me and bawfuls can make up then anyone else can. Astros cheated in a hilarious way. They have shown that they are a great organization regardless (hate if you want, but you can't disregard this entire run unless you really are that bitter... And I feel sorry if you do) which makes it even funnier that they banged the cans. I care waaaaay less about this once they won last year. They got their legit title, let the other fanbases make fun of the cans. Everyone wins! Except that one random Royals poster who has the weirdest hate boner for the Astros.
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Feb 12, 2023 07:13
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Should've vacated the title, and banned any of the players from ever being enshrined in the hall.
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Feb 12, 2023 07:31
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Good video on this topic from Baseball doesn't exist. Focuses on Altuve. https://youtu.be/tQTdEKA-nyM
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Feb 12, 2023 15:04
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Everybody cheats but they got caught and the lump of metal should’ve been vacated IMO. The players involved should probably not have hall eligibility given the way the hall works, if guys like Barry bonds or Alex Rodriguez or Pete rose are going to be blackballed from it then these dudes should be too. If the voters decide to remove the stick from their asses about letting the steroid guys in then I’m fine with the cheating stros being in also with a nice big asterisk on their plaque or whatever.
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Feb 12, 2023 16:35
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The 2017 Astros exist to balance the cosmic energy that was misaligned during the Jeffery Maier incident and therefore it’s fine.
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Feb 12, 2023 18:06
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i don't care but it seems weird to fully encourage future cheating if you don't want cheating. so i think the big baseball company wants everyone to get pretty strong with it. with cheating. but i suppose that's better than how the ncaa handles it
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Feb 12, 2023 21:18
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Either put Barry Bonds, Alex Rodriguez, and Roger Clemens in the Hall of Fame, or vacate the 2017 title. I'm for the former, but the latter would also bring me back into watching baseball. - - - - - The league said the punishment for the Astros would be to face the crowds jeers, and then they prevented crowds from attending. A sport too expensive to pick up and play, too expensive to watch, too sanctimonious to recognize the best sportsmen to ever compete, but too meek to enforce sportsmanship among their active players. Some teams lose because the value of the franchise will appreciate either way and are thus not incentivized to win. All-Star rookies lose a full year of their career because the only company allowed to employ them is pinching pennies, collusive cartel practice paying minor league players sub-minimum wage. Some teams win because certain baseballs have less drag and more elasticity than others, inflating slugging. Japan's commissioner of baseball had to resign in disgrace for that same exact stunt. It's a call-in radio crank's catchphrase but I'm done with the show. I'll catch a KBO game when I can.
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Feb 12, 2023 22:23
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I haven't been a baseball fan since 1994 and I rarely pay attention to it now, so I feel like I can offer a perfectly unbiased opinion: they won the 2017 World Series but it came out afterwards that they were doing the trash can banging cheating thing then? drat, sounds like that title and any other individual accolades for that year should be vacated. Then we can all heal and move on.
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Feb 13, 2023 03:17
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The Astros were more likely to beat the Dodgers without sign-stealing than the Yankees without sign-stealing.
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Feb 13, 2023 03:25
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Carlosologist posted:the logical response would have been to vacate Houston’s title MLB was never, ever going to vacate the title, because MLB is entirely up its own rear end about its legacy and history, and it is forever embarrassed about the 1994 World Series being canceled. Not having a champion for a year is essentially anathema to MLB now, which is one of the reasons they strong-armed the union into playing the shortened COVID season: There had to be a World Series.
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Feb 13, 2023 05:01
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astros smell like dookie
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Feb 13, 2023 05:31
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Cheating is cool and funny, doing it by banging on trash cans is funny, being genuinely mad about cheating 5+ years after it happened (when it's clear that technology-aided sign stealing in baseball was rampant around these times and it's clear that the Astros players involved are genuinely championship-level talented rather than a fluke group reliant on knowing when an offspeed pitch is coming) is loser poo poo* *I'll give a pass to Dodgers fans who get to claim in perpetuity that their World Series loss is fraudulent, but they still shouldn't probably care about it that much deep down now that both teams have won World Serieses with a lot of the same key pieces in place
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Feb 13, 2023 06:14
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Again, the Astros won the 2022 WS so loving let the other fanbases dunk on the 2017 Astros for doing the dumbest stuff imaginable. I cannot hate bawfuls now for informing me about my now favorite podcast, Tipping Pitches. It is the most socialist of podcasts about baseball and gave me a perspective that even I, someone who knows a great deal about baseball, never had. I'm always appreciative to learn more about the sport that was my first love in sports fandom. I have nothing but love and respect for him now, and therefore, all of Dodgers fandom. Hate on the Astros all you want, you crazy diamonds!
