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BaldDwarfOnPCP posted:that one had a racial component i thought? like lady radia says it could be but i've found it to be more of a northeastern city (read: nyc, boston, baltimore, dc to a lesser extent) kinda thing. which i guess kinda also inherently gives it a racial component
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Sep 19, 2023 01:16
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qirex posted:this thread title reminds me of "hella noms, lots of dranks" for some reason hell yes to getting lit on a monday OP
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Sep 19, 2023 01:50
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graph posted:potent postables
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Sep 19, 2023 01:53
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dont forget the best beats or the yammer pong tables
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Sep 19, 2023 03:51
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Powerful Two-Hander posted:"Axe you a question" hasn't made it over which is good because I seriously do not get that it definitely has, one of the workers at the daycare my daughter went to in layton said it all the time
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Sep 19, 2023 06:25
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yall gon make me lose my mind
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Sep 19, 2023 06:28
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i mean it's a joke in futurama specifically because people say it and prescriptivists (and second-grade teachers) get mad that they say it
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Sep 19, 2023 06:32
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still remember being told in I think second grade that ain't isn't a word at all, and that contractions in general weren't "real" words (???)
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Sep 19, 2023 06:33
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you can't start a sentence with a conjunction either. but everyone does it anyway
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Sep 19, 2023 06:34
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Shame Boy posted:still remember being told in I think second grade that ain't isn't a word at all, and that contractions in general weren't "real" words (???) i kinda get this. not so much the ain’t erasure, but teaching you to write out the contractions in full to understand what is going on. in first grade i remember struggling with where to put the apostrophe cos (for example) i didn’t understand isn’t is a contraction of is not
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Sep 19, 2023 06:59
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Powerful Two-Hander posted:"Axe you a question" hasn't made it over which is good because I seriously do not get that
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Sep 19, 2023 11:01
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Powerful Two-Hander posted:"Axe you a question" hasn't made it over which is good because I seriously do not get that english has had a few sound shifts for this that are involved here, plus some borrowings and then prescriptivist bullshit long long ago, like olde englishe times (so we're starting well before 1066) the verb "ask" /æsk/ shifted to "aks" /æks/ as a commonly-accepted variant coz sometimes words do a little flip, it happens, don't worry bout it (also don't worry about inflections and endings either, they existed but i'm omitting them here as irrelevant for my purposes. also don't worry about spellings so much; the word was spelled "asc-" and then "acs-" or "ax-", even though now we spell it typically "ask-") at some point english had a sound shift where the consonant cluster /sk/ weakened to an /ʃ/ ("sh" sound), so the two forms of "ask" were pronounced /æʃ/ "ash" and /æks/ "aks" or "ax". (after the sound shift the "sc" /sk/ consonant cluster became a digraph pronounced like the modern english digraph "sh" for /ʃ/) this is why we now have words like "shape" and "shirt" and even "english", even as we later reborrowed a bunch of their exact cognates from like dutch and scandinavian languages or sometimes latinate forms, and if you have two slightly distinct copies of a word for a single concept then the two copies will naturally diverge in meaning a bit over time there's a bunch of these! a few examples include:
futurama then took all that history and posited that by the year 3000, another prescriptivist shift has occurred but in the opposite direction, so "ax" is now the prestige form, while saying "ask" makes you sound lower-class e: mystes posted:Apparently that pronunciation used to be common in England https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nysHgnXx-o Grace Baiting fucked around with this message at 12:26 on Sep 19, 2023 |
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Sep 19, 2023 11:52
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drat well I learned something new today
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Sep 19, 2023 12:07
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4lokos basilisk posted:i wonder how life was even possible before alexa and siri. it must have been completely impossible for a regular person to cook a meal it was, most people back then died.
