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Nobody is disputing that other teams were likely cheating, it's about the extent the Astros went with it and also they won a World Series well doing it. You can't false-equivalence out of that, they made a bunch of money off of cheating and were not punished in any meaningful way. Edit: I dislike the Astro's organization far more than any individual player and I do think some players on that 2017 team receive more flak than others unfairly (Altuve) but they cheated harder than anyone else and ended up narrowly winning a championship well doing so. Popete fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Apr 11, 2023 |
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Apr 11, 2023 20:26
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Sab0921 posted:Here is the link and the actual quote from a 2018 article about electronic sign stealing (before the can bang heard round the world) - what do you think these guys were looking at?
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Apr 11, 2023 20:31
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Kevlar v2.0 posted:Because right now it's telegraphing that if you're a player, you can cheat to win the World Series and you won't be punished for it. It set a precedent where if it ever happens again, you can point to how the players on the 2017 Astros got zero punishment, so the same should be true for any future players that do the same thing. I would prefer there be no cheating in my professional sports, but if you're not going to do anything about it when it happens then just open the flood gates. "But that would be bad for the sport." Yeah, add it to the list. I spent years detesting the steroid era players, and now I feel like a fuckin idiot because the league clearly never actually gave a poo poo when the commissioner in charge of that era was put into the hall. Either it matters or it doesn't, but be consistent. Inconsistency and handwaving poo poo like this away with some performative "see, these two dudes got hosed we did our part" to me is a larger problem in the big picture. Why follow any team if only the cheaters are going to win--furthermore, why follow any team even if it's cheating if their specific brand of cheating is randomly chosen to be forbidden that season. It's a mess. I would still be irritated with cheating, but if you can point at the league and say "it's a little late, every team is a cyborg now" I'd just have to swallow my issues with it and just move on.
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Apr 11, 2023 20:32
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bawfuls posted:You can not possibly be this dense. You sure about this
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Apr 11, 2023 20:37
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bawfuls posted:You can not possibly be this dense. Are you really this naive? I know you love the Dodgers a lot and want to believe that they are just innocent victims and have never stolen a sign, but come on.
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Apr 11, 2023 20:50
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bawfuls posted:When you attempt to paper over these distinctions, it really undermines your whole "I'm a reasonable Astros fan who understands why people are mad and doesn't attempt to apologize for the team" schtick. I'm going to ignore everything else, because that conversation has been subjective opinions between us. We have our takes and said our peace and that's cool with me. These comments are bush league bro. Do better.
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Apr 11, 2023 20:55
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Popete posted:Nobody is disputing that other teams were likely cheating, it's about the extent the Astros went with it and also they won a World Series well doing it. You can't false-equivalence out of that, they made a bunch of money off of cheating and were not punished in any meaningful way. Ok - but other teams set up cameras in their stadium. Other teams built spreadsheets of signs. Other teams conveyed signs in real time. The Astros organization wasn't even unique, in the report from MLB they even stated that this whole thing started because Beltran told them they were behind the times. The Astros cheated and won a world series by beating 3 other teams in the playoffs that also were cheating. If you think the Astros went further than other teams and are worse then fine, but it feels weird to say this level of cheating is ok, and one step beyond actually deserves having the Black Sox treatment and all awards and titles stripped. I think they were punished in a meaningful way. They lost significant draft picks, their WS winning manager, the best GM in the sport, and the players, especially Altuve (who didn't cheat), have had the focused ire of the MLB fanbase for 3 years.
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Apr 11, 2023 21:06
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Permaban all Astros fans. Except for me
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Apr 11, 2023 21:20
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MrMidnight posted:It's a troll post my dude. Ignore it. It's impossible to tell the difference between his troll post and every other astros fan post.
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Apr 11, 2023 22:15
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Alfred P. Pseudonym posted:I think the Astros should be disbanded because I don’t like them. Do the Yankees too while we’re at it. 
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Apr 11, 2023 22:17
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the astros cheated and suck for it, and because it's sports and none of it actually matters it's more fun to call the astros a bunch of cheating cunts because that's what they are. The fact their fans pretzel themselves defending their team by saying everyone else cheated too is more sad because the correct response is to flip the double bird while screaming "hell yeah we cheated, two time world series champions motherfuckers!" Either own the cheating whole hog and scream it to the clouds that you don't care because rings, or actually act like you feel bad that it happened.
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Apr 11, 2023 22:52
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Yeah that's always a great idea - devolve this forum into a bunch of shitposting.
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Apr 11, 2023 22:58
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Kirios posted:Yeah that's always a great idea - devolve this forum into a bunch of shitposting. The F1 thread is the best thread here, so I agree. The baseball thread is depressive, dark, and sad - it needs some joy.
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Apr 11, 2023 23:08
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Sab0921 posted:The F1 thread is the best thread here, so I agree. The baseball thread is depressive, dark, and sad - it needs some joy. Sounds like the baseball thread needs some passione
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Apr 11, 2023 23:14
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ilmucche posted:Sounds like the baseball thread needs some passione The F1 version of the baseball thread would just being arguing about fuel sensors or DAS or whatever forever.
