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I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Pakistani Brad Pitt posted:

I'm really afraid for the anti-Trans backlash that will come from this

How could it be worse than it already is? I mean, it can easily be worse, but we were going there anyway because trans people are convenient targets. Before this, they were using drag shows as justification. I think the difference this makes in the long run will be marginal. Itís not like a single school shooting can be a Reichstag fire event in a country with hundreds of mass shooting a year. And our nazis are already in power and doing whatever they want right now.

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I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Theyíre not ambivalent about it. They like the mass shootings because they create opportunities to further their policy goals. Look for a big push toward armed private security in all public places. Even if that fails, every school shooting erodes confidence in the idea of public educationóeven though this happened at a private school.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Nashville PD just released video of the shooter, the school, their car, and how they broke into the school.

They also confirmed that the three children that died were all 9 years old and one of them was the head of the school's daughter.

Still no info about the manifesto or motive.

All three of the guns were legally purchased in Tennessee recently.

https://twitter.com/MNPDNashville/status/1640507254611795968
https://twitter.com/MNPDNashville/status/1640521034594918400
https://twitter.com/MNPDNashville/status/1640545519511404546

Anybody recognize the symbols drawn onto those guns? I remember that nazbol shooter a few years ago did something similar. The taped-on vinyl sticker and Kirby decal on the car say weíre dealing with a pathetic nerd. That x with the circle around it looks like christian identity poo poo, but I donít really know what Iím talking about there.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Itís true that conservatives often canít or pretend not to understand the difference between being charged and being convicted, or between being arrested and being sentenced to prison, and they do this when someone they donít like is charged or arrested as well.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Donít most school shooters already get the death penalty in that theyíre shot dead by police or kill themselves once they get bored? Arenít most mass shootings a variation on suicide where the shooter wants to die? I know shooters are sometimes taken alive and given Wendyís, but not that often. The script set by columbine ends with the shooterís suicide, after all. I donít know that itís been replaced by a new script yet.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Dull Fork posted:

So to me you're asking for the entire culture to change so that we don't talk about the most recent bloody headline. Thats just... not how humans work, and not how our news networks are structured to work (this is not a good thing though).

You recognize that its quite difficult to keep information hidden in the age of social media (in part due to the fact that there is no legislation, or will to enact legislation forcing Social Media companies to help keep Spree Killer's names censored), 24h news cycles perpetuate the focusing on Spree Killers, and that making a Spree-Killer's name verboten is less effective than gun control. Why argue for this less effective solution when there are others that don't have as many hurdles to overcome, and by your own admission are more effective? Is this just a case of 'we can walk and chew bubblegum at the same time, so we can work towards gun control, AND Spree Killer censoring'?

The real problem with how spree killing is discussed in US mass media is that the profit motive incentivizes sensationalistic, obsessive focus on the killer, the heinousness of the crime, and the idea that the viewer at home could be killed in a similar way. If the focus were on the lives of the victims and on how the community copes with and moves past tragedy rather than on turning the killer into an infamous figure prepackaged to be idolized by 4chan fuckfaces who try it for themselves a year later, it would be much less of an issue. TV knows what itís doing because their coverage has been refined to a science over the last 20 years. Itís extremely negligent and I have to imagine they all know, but the whole point of everything is to make money.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

The laws arenít designed to be applied consistently. Theyíre meant to identify certain people as inherently different and deserving of special regulation. It doesnít even matter if the laws are struck down or so unenforceable that theyíre never used successfully, as their purpose is to raise the temperature on undesirables and get people used to the idea that there are undesirables and they are unnatural and need to be regulated for the good of societyóto make them a problem in need of a solution.

You canít overstate the dishonesty of what conservatives say in public, but these laws are also dangerous because there are people who fall for the rhetoric they use. There are plenty of grandpas out there who would never have thought about trans people at all, or who would have defaulted to the good old American individualism of ďpeople can live how they wantĒ (probably as long as they never met any) who are now foaming at the mouth about trans groomers because of what their media diet serves up to them.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

In fact, from a certain point of view, itís useful to reactionary elements to produce obviously absurd laws, because it causes people to think of laws and legal systems as nonsensical, which makes it easier to get rid of laws that already exist.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

FlamingLiberal posted:

I'm so glad this person caved so that they can pass extremely important laws like this one

https://twitter.com/Davis_Hammet/status/1643696444719628289?s=20

So how is this supposed to work? Coach fingers everyoneís puss before the big game?