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Feb 13, 2023 09:24
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2017 should've been vacated, they got caught. The organisation I'm not a fan of because they've been pretty unrepentant about it, but they got a legit one in pretty dominant fashion in 2022 and you can't argue that one. It is pretty fun to yell/post bang the cans though.
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Feb 13, 2023 11:06
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If the Astros should have had their title vacated, should the Red Sox also have had theirs vacated?
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Feb 13, 2023 14:59
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Darude - Adam Sandstorm posted:If the Astros should have had their title vacated, should the Red Sox also have had theirs vacated? Yes gently caress the Red Sox
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Feb 13, 2023 16:03
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I think the Astros have really struggled a lot with "adversity," you hate to see it
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Feb 13, 2023 16:37
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people really hate systematic cheating and really hate cheating involving things outside the game. idk why its a huge mystery everyones going to hate them for decades op
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Feb 13, 2023 16:47
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The Astros cheated and the trophy should have been stripped and their names should live on forever in infamy, but also posters being shocked and appalled that Astros fans bitch back is lame as hell.
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Feb 13, 2023 19:19
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had to post once in this thread. fart
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Feb 13, 2023 20:23
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I'm a life long Astros hater as a Rangers fan, but I don't give a poo poo about the sign-stealing. I thought the "Thank God we got Osuna" thing was pretty funny also.
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Feb 13, 2023 23:39
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I think it's clear by now the Astros were not unique in electronic sign stealing. The Yankees and Red Sox were officially caught and punished by MLB (Boston was caught twice!). The Dodgers are implicated in an upcoming Drellich book and by a former player (Reddick and even if you want to dismiss him, it's still a Dodgers player saying the Dodgers were stealing signs). There have also been infinite players who have stated the Astros were not unique and other teams were stealing signs (Erik Kratz Chris Bassit, Lucas Giolto, Chris Sale, Logan Morrison, and others). This being the case, it's ridiculous that posters here should say Astros fans should just shut up and take it. Also, if y'all don't want to talk about it - stop loving posting about it - this forum can't quit the 2017 Astros - you love them. However, out of all of this, the Altuve thing actually gets to me. He is the face of the sign stealing scandal, bears the brunt of the hatred from the fans, and didn't actually do anything. He never says a word about it, never deflects blame, just owns it and keeps hitting. Jomboy and a fake twitter account elevated the buzzer story which is basically Baseball QAnon and made themselves rich destroying Altuve's reputation. It's kind of sad and maybe funny in retrospect that in the 2019 ALCS at bat that everyone talks about - Chapman, and not Altuve, was the one cheating. Even if people will hate the Astros forever and contort themselves into thinking their cheating was different and not bad, we should at least operate from the same truth that Jose Altuve didn't cheat. Also Jose is perfect and beautiful and unless you're a Cardinal or Yankee fan, he would have been the best hitter on your team last year. If you want raw data to show Altuve didn't cheat - it's here https://signstealingscandal.com/players/ with the raw data to back it up. If you want a narrative explaining the data and background that Altuve didn't cheat, it's here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQTdEKA-nyM&t=5s. If you want first hand reported accounts about how Altuve didn't cheat - it's here. https://twitter.com/BenDuBose/status/1593643557092466688. Sab0921 fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Feb 14, 2023 |
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Feb 14, 2023 01:59
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Cheating is good glad the Astros won, wish they win again through more cheating, especially cheating at baseball, which makes people angry over a bad form of entertainment
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Feb 14, 2023 02:01
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Rivals threads are now youtube videos.
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Feb 14, 2023 02:01
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Altuve cheated and he kicked my dog, it's time the thread admits it. Look inside yourself and confront the cold hard truth.
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Feb 14, 2023 06:09
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Maybe it's just a lifetime of watching pro wrestling, but I honestly don't care at all about the cheating. I've been an Astros fan for over 30 years and I'm not going to stop over the cans. I'm also certainly not going to self-flagellate publicly in a futile attempt to win good will for myself or the team from other baseball fans who have already made up their minds about everyone involved. I was at Game 5 in 2017 which was the single best live event I've ever been to, and if the can banging led to that night, then so be it. I'm happy my favorite team has 2 championships in my lifetime, with hopefully more in the near future. Also worth noting, is that all the Astros hate seems to play out only online. I do not live in Houston, and have never run into any hate in the wild when I wear my Astros gear (which is a lot). I'm even friends with a Dodgers fan IRL. Were there even any real horror stories from Astros fans at Yankee Stadium last year?