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Sep 19, 2023 12:12
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git apologist posted:i kinda get this. not so much the ain’t erasure, but teaching you to write out the contractions in full to understand what is going on. apostrophes are made up sequences of one or more function words sometimes get shortened and that's cool, and i guess you can mark that textually with a tiny curlicue but then you also get stuff like some dipshits going:
 , therefore english's possessive case is actually a contraction of the word "is" on the end (in a completely different meaning for a copula than its usual meaning!!), and let's take some pronouns for example, ah "his horse" is actually "he (is) horse"  we shall ignore all other pronouns because the third person singular masculine pronoun is good enough for everyone and everything!!! and what they actually did they have played us for fools it also didn't stick for pronouns themselves since their cases are too obvious to outright deny their existence (but also apostrophes on pronouns are now even messier than the stupid situation with nouns)
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Sep 19, 2023 12:19
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ooh, i should put some pronouns with apostrophes in them in my twitter bio
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Sep 19, 2023 12:24
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he/hi’s
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Sep 19, 2023 12:29
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goblin week posted:ooh, i should put some pronouns with apostrophes in them in my twitter bio didnt u get sus’d
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Sep 19, 2023 12:39
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Nybble posted:he/hi’s 
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Sep 19, 2023 12:39
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Shame Boy posted:still remember being told in I think second grade that ain't isn't a word at all, and that contractions in general weren't "real" words (???) fwiw this is some of the Quebec French Canadian experience. French is a very normative language that is dominated by prescriptivism as a mindset, to the extent that descriptivism in language is something linguists care about and do mention a lot but pretty much none of the educational system recognizes. Specifically for French, there's room for a formal language register, which is the one generally taught, and then there is a bit of a familiar register. But this familiar register is only defined as used language in France, often closer to Paris (other familiar terms are regionalisms). The familiar register of many other nations (say, Quebec, Haiti, or North African countries) are not recognized as proper French. Many of the everyday expressions and words used in these places are either no longer recognized (archaic) or were never seen as valid in the first place. This pattern keeps going even though some of these places have developed their own prescriptive language authorities (eg. Quebec with l'Office Québécois de la Langue Française, which competes with France's L'Académie de la Langue Française) that modify the language nevertheless do it from a highly normative position: we need a word for X, let's make it; we need to create feminine versions of job positions, let's do it; but familiar language still isn't recognized. Language evolution is organized and planned under the current system, and generally ignores the everyday evolution in ways English and other less normative languages do not. There's a concern to maintain language purity (cleanliness?) and accuracy at the systemic level. The end result is that most kids here end up growing up in a school system that tells them the language they use every day, and that their parents and grandparents have used every day, is not valid, not proper, and can't be written down. The only proper way to write French is the way French people do it in France and how politicians speak it, the rest is just ignorance. This pattern is incidentally reinforced externally (eg. English speakers constantly repeating that Quebec French is not real French). TV shows and all books, for a long time, were only written in that formal register, such that you have to switch between your everyday spoken language and the written language as two different things. You use different words, expressions, and grammar when speaking and when you write. It's a bit as if for Americans, only the British spelling and expressions were valid in any written essay and more formal setting (such as the workplace) and everyday speak was invalid. This problem does not exist in US English because the language is not as normative, although this is more of a power dynamic. While the normative concept is ridiculous for many white US English speakers (it's color not colour, and these contractions like can't or shouldn't are valid), I believe the normativeness to pretty much be true for African American populations who have to code switch a whole loving lot in every day life to conform to linguistic expectations of a dominant group. The difference with Quebec is that the structure is self-imposed, or at least imposed on group lines that don't align with race. There's been movements here in linguistics, songwriting, novels, and poetry to reclaim the right to that familiar level of language to be appreciated and recognized, but established media and thinking lines will often still see it as trying to celebrate ignorance and lower standards. I like to imagine that it creates a whole different mindset and relationship to power structures to live that way, but I couldn't say for sure.
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Sep 19, 2023 13:36
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Chris Knight posted:lol from the street sign that is the 2200 block of san gabriel in austin: https://maps.app.goo.gl/z1cmRqkJH4UXJJYb7?g_st=ic so that’s right next to a 50k student campus at ut austin after a footballs game, it is gonna be a poo poo show no matter what but the cruise cars seem drawn to that area like moths to a flame, happened last week too.
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Sep 19, 2023 14:08
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git apologist posted:i kinda get this. not so much the ain’t erasure, but teaching you to write out the contractions in full to understand what is going on. weirdly they didn't also make us write out "god be with ye" instead of "goodbye"
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Sep 19, 2023 14:10
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The Fool posted:I get the sentiment, but there are plenty of times where I want to be able to set a timer or add a thing to a list and don't have the hands to do it easily available. i do love that i can set a timer on my watch while bathing the dog. the medicated dog shampoo needs to sit on her skin for 10 min after you rinse the normal shampoo but by the time i apply it my hands are full of 50 lbs of wet soapy pitbull trying to escape the bathtub.
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Sep 19, 2023 14:11
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MononcQc posted:fwiw this is some of the Quebec French Canadian experience. French is a very normative language that is dominated by prescriptivism as a mindset, to the extent that descriptivism in language is something linguists care about and do mention a lot but pretty much none of the educational system recognizes. i swear someone in this thread at one point mentioned that french canadians take the french language far more seriously than the actual french, and are way more prescriptivist about it (like they have an official body that decides what gets to be french while france doesn't really bother, or something like that), which is really funny
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Sep 19, 2023 14:12
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MononcQc posted:fwiw this is some of the Quebec French Canadian experience. French is a very normative language that is dominated by prescriptivism as a mindset, to the extent that descriptivism in language is something linguists care about and do mention a lot but pretty much none of the educational system recognizes. i always called it redneck french. in a similar vein, my colombian friend says i sound like a dirty mexican when i speak spanish.