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Carew posted:

I imagine you report the kid of someone you don't like or the kid you don't like for being trans and then the football coach gets to thoroughly inspect their genitals because you can't trust the woke activist nurse/doctor.

I realized immediately after posting that it has to be something that can be applied unequally, as a form of humiliation for troublemakers or kids who are different.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

I donít think itís a surprise that democrats have limited and carefully triangulated concern for the rights of others. Have we forgotten the story of gay marriage already? Or donít ask/donít tell? Their purpose has been maintenance of a status quo that many of them genuinely believe is the best possible outcome for the United States.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Vahakyla posted:

DADT was an improvement.

A compromise with what, exactly? And for what purpose?

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

BiggerBoat posted:

Again, you're listening to the wrong news. I have it on good authority that Biden is a far left radical socialist implementing a woke agenda in his quest to destroy America and that "we won't even have a country left" if he wins the next election. Seems I've heard this rhetoric somewhere before (Kerry, Obama, Hillary). Every candidate is the most radical left wing socialist who ever socialismed, no matter how centrist or milquetoast their voting record is or their policies are.

If the Democrats ran Joe Manchin or Sinema, we'd hear about how they "voted with Obama/Biden 98% of the time" as proof of how far left they are. I don't know if the right wing thinks that people like me simply adore Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton or if it's just a cheap way to frame the narrative but every time I get accused of being a left wing radical for voting Democrat I almost have to laugh. I vote for democrats because the alternative are literally fascists.

Reminds me of that joke about the old jewish man who reads der sturmer every day.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Itís not very different from their 20-year-old ďcounterterrorismĒ strategy of finding a loner freak with a low iq and psyching him up into attempting mass murder so that they can arrest him, last seen with those q morons who tried to kill the governor of Michigan.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

HD DAD posted:

Honestly I canít tell anymore if all this poo poo is the natural conclusion of 50 years of GOP claws closing in on the US, or the final, diarrhea-laden tantrum of a literally dying minority.

I used to exclusively think the former, but the sloppy chaos lately has me hoping the latter.

Itís both. They summoned a monster and nobody really knows what itís going to do next.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

haveblue posted:

They directly impacted too many complacent voters and it turns out their ideas are a lot less popular than they thought

I donít think they ever thought their ideas were popular. But they did think that they had seized enough institutions to maintain control. But their base of lead-brained seniors and weird kids raised to believe the lies were true got out from under them and now weíre having a very interesting time.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Quixzlizx posted:

I'm not even trying to assume the inherent goodness in people, I meant that a grown man who focuses on bullying children comes off as weak and pathetic to anyone who isn't completely submerged in the cool zone.

About 30-35% of the US population gets a thrill out of seeing the strong torment the weak.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Gumball Gumption posted:

The flip side of that is he mostly lost due to being president during a once in a lifetime event. No pandemic and the election is wildly different. Either way the point is he mostly failed because of himself and circumstances, not strong opposition, and without strong opposition which can keep fascists out of power they're going to keep getting chances to seize it.

You could make the argument that it only became a world-historic event because trump did so badly at containing it. There have been novel respiratory viruses emerging from China for like 20 years at this point. None of the other ones caught on like this.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Failed Imagineer posted:

You could make that argument, if you ignored everything about how it spread like wildfire through Europe first. Trumps response, or lack thereof, definitely made everything much worse globally though

Didnít the US play a role in containing SARS, bird flu, swine flu in collaboration with the WHO? I guess I donít actually know.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Fister Roboto posted:

Furries. We're already seeing that freakout, although for now it's more just a branchoff from the general anti-LGBT hysteria.

Also don't be fooled into thinking that we can't go backwards on this.

