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Tarezax
Sep 12, 2009

MORT cancels dance: interrupted by MORT
Wasn't the backlash to the backdown also a thing? Like, they managed to piss off both sides of the issue.

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PhazonLink
Jul 17, 2010
when does Target fire its suit for crashing the brand?

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster

PhazonLink posted:

when does Target fire its suit for crashing the brand?

Target didn't seem to have any major financial damage from their brief boycott and it didn't stick, so they don't care.

Twibbit
Mar 7, 2013

Is your refrigerator running?

PhazonLink posted:

when does Target fire its suit for crashing the brand?

I mean most those people swore off Target years ago when we openly announced we we were cool with trans people using their preferred bathroom. The people making a fuss were coming in explicitly to start poo poo so we didn't really lose sales to people that already didn't shop with us

Zapp Brannigan
Mar 29, 2006

we have an irc channel at #SA_MeetingWomen

Blue Footed Booby posted:

Also, the government will just kind of decide stuff sometimes, like making an entire project classified so everybody involved needs a clearance, or declaring that all positions that _______ require clearance without checking what that actually affects.

CEO of the place I used to work at had a clearance at a level at whatever our highest classified contract required even though he did no actual work on the projects. Clearances are granted just because someone has access to the SCIF they are being worked on in. Also for a lot of intelligence contracts, spy sats in this case, the contracts themelves are classified, and executive leadership would have access to those contracts.

the_steve
Nov 9, 2005

We're always hiring!

Tarezax posted:

Wasn't the backlash to the backdown also a thing? Like, they managed to piss off both sides of the issue.

Yeah, I do recall that.
First the chuds called for a boycott, so Budweiser tried to walk it back, which made the LGBT community angry so they did a counter-boycott.

BonoMan
Feb 20, 2002

Jade Ear Joe
Jesus something that I somehow missed in the Uvalde shooting but that was shown in the pics. the shooter wrote LOL in the kids blood on a whiteboard. What the gently caress.

Definitely NMS

This Is the Zodiac
Feb 4, 2003

If you can look at those school shooting photos without saying "death to America" you have a stronger constitution than I do.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

This Is the Zodiac posted:

If you can look at those school shooting photos without saying "death to America" you have a stronger constitution than I do.

What if I just say death to the second amendment?

Bel Shazar
Sep 14, 2012

haveblue posted:

What if I just say death to the second amendment?

Same thing

BUUNNI
Jun 23, 2023

by Pragmatica

haveblue posted:

What if I just say death to the second amendment?

Guns are the defining characteristic of this nation.

E: gently caress beaten

BUUNNI fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Nov 18, 2023

Oracle
Oct 9, 2004

zoux posted:

I think also those of us who can clearly remember 9/11 kind of downplay and joke about it a lot, and maybe that signals to kids too young to remember it well that it wasn’t a big deal and thus maybe OBL also isnt that big of a deal. Boomers weren’t like that about JFK, it was always the biggest thing that ever happened.

Or maybe not, anyone here who is actually under the age of like 30 who can say if they grew up thinking 9/11 is a big deal

My teenagers are barely aware of it and treat it like you’d treat Pearl Harbor on Dec 7th with your parents e.g. ‘were you alive back then? Did you see the planes?’ They’re more interested in stuff like how you could walk right up to the gates in airports and didn’t have to stand in huge lines to catch a flight and take off your shoes etc

Misunderstood
Jan 19, 2023

by Fluffdaddy

This Is the Zodiac posted:

If you can look at those school shooting photos without saying "death to America" you have a stronger constitution than I do.
You know the dead kids are Americans, right? Sounds like you're getting what you want.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment I'm alive, I pray for death!

Oracle posted:

My teenagers are barely aware of it and treat it like you’d treat Pearl Harbor on Dec 7th with your parents e.g. ‘were you alive back then? Did you see the planes?’ They’re more interested in stuff like how you could walk right up to the gates in airports and didn’t have to stand in huge lines to catch a flight and take off your shoes etc

Back when I was in grad school in the late 2000s I distinctly remember another student in the class going off about how no one will ever forget 9/11. I asked the individual in question what they'd done to commemorate 7 December, which had just passed, and got a blank stare in return.