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Apr 11, 2023 23:17
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Kirios posted:Yeah that's always a great idea - devolve this forum into a bunch of shitposting.
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Apr 11, 2023 23:20
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There won't be a consensus on the 2017 Astros. They cheated. Some people think that's fine, some people don't.
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Apr 11, 2023 23:29
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Sab0921 posted:The F1 version of the baseball thread would just being arguing about fuel sensors or DAS or whatever forever. The baseball version of the F1 thread would be aggressively arguing about propane v charcoal barbecues and doing meth in a floridian swamp while loving your cousin in your f-350 supercab Free tony montana
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Apr 11, 2023 23:36
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ilmucche posted:The baseball version of the F1 thread would be aggressively arguing about propane v charcoal barbecues and doing meth in a floridian swamp while loving your cousin in your f-350 supercab loving rude - it would be about whether a Trager is a real smoker (it's not).
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Apr 11, 2023 23:43
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Wait why is a Trager not a real smoker?
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Apr 11, 2023 23:46
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Kirios posted:Wait why is a Trager not a real smoker? You sure you want to do this? Bawfuls says you have to call me out before you engage. It's a pellet grill that's almost entirely electronically controlled - it's baby's first smoker
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Apr 11, 2023 23:52
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Sab0921 posted:You sure you want to do this? Bawfuls says you have to call me out before you engage. Wait how is that not just...an electric smoker? Like those cheap rear end Smoke Hollows?
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Apr 12, 2023 00:30
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e: actually let me take my own advice and NOT contribute to BBQ chat
Intruder fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Apr 12, 2023 |
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Apr 12, 2023 00:32
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No I legitimately didn't really know what a Traegar did in the smoking world other than being a big name. I have my own smoker that I've used forever and never looked into Traegars. That is...kind of disappointing. Edit: Oooh, I get it now, it's kind of an all in one solution. You can smoke and grill on one. Huh.
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Apr 12, 2023 00:33
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ilmucche posted:There won't be a consensus on the 2017 Astros. They cheated. Some people think that's fine, some people don't. This sounds correct op. Ferrari ftw.
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Apr 12, 2023 01:16
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bawfuls posted:The absolute worst offender on this is your fellow Astros poster Sab, who you don't bother calling out or engaging with on this issue in any way, so spare us the concern when others get tired of it and respond in kind This guy seems really mad. Does anyone agree
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Apr 12, 2023 01:16
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so the reason we're talking about this again is because a player on the 2017 team said they were stealing signs during the post-season, contradicting the MLB report that said it only happened in the regular season, right? or am I misremembering how this went down
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Apr 12, 2023 17:46
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The great ones tell their cheating opponents "not today"
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Apr 12, 2023 18:54
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Feels Villeneuve posted:This guy seems really mad. Does anyone agree He got mad on the internet about baseball. Really hate to see it.
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Apr 12, 2023 20:31
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E: a dumb derail
Popete fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Apr 12, 2023 |
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Apr 12, 2023 20:43
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bawfuls posted:so Sab is just making poo poo up to troll edit: also  with this too bawfuls posted:When you attempt to paper over these distinctions, it really undermines your whole "I'm a reasonable Astros fan who understands why people are mad and doesn't attempt to apologize for the team" schtick. Chris James 2 fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Apr 13, 2023 |
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Apr 13, 2023 14:58
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consensus easily reached.
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Apr 13, 2023 21:12
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Feels Villeneuve posted:This guy seems really mad. Does anyone agree Everyone except you is furious on the internet at all times, try to keep up
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Apr 13, 2023 23:31
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Chris James 2 posted:edit: also I legitimately don't troll and I didn't make anything up. In response to a question asking whether anything has ever said anyone has installed cameras outside of the replay cameras I posted an article from before the Astros scandal broke that said multiple teams have installed high magnification cameras for the purposes of stealing signs and used the Dodgers as an example. The author, Verducci, likened it to Vegas security control room. I didn't make anything up, Bawfuls just really has to hold on to Astro bad and has painted himself into a corner with his moral declarations about the Astros and their fans.
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Apr 14, 2023 04:15
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No you posted an article that said teams were watching "in-house" cameras
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Apr 14, 2023 04:45
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But Astros indeed bad, they big cheated and won a world series because of it. At least they got a legit one now, would've had some respect if they'd taken down the 2017 banner and replaced it with the 2022 one.
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Apr 14, 2023 08:23
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bawfuls posted:so Sab is just making poo poo up to rationalize it to themselves and/or troll
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Apr 14, 2023 11:20
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^^ Nope - as much as you want to believe the Astros invented sign stealing in 2017. It's just flat out not true. bawfuls posted:No you posted an article that said teams were watching "in-house" cameras The article literally said the teams have "installed" high magnification cameras for the purposes of stealing signs and used the Dodgers as an example. What does that mean to you? Sab0921 fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Apr 14, 2023 |
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Apr 14, 2023 13:41
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I thought we were trying to come to a consensus on the astros, the team who banged the cans to win the world series, not any other team
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Apr 14, 2023 15:07
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Thread title should be: Astros fans & everyone else bitch about 2017 cheating here
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Apr 14, 2023 16:17
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