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Feb 14, 2023 08:19
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There was an Astros fan at the game shown on TV wearing their 90s blue and gold gear, that's horror enough for me
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Feb 14, 2023 09:07
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If I was Commish, I would have vacated the title and asked the lawyers if it's possible to give Houston a three year postseason ban. I don't know how many guys should be Pete Rose'd but Carlos Beltran would definitely be the first. Honestly, I think I'd still dislike the Astros even if the cheating never came to light, as villains go they're enjoyable to demonize because they're the one "tank to win" success story. (The Cubs never really cut payroll to ribbons.) They're a poo poo organization but I know the vast majority of their fans didn't choose to follow a dirty team so don't hold it against them. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 09:26 on Feb 14, 2023 |
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Feb 14, 2023 09:24
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Altuve wore a buzzer and cheated. That’s the consensus, anything else is bozo talk.
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Feb 14, 2023 11:01
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AL fans should keep making trash can jokes, Astros fans should just say "RINGGGZZ" or point out that they earned Dusty Baker his lifetime appreciation ring, but it really shouldn't turn into huge loving derails in TYOOL 2023. and I say this as a Mariners fan that's still mad about that playoff series last season.
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Feb 14, 2023 13:30
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Intruder posted:There was an Astros fan at the game shown on TV wearing their 90s blue and gold gear, that's horror enough for me Those are the best uniforms OP. Gold shooting star is the Astros (nevermind that Drayton did it to make the uniforms more generic so he could threaten to move the team to get a new stadium)
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Feb 14, 2023 13:53
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Everyone cheated. But we already knew that because the first line of the Athletic Mike Fiers article was "everyone is cheating" Astros were the fall guy for a league wide non-competitive practice, kind of like certain guys get the entire steroid era hung on them when MLB was more or less okay with it at the time and tons of dudes were juicing, even dudes that are in the hall now. What's newsy about that is that the Astros were using the same system everyone else was using on the road, but at home I guess they just got lazy and banged cans. Also explains how they might've used the system in the playoffs when everyone acknowledges the can banging couldn't be heard over the crowd. zoux fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Feb 14, 2023 |
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Feb 14, 2023 15:41
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If you don't think there's tiers to the cheating, you're being willfully naive. No other teams were doing it in real time, that was Astros specific. Cheating tiers: Lance Armstrong Tier (were the "worst", but not by as much as everyone wants to think): Astros The New England Patriots tier (they cheated, were caught, celebrated as champs cause no-one cares): Red Sox, Yankees Carl Lewis Tier (everyone knew they were doing it too but they never officially caught and we want to celebrate them cause no-one actually cares): Dodgers The entire Olympics tier (everyone cheats, no-one cares): Rest of MLB
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Feb 14, 2023 15:47
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No, they were doing it in real time. The difference is that the astros could do it with bases empty at home, other teams could only do it with runners in scoring position. And as far as we know these teams did it at home as well, they just didn't do it in such a way that Jomboy could make a youtube video showing you every time they stole a sign. Here's an interview with the dastard Evan Drellich https://twitter.com/jcmccaffrey/status/1625495328211496966  That sure sounds like in real time to me. zoux fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Feb 14, 2023 |
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Feb 14, 2023 15:51
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The Red Sox and Yankees (and Dodgers) were not decoding the specific sign for each pitch as that pitch happened in real time in the video room. They were decoding sign sequences and then relaying that to runners who then interpreted what the catcher was calling. The Astros were calling out the pitch that was about to be thrown from the video room. They are very different things, and anyone pretending they aren't is again, being willfully naive. They are both cheating and both should be considered as such, but one was done pitch by pitch in real time, the other was done for sequences only.
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Feb 14, 2023 15:59
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Wrong thread for this.
mcmagic fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Feb 14, 2023 |
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Feb 14, 2023 16:03
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I also don't care about voiding world series' or whatever, because I don't think you can say the Astros' 2017 title should be voided and then not void the Red Sox title and then in the future not void the Cubs' or Royals' or Dodgers' when it comes out they were doing something similar. But I also think the Astros got off light in terms of fines and draft picks taken away and suspensions. Players should have been suspended.
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Feb 14, 2023 16:03
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Darude - Adam Sandstorm posted:The Red Sox and Yankees (and Dodgers) were not decoding the specific sign for each pitch as that pitch happened in real time in the video room. They were decoding sign sequences and then relaying that to runners who then interpreted what the catcher was calling. Maybe I'm misunderstanding - the other system involved a dude on second who knew the signs from using their video room and he would signal to the batter what pitch was coming based on what the catcher put down, right?
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Feb 14, 2023 16:05
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