H.R. Hufflepuff
Aug 5, 2005
The worst of all worlds

Misunderstood posted:

You know the dead kids are Americans, right? Sounds like you're getting what you want.

A+ Name and comment combo. By which I mean gently caress you.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

Misunderstood posted:

You know the dead kids are Americans, right? Sounds like you're getting what you want.

Death to America doesn't mean death to everyone in it. We are not our nation states, despite what Nationalism would have us believe. If someone says "death to England" I'd probably go "you know what, fair".

Nervous
Jan 25, 2005

Why, hello, my little slice of pecan pie.

Josef bugman posted:

Death to America doesn't mean death to everyone in it. We are not our nation states, despite what Nationalism would have us believe. If someone says "death to England" I'd probably go "you know what, fair".

England has given us Taskmaster, that's earned you a brief reprieve from the headsman's block.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


Captain_Maclaine posted:

Back when I was in grad school in the late 2000s I distinctly remember another student in the class going off about how no one will ever forget 9/11. I asked the individual in question what they'd done to commemorate 7 December, which had just passed, and got a blank stare in return.

We learned our lesson and named it after when it happened instead of where it happened. In 50 years, everyone will remember 9/11 but be unable to tell you what happened to the world trade center and the Pentagon and that field in Pennsylvania in the early 2000's.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

KillHour posted:

We learned our lesson and named it after when it happened instead of where it happened. In 50 years, everyone will remember 9/11 but be unable to tell you what happened to the world trade center and the Pentagon and that field in Pennsylvania in the early 2000's.

Should call it AlQ-WTC-911

Misunderstood
Jan 19, 2023

by Fluffdaddy

Josef bugman posted:

Death to America doesn't mean death to everyone in it.

I know what :d2a: means. It was still an incredibly inappropriate thing to say in that context and staggeringly bad use of symbolic language. If the only way you have to express opposition to death is to call for death then you need some fuckin’ positive energy in your life somewhere, I’m sorry.

BUUNNI
Jun 23, 2023

by Pragmatica

Misunderstood posted:

I know what :d2a: means. It was still an incredibly inappropriate thing to say in that context and staggeringly bad use of symbolic language. If the only way you have to express opposition to death is to call for death then you need some fuckin’ positive energy in your life somewhere, I’m sorry.

Why is it inappropriate to want to dismantle a nation that allows or even encourages this to happen to its own children as well as to children abroad with even more insane weapons?

You also admit that the “death” aspect is purely symbolic then ditch the symbolic language and attempt to use it as a literal call for more Americans to die, which is extremely weird. Can you explain what “positive energy” would mean in this context?

Your claim is no different than that of the politicians who say “right now is not the time to politicize this tragedy. Thoughts and prayers”

BUUNNI fucked around with this message at 13:13 on Nov 18, 2023

Vahakyla
May 3, 2013

BUUNNI posted:

Why is it inappropriate to want to dismantle a nation that allows or even encourages this to happen to its own children as well as to children abroad with even more insane weapons?

You also admit that the “death” aspect is purely symbolic then ditch the symbolic language and attempt to use it as a literal call for more Americans to die, which is extremely weird. Can you explain what “positive energy” would mean in this context?

Your claim is no different than that of the politicians who say “right now is not the time to politicize this tragedy. Thoughts and prayers”

BUUNNI posted:

Why is it inappropriate to want to dismantle a nation that allows or even encourages this to happen to its own children as well as to children abroad with even more insane weapons?

You also admit that the “death” aspect is purely symbolic then ditch the symbolic language and attempt to use it as a literal call for more Americans to die, which is extremely weird. Can you explain what “positive energy” would mean in this context?

Your claim is no different than that of the politicians who say “right now is not the time to politicize this tragedy. Thoughts and prayers”

If America falls apart tomorrow, untold misery will befall people in here, and in many other places. The sudden death of the state won’t solve a single thing over night or possibly ever, and only increase human cost. I’m sure we can agree on this.


While it’s certainly soul crushing to see those pictures, it just comes off as incredibly hollow to call for death to America because it implies like it’ll fix anything.