Climate refugees, domestic and asylum-seeking.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Mellow Seas posted:

Nah Nazis and fascists were the actual threat the Greatest faced as young people, and beat the poo poo out of to earn their name. Then they came home and had babies and spent 20 years scared of their kids either becoming communists or being nuked by communists while treating their PTSD with alcoholism.

Satanic Panic started in the 80s, so figure the concerned parents tended to be 30-50 years old (usually parents start freaking out about these things when their kids are a bit older and they feel like they're losing control over them, so somewhere around 6-16 depending on the family.) That means they would've been mostly born between the early 30s and mid-50s, so boomers definitely got in on that action, yeah.

But I do think the late 90s gay acceptance backlash was the main event for boomer parents, peaking in the 2000 election (top exit poll issue was "moral values") and 2004 election, when boomers were in their 40s and 50s and their kids were teenagers or entering young adulthood.

White Gen Xers were also the first generation to not grow up being explicitly told that they were inherently better than darker skinned people, but they were still implicitly told that, and I think some of them grew very resentful of that eventually.

It's never really gone away (largely because there's so much truth to it) but the 90s were kind of the peak of the "black people are cooler than white people" cultural meme, and I think a lot of Gen X took that poo poo the wrong way.



Obviously generational classification is a bunch of hooey but it's fun to play with the numbers.

Oooh, good prediction! I wonder if millennial parents are going on about "rainbow parties" yet.

This phenomenon seems pretty tied to the pax americana and the general sense that politics was a settled question so that cultural variation was the only thing left to think about. The last 20 years have already been far more interesting than that.

The culture war about lgbtq things is driven largely by media discourse. Itís the brain-poisoned idle who consume twitter/cable news all day taking school boards hostage and shooting up the supermarket. Well, them and the people courting their vote. I donít see it growing beyond that to consume everyoneís attention in the same way as anticommunism or segregation, but maybe mass culture was always exactly that.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

They guy seems real good.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Charlz Guybon posted:

You would think they would get tired of losing eventually

https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1645258292879302668

This is a strange poll question. Arenít people supposed to vote for the candidate with the policies they like the best?

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006


Is that really how news anchors are dressing these days?

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Whoís politically inactive at this point? The abortion bans are here. A crazy-rear end judge just attempted a national one last week.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Does castle doctrine allow you to shoot someone through your door? The castle is everything from the driveway to the street?

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Nenonen posted:

Uh... so about the Trump Tent Rehab Cities.

Putting aside what dystopian nightmare he is offering America, isn't this a little too close to Obama's FEMA camps that his supporters are so afraid of?

Of course not! Trump is talking about doing it to them.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

So was Mitch McConnell ambulatory and able to speak today?

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

BRJurgis posted:

Forcing people to be naked together in a mandatory setting seems pretty problematic. But the USA's prudish-ness leads to a "nudity is inherently sexual" attitude which I think is hosed up too. With our culture and institutions being what they are though, geez...

The hosed-up part is taking away peopleís bodily autonomy and exposing them to brutalization at the hands of their peers, the same as everything bad about high school. And thatís the part conservatives like about it. Itís the same reason they donít like sex education: telling kids they control their own bodies and giving them understanding of sex abuse and other things that take away their control of themselves, which undermines the entire conservative worldview.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Itís like that one high school wrestler who was forced to compete against girls after transitioning from policies requiring students to compete as the sex listed on their birth certificate, creating the exact situation they all claim to fear where a man has an advantage against female competitors from higher muscle mass etc. But every time he was brought up, they assumed he was instead amab and claiming to be a trans woman and then started ranting about how that was bad.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Young Freud posted:

Republicans can't kill the Dad in their own heads without invalidating their own existence as Big Daddy.

Post/username combo

I remember reading some books by the linguist George Lakoff about metaphor as used in American politics around the time of the 2008 election, and the part that sticks with me is the strong conservative focus on obedience to legitimate (fatherly) authority and the internalization of harsh rules as the means to survive. Part of why they hate assistance to the weak is that they believe the only way to survive is to obey rules that order the universe, so assistance to others wonít work and prevents the weak from learning the rules. The big assumption is that the universe is harsh but fair in how these rules work, so anyone who succeeds followed the rules and anyone who failed did a bad job following the rules. The universe and a disciplinarian father are identical to them.