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Sep 19, 2023 14:21
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Mr. Nice! posted:i always called it redneck french. they make mouthwash for that
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Sep 19, 2023 14:25
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sound not smell, fart!
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Sep 19, 2023 14:27
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Shame Boy posted:i swear someone in this thread at one point mentioned that french canadians take the french language far more seriously than the actual french, and are way more prescriptivist about it (like they have an official body that decides what gets to be french while france doesn't really bother, or something like that), which is really funny it might have been me. French Canadians are exceedingly aware of the demographic pressures of being the one French-speaking country in North America (conveniently ignoring Haiti, or saying "actually it's in central america so it's alright") and will go through great efforts to make sure we don't just borrow English words here and there and have a proper version of everything, even though every day informal use already borrowed a ton of words regardless. There's a small movement among linguists (with authors such as sociolinguistics expert Anne-Marie Beaudoin-Bégin spearheading it) that try to make the point that adjusting the way we teach French to also support the familiar register is actually one of the things you could do to keep younger people interested in the language rather than seeing it as less and less useful, particularly because the invalidating nature of the current education system makes it real easy for people to just speak what they want and ignore a system they see as more and more disconnected from what is useful to them. She makes the point that languages evolve no matter what you do, and that the reason French survived so long in Quebec is not because we started teaching it real hard in organized schools in the last century, but because people kept using it every day. Fighting that evolution reduces the relevance of the school system rather than being a sign of French vanishing, and embracing the evolution might do better long term to maintain the institutions that historically help maintain French's position. Quebec's French movement has also been tied to politics, and there used to be a sort of unity across all French-Canadian communities in Canada, but the sovereignty movement sort of created a lot of isolation for all the other French communities in other provinces, particularly in New Brunswick and Ontario, but also the smaller bubbles in Manitoba, Alberta, etc.
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Sep 19, 2023 14:53
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MononcQc posted:The end result is that most kids here end up growing up in a school system that tells them the language they use every day, and that their parents and grandparents have used every day, is not valid, not proper, and can't be written down. The only proper way to write French is the way French people do it in France and how politicians speak it, the rest is just ignorance. This pattern is incidentally reinforced externally (eg. English speakers constantly repeating that Quebec French is not real French). TV shows and all books, for a long time, were only written in that formal register, such that you have to switch between your everyday spoken language and the written language as two different things. You use different words, expressions, and grammar when speaking and when you write. it doesn't help anyone that the language taught in the rest of canada also is not the one actually used in canada. i can generally understand spoken french of the "formal" variety, and i can get maybe one word in ten of quebecois french, despite two years of early childhood french immersion and a subsequent decade of french language education in ontario
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Sep 19, 2023 14:55
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Quebec is like a renfaire where the cosplayers get really mad if you dont use their made up language
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Sep 19, 2023 14:56
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i recall the milhist thread title about the napoleon bonaparte movie coming out november was "if you wanted it to be in french you should have won" feel like this is pretty comparable to the quebecois sitch. shoulda won in '80 or '95 bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Sep 19, 2023 |
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Sep 19, 2023 14:58
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some of my friends are quebeckers and they're alright. the friends dad speaks mostly frenglish.
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Sep 19, 2023 14:59
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bob dobbs is dead posted:i recall the milhist thread title about the napoleon bonaparte movie coming out november was "if you wanted it to be in french you should have won" 
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Sep 19, 2023 15:00
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bob dobbs is dead posted:i recall the milhist thread title about the napoleon bonaparte movie coming out november was "if you wanted it to be in french you should have won" lol
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Sep 19, 2023 15:02
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the general meme is that a language is a dialect with an army and a navy poo poo's all socially-delimited.
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Sep 19, 2023 15:04
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bob dobbs is dead posted:i recall the milhist thread title about the napoleon bonaparte movie coming out november was "if you wanted it to be in french you should have won" the quiet revolution was a little too quiet, despite 
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Sep 19, 2023 15:05
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we made alberta really mad and keep doing so continuously, to the point Alberta now has its own sovereignty movement while being fully landlocked and relying on exporting oil, it's great
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Sep 19, 2023 15:06
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MononcQc posted:we made alberta really mad and keep doing so continuously, to the point Alberta now has its own sovereignty movement while being fully landlocked, it's great legendary trolling
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Sep 19, 2023 15:06
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its prolly more just american nutjob influence
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Sep 19, 2023 15:07
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgiNoNqYXMA (the "mononc" in MononcQc is something I borrowed from Mononc' Serge 20+ years ago as a teenager, dude owns)
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Sep 19, 2023 15:07
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