BUUNNI
Jun 23, 2023

by Pragmatica

Vahakyla posted:

If America falls apart tomorrow, untold misery will befall people in here, and in many other places. The sudden death of the state won’t solve a single thing over night or possibly ever, and only increase human cost. I’m sure we can agree on this.

Who said anything about leaving populations to be savaged by roving gangs of armed warlords or whatever you have in mind? It’s not a binary option between “police state that allows children to be gunned down in their schools” or “Cormac McCarthy’s The Road”. There are more options of governance and styles of government systems than what we currently have (dystopian at best) and Mogadishu in the 90’s.

Better things are possible.

BUUNNI fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Nov 18, 2023

Kalit
Nov 6, 2006

BUUNNI posted:

Who said anything about leaving populations to be savaged by roving gangs of armed warlords or whatever you have in mind? It’s not a binary option between “police state that allows children to be gunned down in their schools” or “Cormac McCarthy’s The Road”. There are more options of governance and styles of government systems than what we currently have (dystopian at best) and Mogadishu in the 90’s.

Better things are possible.

In concrete terms, what would the process/outcome of “death to america” look like to you?

I interpret that phrase, at a minimum, as overthrowing the government. If you agree with that, I don’t know how millions wouldn’t die. All of the government programs would immediately fall apart, fighting over creating a new system would occur, etc

Kalit fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Nov 18, 2023

BUUNNI
Jun 23, 2023

by Pragmatica

Kalit posted:

In concrete terms, what would the process/outcome of “death to america” look like to you?

By disallowing weapons of wars to be used freely abroad and domestically you would have dealt a lethal blow to the conception of the modern US hegemony. That plus more sustainable methods of economic production would be sufficient to change America into something that no longer resembles what we currently have.

Keeping America “alive” without killing massive amounts of children in schools here and abroad and also destroying the Earth’s climate system is a tough nut to crack for sure.

E: Wait are you claiming that the only way to stop children from dying in schools is to overthrow the government thereby killing more children that rely on, erm, “government programs”? I’m confused about the part that you added afterwards.

Vahakyla
May 3, 2013
If ”Death to America” to you means ”Make America less violent and more equal” then who the gently caress do you think here disagrees with that?

Either you are asking for the same thing as everyone, or you’re edgily calling for the destruction of the state because that’s what ”Death to X” usually means.

So which one is it?

BUUNNI
Jun 23, 2023

by Pragmatica

Vahakyla posted:

If ”Death to America” to you means ”Make America less violent and more equal” then who the gently caress do you think here disagrees with that?

How do you propose we do that?

Kalit
Nov 6, 2006

BUUNNI posted:

By disallowing weapons of wars to be used freely abroad and domestically you would have dealt a lethal blow to the conception of the modern US hegemony. That plus more sustainable methods of economic production would be sufficient to change America into something that no longer resembles what we currently have.

Keeping America “alive” without killing massive amounts of children in schools here and abroad and also destroying the Earth’s climate system is a tough nut to crack for sure.

E: Wait are you claiming that the only way to stop children from dying in schools is to overthrow the government thereby killing more children that rely on, erm, “government programs”? I’m confused about the part that you added afterwards.

Huh, I think using the phrase “death to america” might be a bit hyperbolic if it’s that mild of an outcome. I definitely wouldn’t call that the death of a state if all it means is adjusting some foreign policies.

For your last question, I would say the death of a state means a complete overhaul of their system (e.g. overthrowing the government and implementing a new economic/political system). But, hey, I guess we all have different meanings of what the death of a state means :shrug:

EVVVVV: it hasn’t even gone on for a full page yet. Unless you have a different definition for when a topic officially becomes a derail :smug:

Kalit fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Nov 18, 2023

TheDisreputableDog
Oct 13, 2005
Death to this pedantic derail.

BUUNNI
Jun 23, 2023

by Pragmatica

Kalit posted:

Huh, I think using the phrase “death to america” might be a bit hyperbolic if it’s that mild of an outcome. I definitely wouldn’t call that the death of a state if all it means is adjusting some foreign policies.