Trump is kind of interesting from that point of view because he behaves like a harsh father but clearly doesnít believe in anything except himself, so itís like heís cheating when he goes up against some ideologue moron.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Glenn Beck did a few weeks of antivax stuff back when the ACA was about to be passed, then backed off.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

zoux posted:

Pretrial detention motion from the feds in the case of the Groyper Leaker and oops, looks like the right wing dipshits who tried to valorize him as a noble whistleblower might've been out over their skis a bit

https://twitter.com/AricToler/status/1651407473520136192

I think those are all reasons the right wing will love him more.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

VorpalBunny posted:

I read an interesting article, and it highlights the disconnect between hard-right GOP politicians and their constituents.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/28/us/montana-governor-son-transgender-bills/index.html

The language used here is so odd, respectful yet sad. It reminds me of the Cheney family, and I hope the children of these politicians keep standing up and pushing back on these policies. Usually Republicans are monsters on issues until it directly affects them, but perhaps LGBTQ+ issues are a bridge too far.

ďSon, weíre inherently superior to those we rule. The laws we pass will never affect us. And if they do, Iím letting you get dragged to the camps.Ē

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

There were organized groups there like proud boys who would have been happy to kill people if the opportunity presented itself.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Fell Fire posted:

Churchill would like a word with you.

Less tritely, what you are claiming is seriously disproven by the actual history. Frequently, capitalists aligned with communists (or at least some kind of further left liberal democracy) whenever they felt a larger threat from fascism.

There are a lot of stories from the Manhattan Project, Hollywood, and elsewhere of left-leaning intellectuals working within a capitalist system and only suffering for it much later, when fascism was defeated as a global threat and, rhetorically at least, replaced by communism.

You might investigate the US relationship with Francoist Spain or the Estado Novo regime in Portugal, or the history of US intervention in democracies in South America during the second half of the twentieth century. Capitalists are definitely very friendly with fascists when doing so protects profits. Youíll only see them fighting fascists when the fascists threaten production.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Fell Fire posted:

It wasn't clear, you stated as an absolute that capital sides with fascism, now you're moving that statement to a different standard.

Fascism also arises in part from socialist and nationalist elements. This happened in both Italy and Germany, it's just that the more reactionary parts of the party won out.

Your claim that capitalism always sides with fascism is not only untrue, but it paints an incomplete picture. There are examples of left leaning capitalist forces choosing to expand government services. There are other factors in play.

I'm not sure what your last paragraph is supposed to mean? That's literally my point, that instead of allying with fascism, capitalism instead decided to partner with communism to defeat it.

I'm pretty well aware of some of those things, in particular the history of U.S. intervention. I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me? Because your sentence about how capitalists will fight fascism agrees with what I said, but the rest sounds like you disagree.

Itís very rare for fascism to be less desirable to capitalists than communism because fascists will leave capitalism in place while communists wonít. Communism represents an existential threat to the bourgeoisie.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

The Washington Post reports that the next step in the culture war is shutting down high school theater for being too gay.

Even as Republicans underperformed in 2022 nationally, conservative activists were incredibly successful at electing entirely new school boards all across the country. These new boards have taken up various "anti-woke" and anti-LGBT policies during their tenure. Now, a national group that helped elect many of them is organizing a program to shut down high school theater for encouraging homosexuality and transgenderism.

They have also set out to find "pro-CRT" school plays and shut them down as well. They argue that these plays cause divisions among the students and may offend local parents.

15 states have implemented policies to prevent high school theater from putting on performances where characters crossdress.

Itís awesome how these freaks are going all-in on antagonizing their own children. Thereís no way that having formative memories of being forced to give up a beloved activity or having a trans friend commit suicide could possibly lead a person to lifelong hatred of conservatives. I have no idea what the end of all this will be other than people dying in the short term, but I donít see how these tendencies can last given how theyíre bullying all children in the US for no reason.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Saki Sanobashi or whoever the inventor supposedly was has never touched his bitcoin wallet.

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I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Is this Thomas stuff going anywhere? People knew he was an absolute monster in the 80s and he was still confirmed.

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