For your last question, I would say the death of a state means a complete overhaul of their system (e.g. overthrowing the government and implementing a new economic/political system). But, hey, I guess we all have different meanings of what the death of a state means :shrug:

I think since guns and the military are one of the defining features of the state so ending the manufacture and trade of them would probably transform America. But if you have some other metric or defining feature then ok.

Also I don’t think that gun violence, mass shootings and war are very sustainable so I imagine we’re pretty likely to end up getting the same outcome whether we transform America or not.

BUUNNI fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Nov 18, 2023

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009

Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa
Death to everyone in this thread! Natural and nontraumatic death, after a full and satisfying life, mind you.

Also maybe if you want to get rid of gun violence, you could call for death to gun violence or something like that? It would be a lot less ambiguous.

Tiny Timbs
Sep 6, 2008

Using the language of civilian mass murderers and terrorists is edgelord territory no matter how much you go “well akshully I’m only calling for the death of an idea.” You’ll look a lot less stupid if you don’t do it.

BUUNNI
Jun 23, 2023

by Pragmatica

Tiny Timbs posted:

Using the language of civilian mass murderers and terrorists is edgelord territory no matter how much you go “well akshully I’m only calling for the death of an idea.” You’ll look a lot less stupid if you don’t do it.

The civilian mass murderers and terrorists we’re talking about actually love America and would die to defend it.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

Tiny Timbs posted:

Using the language of civilian mass murderers and terrorists is edgelord territory no matter how much you go “well akshully I’m only calling for the death of an idea”

So is Semper Fi and other mottos from the armed forces off the menu as well? Wouldn't mind that tbh, but wanted to clarify.

Alongside that, but are people here identifying with the nation state so strongly that you think that death to it would mean death to you?

Vahakyla
May 3, 2013
The nation state does indeed provide some services and civil security around me.

It reeks of antivaxxers forgetting polio of how much a modern state protects citizens even with all its flaws.

BUUNNI
Jun 23, 2023

by Pragmatica

Josef bugman posted:

So is Semper Fi and other mottos from the armed forces off the menu as well? Wouldn't mind that tbh, but wanted to clarify.

Alongside that, but are people here identifying with the nation state so strongly that you think that death to it would mean death to you?

Good point, since the US is purportedly more than ok with mass killings at home and abroad does that qualify the statement "God Bless America" as a terrorist motto? Should we cringe when we hear politicians say that?

Nenonen posted:

Death to everyone in this thread! Natural and nontraumatic death, after a full and satisfying life, mind you.

Also maybe if you want to get rid of gun violence, you could call for death to gun violence or something like that? It would be a lot less ambiguous.

I don't think the kinds of mass killings Americans see so often can be separated from its perverse national ideology. For mass killings to end, so does the idea that the historical place the US and its people occupy were selected by god himself.

BUUNNI fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Nov 18, 2023

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

Vahakyla posted:

The nation state does indeed provide some services and civil security around me.

It reeks of antivaxxers forgetting polio of how much a modern state protects citizens even with all its flaws.

Yeah it does in some aspects but do you identify with the nation state or with the people in it? Ultimately I have more in common with the person on the street a couple of hundred miles away who speaks no English than I do with my head of state.

I probably have more in common with most folks in this thread but I don't think there is much I have in common with some systems of governance.

TheDisreputableDog
Oct 13, 2005

Tiny Timbs posted:

Using the language of civilian mass murderers and terrorists is edgelord territory no matter how much you go “well akshully I’m only calling for the death of an idea.” You’ll look a lot less stupid if you don’t do it.

It’s the day of the rope… for regressive full-sugar soda taxes.

BUUNNI
Jun 23, 2023

by Pragmatica

Vahakyla posted:

The nation state does indeed provide some services and civil security around me.

It reeks of antivaxxers forgetting polio of how much a modern state protects citizens even with all its flaws.

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Kalit
Nov 6, 2006

Josef bugman posted:


Alongside that, but are people here identifying with the nation state so strongly that you think that death to it would mean death to you?

Depends on what you mean by “death” of a nation state. If you define it as destroying the government, then a lot of civilians will die during the turmoil. Regardless of how much they identify with the nation state itself

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